New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[Kataryn]

On the contrary, for Henrik and Athena in particular, it is probably better to lose the title now while they are still too young to understand whether a title matters or not than wait until they are adults.

Just imagine yourself at that age in school. Then think of a posh school in Paris. Where the caretakers and teachers don't take much notice of Royal titles and even less of Royal styles. From the end of the Christmas holiday the girl who was known as "Athena Denmark" (as the SHSG have no family name) is now Athena Monpezat (which is not really a title in the French nobility and not in the Danish either apart from the very recent past). Yes, it doesn't seem to be much but in that microclimate??? I wouldn't wonder if the girl wants to change schools after that public disgrace on full view of the international media!!! "Your grandmother surely loves you..." "I think so, too, the former princess says sarcastically. "She just destroyed my public image and so, my life in Paris."

.

 

[ACO]

https://ekstrabladet.dk/underholdni...ften-er-iskold-saadan-fik-de-beskeden/9447963

"Countess Alexandra’s private secretary also says that it’s the Lord Chamberlain who informed Prince Joachim of the decision and that Nikolai & Felix have not been in contact with their grandmother since the announcement."

They all really need to communicate before this turns into full out resentment.

I agree with the idea of a slimmed down monarchy. It makes complete sense but the way this has been done just seemed wrong. What was the reason? Clearly there is more to the story because if not then... oy.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think this is a good decision in the long term. IMHO the government of a country tends to want what was has been the king's privilege in the on-going move of the political power from the souvereign to the people the country's citizens have voted in.

Stripping titles off Royal offspring and allowing them to lead "normal careers" sounds good as an idea. But when the monarch does that to certain members of the family, who's to say that it should be stopped there? Why only Joachim's children? Because they are "just" the children of the "spare"? Then why keep the titles for the CP's children? These three yonger children will end up "unneeded" as well. Do they have to look forward to loose their titles (and thus part of the identity they grew up with) as well? And why not take the firstborn child of a direct-line heir out of the (now considered throughly unroyal) family and let the (untitled) wife of a direct heir raise the other kids while the heir's heir's heir is raised apart as a future monarch? There is only a tiny step from there to abolish the monarchy because who needs Royals that can be stripped off their tiltes at the monarch's whim in a political system that's based on the people's basic rights and laws protecting that?

I'm not even sure the queen can do so under European law....

I don't think you need to worry that much. All other royal families who did this decades ago are still fine.

If I was Joachim or one of his wifes, I would be fuming having an aunt like Benedikte, still running around as a princess of Denmark doing some public duties even though she is "only" a widowed German "princess" (name, not title) after all or another aunt who is treated as Her Majesty though she lived in exile for decades now while my children, a queen's grandchildren, were stripped of their titles being teenagers or young adults only and used to be who they are, since birth. I already can imagine what this will mean for the former princess-daughter of Joachim in her (probably posh) school in Paris! Poor girl. As she is not even a grevine in her own right but then just a Komtesse...

You seem to miss that his aunts positions are comparable to his own. They are children of a monarch not grandchildren like his children. In addition, the married a foreign king or prince which regulates their children's titles. Had they married a commoner like he did twice, their children would have been untitled.

And the next step will be that the government decides on who's important in the family and who is not. And then... why is the monarch important?

That, IMHO is the fastest way to a democracy with no king or queen, but a voted in president (m/f). When even a monarch has no more respect for the Blood Royal of their family, who should have it? Why bow, courtsey or just show any form of reference to the head of a family that is not considerd "worthy" of the titles they were born with anymore? Even though they've done nothing? Where will end where this has been started? It's very good that there has never been a a need for gender discussions in Denmark after Margrethe's ascent to the throne and there wasn't any reason to talk race about the first sons of Prince Joachim yet. But when these things happen IMHO it's the first step towards abolishing the monarchy. Or the second step if you think about the Counts of Rosenberg and their father, the Arveprince.

The statement clearly stated that no changes are made in the line of succession, so, I don't see any reason how this decision would impact any of that. Note that these children were never royal highnesses and would most likely have lost their titles upon marriage most likely as the monarch could easily just not grant permission as a way of keeping the house organized, just like her father did before her. In that case, it might have been construed as a problem with the bride or groom while it would have been for a different reason.

It was okay with the Norwegian Royals, seeing as there was Marius already as a not-Royal family member before a Royal child was born, the the heir, Ingrid Alexandra and then Sverre, the spare. Who is a HH Prince of Norway still, isn't he, though he is only the grandson of the king?

He

Magnus might currently be the grandson of the king, he is also the son of the heir, so not comparable to Joachim's children at all. Personally, I don't like the distinction between siblings but apparently that's what they thought best after the issues with Märtha Louise.

And I can understand the wish of minor Royals not to be known as a part of the Royal House when they try to lead normal lifes (as if "normal lifes" are something you have to have when you were born into the upper echelons of society - it's more about what you can do in your life without the media coming after you...). But such a young girl and young boy as Joachim's younger children? Living in Paris, the capital of humility? The place where poor and rich are equal??? LOL! I bet when the former princess is having her first boyfriend this is exactly how she is presented in Ekstra or Billed Bladet: as "former princess of Denmark, now Komtesse...).
(And, coming back to the original topic: why are these kids of Joachim anything but normal Danish citizens? Why be a "Count" if a normal life is envisioned for them? Shouldn't they be just really normal citizens, maybe taking on normal names like Nicolai Joachimsson? Athena Mariedottir or even Cavallier?

If the family members of the monarch are citizens like you and me, that's fine. But why have a monarch after all? What makes this person so "good" that we accept them as heirs and later as the chef when they have only what they deny their family - the Blood Royal??

You seem to jump from one extreme to the other. Just like the generations before them (and consistent with for example the Dutch approach), they will use the title they have been given to honour their grandfather's heritage, which is greve/komtesse de Monpezat.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Just imagine yourself at that age in school. Then think of a posh school in Paris. Where the caretakers and teachers don't take much notice of Royal titles and even less of Royal styles. From the end of the Christmas holiday the girl who was known as "Athena Denmark" (as the SHSG have no family name) is now Athena Monpezat (which is not really a title in the French nobility and not in the Danish either apart from the very recent past). Yes, it doesn't seem to be much but in that microclimate??? I wouldn't wonder if the girl wants to change schools after that public disgrace on full view of the international media!!! "Your grandmother surely loves you..." "I think so, too, the former princess says sarcastically. "She just destroyed my public image and so, my life in Paris."

.

I don’t think it will turn out the way you think because children of this generation don’t care much for titles. Plus I highly doubt any of the students she will meet will care about that.

 

[Kataryn]

I do think this was all necessary and probably should have happened long ago.

Prince Joachim needs to be an adult, he has known about this scince May and should have discussed this with his children. I title is just that, it doesn't make you a better person or more happy. You need to carve your own life and his children will be great people without being a prince or princess. That is what he should have told them. The comments he and his ex wife have made just make him sound petty and immature.

You are a grown-up in Australia and I hope the media will never take such an intense notice of you as they do of the kids of Joachim. But living in Paris loosing such a prestigious title when they are still so young is bad. Really bad. Poor kiddos.



Yes, viewed from the POV of a ruling monarch it was probably the right thing to do. But from the children??? It surely wasn't and I just think there should have been more thought about them. Especially as they are to meet their grandmother again. And who will explain the whole happenings when their own father is very much hurt, when their cousins are the "winners" and their mother might think it was because they are not noble from both sides? (I have no idea how Marie is thinking about this at all!!!) Joachim served his country as much as he could.And now his children are second-class citizens to his brother's. (And don't tell me he will think of all the Danes who are even less! He wasn't raised that way).

 

[Mirabel]

It may seem harsh, but the line must be drawn somewhere, sometime.

I think the reality is that the public dislikes having a lot of royal hangers-on; doesn't matter whether they get money from the taxpayers, or if they don't.

The Queen probably made the move solely for PR purposes.

 

[Toledo]

...What harm will it cause for the siblings to remain prince and princess for three more months? Indeed, it may be useful to have this period of time to update their ID cards and so on.

I don't mean to laugh but that last line almost made me spit out my morning coffee

 

[Prinsara]

It may seem harsh, but the line must be drawn somewhere, sometime.

I think the reality is that the public dislikes having a lot of royal hangers-on; doesn't matter whether they get money from the taxpayers, or if they don't.

The Queen probably made the move solely for PR purposes.

The Danish monarchy and the Queen are as popular as anyone could possibly imagine. There was no pressing demand for this, and she possibly just negatively affected her PR — which is quite the difficult job.

 

[tihkon2]

It may seem harsh, but the line must be drawn somewhere, sometime.

I think the reality is that the public dislikes having a lot of royal hangers-on; doesn't matter whether they get money from the taxpayers, or if they don't.

The Queen probably made the move solely for PR purposes.

Then she screwed it up dreadfully. Because either on her own initiative or by some sort of inexcusable error, this decision was released in the most stupid and inconsiderate way possible.

 

[Kataryn]

I don’t think it will turn out the way you think because children of this generation don’t care much for titles. Plus I highly doubt any of the students she will meet will care about that.

Yep, I would agree with you here. But not as a 10 yo in Paris. There, "precedence" is still something you know in posh circles. Even if you just "live" in the 17.arrondissement and go to a school there, there are schools and schools. I doubt Athena is going to a state school, rather an international school with lots of other girls from rich, noble or father's business or adminstrative background. It's a question of security after all. Can't have a "princess of Denmark" kidnapped from a local school. And while all those girls meet there, there must form some sort of nomenclatura. Yes, not necessarily about titles. But this will be an upheaval in her life so far. We have to see how Marie and Joachim will react to that.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

https://ekstrabladet.dk/underholdni...ften-er-iskold-saadan-fik-de-beskeden/9447963

"Countess Alexandra’s private secretary also says that it’s the Lord Chamberlain who informed Prince Joachim of the decision and that Nikolai & Felix have not been in contact with their grandmother since the announcement."

They all really need to communicate before this turns into full out resentment.

I agree with the idea of a slimmed down monarchy. It makes complete sense but the way this has been done just seemed wrong. What was the reason? Clearly there is more to the story because if not then... oy.

I agree…. This was all due to happen anyway so why now when they are all old enough to be fully aware of who they are and to what they belong ? Why not start with their children or at least wait until their marriage ?… They have not been H.R.H since 2008 and would never recive apanage anyway…. No one expects these children to ever inagurate hospitals, inspect troops and cut ribbons on behalf of the monarch unless it is an extreme emergency…

And that the communication even in basic matters such as childrens titles does not happen ear to ear between QMII and Joachim but through a Lord Chamberlain is quite telling about their own relation…Its nowhere near as good as between QMII and Frederik

 

[Toledo]

Then she screwed it up dreadfully. Because either on her own initiative or by some sort of inexcusable error, this decision was released in the most stupid and inconsiderate way possible.

I think there has to be more to this than what is informed to the press and public. My take is seen this from afar to make sense of it. The only connection I can think of is if QMII is aware of the situation her cousin King Charles III is going through in the UK, let's call it the Montecito Dilemma, and she decided to act on it now and not give future King Frederick a PR problem from day one.

Also consider if Joachin's male kids marry, won't their wives be called Princesses and also their male children too? It would be an overflow of princely titles where the media won't distinguish from working royals to off the budget relatives.

 

[Michiru-Kaiou]

In a usual situation the sons of a simple Mr de Laborde de Monpezat would bear their father's surname de Laborde de Monpezat. The addition of the father's surname to the offspring of a female monarch is actually pretty usual, see the examples:

However, with gender equality this "usual" is changing, and thank goodness so. That's why Estelle will continue the Bernadotte dynasty, not her male-line cousin. I know some people have a hard time to come to terms with that change, but it's overdue.

No, that has nothing to do with it, I’m afraid!

For the point I was trying to make "of/to" doesn't matter.

And I believe Michiru-Kaiou's point was that this title has served as the princes' and princess's name/identity. It is not comparable to hypothetically stripping it from the Greeks, who never use it.

Exactly, names create a family unit. Which is also why it can be hard for divorce children to no longer carry the same name as their mother if the mother remarries. And, lets face it, neither Prince Joachim nor Princess Marie will use "Monpezat" in the future, they will still be "Denmark" everywhere.

It doesn’t mean the children are less loved in any way.

That's the point I was trying to make. Henrik and Athena are of an age where they might even take it personally, a lot like divorce children feel like THEY did something wrong.

Also, children can be cruel and I sincerely hope that this "name" change won't lead to bullying at school for the two younger ones, which might even lead to a blow to their self-confidence.

Really, it would have been much better if they'd just not been able to pass the title down instead of stripping. And if stripping was at all neccessary, then Queen Margrethe should really have sat down with the kids herself and explained that this was a neccessary step for modernization and she was really sorry she has to do this and that this was 100% and most definitely not their personal fault. And if she'd had to make a trip to France for that, but I feel like she at least owed those children as much. Certainly not just dump it on them just like that.

best wishes Michiru

 

[tihkon2]

I think there has to be more to this than what is informed to the press and public. My take is seen this from afar to make sense of it. The only connection I can think of is if QMII is aware of the situation her cousin King Charles III is going through in the UK, let's call it the Montecito Dilemma, and she decided to act on it now and not give future King Frederick a PR problem from day one.

Also consider if Joachin's male kids marry, won't their wives be called Princesses and also their male children too? It would be an overflow of princely titles where the media won't distinguish from working royals to off the budget relatives.

I understand all that. I do NOT understand the callous way in which the news was dumped. Did you read Joachim's reaction? He says the last he agreed to was that they would lose their titles at 25. That was back in May. Then 5 days ago he was informed this was going to be done. And he asked for time to speak with his family, children about it. And then yesterday happened. And he was informed by the Lord Chamberlain. Not even by his mother. I would say this was a big screw up in the way it was handled. Possibly to the detriment of her relations with her son and her grandchildren.

 

[Kataryn]

Just wanted to add that I have helped chilren from adoption to get back a feeling of where they came from without disrupting both their adopted and birth families, so I have heard a lot of what "names" mean to identity building, especially with under-age children. I just pity Henrik and Athena and their parents who have to try to pick them up after this. I have no idea what has happened in Denmark behind closed doors, but I just feel there could have been better way to deal with it and the way it went it showed a lot missing in the emotional level on the queen's side. 5 Days!!! Poor Joachim and family. (and I believe him after I saw the video. It must be so tough to be a close blood relation to a monarch!)

 

[ACO]

I think there has to be more to this than what is informed to the press and public. My take is seen this from afar to make sense of it. The only connection I can think of is if QMII is aware of the situation her cousin King Charles III is going through in the UK, let's call it the Montecito Dilemma, and she decided to act on it now and not give future King Frederick a PR problem from day one.

Also consider if Joachin's male kids marry, won't their wives be called Princesses and also their male children too? It would be an overflow of princely titles where the media won't distinguish from working royals to off the budget relatives.

I don't see how this actually helped her though. Seems to me it has caused more drama than needed. If I were King Charles I would actually be looking at this and taking a moment to see what NOT to do in going about stripping titles.

In the past few years who have seen two families slim down publicly. I think King Carl Gustaf, so far has did it the best way. Publicly his family were all on board and it looked like a smooth thing. Whatever they felt behind the scenes did not matter.

 

[Somebody]

I don't mean to laugh but that last line almost made me spit out my morning coffee

just to clarify... It wasnt me who wrote this (about updating IDs)

I agree…. This was all due to happen anyway so why now when they are all old enough to be fully aware of who they are and to what they belong ? Why not start with their children or at least wait until their marriage ?… They have not been H.R.H since 2008 and would never recive apanage anyway…. No one expects these children to ever inagurate hospitals, inspect troops and cut ribbons on behalf of the monarch unless it is an extreme emergency…

And that the communication even in basic matters such as childrens titles does not happen ear to ear between QMII and Joachim but through a Lord Chamberlain is quite telling about their own relation…Its nowhere near as good as between QMII and Frederik

They were ne er royal highnesses. In 2008 they gained the additional title of greve/komtesse de Monpezat but no changes were made at that time in them being styled highness with the tirle prince of Denmark.

However, with gender equality this "usual" is changing, and thank goodness so. That's why Estelle will continue the Bernadotte dynasty, not her male-line cousin. I know some people have a hard time to come to terms with that change, but it's overdue.

For the point I was trying to make "of/to" doesn't matter.

Exactly, names create a family unit. Which is also why it can be hard for divorce children to no longer carry the same name as their mother if the mother remarries. And, lets face it, neither Prince Joachim nor Princess Marie will use "Monpezat" in the future, they will still be "Denmark" everywhere.

That's the point I was trying to make. Henrik and Athena are of an age where they might even take it personally, a lot like divorce children feel like THEY did something wrong.

Also, children can be cruel and I sincerely hope that this "name" change won't lead to bullying at school for the two younger ones, which might even lead to a blow to their self-confidence.

Really, it would have been much better if they'd just not been able to pass the title down instead of stripping. And if stripping was at all neccessary, then Queen Margrethe should really have sat down with the kids herself and explained that this was a neccessary step for modernization and she was really sorry she has to do this and that this was 100% and most definitely not their personal fault. And if she'd had to make a trip to France for that, but I feel like she at least owed those children as much. Certainly not just dump it on them just like that.

best wishes Michiru

I fully agree that the main problem was in communication - both between the family. I previously also stated that Margrethe should have discussed this with her grandchildren herself instead of leaving it to a disgruntled Joachim. And in addition, the public communication should have been coordinated much better - but that seems to be a general issue at the Danish court.

 

[W.Y.CII]

I think it's a wise decision and it's predictable, but I am surprised that DRF handle it that poorly. Take away from/stop giving title to the spare/children of spare isn't a new thing, the Swedish and other RF provide couples of positive example they can follow, I mean not only what to do but also how to handle it. I would never know do CP and Madeleine really love the plan for their kids but at least they looked like they're well-informed and made an effort to stop the unnecessary drama (the statements were so well-prepared). While in Denmark it seems Joachim knew the initial plan from QMII, but no one told him the final plan. They feel hurt probably because no one bothers to let them know beforehand rather than of losing the title itself. I didn't follow it very closely and I may miss something, but I'm wondering did Frederik knew it as well, I mean did he knew that QMII's going to announce it today. It supposedly shall make things easier for Frederik but now it's going to opposite direction.

 

[Michiru-Kaiou]

Just wanted to add that I have helped chilren from adoption to get back a feeling of where they came from without disrupting both their adopted and birth families, so I have heard a lot of what "names" mean to identity building, especially with under-age children. I just pity Henrik and Athena and their parents who have to try to pick them up after this. I have no idea what has happened in Denmark behind closed doors, but I just feel there could have been better way to deal with it and the way it went it showed a lot missing in the emotional level on the queen's side. 5 Days!!! Poor Joachim and family. (and I believe him after I saw the video. It must be so tough to be a close blood relation to a monarch!)

That was exactly what I was talking about. I grew up in a similar situation, my mother didn't want kids, so I grew up with my maternal grandparents and, as a kid, it meant the world to me, that my "Mama" (my maternal grandmother) and I have the same surname.

I can imagine, that this is a further blow for Princes Nikolai and Felix, they had to stomach their parents divorce, they had to stomach that they no longer carry the same "name" as their mother and now this. A psychological disaster.

Names forge family unity. Identity, the feeling of belonging somewhere, being part of something.

I have to say, I think if I were Prince Joachim I'd tell my mother to stick HIS "Prince" and "Denmark" thing where the sun don't shine and, together with Princess Marie, go about their lives as Count Joachim, Countess Marie de Monpezat and children Count Henrik and Countess Athena.

best wishes Michiru

 

[Moonmaiden23]

This news makes me uneasy, confused and a little sad.

I like the Swedish example better, where only the "Royal Highness" is removed but grandchildren of the Sovereign who were born Prince and Princess will remain so(but will not pass on Princely titles to their offspring).

This move by HMQ Margrethe feels draconian and punitive, not least because these are her male line grandchildren.

I agree that there must be something going on in the family that the public is unaware of.

 

[Denville]

I am trying to think of ways in which Joachim (and Alexandra) could have communicated. They clearly don't agree with the decision, so stating they do would be lying. Maybe something along the lines of:

"It will be quite a change for the children as being princes of Denmark has been an important part of their identities. However, going forward they will remain proud to be Danish and concious of their responsibilities as members of the royal family while using the title of greve/komtesse of Monpezat, a title linked to their beloved farfar (grandfather)."

or how about the good old fashioned no comment.

 

[Sidacarri]

As I said Prince Joachim new this was going to happen at some point, at least he new if was a consideration. It was his job as a father to prepare his children and explain it as best he could. He is ranting and crying which is just confusing them. I do feel for the children especially Athena, it's a little girls dream to be a princess.

 

[Erin9]

Prince Joachim says today that he was made aware in May that his childrens titles would be taken away from them when each of them reached the age of 25…. Athena turns 11 in january…

He also says that he was given information 5 days ago that the decision had already been taken and was given 5 days to inform his children…. He requested extra time to talk this through with his family and then come with a response, and says that was approved (but apprently not)

He says that he is very sad and upset and that the children is very sad and upset and don’t really know what they should belive and ”wich leg they should be standing on”…. He says that the children was not involved in this decision and that it is painful for him to see them so sad and upset…. He says that it makes his children harm and that he don’t understand why the should be so punished

He is asked by the journalist wether this impacts his relation to his mother Queen Margrethe to wich he replies ”i don’t think i need to explain that here”

https://ekstrabladet.dk/underholdni...-joachim-mine-boern-er-gjort-fortraed/9447865

I certainly understand his silence yesterday.

Assuming this is accurate- this has been hideously handled.

And I really don’t see that it was necessary.

 

[tihkon2]

As I said Prince Joachim new this was going to happen at some point, at least he new if was a consideration. It was his job as a father to prepare his children and explain it as best he could. He is ranting and crying which is just confusing them. I do feel for the children especially Athena, it's a little girls dream to be a princess.

Haven't seen him rant or cry. Simply calmly, but with visible emotion, explain he was not kept in the loop. And then when it did happen, he was notified by the Lord Chamberlain and not his mother. Margrethe or her advisers come out badly here. Not so much him.

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

When the Queen dies in the next few years, there is no need for Joachims line, I think everyone can agree on that. I also think the idea of stripping of the titles when they hit individually 25 years was a bad idea and the one move we saw now was better.

BUT they handled it in the most sloppy way ever
Communication in this family is in the last years a catastrophe on all fronts.

 

[Erin9]

Eh, Sounds like his mother could learn a thing or 2 about tact and diplomacy and compassion. Whatever the driving force behind this, her grandchildren were just treated like crap. In public.

That’s my take away.

I rather think the response from Joachim was earned.

It doesn’t mean the children are less loved in any way.

It would appear that wasn’t their take away.

 

[Prinsara]

That’s my take away.

I rather think the response from Joachim was earned.

Not only that. Her grandchildren, who love and respect her and have done nothing wrong.

Their parents, who have done nothing wrong.

Nobody has earned this type of treatment and all of them deserved a lot more respect than they've so far been given.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Minister of Court View Post
A grown man crying about his children becoming counts instead of princes! Joachim clearly doesn’t realize how ridiculous that sounds to the people at large.
Exactly! Sounds like Joachim is suffering from S3 --- second-son-syndrome!

Exactly! Sounds like Joachim is suffering from S3 --- second-son-syndrome!

Agree 100% - my first thought was: 'Recollections may vary'

 

[tihkon2]

Originally Posted by Minister of Court View Post
A grown man crying about his children becoming counts instead of princes! Joachim clearly doesn’t realize how ridiculous that sounds to the people at large.
Exactly! Sounds like Joachim is suffering from S3 --- second-son-syndrome!


Agree 100% - my first thought was: 'Recollections may vary'

He and Alexandra are "crying" about how stupidly and callously it was done.

And they're right.

 

[Erin9]

https://ekstrabladet.dk/underholdni...-joachim-mine-boern-er-gjort-fortraed/9447865

"When asked how she felt knowing her grandchildren felt ostracized, Queen Margrethe struggled to find words to convey the current family dynamic finally saying, “Well, we'll have to see how…you can…But I haven't seen it myself” before rushing inside."


This whole thing is just so unnecessarily messy. The Swedish family gave them the blueprint. It was so easy and now they in this pickle.

THIS. They had the Swedish model.

It really sounds like there was an unacceptable imo breakdown in communications, which is making this even worse.

And that it appears this is only applicable to Joachim is just a bad look imo. If TQ did it to him- imo- it should have been explicit that it’s intended for all spares going forward too. If Frederick needs to make a change later- he can then do so. It happens.

It may seem harsh, but the line must be drawn somewhere, sometime.

I think the reality is that the public dislikes having a lot of royal hangers-on; doesn't matter whether they get money from the taxpayers, or if they don't.

The Queen probably made the move solely for PR purposes.

PR doesn’t look too good to me right now.

Unless it’s somehow a good look that her son and his children are obviously hurt and surprised - and the prevailing sentiment is just to get over this poorly handled very public decision.