New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[Stefan]

Queen Margrethe II. has given her children, children-in-law and grandchildren the addtitional title Count/Countess(Komtesse de Monpezat from today. The Title will be heriditary in the male line

Kongehuset - Aktuelt - Nyheder

 

[norwegianne]

Interesting news. Thank you, Stefan.

Definitely a nice touch for Prince Henrik. Something akin to the Mountbatten-Windsor in the UK.

So, it will be
Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark, Count of Monpezat;
Crown Princess Mary of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat;
Prince Christian of Denmark, Count of Montpezat;
Princess Isabella of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat;
Prince Joachim of Denmark, Count of Montpezat;
[Princess Marie of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat]
Prince Nikolai of Denmark, Count of Monpezat
Prince Felix of Denmark, Count of Monpezat.

It will be hereditary for any child born within a legal marriage.

As female descendants get the Danish title Komtesse on their own, (Prinsesse Isabella til Danmark, Komtesse af Monpezat) whereas the spouses get grevinde by way of their husband's title (EG. Prinsesse Marie af Danmark, grevinde af Monpezat)- is there such a distrinction in English?

I'm a bit uncertain as to whether it would be tied-in with the title Prince of Denmark, and whether or not the "legal marriage" would need to have the permission of the monarch for the title to continue, or if it could be a supplement to the Counts of Rosenborg...

 

[Madame Royale]

Now this is something truly splendid.

 

[norwegianne]

"The Queen and the Prince Consort have considered this for quite some time, and it has led to the belief that it was the right thing to do," Cabinet secretary Henning Fode.

Monpezat til Frederik og Joachim - Danmark

 

[Empress]

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

 

[morhange]

Perhaps it is like Count of Rosenberg? Or maybe the title that Nikolai & Felix's children will use, similar to the Dutch Royal Family. For example, say Nikolai has a son (we'll call him Joachim ) so his son's title might be

His Excellency Count Joachim of Monpezat

Or something to that effect. Is Count of Rosenberg only given in the event of a morganatic marriage? Seeing as now Denmark has a "commoner" Crown Princess, and former and future commoner princesses, perhaps that title will not be used so much anymore. And probably Joachim and Marie's children will be Princes or Princesses. Why not!

I think Komtesse/Grevinde depend on who has the title, just like the til/af Danmark. Isabella is a born member of the DRF, while Mary is just a spouse of the Crown Prince. Isabella holds the title as a Countess by birth, while her mother holds it as a Countess by marriage. I'm not an expert in Danish language or titles, but I think this is correct.

 

[msleiman]

So Mary hold the title wife of a count. While Isabella hold the title countess?

 

[betina]

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

No there is not. A countess is married to af count while a Komtesse is a daughter of a Count and countess.
I havent yet found a english word for Komtesse yet but I think the most proper one would be Lady.

And for the last question yes they will. Their future children will be HH like their two halfbrothers. They are in line to the throne too.

 

[Paty]

As female descendants get the Danish title Komtesse on their own, (Prinsesse Isabella til Danmark, Komtesse af Monpezat) whereas the spouses get grevinde by way of their husband's title (EG. Prinsesse Marie af Danmark, grevinde af Monpezat)- is there such a distrinction in English?

So... Princess Mary and future Princess Marie are Grevinde af Monpezat.?
And other thing...in The Press Release the is nothing about Nikolai and Felix!

And why of Monpezat? I know that Prince Consort is Count on Monpezat, but is the Queen in the right to give that title to his children?

 

[msleiman]

Count of Monpezat is a Fench Title, not a Danish one right?

 

[Marengo]

It was a french title (or not a title at all, as the count-claims for Hendrik are shady) but with Queen Margrethe's decision it became a Danish title now.

 

[Stefan]

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

They will as the Queen has given their Consent to the marriage in the Council of State as required in the succession law.
The Komtesse is for unmarried daughters to a certain age (not sure which one). The daughters of Lennart Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg where also called Komtesse Diana, Komtesse Bettina etc. until they reached a certain age.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Huh Interesting...Monpezat French now Danish.

Oh well you can read more about it [url=http://politiken.dk/indland/article502050.ece]here[/URL] and [url=http://jp.dk/indland/article1331430.ece]here[/URL]

 

[norwegianne]

So Mary hold the title wife of a count. While Isabella hold the title countess?

Essentially, yes. There is a difference in Danish, though.

So... Princess Mary and future Princess Marie are Grevinde af Monpezat.?
And other thing...in The Press Release the is nothing about Nikolai and Felix!

Nikolai and Felix are covered by Prince Joachim's title as Christian and Isabella are by their father's. They are mentioned in the article from Politiken posted by GlitteringTiaras: Frederik og Joachim bliver grever - Politiken.dk

And why of Monpezat? I know that Prince Consort is Count on Monpezat, but is the Queen in the right to give that title to his children?

It's not his title (or lack of it) she's passing on, but she's using his surname to create a new title for his descendants. As the title Count of Rosenborg was initially created by using a place-name (Rosenborg Palace) that had connection to the Danish royals, she has chosen to use a surname that has connection to Prince Henrik's descendants, and give them a title.

They will as the Queen has given their Consent to the marriage in the Council of State as required in the succession law.
The Komtesse is for unmarried daughters to a certain age (not sure which one). The daughters of Lennart Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg where also called Komtesse Diana, Komtesse Bettina etc. until they reached a certain age.

Komtesse is actually used in Denmark even after marriage, and also as adults. (kvinder.bt.dk: Vi kan ikke være alene article about Komtesse Camilla and Komtesse Josephine of Rosenborg)

 

[Empress]

Well it seems to me that the word Komtesse is easily translated to Countess, while Grevinde is also translated to Countess, but perhaps in different degrees? I can not imagine that Komtesse means Lady, as it seems like a direct aliteration to the French comtesse and grevinde seems to have some correlation to the duch Gravin which is countess.

 

[crm2317]

Ok please have patience with me while I ask some questions

Will the title be hereditary only in the male line? For example through the sons of Christian, Isabella, Nikolai and Felix? Or will it be similar to the dutch family? Where Christian's children are Princes and Princesses while their cousins are Counts and Countesses?

I think it is a lovely idea

 

[BeatrixFan]

What a sweet thing for HM to do! A nice tribute to her husband. Really lovely.

 

[norwegianne]

Ok please have patience with me while I ask some questions

Will the title be hereditary only in the male line? For example through the sons of Christian, Isabella, Nikolai and Felix? Or will it be similar to the dutch family? Where Christian's children are Princes and Princesses while their cousins are Counts and Countesses?

As far as I've understood it, from the press release and subsequent news articles - the title will be passed on to descendants born in legal marriages, according to the current rules. The title "Count of Monpezat" will be continued by the male descendants, whereas the females will be given the title "countess of Monpezat"

Given that Isabella is not male, she will not bring the title with her to her children, I would suppose. It might be that she will, as Camilla of Rosenborg did with her suffix, use "of Monpezat" for her children, but that's purely guessing.

No official comment as to your last question has been made, and until such a point, we can only assume that like with existing precedent in the Danish royal family - the children of Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix (and any other males with the title Prince of Denmark) will also be Prince/Princesses of Denmark. It only dies out when permission isn't given for a marriage, or there are only daughters.

 

[crm2317]

As far as I've understood it, from the press release and subsequent news articles - the title will be passed on to descendants born in legal marriages, according to the current rules. The title "Count of Monpezat" will be continued by the male descendants, whereas the females will be given the title "countess of Monpezat"

Given that Isabella is not male, she will not bring the title with her to her children, I would suppose. It might be that she will, as Camilla of Rosenborg did with her suffix, use "of Monpezat" for her children, but that's purely guessing.

No official comment as to your last question has been made, and until such a point, we can only assume that like with existing precedent in the Danish royal family - the children of Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix (and any other males with the title Prince of Denmark) will also be Prince/Princesses of Denmark. It only dies out when permission isn't given for a marriage, or there are only daughters.

Thanks so much for your answer Norwegianne! I guess if they chose not to comment further we will just have to wait for the next generation and see which titles the receive

 

[Adamari]

It does not seem fair to me that this new title can only be inherited through the male line, that it cannot be passed on through the female line. That hardly seems appropriate in the 21st century.

 

[Empress]

Or it could be a way for Margrethe to begin collecting titles for her descendants; like the ones she didn't take up when she succeeded her father: King/Queen of Denmark, the Wends and the Goths, Duke/Duchess of Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Dithmarschen, Lauenburg and Oldenburg

Err... why did she not take up all of her fathers titles? So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

 

[morhange]

The way I understand it, Margrethe chose not to accept the titles.

And I don't find the fact that Isabella not passing the title on to her children strange. When she gets married, she will take her husband's name (though still be HRH Princess Isabella, I'm sure) and her children have their father's name. Perhaps Frederik will change that, but there's never been a case like this before, I dont' think, since Danish princesses have, so far, married other royals/nobles.

 

[Stefan]

It does not seem fair to me that this new title can only be inherited through the male line, that it cannot be passed on through the female line. That hardly seems appropriate in the 21st century.

That's the way the nobility work's in most countries. Also in Denmark. And Margrethe made no exception for her own descendants. It would be strange if her granddaughter could pass her title to her descendants and the daugters of other danish Counts can not.

The way I understand it, Margrethe chose not to accept the titles.

And I don't find the fact that Isabella not passing the title on to her children strange. When she gets married, she will take her husband's name (though still be HRH Princess Isabella, I'm sure) and her children have their father's name. Perhaps Frederik will change that, but there's never been a case like this before, I dont' think, since Danish princesses have, so far, married other royals/nobles.

She could probably give her children the surname af Monpezat the same way how Countesses Camilla of Rosenborg children are named af Rosensborg without the title.

 

[norwegianne]

So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

Her only title is actually HM the Queen of Denmark, as Prince Henrik gave up his name and title when they were married. This new creation of titles is not given to Prince Henrik, who remains Prince Henrik of Denmark.

 

[betina]

Err... why did she not take up all of her fathers titles? So her only title is Queen Margrethe, and by extension of being married to Henri Comtesse of Montpezant?

She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore

 

[HRH Kerry]

Interesting. I just thought that she would automatically because she was the monarch.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Well, there are two titles meaning countess in Danish? How odd. On another note, do we know if Marie and Joachims children will also be called Prince/ss?

It's the Germanic system - it has a different title for an unmarried daughter and for the wife of an aristocrat. Though today it's not longer in use in Germany, where former titles are part of the name. So there is only a male and a female form.

It used to be "Herzogin" for the wife of a Herzog (duke) and "Fürstin" for the wife of a Fürst (prince) but "Prinzessin" for the daughters of either Herzog or Fürst, the wife of a Graf (Count) was "Gräfin" while the daughter was a Komtesse and "Baronin" for the wife of the Baron and "Baroness" for the daughter. In addition there was the title "Freiherr" for Baron, whose wife was the "Freifrau" and the daughter was the "Freiin".

Same system obviously in Scandinavia.

 

[Stefan]

It's the Germanic system - it has a different title for an unmarried daughter and for the wife of an aristocrat. Though today it's not longer in use in Germany, where former titles are part of the name. So there is only a male and a female form.

It used to be "Herzogin" for the wife of a Herzog (duke) and "Fürstin" for the wife of a Fürst (prince) but "Prinzessin" for the daughters of either Herzog or Fürst, the wife of a Graf (Count) was "Gräfin" while the daughter was a Komtesse and "Baronin" for the wife of the Baron and "Baroness" for the daughter. In addition there was the title "Freiherr" for Baron, whose wife was the "Freifrau" and the daughter was the "Freiin".

Same system obviously in Scandinavia.

At last the bernadottes have used the Komtesse for the daughters of Count Lennart.
It's not always the case that children of a Fürst ar Princes or Countes. For example in the bavarian Family wrede all membes of the Family bear the Title Fürst/Fürstin.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Her only title is actually HM the Queen of Denmark, as Prince Henrik gave up his name and title when they were married. This new creation of titles is not given to Prince Henrik, who remains Prince Henrik of Denmark.

Maybe it's similar to the British queen deciding on Mountbatten-Windsor for her descendants who are not prince/princess. As the Danish Royal family has no family name (see the problem with the Greek exiled Royals who have no family name either, as they were of Danish descent) they now have the "af Monpezat"-title. In fact if Henri de Laborde de Monpezat hadn't married a (then future) queen, his sons would both be Comte de Laborde de Monpezat. So it makes sense to give their father's name to them as an additional Danish title.

At last the bernadottes have used the Komtesse for the daughters of Count Lennart.
It's not always the case that children of a Fürst ar Princes or Countes. For example in the bavarian Family wrede all membes of the Family bear the Title Fürst/Fürstin.

Count Lennart was not a German Count but his title was a creation of the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg. Probably the use of "Komtesse" came from there.

The Wredes used the old system at least till 1918. And I found family trees of the Habsburg where Archduchess Anna Gabriele is written in as born a "Prinzessin von Wrede" - which is the old way it was done in the German monarchies. But of course nowadays the daughters of Barons and Counts take the female form of the family name. While I know quite some princely Houses who insist on the "Prinzessin"-style for the daughters. EG. Sayn, Oettingen, Hohenlohe, Leiningen....

 

[Empress]

She coulnt take his fathers titles because they dont have female inheritance in these states and futhermore they are not part of Denmark anymore

Well that's not entirely true as she did become Queen.