New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024

[Tatiana Maria]

Not sure if this was asked, will King Fredrik and Queen Mary's children and future grandchildren be known as Frederik's denomination Kongen af Danmark /King of Denmark as (name followed by) prince/ss Af Danmark?

Frederik isn't using Kongen af Danmark (King of Denmark): Judging by his message to Parliament (see my previous post in this thread); he is following his mother's lead and using Danmarks Konge (Denmark's King).

I'm not sure if I understand your question; are you perhaps asking whether the King is also a Prince of Denmark? If so then no, he is not. The Scandinavian monarchs drop their Prince titles upon becoming Kings.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/den-kongelige-familie/hm-kongen/#

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

The people who insist that the House to which Frederik belongs is Monpezat are stuck in the middle ages, plain and simple. It's absolutely laughable to think the Danish royal family – ruling in an absolute monarchy – would assume Frederik's agnatic family name over the family name of the mother he has inherited the throne from.

As for the people who claim that some man playing prince down in Schleswig-Holstein would take issue with that, I guarantee the DRF wouldn't hesitate creating a new House of Glücksborg before even considering assuming Monpezat as a new royal house

On a side note, Queen Margrethe II's decision to simplify the regnal title by dropping the references to German tribes and territories (territories which were already lost to the Danish crown in 1863) apparently inspired King Carl XVI Gustaf to do the same with his own title when he ascended the Swedish throne four years later.

CG ascended the throne just a year and a half after QMII

 

[Mbruno]

Frederik isn't using Kongen af Danmark (King of Denmark): Judging by his message to Parliament (see my previous post in this thread); he is following his mother's lead and using Danmarks Konge (Denmark's King).

I'm not sure if I understand your question; are you perhaps asking whether the King is also a Prince of Denmark? If so then no, he is not. The Scandinavian monarchs drop their Prince titles upon becoming Kings.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/den-kongelige-familie/hm-kongen/#

Danmarks Konge is convenient to avoid the issue of whether he should be called Konge til Danmark or Konge af Danmark.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

CG ascended the throne just a year and a half after QMII

Thanks, corrected. Given how the Scandinavian monarchies have been influenced by one another, titlewise, I am starting to wonder if Queen Margrethe II made the changes she did to the title of the monarch ("Danmarks" instead of "til/af Danmark" and deleting subsidiary titles) to bring Denmark's usage into closer conformity with Norway's and Sweden's.

 

[Izzie]

The people who insist that the House to which Frederik belongs is Monpezat are stuck in the middle ages, plain and simple. It's absolutely laughable to think the Danish royal family – ruling in an absolute monarchy – would assume Frederik's agnatic family name over the family name of the mother he has inherited the throne from.

As for the people who claim that some man playing prince down in Schleswig-Holstein would take issue with that, I guarantee the DRF wouldn't hesitate creating a new House of Glücksborg before even considering assuming Monpezat as a new royal house



CG ascended the throne just a year and a half after QMII

Isn't Frederik of the House of Glucksborg? What other house does he belong to? I've seen some comments trying to say that another current monarch is now Glucksborg line - but I'm confused.

 

[Mbruno]

Isn't Frederik of the House of Glucksborg? What other house does he belong to? I've seen some comments trying to say that another current monarch is now Glucksborg line - but I'm confused.

No, Queen Margrethe II was the last monarch of the House of Glücksburg. King Frederik X belongs to his father's family, which is the House of Monpezat.

Yes, according to other posters, I live "in the Middle Ages".

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Isn't Frederik of the House of Glucksborg? What other house does he belong to? I've seen some comments trying to say that another current monarch is now Glucksborg line - but I'm confused.

Indeed he is.

People insisting on something else are free to contact the DRF and get corrected

 

[Izzie]

Indeed he is.

People insisting on something else are free to contact the DRF and get corrected

Why are people insisting (on other platforms) that he is not of the House of Glucksborg and would be Monpezat and the House of Glucksborg now resides with another monarch. Are people just trying to claim a house?

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

[-]I thought QMII changed the DRF to the House to Monpezat in 2008, thus all current descendants are Count/ess of Monpezat?[/-]

I was wrong. Agnatically, they are known as House of Monpezat, but officially they are still House of Glücksburg

No, Queen Margrethe II was the last monarch of the House of Glücksburg. King Frederik X belongs to his father's family, which is the House of Monpezat.

Yes, according to other posters, I live "in the Middle Ages".

You are technically correct had Denmark continued to have Salic law, which it hasn't for over 70 years

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I thought QMII changed the DRF to the House to Monpezat in 2008, thus all current descendants are Count/ess of Monpezat?

No, not at all. The creation of the Count/ess of Monpezat title did not involve any changes to the house/dynasty/family name. You can read the full 2008 announcement here:

Here is a link to the text of the press release of April 30 2008, which Somebody's source posted in image form.



Pressemeddelelse

Amalienborg, den 30. april 2008

Hendes Majestæt Dronningen har besluttet, at Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsen samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachim tillægges titel af ’greve af Monpezat’. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary samt Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Joachims kommende ægtefælle frk. Marie Cavallier vil som følge heraf føre titlen ’grevinde af Monpezat’.

Titlen føres endvidere af efterkommere født i lovligt ægteskab, i overensstemmelse med de almindelige regler, der gælder herom, hvilket vil sige, at titlen ’greve af Monpezat’ videreføres af mandlige descendenter, medens kvindelige descendenter fører titlen ’komtesse af Monpezat’.

Der er tale om en ny, yderligere titel der kan anvendes i tilknytning til de eksisterende. Titlen berører ikke de nugældende prædikater. Navn og titel vil herefter i kort form eksempelvis kunne være:

. Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprins Frederik, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsesse Mary, grevinde af Monpezat
. Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Christian, greve af Monpezat
. Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Isabella, komtesse af Monpezat

Eventuelle henvendelser på denne pressemeddelelse bedes rettet til Kabinetssekretariatet på telefon 3340 2484.


Henning Fode
Hendes Majestæt Dronningens Kabinetssekretær

Why are people insisting (on other platforms) that he is not of the House of Glucksborg and would be Monpezat and the House of Glucksborg now resides with another monarch. Are people just trying to claim a house?

Let us just say that I do not believe there would be nearly as many people making that claim if the genders were reversed.

No, Queen Margrethe II was the last monarch of the House of Glücksburg. King Frederik X belongs to his father's family, which is the House of Monpezat.

Yes, according to other posters, I live "in the Middle Ages".

I am afraid I would have to firmly disagree with all of you. Firstly because, during the Middle Ages, it was more common for royals and nobles to use their mother's house/family names than it was in later European history, but also because both in the Middle Ages and in the 21st century, it is surely the prerogative of the monarch(s) to determine the name of their house, not yours or mine or any other royal watcher's.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Why are people insisting (on other platforms) that he is not of the House of Glucksborg and would be Monpezat and the House of Glucksborg now resides with another monarch. Are people just trying to claim a house?

Because those people maintain the idea that a woman is somehow less than a man and as such, despite inheriting the throne from his mother, he belongs to his father's house.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In the royal website's updated Danish version of its history page, Frederik's succession as King is discussed in the Glücksborg section.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/monarkiet-i-danmark/kongehusets-historie/


On his defunct website as Crown Prince, it was always stated that Frederik would continue to line of Glücksborg monarchs.

"The day Crown Prince Frederik ascends the throne of Denmark he will be the sixth monarch in the line of Glücksborg, a family which took the Danish throne when Christian IX was crowned after Frederik VII died without an heir in 1863."

https://web.archive.org/web/20111117000951/http://www.kronprinsparret.dk/47000c​

We have observed from the flags used on abdication day that King Frederik X has retained the Oldenborg inescutcheon in the royal arms. In the royal heraldry of most European countries, including Denmark, the inescutcheon (the small shield at center point) traditionally corresponds to the individual's dynasty.

(The house of Glücksborg is a branch of the Oldenborg dynasty, which is itself a branch of the original Danish royal dynasty, as explained on the history page linked above.)

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/news/the-transfer-of-the-royal-flags


And finally, a change as surprising as declaring the name of the house to be Monpezat (because regardless of what foreign royalists might think is patriarchally correct, it is not something most Danes expect) would need to be announced, and it has not been announced.

I was wrong. Agnatically, they are known as House of Monpezat, but officially they are still House of Glücksburg

If by "agnatically" you mean that Monpezat is a name from Frederik's agnatic (strict male line) lineage, that is not the case. The name Monpezat derives from a 17th-century female ancestor of Prince Henrik named Catherine who was lady of Monpezat. If Frederik used his "agnatic name", it would be Laborde.

I sincerely doubt that any of the people on Wikipedia, social media etc. who are attempting to make the DRF known as the "House of Monpezat" are agnatically (or at all) related to either the Glücksborg (the Danish spelling) or Monpezat families, if that is what you meant. Fortunately, there is no Louis Mountbatten of Denmark.

 

[Gawin]

If you believe that Frederik X isn’t a member of the House of Glücksborg because that was his mother’s family not his father’s, it follows that neither his mother nor her ancestors were entitled to that name. After all, they descended from Count Christian of Oldenburg (later King Christian I of Denmark) who inherited Schleswig (of which Glücksburg is a part) and Holstein from his maternal uncle.

The Glücksborgs belong to a younger branch of King Christian I’s descendants, who were given the title of Duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, and eventually succeeded to the Danish throne when the elder line died out in 1863. If they could call themselves the House of Glücksborg even though patrilineally they were Oldenburgs, then so can Frederik X.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I can't locate any reference to members of the royal house/royal family being exempt from the jurisdiction of the courts in the current Constitution (see above link). Could you tell me what that is based on?

To answer my own question: They are not exempted by the current Constitution, but by the constitution of 1665, specifically Article 25, which remains on the books.

LOV nr 20001 af 14/11/1665, Statsministeriet

Lex Regia (Konge-Lov) (Kongeloven)

www.retsinformation.dk

As this thread is for the subject of titles, I respectfully ask that, if anyone wishes to further discuss royal immunity, we take the discussion here: General Questions and Information about the Danish Royal Family

 

[meeralakshmi]

In my opinion Margrethe shouldn't have removed the titles, she should have simply decided that in the next generation only the children/grandchildren of the monarch would be titled. Removing the titles changed nothing about the children's role in the family so there was no real reason to do it. While I'm sure it didn't mean that she loved her younger son's grandchildren any less I wouldn't blame them for taking it that way, especially Athena who was only ten at the time. It also doesn't make sense that she removed Joachim's children's birthright titles but allowed his ex-wife to keep her courtesy title. An important consideration is that had Margrethe not given her descendants her husband's title as a subsidiary title in 2008 the kids would have been left with no titles at all and would simply be Mr./Miss Glücksburg/Monpezat.


Younger son's CHILDREN, my bad.


And by titled I meant royal titles of course.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In my opinion Margrethe shouldn't have removed the titles, she should have simply decided that in the next generation only the children/grandchildren of the monarch would be titled. Removing the titles changed nothing about the children's role in the family so there was no real reason to do it.

The Queen's stated reason was

"With her decision, Her Majesty The Queen wishes to create the framework for the four grandchildren to be able to shape their own lives to a much greater extent without being limited by the special considerations and duties that a formal affiliation with the Royal House of Denmark as an institution involves."​

Which is to say, she wished to provide the four grandchildren with the freedom to make unconventional choices that would not meet the stricter expectations for a Prince or Princess to Denmark. Though she understandably did not provide specific examples, other posters have mentioned the expectation that Princes to Denmark will complete a period of military service, and the expectation that Princes and Princesses to Denmark will avoid commercialized careers and branding using their titles. Occasions when Princes Nikolai and Felix hadn't fulfilled those expectations had caused some comment in Denmark.

It also doesn't make sense that she removed Joachim's children's birthright titles but allowed his ex-wife to keep her courtesy title.

By 2022, Prince Joachim's ex-wife was only a Countess and Excellency, the same titles her sons were permitted to keep.

An important consideration is that had Margrethe not given her descendants her husband's title as a subsidiary title in 2008 the kids would have been left with no titles at all and would simply be Mr./Miss Glücksburg/Monpezat.

If she hadn't already given them her husband's comital title as a subsidiary title in 2008, I expect she would either have done so when she removed their princely titles, or else she would have granted them a comital title with another surname to replace their princely title (probably Count and Countess of Rosenborg like previous princes who lost their titles on marriage, or Count of Frederiksborg for the sons of the Countess of Frederiksborg).

 

[meeralakshmi]

By 2022, Prince Joachim's ex-wife was only a Countess and Excellency, the same titles her sons were permitted to keep.

With Alexandra the agreement was that she would be HH Princess Alexandra of Denmark (she was lowered from HRH to HH following her divorce), Countess of Frederiksborg unless she remarried (which she did) and then she would simply be Her Excellency Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. I think the main reason she was given a courtesy title was because at the time of her divorce she was the mother of two princes and her former MIL wanted her to have a title that reflected that. However her sons are no longer princes.

 

[duke of poliganc]

With Alexandra the agreement was that she would be HH Princess Alexandra of Denmark (she was lowered from HRH to HH following her divorce), Countess of Frederiksborg unless she remarried (which she did) and then she would simply be Her Excellency Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. I think the main reason she was given a courtesy title was because at the time of her divorce she was the mother of two princes and her former MIL wanted her to have a title that reflected that. However her sons are no longer princes.

I think a big part of her keeping the title of princess and then getting the comital title is the fact that she was very popular and loved by the Danes during her time as a princess!

 

[Prinsara]

the mother of two princes

Who were 3rd and 4th in line for the throne when the Crown Prince had no children of his own.

 

[meeralakshmi]

Who were 3rd and 4th in line for the throne when the Crown Prince had no children of his own.

Yes that too.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

With Alexandra the agreement was that she would be HH Princess Alexandra of Denmark (she was lowered from HRH to HH following her divorce), Countess of Frederiksborg unless she remarried (which she did) and then she would simply be Her Excellency Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. I think the main reason she was given a courtesy title was because at the time of her divorce she was the mother of two princes and her former MIL wanted her to have a title that reflected that. However her sons are no longer princes.

I don't think I understand the point you're making. The reasoning for removing Joachim's children's titles can't be applied to Alexandra's situation at all.

I think it's almost certain that Nikolai using his title for commercial purposes – whether or not he even thought of it at the time – was the catalyst for QMII removing the titles. Especially with the official reasoning being that she wanted to allow the kids to "shape their own lives to a much greater extent". She didn't want to limit the kids in the opportunities inevitably offered to them due to their situation but making the DRF an official part of their brand by using their princely titles is at odds with the a royal family's raison d'être.

Given that Nikolai had only been an "adult prince" for about 5 years when the titles were removed but already had misstepped multiple times, I think QMII saw a potential for this to become a big issue in the future. The more "peripheral" princes and princesses without an official role within the royal family there are, the more opportunities there are for this issue to arise.

By "demoting" them to their noble titles, their commercial endeavours won't impact the DRF. As Alexandra has been using a courtesy title since 2007, I fail to see how you can use the argument that she should lose her title because the kids lost their princely titles.

 

[tommy100]

I find it interesting this thread seems to have taken off again at the same time we see Princess Isabella have a large public celebration of her 18th birthday.

 

[meeralakshmi]

I find it interesting this thread seems to have taken off again at the same time we see Princess Isabella have a large public celebration of her 18th birthday.

Will Vincent and Josephine get one as well?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I find it interesting this thread seems to have taken off again at the same time we see Princess Isabella have a large public celebration of her 18th birthday.

I'm afraid I don't understand your implication. Are you suggesting that enjoyment of the very public 18th birthday celebrations for someone who is only a "spare" is causing people to view the downsizing of titles more negatively?

 

[tommy100]

No not at all. It just made me thing that during the fall out from Margrethe's decision it was stated by Mary that it would likely have implications for their own children and that "we will look at our own children's titles when the time comes" - fast forward 2.5 years and the "spare" is having quite a large public celebration of their 18th birthday, suggesting it is quite likely that Vincent and Josephine will have the same for their 18th. I am 100% not saying they shouldn't be having a big birthday for Isabella and her younger siblings, but it seems possibly slightly at odds with what Margrethe's decision was trying to achieve to me.

​

 

[Sylvia M.]

I thought that the king's children will each permanently have prince/princess titles (spouses as well). All of their children (except for Christian's) will have the count/countess titles like Prince Joachim and Princess Marie's family. If for some reason Prince Christian marries and is childless, will Princess Isabella's children be eventually elevated to prince and princess titles?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Welcome and congratulations on your first post.

I thought that the king's children will each permanently have prince/princess titles (spouses as well).

Not necessarily. Historically, it has been extremely common for born Princes and Princesses to/of Denmark to lose their titles (mostly upon marriage), and tommy100 mentioned then Crown Princess Mary's statement that her children's titles will be "looked at" in due time.

All of their children (except for Christian's) will have the count/countess titles like Prince Joachim and Princess Marie's family.

As matters stand, the Count/ess of Monpezat title will only be passed on by male descendants, so King Frederik IX would need to take further action for Isabella or Josephine's children to be Count/ess.


May I suggest we move discussion about future titles for King Frederik IX's descendants to the general thread on Danish titles, where the topic has been discussed before?

General Questions and Information about Danish Titles

* * This thread is dedicated to general questions and information about Danish Titles. For the particular title changes in 2008, 2022 and 2024, please see and use our extra thread instead: "New Titles for Queen Margrethe's Descendants: 2008 & 2022, 2024" Please take a look at the TRF...

www.theroyalforums.com

 

[meeralakshmi]

Which is to say, she wished to provide the four grandchildren with the freedom to make unconventional choices that would not meet the stricter expectations for a Prince or Princess to Denmark. Though she understandably did not provide specific examples, other posters have mentioned the expectation that Princes to Denmark will complete a period of military service, and the expectation that Princes and Princesses to Denmark will avoid commercialized careers and branding using their titles. Occasions when Princes Nikolai and Felix hadn't fulfilled those expectations had caused some comment in Denmark.

She could have taken Nikolai and Felix’s titles for failing to comply with regulations as adults but allowed their minor siblings to keep their titles (who would have been 13 and 10 at the time).

Also people have brought up the children of Prince Knud but at the time marrying unequally would always cost you your title, that’s why Princess Elisabeth chose not to marry her boyfriend.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

She could have taken Nikolai and Felix’s titles for failing to comply with regulations as adults but allowed their minor siblings to keep their titles (who would have been 13 and 10 at the time).

That would have been an option. It would be similar to Norway's King Harald V allowing his daughter to keep her membership of the Royal House, and therefore her HRH, until she began working as an entrepreneur, at which point he revoked it.

But even the collective removal for institutional reasons which was carried out by Queen Margrethe II resulted in angry reactions from Nikolai and from his sympathizers among the general public. If the Queen had, instead, removed the title specifically from Nikolai, and explained that it was because his personal choices were unsuitable for a Prince to Denmark, would the reaction not have been even worse? In that scenario, I could see the narrative "my nasty controlling grandma is punishing me for trying to earn my own living" dominating the discussion.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Gæsteliste ved fødselsdagsforestilling i Det Kongelige Teater den 15. april 2025

Gæsteliste ved fødselsdagsforestilling i Det Kongelige Teater den 15. april 2025 i anledning af H.K.H. Prinsesse Isabellas 18-års fødselsdag. Den kongelige familieHans Majestæt KongenHend...

www.kongehuset.dk

Den kongelige familie
Hans Majestæt Kongen
Hendes Majestæt Dronningen
Hans Kongelige Højhed Kronprinsen
Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Isabella
Hans Kongelige Højhed Prins Vincent
Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Josephine
Hendes Majestæt Dronning Margrethe
Hans Excellence Greve Nikolai af Monpezat
Hans Excellence Greve Felix af Monpezat
Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Benedikte
Hendes Majestæt Dronning Anne-Marie
Hans Højhed Prins Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg
Hendes Højhed Prinsesse Carina zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg​

In the "royal family" section of the guestlist for the theater performance to celebrate Princess Isabella's 18th birthday, Count Nikolai and Count Felix are placed ahead of Princess Benedikte. Their parents are not in attendance, so this is presumably their independent ranking.

It seems that nothing in their official treatment (precedence, birthday acknowledgements) has been altered since January 1, 2023, so one could argue that that change was in name only.

On the other hand, even before the removal of their princely titles, Nikolai and Felix were treated differently from past Princes to Denmark after turning 18 (no Order of the Elephant, no flag day, no official celebrations and no official role), so one could argue that the removal of princely titles was in line with the reforms that had already been applied to them.