Death of Queen Elizabeth II - Pre-Funeral Discussion and Reception

[An Ard Ri]

I didn't expect to see King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia together as its been a long ,long time since we've had them at the same event.

 

[wbenson]

Apparently some of the Gulf monarchs are offended by the plans, and they may elect not to attend as a result.

‘We wouldn’t put Charles on a bus’: Gulf royals balk at Queen’s funeral protocol

An expectation that the kings and presidents of the region would board a bus to travel to Westminster Abbey has not been received well. Nor have mooted seating plans that place regional royals and presidents on pews well behind Commonwealth leaders who were an important part of the Queen’s orbit, but are often less influential when it comes to Britain’s trade and security ties.

 

[Prinsara]

Royals attending Queen Elizabeth’s funeral

Reigning Royal Houses:
Belgium
King Philippe and Queen Mathilde

Denmark
Queen Margrethe II of Denmark and Crown Prince Frederik

Luxembourg
Grand Duke Henri and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa

Liechtenstein
Hereditary Prince Alois & Hereditary Princess Sophie

Monaco
Prince Albert II and Princess Charlene

Netherlands
King Willem-Alexander, Queen Máxima and Princess Beatrix

Norway
King Harald V and Queen Sonja

Spain
King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia
King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia

Sweden
King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia

Others:
Sultan Hassanal of Brunei
King Jigme and Queen Jetsun of Bhutan
Emperor Naruhito and Empress Masako of Japan
Sultan Haitham of Oman
Yang di-Pertuan Agong Abdullah and Raja Permaisuri Agong Tunku of Malaysia
King Tupou of Tonga

Non-reigning Royal Houses:
The Margravine of Baden
Hereditary Prince Bernhard & Hereditary Princess Stephanie of Baden
Tsar Simeon of Bulgaria
Prince Donatus, Landgrave of Hesse
Prince Philipp & Princess Saskia of Hohenlohe-Langenburg
Margareta & Prince Radu of Romania
Crown Prince Pavlos of Greece
Prince Emanuele of Savoy
Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia

Note: These are the people who are currently confirmed.

Also the Maori king.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

The Danes didn't suggest it. The British Foreign Ministry ADMITTED it. The DRF accepted the invitation as it was presented to them. Not their fault the British FM screwed up and now has to backtrack and technically UNINVITE the Crown Princess. But I figured the spinning and excuses would come rapidly. I wonder how some would react if the situations were reversed? How quick would that water flow under the bridge? I'm sure the word offended would be an understatement in THAT case.

It’s regrettable and embarrasing indeed - but it is what happens when they couldn’t keep the 2-person rule for everyone and instead invited a different number of people from different courts…

They should have excluded the abdicated monarch’s - or only invited them to the comittal service in St George’s Chapel as friends rather than in an official capacity.

 

[Prinsara]

It's a bit regrettable and embarrassing and a strange slip for the Foreign Office, but NO OTHER heir couple is being invited. It would actually look even worse if all three of them attended. Mary being Scottish and Australian is irrelevant. There are millions of people from the places where HM was Head of State, and none of them are going, either.

 

[Mbruno]

Apparently some of the Gulf monarchs are offended by the plans, and they may elect not to attend as a result.

‘We wouldn’t put Charles on a bus’: Gulf royals balk at Queen’s funeral protocol

On the seating plans, will the European monarchs and the G7 presidents like Macron and Biden be seated also well behind the UK and Commonwealth representatives ? I don’t understand exactly what “ regional royals and presidents” mean in The Guardian’s article. Does that refer to the Gulf royals specifically?

 

[Izzie]

I haven't followed all the details, but so far I have seen a Danish note saying that there was a regrettable error by the UK Foreign Office protocol. Could you please provide the reference where the FCO admits that it was indeed a mistake?

I take the DRF at their word. https://www.bt.dk/dronning-elizabet...rinsesse-mary-er-alligevel-ikke-inviteret-til

The DRF would not make such a mistake in interpretation of such an invitation. Much less put it on their official calendar. I am sure the incident will be excused, spun or twisted as needed. But again, I would love to have seen the reactions if the situation was reversed. But I doubt the incident would have been treated with such insignificance if the shoe were on the other foot.

 

[hereditarytitles]

It's a bit regrettable and embarrassing and a strange slip for the Foreign Office, but NO OTHER heir couple is being invited. It would actually look even worse if all three of them attended. Mary being Scottish and Australian is irrelevant. There are millions of people from the places where HM was Head of State, and none of them are going, either.

I think nobody could imagine how complicated this invitations would be. They had their plans in their drawers "London Bridge ..." but at that time they couldn' know exactly whom to invite (as heads of state and royal relations have changed). In my opinion Juan Carlos of Spain should not have been invited (but that is surely one of the problems they have to deal with)

I would not critisize the organization commitee (who actually is that and how many people are working on it?) It is an incredible act to organize such an event and people make mistakes. We all do... Give them a break, nothing is perfect.

Reading british papers I have the impression that Britain is in some kind of a turmoil. I don't envy the police, the organization teams and all of the people who have to control and organize this big event. Nobody is thinking of them, just critizising.

 

[camelot23ca]

It's a bit regrettable and embarrassing and a strange slip for the Foreign Office, but NO OTHER heir couple is being invited. It would actually look even worse if all three of them attended. Mary being Scottish and Australian is irrelevant. There are millions of people from the places where HM was Head of State, and none of them are going, either.

I’m still not clear in what the mistake was? They seem to have been consistent in inviting monarchs who are currently Heads of State with their spouses, as well as monarchs who are former Heads of State, also with their spouses. Queen Margrethe is in a unique situation as a reigning, widowed monarch. To me it seems like the Foreign Office relaxed the rules in her favour by extending the invitation to include the next most senior member of the DRF. So Frederik is going as his mother’s +1, to fill the spot that would have gone to Prince Henrik if he was still alive. If they had room to include heirs and their spouses of course both Frederik and Mary would have been invited.

It is an awkward situation, but it seems like it was well meant, in that Queen Margrethe will have her son there with her, which I’m sure she will appreciate.

 

[Mbruno]

I think nobody could imagine how complicated this invitations would be. They had their plans in their drawers "London Bridge ..." but at that time they couldn' know exactly whom to invite (as heads of state and royal relations have changed). In my opinion Juan Carlos of Spain should not have been invited (but that is surely one of the problems they have to deal with)

I would not critisize the organization commitee (who actually is that and how many people are working on it?) It is an incredible act to organize such an event and people make mistakes. We all do... Give them a break, nothing is perfect.

Reading british papers I have the impression that Britain is in some kind of a turmoil. I don't envy the police, the organization teams and all of the people who have to control and organize this big event. Nobody is thinking of them, just critizising.

As one of the UK members mentioned a few pages ago, King Juan Carlos is a Knight of the Garter. On that count alone, he merited an invitation and the same applies to Princess Beatrix.

 

[Minister of Court]

I didn't expect to see King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia together as its been a long ,long time since we've had them at the same event.

The funeral of Grand Duke Jean in 2019 must have been the last time.

 

[tommy100]

No, I think the call came around 8.30 that morning Somebody.

That is what it sounds like to me, from the details given by Jenna Bush Hager.

She says she and the interview crew were at Charles and Camilla’s home at that time when they were asked to be quiet as the phone call came.

I think the 12.30 time given may be a mistake IMO. A lot of newspaper reports mentioned specific times of flights on the royal helicopter between Dumfries and Balmoral and the helicopter flights can be seen online with timings etc so I suspect they've gone off them. Notes were being passed in parliament to the PM and Leader of the Opposition before 12noon so I think the 12.30 time is not right for the time they found out or the time they left. Not at all a criticism of Jenna.

 

[Sunnystar]

I think the 12.30 time given may be a mistake IMO. A lot of newspaper reports mentioned specific times of flights on the royal helicopter between Dumfries and Balmoral and the helicopter flights can be seen online with timings etc so I suspect they've gone off them. Notes were being passed in parliament to the PM and Leader of the Opposition before 12noon so I think the 12.30 time is not right for the time they found out or the time they left. Not at all a criticism of Jenna.

I don't think the helicopter was on site at Dumfries House, so they would have needed to call one in, and clearly Charles & Camilla left at 12:30. My guess is that the call came in about the Queen's sudden downturn earlier and they called the helicopter, readied themselves for the unexpected trip and were receiving phone calls with updates from the doctors and Anne as well as making other calls (the PM's office, etc). Best guess - Charles was notified around 11:45am, but it wasn't something Jenna or the full staff were aware of until shortly before the helicopter arrived to take Charles & Camilla to Balmoral.

 

[tommy100]

The royal house's communications department explains to BT why Crown Princess Mary will not attend Queen Elizabeth II's funeral:

"There has been a regrettable error in the invitation of the British Foreign Office's protocol. Thus, only the Queen and Crown Prince of the Danish side will attend Queen Elizabeth II's state funeral on Monday."

https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...-deltager-kronprinsesse-mary-alligevel-ikke-i

That is awkward to say the least, I wonder how on earth such a mistake could be made. I did think it was odd that both the Crown Prince and Crown Princess were noted as attending given no other royal heirs had been invited to attend as an extra to the "plus one" for heads of state. I guess, as much as the Danish court believe it to be a mistake on the British protocol office /those organising the fact that they didn't just let is pass and Mary attend maybe also suggests the British side feel comfortable that the error wasn't maybe wholly their fault? I don't know it just seems so odd! I did hear that yesterday was the last days for "rsvps" to the funeral.

 

[Drakes]

Excuse me? The Secret Service is responsible for the security of the President and his wife both here in the U.S. and when they travel abroad, and there was no way either Pres. Biden or Dr. Biden would be allowed to attend if they could not travel in their own vehicle. It's a matter of our national security.

It’s quite hard to understand, here in the UK, why the head of state of one overseas nation is considered more important than the head of state of all other overseas nations - the security of all of them is equally important.

There’s a huge security operation going on behind the scenes, both in London and here in Windsor. For example, Utility access covers in the streets are being checked and sealed, there’s a sniffer dog out on the streets checking all the street furniture, boats are patrolling the Thames, the CCTV has increased, etc. etc. It’s constant, but you won’t see any of this in the media coverage. I hope this is reassuring for people reading.

 

[Prinsara]

It’s quite hard to understand, here in the UK, why the head of state of one overseas nation is considered more important than the head of state of all other overseas nations - the security of all of them is equally important.

There’s a huge security operation going on behind the scenes, both in London and here in Windsor. For example, Utility access covers in the streets are being checked and sealed, there’s a sniffer dog out on the streets checking all the street furniture, boats are patrolling the Thames, the CCTV has increased, etc. etc. It’s constant, but you won’t see any of this in the media coverage. I hope this is reassuring for people reading.

I understand the lengths British intelligence and security are going to trying to keep what's probably the highest-profile event ever that's not a diplomatic summit safe, but the Secret Service has had their protocols for the President for decades, and they don't alter for anyone or anything, including the wishes of the President. It wouldn't (and hasn't) matter/ed if it was a garden party.

It's not saying the American President is more important than everyone and it's not meant to be disrespectful to the efforts of the British, but it's one of the highest ongoing priorities of US national security, and now really isn't the time to start questioning it. It's not gonna change.

 

[Hallo girl]

It is a huge event, could you imagine all those cars driving up towards the abbey, they would need to start arriving a couple of hours early. All the security bringing them from four corners of London. If anybody is unhappy about the arrangements then tell them not to come. We are burying or beloved Queen and that is what is important to us.

 

[Sister Morphine]

It’s quite hard to understand, here in the UK, why the head of state of one overseas nation is considered more important than the head of state of all other overseas nations - the security of all of them is equally important.

Because the President of the United States is one of the most powerful positions in the world, and something happening to that man or woman would be incredibly destabilizing, not just here obviously, but on a global scale. Yes, all heads of state are important, but if Pres. Biden is assassinated while in London because the Secret Service was not able or allowed to protect him the way their mandate requires, all hell will break loose. Not just here, but in the UK, and possibly worldwide depending on who the assassin was and what their motivations were.

 

[Mbruno]

Since the RSVP deadline has already passed, will the Foreign Office or the Palace publish a full official list of confirmed attendees?

 

[crm2317]

I had wondered if, in the run up to the funeral, the royal family might have released some private photos as they did when the Duke of Edinburgh passed away.

 

[camelot23ca]

I had wondered if, in the run up to the funeral, the royal family might have released some private photos as they did when the Duke of Edinburgh passed away.

I thought about that, too, and hope they still will, maybe after the funeral during the further week of mourning the family will be observing? Right now they have to balance her role as Head of State and the activities that go along with there being a new monarch, in addition to their personal memories.

 

[Somebody]

It’s regrettable and embarrasing indeed - but it is what happens when they couldn’t keep the 2-person rule for everyone and instead invited a different number of people from different courts…

They should have excluded the abdicated monarch’s - or only invited them to the comittal service in St George’s Chapel as friends rather than in an official capacity.

They were the queen's contemporaries (a little younger even - but at least much closer to her than the current monarchs), so it makes a lot of sense to invite them. Even more so if they also have been awarded the Order of the Garter (which includes Juan Carlos - so to me his invitation makes sense; it's not that Spain and Britain never have different views on issue... (think Gibraltar which has previously prevented Spanish royals to attend events) So, they are free to make their own decisions)

 

[Frelinghighness]

I’m still not clear in what the mistake was? They seem to have been consistent in inviting monarchs who are currently Heads of State with their spouses, as well as monarchs who are former Heads of State, also with their spouses. Queen Margrethe is in a unique situation as a reigning, widowed monarch. To me it seems like the Foreign Office relaxed the rules in her favour by extending the invitation to include the next most senior member of the DRF. So Frederik is going as his mother’s +1, to fill the spot that would have gone to Prince Henrik if he was still alive. If they had room to include heirs and their spouses of course both Frederik and Mary would have been invited.

It is an awkward situation, but it seems like it was well meant, in that Queen Margrethe will have her son there with her, which I’m sure she will appreciate.

Thank you for putting my exact thoughts down. This is for monarchs and former monarchs. She is the only widow, so they made an exception for her to have an heir. No mistake.

 

[Prinsara]

I was going to say the mistake was accidentally inviting Mary. But was there actually something from the Foreign Office confirming Mary's invitation, or did Denmark jump the gun and say Mary would be there...? One of them has to be backpedaling and it seems to be Denmark, while faulting the F.O. to save some face?

 

[Hallo girl]

At the end of the day The Queen of Denmark will be there, let us not get too hung up with the where with all.

 

[Mbruno]

I was going to say the mistake was accidentally inviting Mary. But was there actually something from the Foreign Office confirming Mary's invitation, [...]?

No. On the contrary, according to the note from the Zarzuela Palace that Lula posted, the FCO was explicit in the invitations sent to the diplomatic delegations: the ones sent to Belgium, the Netherlands and Spain were addressed to the current monarchs, former monarchs and respective spouses; the invitation sent to Denmark was addressed to the Queen and the Crown Prince only.

Personally I question the wisdom of inviting former monarchs given that most other countries are being held to a strict current Head of State plus one rule.

I understand the two situations being discussed here are not directly comparable: Beatrix and Juan Carlos are former Heads of State and Sofia is a former queen consort; Mary, on the other hand, is only an heir's consort. Nonetheless, the Danes may have felt discriminated against because they are being allowed a 2-person delegation whereas the Netherlands and Spain will have respectively 3 and 4 representatives (and so would have Belgium if King Albert and Queen Paola had decided to attend too).

 

[Muhler]

The British Foreign Ministry has today to Ritzau confirmed that they have send a profound apology to the DRF for inviting Mary by mistake.
Only QMII and Frederik will go.

https://www.bt.dk/underholdning/briter-undskylder-fejlinvitation-til-kronprinsesse-mary

 

[Sister Morphine]

If I were CP Frederik, I wouldn't go. Whether the mix-up was on the UK's end or on Denmark's end, CPss Mary isn't going while other countries are sending 3 or 4 representatives when they probably shouldn't. So, just stay in Denmark. Queen Margrethe can represent the whole family.

 

[Hallo girl]

If I were CP Frederik, I wouldn't go. Whether the mix-up was on the UK's end or on Denmark's end, CPss Mary isn't going while other countries are sending 3 or 4 representatives when they probably shouldn't. So, just stay in Denmark. Queen Margrethe can represent the whole family.

I think Frederick has more class than to do that.

 

[Muhler]

If I were CP Frederik, I wouldn't go. Whether the mix-up was on the UK's end or on Denmark's end, CPss Mary isn't going while other countries are sending 3 or 4 representatives when they probably shouldn't. So, just stay in Denmark. Queen Margrethe can represent the whole family.

The DRF calendar says QMII and Frederik will go. Benedikte will act as Rigsforstander. (Presumably Benedikte was intended to be Rigsforstander had all three been going.)