A daughter for Princess Beatrice and Edoardo - Sienna Elizabeth: September 18, 2021

[Princess_Eleanor]

That is somewhat of a surprise, I was really expecting a traditional name with Beatrice.

Sienna is based on the city of Siena, the spelling variation seems to be the preferred one for the name in the UK. I don't think it's used as a name in Italy, though?

The Italian connection is nice! I'm not a fan of city names myself but it goes nicely with cousin Savannah

Elizabeth - expected but very lovely, both because of the connection to the Queen and the fact that it's such a pretty name

 

[W.Y.CII]

Surprised but it's definitely a beautiful name!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Her names are: Sienna Elizabeth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443938871071363074

The announcement states:

"We are delighted to share that we have named our daughter Sienna Elizabeth Mapelli Mozzi.

We are all doing well and Wolfie is the best big brother to Sienna."​

So it seems the parents plan for their daughter to be known by her first name Sienna, rather than using a nickname after the example of her older brother.

I am not sure if anything can be read into it, but given the debate between royal watchers about whether the members of the Windsor family are in theory entitled to the same legal rights as private citizens to decide the surname of their children (even if none of the Windsors are likely to exercise that right any time in the foreseeable future), I noticed that both Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice included the surnames of their children in the announcement of the names they chose.

 

[Heavs]

The announcement states:

"We are delighted to share that we have named our daughter Sienna Elizabeth Mapelli Mozzi.

We are all doing well and Wolfie is the best big brother to Sienna."​

So it seems the parents plan for their daughter to be known by her first name Sienna, rather than using a nickname after the example of her older brother.

I am not sure if anything can be read into it, but given the debate between royal watchers about whether the members of the Windsor family are in theory entitled to the same legal rights as private citizens to decide the surname of their children (even if none of the Windsors are likely to exercise that right any time in the foreseeable future), I noticed that both Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice included the surnames of their children in the announcement of the names they chose.

I don't think anything can really be read into it. Mike announced "Mia Grace Tindall" on twitter and the other Philips/Tindall children were announced with their surnames even though there was no chance that they would use Mountbatten-Windsor.

I think most people (in the UK at least) send out name announcements with the full name in my experience.

 

[Mbruno]

The announcement states:

"We are delighted to share that we have named our daughter Sienna Elizabeth Mapelli Mozzi.

We are all doing well and Wolfie is the best big brother to Sienna."​

So it seems the parents plan for their daughter to be known by her first name Sienna, rather than using a nickname after the example of her older brother.

I am not sure if anything can be read into it, but given the debate between royal watchers about whether the members of the Windsor family are in theory entitled to the same legal rights as private citizens to decide the surname of their children (even if none of the Windsors are likely to exercise that right any time in the foreseeable future), I noticed that both Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice included the surnames of their children in the announcement of the names they chose.

It is worth noticing that both August and Sienna took their fathers' family name as surname. I am not sure if princesses Eugenie and Beatrice had a choice in this matter as the the Queen's statement to the Privy Council in 1960 seems to reserve the family name "Mountbatten-Windsor" only to her descendants in paternal line who do not bear the style of Royal Highness and the title of Prince or Princess. "Female descendants who marry and their descendants" seem to be explicitly excluded.


On the name itself, although Sienna is now a common name in England too, I am glad that they chose to acknowledge Edo's Italian heritage.

 

[Curryong]

Sienna Elizabeth is an absolutely beautiful name IMO and pays homage to both her British and Italian roots (and her tawny hair noted by grandma!)

 

[Mbruno]

Sienna Elizabeth is an absolutely beautiful name IMO and pays homage to both her British and Italian roots (and her tawny hair noted by grandma!)

Besides, both York girls honored their paternal grandparents too (August Philip and Sienna Elizabeth). I also like the name Sienna Elizabeth. I only miss a third given name like August's.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

With exception of the Cambridges whose children are of course closer to the throne, the younger Windsors seem to be moving away from traditional names.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

On the name itself, although Sienna is now a common name in England too, I am glad that they choose to honor Edo's Italian heritage.

"Sienna" is an English name and not an Italian one, even though it is a reference to the color of the earth of the Italian city of Siena. Thus, it is fitting for an English girl with three-quarters English and one-quarter Italian ancestry.

I don't think anything can really be read into it. Mike announced "Mia Grace Tindall" on twitter and the other Philips/Tindall children were announced with their surnames even though there was no chance that they would use Mountbatten-Windsor.

I think most people (in the UK at least) send out name announcements with the full name in my experience.

But there is no question that Mike and Zara Tindall and most people in the UK are legally entitled to decide the forenames and the surnames of their children, and so it makes sense for the Tindalls and members of the public to send name announcements with the full name.

 

[Alison H]

Sienna is quite popular now, especially amongst upper class arty people. I think it might have started when Sienna Miller was with Jude Law and they were the big names of the Primrose Hill set - it was probably more popular 10 years ago than it is now.


I think it's quite nice.

 

[Heavs]

But there is no question that Mike and Zara Tindall and most people in the UK are legally entitled to decide the forenames and the surnames of their children, and so it makes sense for the Tindalls and members of the public to send name announcements with the full name.

Yes but your previous post seemed to suggest that perhaps Bea and Eugenie included the baby's surname definitely being their husbands' surnames to avoid any confusion that M-W (or York) might be included? Or did I misunderstand?

Technically they probably could have made up a surname if they so chose (Winzzi?) as almost any person in the UK can as well.

I think they just announced the full name because that is traditional and for no other reason concerning M-W in the female line. Even the Cambridges added "of Cambridge".

IIRC our debate last time concerned if Charles would order Cosima Windsor to give her baby the father's name and force the registry office to change it if she used Windsor(!) That was a fun discussion.

 

[A-Bik]

Lovely name.

It would be glorious if she was a titian haired with the name Sienna!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Yes but your previous post seemed to suggest that perhaps Bea and Eugenie included the baby's surname definitely being their husbands' surnames to avoid any confusion that M-W (or York) might be included? Or did I misunderstand?

No, I didn't mean to suggest that. I'm aware that the public (including myself) would have assumed Sienna's surname to be Mapelli Mozzi even if it had not been included in the announcement.

All I was wondering (and as I mentioned, I am not at all sure if anything can be read into it) is whether the inclusion and particularly the wording of Princess Beatrice's announcement might suggest that under UK law, they technically do have a choice, even though it was obvious to all that they would make the traditional choice.

For comparison, I would have expected the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to announce "we have named our son George" rather than "we have named our son HRH Prince George of Cambridge", because under UK law they had a choice in their son's given name (even though George was traditional and expected of them) whereas they had no choice in their son being HRH Prince and of Cambridge.

 

[Denville]

It is worth noticing that both August and Sienna took their fathers' family name as surname. I am not sure if princesses Eugenie and Beatrice had a choice in this matter as the the Queen's statement to the Privy Council in 1960 seems to reserve the family name "Mountbatten-Windsor" only to her descendants in paternal line who do not bear the style of Royal Highness and the title of Prince or Princess. "Female descendants who marry and their descendants" seem to be explicitly excluded.


O.

But Anne signed her marraige register as Anne Mountbatten Windsor, at her first marriage...

 

[ThistleDoNicely]

Sienna Elizabeth is a lovely name! I'm quite surprised Beatrice chose it...I was expecting something traditional like Alice or Victoria. It's nice to see that members of the family are starting to choose more modern names.

 

[Curryong]

I think all the Queen’s grandchildren, with the exception of William for obvious reasons, have given non-traditional forenames to their children. And of course, Anne’s choice of Zara for her daughter was unusual at the time.

 

[Mbruno]

But Anne signed her marraige register as Anne Mountbatten Windsor, at her first marriage...

But Prince Harry for example did not. If we go by the statement to the Privy Council, neither Anne nor Harry has a surname.

The question on whether Eugenie or Beatrice had a choice in their babies's last names is complex. It is quite clear that the Queen's will as declared to the Privy Council is that her female descendants who marry and their respective descendants should not bear the surname Mountbatten-Windsor. In fact, for her own children to be known as the "House and Family of Windsor", the Queen felt it necessary to issue another (earlier) declaration to the Privy Council to supersede King George V's will in 1917 about the naming of his female descendants who married and their respective descendants.

If we take the position that the use of the family names Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor falls under the royal prerogative, then the Queen's will should supersede the common law on names, unless Parliament determined otherwise. It is not clear, however, if that is the case.

 

[Claire]

Oddly enough - my dad is convinced that the Queen now has 2 great grand daughters called Sienna. He has been calling Savanna, Sienna, for years.

 

[Princess Luna]

Love the name Sienna Elizabeth

 

[Kaye1850]

Besides, both York girls honored their paternal grandparents too (August Philip and Sienna Elizabeth). I also like the name Sienna Elizabeth. I only miss a third given name like August's.

Oh but Sienna has the double last name, so it all evens out ?

 

[Fijiro]

Oddly enough - my dad is convinced that the Queen now has 2 great grand daughters called Sienna. He has been calling Savanna, Sienna, for years.

Savanna and Sienna are kind of close in spelling & pronunciation, so I can see how your Dad mixed them up. But when I read your post putting those two names together, Sienna Miller and her sister Savannah popped into my head.

 

[duchesschicana]

She Probably didnt want to accidently alinate Wolfie by having the sibilings two different last names just a thought for why the couple didnt use Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor for their child. Maybe she is really proud to have the Mozzi name.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

She Probably didnt want to accidently alinate Wolfie by having the sibilings two different last names just a thought for why the couple didnt use Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor for their child. Maybe she is really proud to have the Mozzi name.

While it is not uncommon in some other Western countries to use the maternal last name, the last name of an ancestor, or perhaps even a made-up last name for a child, in the UK it would be too far a departure from the rigidly patrilineal naming practices of most Britons for any member of the very traditional British royal family to consider those options, I believe (unless the circumstances are exceptional, such as the case of Queen Elizabeth II's children).

However, that does not necessarily suggest that UK law imposes legal restrictions on the British royal family regarding their children's names. Whether members of the Windsor family have the same legal naming rights as private citizens is a controversial issue, as Mbruno said, owing to the royal proclamations of 1917 and 1960 (which is why I wondered about the wording of the name announcement).

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/prince_highness_docs.htm#1960

That said, even if the proclamations are legally enforceable, I think they apply only to the names Windsor and Mountbatten-Windsor - so if Princess Beatrice hypothetically wanted to name her daughter Sienna Miller-Mozzi, I suppose it would be legal.

 

[Alison H]

The vast majority of people in the UK give a child the father's surname, unless the father and mother aren't together. A few people use a double-barrelled name, but most don't. Some use the mother's name alone, but that's very, very rare if the parents are married. I don't think there was ever any question of the baby having any surname other than Mapelli Mozzi, and I don't think they meant anything at all by including it in the announcement - it's just fairly standard wording.

 

[Alison H]

Oddly enough - my dad is convinced that the Queen now has 2 great grand daughters called Sienna. He has been calling Savanna, Sienna, for years.

That's the Miller sisters again! Sienna and Savannah. I think they popularised both names amongst the in crowd.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The vast majority of people in the UK give a child the father's surname, unless the father and mother aren't together. A few people use a double-barrelled name, but most don't. Some use the mother's name alone, but that's very, very rare if the parents are married. I don't think there was ever any question of the baby having any surname other than Mapelli Mozzi,

Indeed. That is the point I was making.

and I don't think they meant anything at all by including it in the announcement - it's just fairly standard wording.

So, the "standard" laws apply to the Mapelli Mozzis and the Privy Council declaration of 1960 does not impose any additional restrictions on them?

 

[Osipi]

With exception of the Cambridges whose children are of course closer to the throne, the younger Windsors seem to be moving away from traditional names.

This is my thought too. I love the name Sienna and it flows so nicely with her surname. I have to think they chose the names of their daughter for the sole reason of that they liked it and adding Elizabeth had nothing to do with"royal" or "status" or anything besides being the name of Beatrice's beloved grandmother.

The best part is that Sienna Mapelli-Mozzi will grow up to be her own unique self and actually have the very best of both worlds at her feet. She'll be her own private citizen yet a member of the extended British royal family apart from the monarchy and it's "Firm".

Ahhhhh... babies make me believe there's hope for this planet after all.

 

[Erin9]

Sienna Elizabeth is a lovely name!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Sienna has a pretty pronunciation.

 

[suztav]

Neither Sienna nor August were on my Bingo card!