Princess Ingrid Alexandra's confirmation: August 31, 2019

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY

Well, as you know, the NRF LOVES to celebrate milestones. - And after 3 years of large-scale celebrations, there will be another one in 2019.
Because, according to two serious/reliable royal commentators, the court has started to plan Ingrid's confirmation, which will take place either in May or October nest year.

But how will it be done:
1. Will she be confirmated alone in a televised service in The Palace Chapel with foreign royal guests - and a white-tie gala dinner in the evening, which was the case with Haakon in 1988.
2. Will it happen in a private ceremony, which may take place in Asker Church (close to Skaugum), where Märtha & Marius were confirmated.
If that's done, it will probably be to shield the princess from the media, and to allow her to be confimated with some of her friends.
3. Or maybe they will go for something in the middle.

Perhaps someone here has some thoughts about it?

I (for one) have not reflected about it yet.

But remember, all the traditions from Haakon's Christening in 1973 were followed for Ingrid's in 2004. - So there is reason to believe that something similar would be done in this case as well.

The court has now confirmed to NTB (The Norwegian News Agency) that the confirmation will take place in the autumn 2019, no more information was given.

BTW: You can read whom her foreign godparents are (who will hopefully take the time to attend), a bit about the confirmations of CP Haakon and Märtha - and what TV2's serous/reliable Royal Expert, Kjell Arne Totland, has said about next year's plans here.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY

The court has now confirmed to NTB (The Norwegian News Agency) that the confirmation will take place in the autumn 2019, no more information was given.

BTW: You can read whom her foreign godparents are (who will hopefully take the time to attend), a bit about the confirmations of CP Haakon and Märtha - and what TV2's serous/reliable Royal Expert, Kjell Arne Totland, has said about next year's plans in post 260.

I wouldn't be surprised it this turns out to be a big event. Ingrid Alexandra seems to be able to handle it and the NRF likes to make a clear distinction between the heirs and the others, so why not? And in that way two of her godparents who didn't attend her christening (Frederik & Felipe) can attend an official religious celebration in the life of their goddaughter...

[MARG]

It seems as if Confirmation is a very important milestone in Norway. Seeing photos of (what I imagine was her first) gala dress meant it was marked in an extremely memorable way.

Could someone tell me if that is, in fact, the way it is done in Norway as a whole or merely for the royal family?

[eya]

Princess Ingrid Alexandra will be confirmed in the Palace Chapel at the Royal Palace on Saturday, 31 August 2019.

https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.h...193&sek=113027

https://www.kongehuset.no/artikkel.h...192&sek=112472

[HereditaryPrincess]

Thanks eya for the update. Will be looking forward into seeing the photos. It'll be nice to see Alexandra with her godparents as well as her family.
(I also love the photo the NRF used of Alexandra for the announcement - she's blossoming into a gorgeous young lady!).

[carlota]

Originally Posted by eya

Princess Ingrid Alexandra will be confirmed in the Palace Chapel at the Royal Palace on Saturday, 31 August 2019.

https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.h...193&sek=113027

https://www.kongehuset.no/artikkel.h...192&sek=112472

wow, they really announced that with a lot of anticipation! i wonder who the godparents for the confirmation will be - is it likely the same as the christening ones?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by carlota

wow, they really announced that with a lot of anticipation! i wonder who the godparents for the confirmation will be - is it likely the same as the christening ones?

It are the same godparents you don't geed new ones at a confirmation. Lets hope this time all of them will attend. At her christening both Felipe and Frederike where absent.
It will probably be a big affair as at Haakon and Märtha Louise's confirmations there was also a white tie Gala in the evening.

[W.Y.CII]

Seem that it will be a quite big event! Hope all IA's godparents are able to attend this times. Will they also invite the other counterpart, such as the Dutch or Belgian?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by carlota

wow, they really announced that with a lot of anticipation! i wonder who the godparents for the confirmation will be - is it likely the same as the christening ones?

I understand why it needed to be planned so far in advance and apparently they decided there was little reason not yo announce. Could it be that I-A's friends and classmates will soon be confirmed, so it would be easier for Ingrid-Alexandra thst her confirmation was announced so she could freely talk about it?

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Originally Posted by marg

it seems as if confirmation is a very important milestone in norway. Seeing photos of (what i imagine was her first) gala dress meant it was marked in an extremely memorable way.

Could someone tell me if that is, in fact, the way it is done in norway as a whole or merely for the royal family?

Yes, whether one is confirmed in The Norwegian Church (which is no longer the state-church) or in a humanistic way (which 18% chose to do in 2018), it's celebrated with a big celebratory dinner for the whole family (including grandparents, uncles/aunts, cousins, etc).
And it's VERY common to use bunad (English Wikipedia article - link) if you're female and suit if you're male.

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Originally Posted by eya

princess ingrid alexandra will be confirmed in the palace chapel at the royal palace on saturday, 31 august 2019.

https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.h...193&sek=113027

https://www.kongehuset.no/artikkel.h...192&sek=112472

Thanks eya!

The Royal House article says that ''The Princess is receiving her confirmation instruction with Asker Church congregation'' (covering Asker municipality, where Skaugum is situated), which mean she will prepare & read for the confirmation together with friends and other youngsters, while at the same time being confirmed alone in The Palace Chapel as her father, grandfather and great-grandfather. (The same model that was chosen for the then Prince Haakon.)

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Originally Posted by w.y.cii

seem that it will be a quite big event! Hope all ia's godparents are able to attend this times. Will they also invite the other counterpart, such as the dutch or belgian?

I don't' know, but The CP-Couple are personal friends with The Dutch Regent-Couple (and Queen Máxima is godmother to Sverre), so I wouldn't be surprised if they are invited and therefore take the time to attend.
Nor would I be surprised by the attendance of two of The Crown Prince's godparents, QMII and KCXVIG (probably accompanied by Queen Silvia). - And that's due to:
1. The closeness between The Scandinavian Royal Houses.
2. The then CP Harald's godmother, Queen Ingrid, attended the confirmation of the then Prince Haakon in 1988 (along with her daughter and son-in-law).



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Originally Posted by somebody

i understand why it needed to be planned so far in advance and apparently they decided there was little reason not yo announce. Could it be that i-a's friends and classmates will soon be confirmed, so it would be easier for ingrid-alexandra thst her confirmation was announced so she could freely talk about it?

Hmm, most likely to avoid media speculation and calls from tiresome reporters, I think.

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And then to the dinner. - Well, I see only three alternatives:

1. A white-tie dinner at The Royal Palace, hosted by The Regent-Couple, which the court always refers to as a ''gallamiddag'' (gala-dinner).
(The case with Princess Märtha Louise and the then Prince Haakon - and which is believed by TV2's serous/reliable Royal Expert, Kjell Arne Totland, to be the case with Princess Ingrid Alexandra.)
2. A black-tie dinner at The Royal Palace, hosted by The Regent-Couple, which the court always refers to as either ''smokingmiddag or bankett'' (smoking-dinner or banquet).
(The case with Princesses Ragnhild/Astrid and the then Prince Harald.)
3. A Black-tie dinner at Skaugum.

[Muhler]

Is it expected of the NRF, and as such also Ingrid, that they are Christian?
Or at least adhere to the Christian rituals and attend church at Christian holy days?

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Yes! And that despite the fact that after a constitutional amendment of May 21st, 2012, The Church of Norway is self-governed with regard to doctrinal issues and appointment of clergy - and the monarch is no longer its head.

But when The King was asked by the then Minister of Culture and Church Affairs from the Labour Party, Trond Giske, in 2008 on whether he had an opinion of how the constitutional changes (regarding the Church) should affect the monarch, HM (with the support of CP Haakon) replied that he wanted parts of Article 4 in the Constitution to be maintained. - And although a majority of MPs in The Storting disagreed with him, none of them dared to go against The King, due to his popularity.

So, what happened? Well, Article 4 was changed from this: ''The King shall at all times profess the Evangelical-Lutheran religion, and uphold and protect the same.''

To this: ''The King shall at all times profess the Evangelical-Lutheran religion.''

Which again means that those in line to the throne, in practice, have no choice but to still do the same. I.e. being a member of the church and being christened/confirmed in the church.

BTW: The church and state were first separated, when an act approved in 2016 created the Church of Norway as an independent legal entity, which became effective from January 1st, 2017 (this had no effect on Article 4).

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY

Yes! And that despite the fact that after a constitutional amendment of May 21st, 2012, The Church of Norway is self-governed with regard to doctrinal issues and appointment of clergy - and the monarch is no longer its head.

But when The King was asked by the then Minister of Culture and Church Affairs from the Labour Party, Trond Giske, in 2008 on whether he had an opinion of how the constitutional changes (regarding the Church) should affect the monarch, HM (with the support of CP Haakon) replied that he wanted parts of Article 4 in the Constitution to be maintained. - And although a majority of MPs in The Storting disagreed with him, none of them dared to go against The King, due to his popularity.

That is interesting, that Crown Prince Haakon publicly supported his father in regard to his request (is Haakon similarly religious?) and that the King was asked to make his opinion known by a government minister (who must have known the approximate answer he could expect from King Harald. Perhaps those in the government who favored maintaining Article 4 wanted the agreement of the popular king).

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY

So, what happened? Well, Article 4 was changed from this: ''The King shall at all times profess the Evangelical-Lutheran religion, and uphold and protect the same.''

To this: ''The King shall at all times profess the Evangelical-Lutheran religion.''

Which again means that those in line to the throne, in practice, have no choice but to still do the same. I.e. being a member of the church and being christened/confirmed in the church.

BTW: The church and state were first separated, when an act approved in 2016 created the Church of Norway as an independent legal entity, which became effective from January 1st, 2017 (this had no effect on Article 4).

Originally Posted by Muhler

Is it expected of the NRF, and as such also Ingrid, that they are Christian?
Or at least adhere to the Christian rituals and attend church at Christian holy days?

As an addition to Royal Norway's reply, one of the complaints concerning Princess Märtha Louise's angel teachings was that it did not conform to the constitution as far as the King's religion was concerned.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

As an addition to Royal Norway's reply, one of the complaints concerning Princess Märtha Louise's angel teachings was that it did not conform to the constitution as far as the King's religion was concerned.

As far as I understand, Märtha Louise is still a member of the Lutheran church, would that qualify as 'professing the Evangelical-Lutheran religion'? Would she need to give up all 'angel stuff' if she was ever called to the throne but other than that be fine or can she even keep it as long as she is also a member of the Lutheran church?

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY

Yes, whether one is confirmed in The Norwegian Church (which is no longer the state-church) or in a humanistic way (which 18% chose to do in 2018), it's celebrated with a big celebratory dinner for the whole family (including grandparents, uncles/aunts, cousins, etc)

What would a humanistic way look like? Do they affirm their believe in humanish? And are they admitted to the Humanistic society? Both seem far"-fetched but that would be a humanistic equivalent imo, so wonder what it really is. Just some kind of celebration of reaching a certain age (like the quincenera in Latin America)? Is there any preparation involved (comparable to a confirmation in the church)?

[ashelen]

Originally Posted by Somebody

What would a humanistic way look like? Do they affirm their believe in humanish? And are they admitted to the Humanistic society? Both seem far"-fetched but that would be a humanistic equivalent imo, so wonder what it really is. Just some kind of celebration of reaching a certain age (like the quincenera in Latin America)? Is there any preparation involved (comparable to a confirmation in the church)?

Yes do you have to go to church and study the bible, In the Danish church I went it was for 2 years the course. I think it is the party the same meaning as the quincianera but without all the big expense , the quincianera is like a wedding so pompous.

[JR76]

It was supposedly the same in Sweden when church and state got (almost) separated in 2000 - the King made his will known that he wanted to keep the provisions in the Constitution about the Royal family having to be members of the Church of Sweden. I'm not sure if he's very religious, although his wife is, or it is more a question of tradition since he's quite conservative in these matters.
I've been to several Danish nonfirmations where kids who don't want a religious ceremony instead just have a big party.

[akina21]

Originally Posted by Somebody

What would a humanistic way look like? Do they affirm their believe in humanish? And are they admitted to the Humanistic society? Both seem far"-fetched but that would be a humanistic equivalent imo, so wonder what it really is. Just some kind of celebration of reaching a certain age (like the quincenera in Latin America)? Is there any preparation involved (comparable to a confirmation in the church)?

I was confirmed in Germany after 2 years of taking classes, and attending church regularly . I was almost 15 . All family was invited and it was a big occasion ( more important for me was the 1500 then DM in cash ) In a way it's a coming of age sort of marker but very much a church thing and I think the humanistic event was sort of invented to give young people a similar stepping stone to adulthood .

[Muhler]

I must confess I've never heard about a humanist confirmation before.

Who do a humanist confirmation? Those who are unsure about their Christian affiliation, but believe in higher purpose of life, or a higher being being in a kind of overall control, or reincarnation and/or a sort of karma? Or...
I.e. something that would not appeal to a full Christian nor an atheist, who would likely be more interested in a nonfirmation.

[Heavs]

Some friends of mine chose to have a "humanist name Day" celebration for their baby (to her mother's consternation), which was like a Christening with some "welcome to the world" speeches and a party.

I imagine that a "humanist confirmation" would be the same thing for teens, basically a big party. Maybe with some promises to be a responsible/ethical human being if you're so inclined. Not sure why they'd want to call it a confirmation though.

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

That is interesting, that Crown Prince Haakon publicly supported his father in regard to his request (is Haakon similarly religious?) and that the King was asked to make his opinion known by a government minister (who must have known the approximate answer he could expect from King Harald. Perhaps those in the government who favored maintaining Article 4 wanted the agreement of the popular king).

Not publicly, but The King said this in a TV-interview in connection with his Silver Jubilee in 2016:

Q. Hvordan er det å velge for andre enn seg selv?

A. ''Det har blitt gjort så mye for meg, så det er da ikke noe problem,'' ler kongen.

''Nei, jeg snakket jo med dem. Kronprinsen sa at det ikke var noe problem for dem.''

Translated to:
Q. How is it to choose for others than yourself?

A. ''It has been done so much for me, so that is not a problem,'' laughs the King.

''No, I was talking to them. The Crown Prince said it was not a problem for them.''
(And yes, he concluded both sentences with the word ''them,'' so no wrongdoing on my part.)


Whether CP Haakon is ''religious'' is not known, I think. - Although CP MM is ''personlig kristen'' (personal Christian) and has previously said that her ''faith means very much'' to her.


Well, Culture/Church Minister Giske had (according to himself) several private meetings with The King, to inform him about the changes in the constitution (regarding the church).
And there was agreement between the then three government parties. I.e. The Labour Party and The Socialist Left Party (which both wanted to give the monarch total religious freedom) and The Centre Party (which favored maintaining Article 4) to consult him.

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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

As an addition to Royal Norway's reply, one of the complaints concerning Princess Märtha Louise's angel teachings was that it did not conform to the constitution as far as the King's religion was concerned.

Yes, the main criticism from several bishops/theologians was that her ''talk with angels and dead-people broke with Evangelical-Lutheran teachings.''
Although the chance of her becoming regent if something were to happen to The Crown Prince, is just getting tinier and tinier (a more reassuring word than ''smaller,'' I think), which have lead to come calls from within the church that she should relinquish her membership.



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Originally Posted by Somebody

As far as I understand, Märtha Louise is still a member of the Lutheran church, would that qualify as 'professing the Evangelical-Lutheran religion'? Would she need to give up all 'angel stuff' if she was ever called to the throne but other than that be fine or can she even keep it as long as she is also a member of the Lutheran church?

Your first question: Yes!
Your second question: Well, as you can read in post 12, the monarch doesn't longer have to uphold and protect the Evangelical-Lutheran religion. - Which again means that were she ''ever called to the throne'' (god help us), no, she wouldn't need to give up her ''angel-stuff'' (although it would've made her a VERY unpopular Queen regnant or regent, if she hadn't).
And to be a bit cynical, she would NEVER ever have been in the angel-business if she had received an apanage.

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Originally Posted by Somebody

What would a humanistic way look like? Do they affirm their believe in humanish? And are they admitted to the Humanistic society? Both seem far"-fetched but that would be a humanistic equivalent imo, so wonder what it really is. Just some kind of celebration of reaching a certain age (like the quincenera in Latin America)? Is there any preparation involved (comparable to a confirmation in the church)?

Short but very informative explanation in English from The Norwegian Humanist Association, just scroll down to the confirmation part and read (link).



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Originally Posted by JR76

It was supposedly the same in Sweden when church and state got (almost) separated in 2000 - the King made his will known that he wanted to keep the provisions in the Constitution about the Royal family having to be members of the Church of Sweden. I'm not sure if he's very religious, although his wife is, or it is more a question of tradition since he's quite conservative in these matters.
I've been to several Danish nonfirmations where kids who don't want a religious ceremony instead just have a big party.

King Harald, OTOH, has said that he defines himself as a Christian, although he has also been praised for his openness and understanding of other religions.