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  #1361  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
Yeah that bit stood out and shows that it was down right trouble making lies they told Oprah Winfrey ie they are acknowledging now that Archie wasn't due to be a prince until Charles became King but they told Winfrey he wasn't made one at birth because of racism.
Harry and Meghan and Oprah are doing their utmost to help people forget the detail of the Oprah interview and brush the rest of it off as misunderstanding.
There was no accusation of racist. Harry completely left Meghan's suicidal and mental health needs out of his book - she was the mental Madonna in a yoga pose standing strong for him.
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  #1362  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Maybe the Earl and Countess of Wessex should start calling themselves the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh- maybe then that will force a response from King Charles. :-p
There is a big difference however.

The 1917 Letters Patent are clear and everyone who knows anything about the existing rules about who is and who isn't a Prince or Princess knows that under those rules Archie and Lilibet have been a Prince and Princess since 8th September, 2022 when they became male line grandchildren of a Sovereign of the UK. All that has happened is that Lilibet has had her correct title used and now the British monarchy website has been updated to reflect the situation that has been the case for six months now.

There are no Letters Patent or other forms of approval for Edward and Sophie to start using the Edinburgh title.
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  #1363  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:32 AM
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Archie and Lilibet are now officially Princes of Sussex!
The website of the British Royal House appears updated from this Thursday with the titles.

https://www.royal.uk/succession
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  #1364  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
why not ? And call their children Prince and Princess - it is there birthright.
If agreements made with HM the Queen are not longer valid then why not?

Fergie can speak her mind. Harry can run around with his cocaine. Everyone can enter into any business venture they so desire - with title and royal explotation allowed.
Your right about the Wessexes. It's being said it was privately discussed after the Queen died that they would be prince/princess and that's why it's happening. Good grief! In the case of the Duke of Edinburgh title it wasn't only privately discussed, a formal announcement was made in the name of the Queen, Philip AND Charles that Edward would get this title on his parents death. Can you imagine how this must make Edward and Sophie feel today? They are loyal and hardworking and get ignored, the Sussexes leave the family in the lurch and embark on an international hatchet job on them and get everything they want. I'm frankly disgusted with Harry AND Charles at this point.
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  #1365  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:39 AM
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There was no mention of WHEN Charles would honour that agreement though. It is only 6 months so it is possible it will happen in time but both men are probably still grieving for their parents and that change would be a defining moment of total acceptance that they are gone.

For some of us that defining moment could be when we move something, sell the house or whatever but for them it could be the passing of that title.
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  #1366  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by suztav View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong .... but, only royal family members who are members of the COE can be in the line of succession? Lilibet was baptized into the Episcopal church. Does it matter?
Any Protestants - I think excluding Unitarians - can be in the line of succession, and the Episcopalian church is in communion with the Church of England anyway: it's part of the worldwide Church of England communion. So there's no problem.
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  #1367  
Old 03-09-2023, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There was no mention of WHEN Charles would honour that agreement though. It is only 6 months so it is possible it will happen in time but both men are probably still grieving for their parents and that change would be a defining moment of total acceptance that they are gone.

For some of us that defining moment could be when we move something, sell the house or whatever but for them it could be the passing of that title.
William was made Prince of Wales almost instantly and they are in the process of planning a huge coronation so I'm pretty sure it has sunk in that the Queen is gone. I find it hard to accept that everyone else is embracing a new status but Edward can't get DOE yet because it's too painful. I also think KC should be careful how he treats Edward and Sophie. There are so few senior working royals now and he needs them and if they start to feel undervalued and ignored they might not be so willing to support him going forward.
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  #1368  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:11 AM
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What are they going to do?
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  #1369  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
William was made Prince of Wales almost instantly and they are in the process of planning a huge coronation so I'm pretty sure it has sunk in that the Queen is gone. I find it hard to accept that everyone else is embracing a new status but Edward can't get DOE yet because it's too painful. I also think KC should be careful how he treats Edward and Sophie. There are so few senior working royals now and he needs them and if they start to feel undervalued and ignored they might not be so willing to support him going forward.
Charles had a very good reason to make William PoW: to get rid of that title, to not let it linger on him.

Foe the DoE title, it will be either on Edward’s birthday or at the coronation, if it’s going to be.
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  #1370  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:25 AM
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What are they going to do?
Exactly. Iím confused by what exactly you expect Sophie and Edward to do? Honestly their situation is probably why Harry wanted to make sure his kids had a real choice. Itís much easier to stop using the title than to start.

People compare the situation to Louise but you think even if she wanted to (and who knows her true feelings) that she was just going to start calling hers a princess after 18 years? I know Sophie said if was her choice, but the choice was made before she was born.

Likewise with giving the Wessexes lower titles. Clearly there was a regret in doing that and now they are in limbo about being ďpromotedĒ or whatever. Itís all so unnecessary messy.
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  #1371  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:40 AM
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The Princess Royal, the Glouchester and Kents as well the the Wessex are not blind to a situation they have more visability then we do. Cracks will show and Charles family cannot be upheld by the Wales. Espeicaly if the Susses's continue witht heir current plans.
The Wessex's can do nothing - and that is what make it worse. Charles knows that. So treat the people who can do nothing badly and give way to the moaning of the drug addict across the pond to save face.
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  #1372  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Exactly. Iím confused by what exactly you expect Sophie and Edward to do? Honestly their situation is probably why Harry wanted to make sure his kids had a real choice. Itís much easier to stop using the title than to start.

People compare the situation to Louise but you think even if she wanted to (and who knows her true feelings) that she was just going to start calling hers a princess after 18 years? I know Sophie said if was her choice, but the choice was made before she was born.

Likewise with giving the Wessexes lower titles. Clearly there was a regret in doing that and now they are in limbo about being ďpromotedĒ or whatever. Itís all so unnecessary messy.
I dotn expect them to do anything. ANd if Louise DOES want to be known as Princess, it seems that she can do so, if she wants it. Its not likely she will IMO she seems to be happy enough with her status as it is at present, She does not need to become Pss Louise.
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  #1373  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
The Princess Royal, the Glouchester and Kents as well the the Wessex are not blind to a situation they have more visability then we do. Cracks will show and Charles family cannot be upheld by the Wales. Espeicaly if the Susses's continue witht heir current plans.
The Wessex's can do nothing - and that is what make it worse. Charles knows that. So treat the people who can do nothing badly and give way to the moaning of the drug addict across the pond to save face.
what are you saying? I suppose you mean Harry, but I can't quite see how anyone is giivng way to him
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  #1374  
Old 03-09-2023, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dotn expect them to do anything. ANd if Louise DOES want to be known as Princess, it seems that she can do so, if she wants it. Its not likely she will IMO she seems to be happy enough with her status as it is at present, She does not need to become Pss Louise.
I mean I hope she is. She might be. That said we donít know how she might actually feel and they will never reveal it. But the likelihood she would is slim to none because itís just awkward. But yes I agree after all this time she doesnít need to become Princess Louise. Some would also argue her parents donít need to be the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh either. We shall see how it all plays out.
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  #1375  
Old 03-09-2023, 07:16 AM
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It's all vague anyway. Saying Archie and Lilibet don't need to 'use' the titles eventually dosnt really mean anything. B and E don't walk around with people calling them anything other than their names but they've never felt the need to relinquish their titles officially as it gives them status. I can’t see A and L ever doing it either in adulthood for the same reason. They won't float around being called Sir and Ma'am but I bet they won't get rid of them in the same way their parents hold onto the Sussex title. It's a shame royal titles are going down this road as in the past they came with an obligation to work for your country, now it seems to be a case of most wanting to be 'non-working royals' which translates as "we'll take the perks thanks but stuff doing engagements". That's why Harry has a cheek saying it's their birthright as they are being brought up in America as private citizens and will be giving nothing back to Britain as members of the royal family.
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  #1376  
Old 03-09-2023, 07:21 AM
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The Sussexes just come across as desperate to stay relevant. Harry has just spent a Netflix documentary and the better part of an autobiography outlining how horrendous it was for him to be a royal. And yet here we are with him snatching up the titles for his offspring.

I think the Palace has played a blinder here. The Sussexes have complained non stop but then want the titles too? Everyone sees them now for what they really are.
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  #1377  
Old 03-09-2023, 07:25 AM
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The Sussexes just come across as desperate to stay relevant. Harry has just spent a Netflix documentary and the better part of an autobiography outlining how horrendous it was for him to be a royal. And yet here we are with him snatching up the titles for his offspring.

I think the Palace has played a blinder here. The Sussexes have complained non stop but then want the titles too? Everyone sees them now for what they really are.
I agree, they have discredited themselves utterly in one fell swoop. No one will take their criticisms of the BRF seriously again. They may have thought they were annoying Charles and William with this but it's actually made them ridiculous.
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  #1378  
Old 03-09-2023, 07:25 AM
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I for one am very disappointed at how this has played out. Game, Set, Match to The Sussex's. Pretty amazing coup for a Couple that railed against a "Hierarchical System" they said. But they want their children to get the perks. Why ?

Got to hand it to them, after 3 years of having accused the Royal Family of being racists, and unfeeling liars ( Charles) and violent bullies (William) they won their most desired prize. The Titles. For American based and raised Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet. The first "Prince Archie" in history.

They brazenly lobbied against an "Institution", The Monarchy, that they felt greatly did them wrong, and sidelined them.

That sorely needed The Sussex's progressive new overhaul and outlook. When that got denied, they then let no opportunity pass to slam The Firm as "out of touch" . And question the fitness of those in charge, apart from The Queen, but even She was insulted as having inadvertently passed on "generational pain".

Even insulted The British Public too. An ingrained Colonialism mindset and unconscious bias narratives were alleged that they harbored.

Non stop interviews, Books, Podcasts and a Docu-series not withstanding, The Sussex's threw out accusation after accusation and never stopped airing their perceived grievances. I think their campaign against The Firm did resonate too. How much ? We shall see.

They didn't and don't care how much they demean and diminish the work and reputation of The Royal Family. Why would they ? They are laughing ALL the way to The Bank with multi million dollar deals. They kept their Royal Titles ( for publicity and to monetize) and have now secured Royal Titles for their Children. They have lost nothing and are setting up their children in this Montecito " rival court" in America.

Down the line, People Magazine will have glossy pictures and gushing Stories of Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet. I also forsee The California Royals doing Family Events too. Charities and other initiatives, just wait. Just like their counterparts in the UK.

Charles could have easily punted and said the situation was "in review" due to his long-standing aims of downsizing, AND as The Sussex Family was, as he previously said, building a life overseas. Who could find fault with that ? Why didn't he ?

But he didn't. He capitulated and gave Harry and Meghan exactly what they wanted to set up their children as rivals to The Wales children down the line.
Does The British Monarchy REALLY want potentially rogue Royals using Titles down the line in America ? What if they get into trouble ? Doesn't Charles see how it diminishes The British Royal Family's prestige ? Did ANYONE think ahead on this ?

I think it was a big mistake that will come back to haunt them. And it won't stop the hypocrite Sussex's one bit from speaking out on anything or anybody they want.

This action has only emboldened them.
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  #1379  
Old 03-09-2023, 07:26 AM
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Thanks to everyone who answered my COE/Episcopalian question.
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  #1380  
Old 03-09-2023, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There was no mention of WHEN Charles would honour that agreement though. It is only 6 months so it is possible it will happen in time but both men are probably still grieving for their parents and that change would be a defining moment of total acceptance that they are gone.

For some of us that defining moment could be when we move something, sell the house or whatever but for them it could be the passing of that title.
Technically, the announced agreement does include a "when", specifically "when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the throne". That of course happened on September 8, 2022 when Queen Elizabeth II died.
The Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of Wales have also agreed that The Prince Edward should be given the Dukedom of Edinburgh in due course, when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140201...ard/40309.html


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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Remember that the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish royal families along with many German royals are also in the line of succession and they are all Lutheran.
While I fully agree with you that Lutherans qualify, I don't think any British authority has issued a legal opinion on the extended line of succession to the British throne.

The Swedish royals are excluded not on religious grounds, but because of the Royal Marriages Act of 1772 (for those interested, there is an extensive discussion of this in the British line of succession thread).


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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
They haven't won anything or backed anybody into a corner, the children had the titles automatically the day their grandfather became king.

Something else sorted before the Coronation, I think our Charles is a lot more willey than we give him credit for.
It is not quite that simple. As was discussed in the press (and on TRF) at the time, the line of succession on the official website was updated very quickly after Elizabeth II's death with the new titles of the Wales family, but the titles of Archie and Lilibet were not updated at the same time. If the King's opinion had been simply "the children had the titles automatically the day their grandfather became king", there is no reason he would not have had the Sussex titles updated at the same time as the Wales titles.
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