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  #721  
Old 03-05-2021, 04:38 PM
Serene Highness
 
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This is the problem at a lot of organisations. If it's a big organisation with several layers of management and the involvement of a trade union, bullying complaints will probably be dealt with. If it's a small organisation and the alleged bully is the boss, not much is likely to happen. Seen that too many times :-( .

I don't think this is about culture or nationality. Upsetting someone to the point where they're in tears and shaking is not acceptable whether you're from Britain, America or anywhere else.

(I still use the term Mitteleuropa. I know no-one else does, but it makes me think of Einspanners, lovely cake, strudel and beautiful baroque buildings, and I like it!)
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  #722  
Old 03-05-2021, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
This is the problem at a lot of organisations. If it's a big organisation with several layers of management and the involvement of a trade union, bullying complaints will probably be dealt with. If it's a small organisation and the alleged bully is the boss, not much is likely to happen. Seen that too many times :-( .

I don't think this is about culture or nationality. Upsetting someone to the point where they're in tears and shaking is not acceptable whether you're from Britain, America or anywhere else.

(I still use the term Mitteleuropa. I know no-one else does, but it makes me think of Einspanners, lovely cake, strudel and beautiful baroque buildings, and I like it!)
Lots of bosses are bullies and in spite of "anti bullying policies".... but when a couple claim to be forward thinking, kindly, radical minded people.. you kind of hope they wont be difficult bosses or bullies..
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  #723  
Old 03-05-2021, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I'm not sure that the investigation into the bullying allegations is an investigation of Meghan and Harry. It is more likely an investigation into how these complaints were handled by senior staff.
Yes, as someone who has conducted internal investigations, I think the process is causing confusion.

If the employer had rules and/or legal obligations to investigate certain behavior, regardless of whether the wrong behavior actually occurred, there would still be a serious violation for breaking these rules.

The primary investigation is often whether the rules and policies were followed. There may eventually be an internal finding of fact as to whether the offensive behavior did occur, or not. It depends on many factors and legal requirements. Many investigations do not involve the accused wrongdoer in the investigation.
  #724  
Old 03-05-2021, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
It was said that the ‘grey men’ were well aware of the bullying that so traumatized some of the staffers, and that no action was taken to report it further, to the HR Dignity of Work department.

If the Sussex behavior so ‘destroyed’ some of their aides, then Senior Staff should have reported it. Why didn’t they? Maybe these older, more worldly employees were less likely to identify the ordinary conflicts of a busy office as anything other than the usual back and forth of daily work life. These aides were described as ‘traumatized’ and ‘broken’.

Maybe it didn’t look that way to those who should have taken it to a higher level.
I’m inclined to think this situation has been dramatized and exaggerated by some who waited years to bring it up.

Most of us have worked in situations where the “boss” upset us; but we let it go and kept on working.
My understanding is that it was a Kensington Palace senior staffer, Jason Knauf, who reported his concerns to another Kensington Palace senior staffer Simon Case. It ultimately did get routed to a high ranking HR/Dignity at Work staffer based at Clarence House.
  #725  
Old 03-05-2021, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Most of us have worked in situations where the ďbossĒ upset us; but we let it go and kept on working.
Sadly, it's not always as simple as 'upset us'. I was bullied to the extent I had to take 6 weeks off work on stress leave, then, when nothing really changed (despite investigations and assurances that it would) I had to leave the job.

I obviously have no idea what the truth of this H&M situation is, but I know for a fact that workplace bullying can cause PTSD-like symptoms. I'm still dealing with the after-effects of what I went through, SEVEN years on. It's not always as simple as getting up and walking it off.
  #726  
Old 03-05-2021, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I'm not sure that the investigation into the bullying allegations is an investigation of Meghan and Harry. It is more likely an investigation into how these complaints were handled by senior staff. It's not like Meghan and Harry would have been fired - he is the grandson of the Queen. However, the palace may have guidelines on how to handle complaints about the family members and the issue is whether they were followed.

If it were true, and we don't know that it is, I imagine that if complaints about Harry and Meghan persisted and senior staff couldn't deal with it, the complaints would have been brought to Prince Charles's attention. If he decided not to intervene or the intervention was unsuccessful, there is not a lot that could have been done. I suspect they would be very careful about who would be assigned to work with Meghan and Harry (some people can withstand negative treatment) Some of this is the perils of working for a family owned company or working for a bad boss who owns the company. People have to make choices about their careers.

I don't think they necessarily have guidelines on family members. Knauf wrote in his e-mail that they have anti-bullying guidelines but how to deal with them when it is a member of the royal family who is the bully? So apparently there are no guidelines on that, and he believed that nothing would be done.

I'm sure that was often the case in the past with royal families, but I don't think that's always acceptable today. After all, Maria Theresa was relieved of most of her duties, told that it was not her place to supervise staff and now essentially lives in exile after an independent investigation proved that employees had been bullied.

I'm not saying that this would happen in Britain and obviously Meghan & Harry have already left, but I do think that if there is significant public pressure, bullying claims would probably need to be investigated and consequences drawn in the British or any of the European Royal Families.

They are no longer untouchable in this sense either. As long as bullying allegations are not public knowledge, the BRF or another RF might get away with not doing much about it, but once they are it's a different story. And now that these allegations are public, the BRF is forced to investigate them, but will also need to be much more careful not to be accused of bullying in the future. Firmer guidelines will need to be established and adhered to. They really can't afford to do anything else.
  #727  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I agree but one also can't deny that some people will look down at people in higher position than them because they feel they are superior. Like women in a all male space.... or POC positions of power. We have seen incidents all last year where people accused people of things and weaponized parts of themselves only to be discovered it was false.
We also can't deny that personality is a factor and that some people look down on them because of origin (lower class than they see themselves), being deeming unsuitable as the wife of a member of the Royal family by reason of education, character, career, culture or nationality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
In other news... The Mail on Sunday has been ordered to post a statement/apology on their front page in the same front size as their articles about the letter. It has to run for a week.

https://twitter.com/mwolferobinson/s...41896614232072
It's a damnable shame that such a ruling isn't the baseline norm . . . . . there are just so many deserving cases out there.
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  #728  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:26 PM
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The Britainís Charity Commission is investigating Sussex Royal for the second time. It first look into the Sussex Royal (Charity Foundation) in July last year after Republic asked to examine the nearly £300,000. This time the Commission is investigating how the charity foundation was run.

Claire Newell, Katherine Rushton, Victoria Ward and Camilla Tominey have written in both The Telegraph (UK) and Sydney Morning Herald (Australia). This article in the SMH is part of the five articles one can read for free, whilst in The Telegraph is completely on paywall.

Exclusive: Charity Commission reviewing Harry and Meghan's Sussex Royal organisation
Telegraph understands watchdog is examining how charity, shut down last July following couple's move to US, was run
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...box=1614980887

UK watchdog investigating Sussex Royal, Harry and Meghanís charity
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...06-p578ch.html

There was another Telegraph article on the conflict between Palace staff and the Sussexes in 2018-2019, released about the same time as the above Charity Investigation story. It was very comprehensive with details on allegation behind palace gates from royal sources. Again, these rumours are nothing new, I have encountered them from tabloids, but choose not to believe them (even now, I'm still having scepticism). I managed to find an archived website that capture the whole telegraph article.
https://archive.ph/jeOHZ

'She wanted drama': The inside story of the rift between Harry and Meghan and The Firm
As the Sussexes give their tell-all Oprah Winfrey interview, royal insiders reveal the 'other side of the story'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...y-meghan-firm/
  #729  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:37 PM
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Meghan's co-star on Suits, whose name I cannot remember, has just Tweeted that the other members of The Royal Family are not "in the same league" as Meghan.

Indeed Her Majesty The Queen who has served selflessly for some seventy years without a thought to herself, not in the same league as Meghan.

His Royal Highness Prince Prince Philip, a veteran of the Second World War in service to the United Kingdom, himself an immigrant mocked and vilified in a country not his own where he was not wanted by the establishment but these same seventy years a silent and stalwart supporter to his wife the monarch, not in her league.

Prince Charles, among the leading quiet supporters of modernization and change in Great Britain and a champion of youth and the homeless, not in her league.

The Duchess of Cambridge, from a teenager the never-ending victim of press harassment and bullying along with her family, never the "right or privilege" of a word of complaint, an international icon of the United Kingdom who works behind the scenes on behalf of mothers and for the improvement of mental health, not to be thought of in the same league.

This has become embarrassing and I can only think maybe they don't actually mean to support her and are secretly stabbing her in the back because it cannot be a serious thought.

This is not to mention that when a victim has come forth to speak of the abuse they suffered (as is the case where these people have come to say they were bullied) responding to say "well this person did not bully me!" is a low form of victim shaming and these people need to be called out for it forthwith.
  #730  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
Meghan's co-star on Suits, whose name I cannot remember, has just Tweeted that the other members of The Royal Family are not "in the same league" as Meghan.

Indeed Her Majesty The Queen who has served selflessly for some seventy years without a thought to herself, not in the same league as Meghan.

His Royal Highness Prince Prince Philip, a veteran of the Second World War in service to the United Kingdom, himself an immigrant mocked and vilified in a country not his own where he was not wanted by the establishment but these same seventy years a silent and stalwart supporter to his wife the monarch, not in her league.

Prince Charles, among the leading quiet supporters of modernization and change in Great Britain and a champion of youth and the homeless, not in her league.

The Duchess of Cambridge, from a teenager the never-ending victim of press harassment and bullying along with her family, never the "right or privilege" of a word of complaint, an international icon of the United Kingdom who works behind the scenes on behalf of mothers and for the improvement of mental health, not to be thought of in the same league.

This has become embarrassing and I can only think maybe they don't actually mean to support her and are secretly stabbing her in the back because it cannot be a serious thought.

This is not to mention that when a victim has come forth to speak of the abuse they suffered (as is the case where these people have come to say they were bullied) responding to say "well this person did not bully me!" is a low form of victim shaming and these people need to be called out for it forthwith.
Here is a link to his rant on Twitter.

Is he 100% sure that Harry and Meghan's baby is 'the newest member' of the Royal Family - whom he/she might grow up not knowing very well given the actions of his/her parents (although they seem quite forgiving given how much they keep emphasizing them being beloved family members while everything they stand for is torn apart or dismissed by H&M) - and not Mike and Zara's?

Good to know for the BRF that they hosted someone less than 3 years ago for the wedding of their family member and his bride who thinks that everything they represent is:
Quote:
IMO, this newest chapter and it’s timing is just another stunning example of the shamelessness of a institution that has outlived its relevance, is way overdrawn on credibility and apparently bankrupt of decency.
Makes you wonder whether 'his friend' agrees with his assessment.

When can we expect him to start campaigning for Canada to become a republic?
  #731  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:52 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
Meghan's co-star on Suits, whose name I cannot remember, has just Tweeted that the other members of The Royal Family are not "in the same league" as Meghan.

Indeed Her Majesty The Queen who has served selflessly for some seventy years without a thought to herself, not in the same league as Meghan.

His Royal Highness Prince Prince Philip, a veteran of the Second World War in service to the United Kingdom, himself an immigrant mocked and vilified in a country not his own where he was not wanted by the establishment but these same seventy years a silent and stalwart supporter to his wife the monarch, not in her league.

Prince Charles, among the leading quiet supporters of modernization and change in Great Britain and a champion of youth and the homeless, not in her league.

The Duchess of Cambridge, from a teenager the never-ending victim of press harassment and bullying along with her family, never the "right or privilege" of a word of complaint, an international icon of the United Kingdom who works behind the scenes on behalf of mothers and for the improvement of mental health, not to be thought of in the same league.

This has become embarrassing and I can only think maybe they don't actually mean to support her and are secretly stabbing her in the back because it cannot be a serious thought.

This is not to mention that when a victim has come forth to speak of the abuse they suffered (as is the case where these people have come to say they were bullied) responding to say "well this person did not bully me!" is a low form of victim shaming and these people need to be called out for it forthwith.
Very well said. There are some royal watchers hoping The Queen and Royal Family could put this conflict/drama surrounding the Sussexes behind and look forward to Platinum Jubilee next year.
https://twitter.com/RoyalArjan/statu...22176955600897

Without going off-topic Omid Scobie (Representative or even "Mouthpiece" for the Sussexes) got himself trouble for the past few days, before he appeared on ITV's Good Morning Britain with Kate Garraway and Ben Shephard.
  #732  
Old 03-05-2021, 08:14 PM
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 2: December 2020-

That rant sure was epic. And dramatic.

I think itís amusing that Patrick is tweeting like heís some kind of expert on the institution or members of the family in general. He has no direct knowledge of any of it...much less who is in Meghanís league.

I get that Meghan is his friend, but take a deep breath before hitting post.
  #733  
Old 03-05-2021, 08:14 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
When can we expect him to start campaigning for Canada to become a republic?

He moved from Toronto to LA when he was 19 according to Wikipedia. After having lived in the US for 20 years, I doubt he even votes in Canadian elections, much less is interested in the future of the monarchy in Canada.
  #734  
Old 03-05-2021, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
Very well said. There are some royal watchers hoping The Queen and Royal Family could put this conflict/drama surrounding the Sussexes behind and look forward to Platinum Jubilee next year.
https://twitter.com/RoyalArjan/statu...22176955600897

Without going off-topic Omid Scobie (Representative or even "Mouthpiece" for the Sussexes) got himself trouble for the past few days, before he appeared on ITV's Good Morning Britain with Kate Garraway and Ben Shephard.
And yet on certain pro-Sussex forums theyíre convinced that the British public will be at the gates of BP, pitchforks at the ready, to relive the French Revolution after the interview airs
  #735  
Old 03-05-2021, 08:23 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That rant sure was epic. And dramatic.

I think it’s amusing that Patrick is tweeting like he’s some kind of expert on the institution or members of the family in general. He has no direct knowledge of any of it...much less who is in Meghan’s league.

I get that Meghan is his friend, but take a deep breath before hitting post.
Really dramatic. These are the sugar highs people regret in the morning with the hangover. Very very embarrassing.

Reading Tominey they can all be bullying but seems these two took the cake. I can believe well believe William is difficult...among others. I hope they stamp it

It is all very Macbeth. Even down to the fact that I see their relationship as being powerfully innately physical.

I mean this, the friends it is absolutely ridiculous and what have the palace said. We will opwn an enquiry into this as it makes us look bad as being dreadful.
employers.

I don't use the word vile lightly but all this is vile. I am so glad that the children both Cambridges and Archie are too young to understand this because the damage it would do. Damage that was inflicted on Harry by the vile behaviour of his parents.
  #736  
Old 03-05-2021, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
Really dramatic. These are the sugar highs people regret in the morning with the hangover. Very very embarrassing.

Reading Tominey they can all be bullying but seems these two took the cake. I can believe well believe William is difficult...among others. I hope they stamp it
.

Patrick Adams is an actor- and he writes like one. Itís way over the top. Meghanís friends are putting her on a very high pedestal IMO...that generally doesnít end well.

Thing is: this bullying allegation doesnít reflect well on ANYONE. So I find it interesting that there is a mindset from Meghanís friends that this is somehow deeply unfair and mean to poor put upon Meghan. Itís a bad look period. For all involved. If the palace wanted to drag Meghan through the mud, a better way would be something that only reflects on her. This doesnít.

Besides- Harry and Meghan have decided to-repeatedly at this point- complain publicly. Well- itís not exactly a shock if the other side responds. Harry and Meghan seem to have a habit of making choices- but not accepting gracefully the consequences that go with them. And their friends are of similar mindset best I can tell.

Thereís difficult, and thereís bullying. Very different.
  #737  
Old 03-05-2021, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Patrick Adams is an actor- and he writes like one. Itís way over the top. Meghanís friends are putting her on a very high pedestal IMO...that generally doesnít end well.

Thing is: this bullying allegation doesnít reflect well on ANYONE. So I find it interesting that there is a mindset from Meghanís friends that this is somehow deeply unfair and mean to poor put upon Meghan. Itís a bad look period. For all involved. If the palace wanted to drag Meghan through the mud, a better way would be something that only reflects on her. This doesnít.

Besides- Harry and Meghan have decided to-repeatedly at this point- complain publicly. Well- itís not exactly a shock if the other side responds. Harry and Meghan seem to have a habit of making choices- but not accepting gracefully the consequences that go with them. And their friends are of similar mindset best I can tell.

Thereís difficult, and thereís bullying. Very different.
But thatís what their fans claim, even some on this forum, they want. Harry and Meghan to complain and accuse and everyone else to just sit there and take it.
  #738  
Old 03-05-2021, 09:30 PM
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The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 2: December 2020-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
But thatís what their fans claim, even some on this forum, they want. Harry and Meghan to complain and accuse and everyone else to just sit there and take it.


Agreed. Fans, friends, even some of the media. If you canít take the heat, stay out of the kitchen IMO.

But- I also find it fascinating thereís a mindset- even in some parts of the media- that Iím supposed to just blindly take the Sussexes word for everything. I donít. Why would I?
  #739  
Old 03-05-2021, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I'm not sure that the investigation into the bullying allegations is an investigation of Meghan and Harry. It is more likely an investigation into how these complaints were handled by senior staff. It's not like Meghan and Harry would have been fired - he is the grandson of the Queen. However, the palace may have guidelines on how to handle complaints about the family members and the issue is whether they were followed.

If it were true, and we don't know that it is, I imagine that if complaints about Harry and Meghan persisted and senior staff couldn't deal with it, the complaints would have been brought to Prince Charles's attention. If he decided not to intervene or the intervention was unsuccessful, there is not a lot that could have been done. I suspect they would be very careful about who would be assigned to work with Meghan and Harry (some people can withstand negative treatment) Some of this is the perils of working for a family owned company or working for a bad boss who owns the company. People have to make choices about their careers.
The palace not having clear guidelines on how to handle complaints about family members seems to have been part of the problem. In his email, Jason Knauf asked for clarification on whether or not complaints against members of The Royal Family were covered under the existing workplace harassment policy.

There are different sorts of workplace conflicts that happen all the time and that donít approach the level of bullying or harassment. In those sorts of cases, of course it would be the staff member, not the royal, who would need to adjust or be transferred. But I disagree that the only solution to severe or ongoing issues with a family member is to hope that The Queen or Charles can do something. That should probably be the first step, but if they wonít get involved, or their involvement produces no change, there needs to be a Plan B.
  #740  
Old 03-05-2021, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
The palace not having clear guidelines on how to handle complaints about family members seems to have been part of the problem. In his email, Jason Knauf asked for clarification on whether or not complaints against members of The Royal Family were covered under the existing workplace harassment policy.

There are different sorts of workplace conflicts that happen all the time and that donít approach the level of bullying or harassment. In those sorts of cases, of course it would be the staff member, not the royal, who would need to adjust or be transferred. But I disagree that the only solution to severe or ongoing issues with a family member is to hope that The Queen or Charles can do something. That should probably be the first step, but if they wonít get involved, or their involvement produces no change, there needs to be a Plan B.
Having a Plan B may be ideal but I am not sure what that would look like. If the abuser is a member of the family, they can't fire them. If they are working royals with important duties, they can't withdraw their staff. I am sure what else can be done.
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