General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 6: January 2021 -

[Duke of Marmalade]

Is this a job cut out for Joachim to still let him keep his allowance?
It feels to me that Joachims family is to be kept out of the country, but they want to keep him in the fold by being paid by the Danish State instead of allowing him a well paid private job in the military industry. Or wouldn't he be qualified for such a job?
I don't think Joachim would do a Prince Harry and spill the secrets but it's safer to keep him on the State payroll instead of private industry.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Is this a job cut out for Joachim to still let him keep his allowance?
It feels to me that Joachims family is to be kept out of the country, but they want to keep him in the fold by being paid by the Danish State instead of allowing him a well paid private job in the military industry. Or wouldn't he be qualified for such a job?
I don't think Joachim would do a Prince Harry and spill the secrets but it's safer to keep him on the State payroll instead of private industry.

Only if you believe that Joachim is a 'gray sheep' being shuffled out of Europe to keep him away from his mother and brother.

If you believe that he's proud of being a Prince to Denmark and wants to keep serving in that role and has served with the military for several years now and, as Muhler said, there's no way they would send someone unqualified to do this kind of work, especially not now...then it makes sense.

Not sure which part of his family is considered particularly threatening, especially when Nikolai and Felix (and Alex too) are not going anywhere.

And the secrets you're insinuating Joachim might spill would be espionage, and that's undignified.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Only if you believe that Joachim is a 'gray sheep' being shuffled out of Europe to keep him away from his mother and brother.

If you believe that he's proud of being a Prince to Denmark and wants to keep serving in that role and has served with the military for several years now and, as Muhler said, there's no way they would send someone unqualified to do this kind of work, especially not now...then it makes sense.

Not sure which part of his family is considered particularly threatening, especially when Nikolai and Felix (and Alex too) are not going anywhere.

And the secrets you're insinuating Joachim might spill would be espionage, and that's undignified.

Well, Joachim's own wife confirmed more or less that they were moved to France against their wishes so I don't think this is too far fetched.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Well, Joachim's own wife confirmed more or less that they were moved to France against their wishes so I don't think this is too far fetched.

And ignoring Joachim's enthusiastic quotes in the press about wanting to take this position isn't?

[Duke of Marmalade]

maybe both of them learned to be enthusiastic about what the hand that feeds them has to offer, at least in public.

[kalnel]

This definitely *could* be a move to push Joachim out of sight/out of mind. Don't forget, the last Danish royal sent to the embassy in Washington was Princess Elisabeth. She was another HRH that they never really found a use for.

But, of course, she was the granddaughter of a king, not the son of a queen.

Unless they intend to let Joachim play in the political sandbox -- doing some lobbying and policy work -- his job will either be military coordination or superficial meeting and greeting. (Or "grip and grin" as they call it here.)

I envision a lot of "Denmark sure would like a favorable deal on these munitions. By the way, have you met our Queen's son the Prince? He's here to tell you about it! Shake the nice general's hand, Prince Joachim."

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

maybe both of them learned to be enthusiastic about what the hand that feeds them has to offer, at least in public.

Or Joachim is actually enthusiastic about moving on up to go work with some of the world's biggest and most advanced defense contractors and the Pentagon.

I just find it astounding that whatever he does (except for having a life-threatening stroke. Recovering from it meant business as usual), at least 60/40 of the reaction will be negative, even when they're all contradictory.
- "they're being forced"
- "he's totally unqualified"
- "he's completely entitled"
- "he forced this out of the Queen"
- "oh and he's probably dangerous and could be a loose cannon like Harry or a spy"

Maybe he's also tired of being the whipping boy.

(And this isn't just my opinion, or this board. I'm pretty sure Nikolai already expressed the same sentiment.)

[kalnel]

Defense contractors are global these days, so being in Washington wouldn't necessarily give him more access. He might be coordinating with the Pentagon, but on tactical stuff, I would think he'd be more likely to be at a NATO base somewhere.

Military attaches are a dime a dozen, so this job may not be as prestigious as one might think.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Or Joachim is actually enthusiastic about moving on up to go work with some of the world's biggest and most advanced defense contractors and the Pentagon.

I just find it astounding that whatever he does (except for having a life-threatening stroke. Recovering from it meant business as usual), at least 60/40 of the reaction will be negative, even when they're all contradictory.
- "they're being forced"
- "he's totally unqualified"
- "he's completely entitled"
- "he forced this out of the Queen"
- "oh and he's probably dangerous and could be a loose cannon like Harry or a spy"

Maybe he's also tired of being the whipping boy.

(And this isn't just my opinion, or this board. I'm pretty sure Nikolai already expressed the same sentiment.)

Not all is contradictory.
Marie confirmed that they were being forced (to Paris) and who else could have forced them other than the Queen.
It's not that I present the most absurd theory here.
And by the way, what is 'the board opinion'?

[maria-olivia]

We know only the top of the Iceberg !

[tommy100]

I do feel sorry for the family for it seems, now matter how cushy the role Joachim lands may well be, that his mother and the court has a huge influence on his life. They don't want him doing commercial work but don't want to give him royal work to do either. I can't believe there isn't a role for him in Denmark even if it is a 9-5 job somewhere.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by tommy100

I do feel sorry for the family for it seems, now matter how cushy the role Joachim lands may well be, that his mother and the court has a huge influence on his life. They don't want him doing commercial work but don't want to give him royal work to do either. I can't believe there isn't a role for him in Denmark even if it is a 9-5 job somewhere.

But Joachim, specifically, said to the press — in unusually enthusiastic terms — that he really, really, really wanted this job. Assuming, of course, that it is this particular job that he's now got.

And Joachim is not particularly good at dissembling, to the media or to other people. So why are people willing to accept the idea stated by him (and Marie) that "it wasn't our choice" means they were forced out (when it could have equally meant "we still like Denmark, we didn't leave because we hated it, please don't think that"), but not that, stated by him, he is gung-ho to go to the US? Even if he is being railroaded, it doesn't mean he can't like the idea of this destination a lot more.

Not everything about him has to be a negative conspiracy.

[Muhler]

It is indeed a distinct possibility that Joachim really likes his job, has grown into it and is good at it - that has certainly been claimed in the press time and time again.
The DK defense industry is pretty delighted with him going to USA, judging from comments in the media.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/fo...goer-en-kaempe

And if you are good at something - or discover your are good at something, you may see another similar job as a challenge to look forward to.

It has been claimed a number of times in the past that Joachim would have made a good diplomat. I can't say of course because I don't know.
However, being folksy, funny and even popular may not be traits that impress diplomats and similar people in these circles. Professionalism I think carry a lot more weight.

Our Marie has lived in USA for several years, up to 9/11, so adjusting may be less of a problem for her than for Joachim.

And as for Princess Elisabeth. Well she worked in the Foreign Ministry and many if not most who are employed there will at some point and at least once be deployed abroad.

I wonder what would have happened had Joachim pursued a diplomatic career, rather then the detour with Schackenborg?

[kalnel]

I think the greatest disservice to Joachim was that he didn't get much of an education. Without a relevant university degree, his job prospects and earning potential are crippled.

In Washington, Marie will be what's known as a "wife of," if she doesn't have her own career, which can be difficult for some. As far as her knowing the culture better, I'm not so sure. She lived in New York as a student for a few months in the 90s -- that is worlds away from Washington diplomatic circles today.

(..)

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Muhler

It has been claimed a number of times in the past that Joachim would have made a good diplomat. I can't say of course because I don't know.
However, being folksy, funny and even popular may not be traits that impress diplomats and similar people in these circles. Professionalism I think carry a lot more weight.

Our Marie has lived in USA for several years, up to 9/11, so adjusting may be less of a problem for her than for Joachim.

I wonder what would have happened had Joachim pursued a diplomatic career, rather then the detour with Schackenborg?

It seems Joachim was just not ready to become a Danish farmer (including all that was for Schakenborg, including his studies). Yes, who knows, maybe he dreamt of a life as Danish diplomat first in Paris (where lots of good diplomats came from) and then in Washington, the most important city of the West. While Marie surely is successful working for charities, Danish interests and as his hostess. And I guess for their minor children it's easier in Washinton than Paris on being diminish from Prince/ss to Count/ess. The Americans love European nobility and real Danish nobles are considered something upper class, no matter what their rank.

Originally Posted by kalnel

I think the greatest disservice to Joachim was that he didn't get much of an education. Without a relevant university degree, his job prospects and earning potential are crippled.

He finished his studies in agrar science because he was considered the heir of Schakenborg. There sinply was no other choice, but you should understand (at least in Germany it would be)that these studies are for the managers of professional estates, the one necessary to become CEO of large coorperations like ARLA. And along his management of the estate he made a career out of being an officer of the reserve (including several difficult courses for officers) and finished the two-year-course in France with success, the one who is considered the top course for officers, making it possible to give him the title of brigadier general. Not because he is a prince but because he was qualified.

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

He finished his studies in agrar science because he was considered the heir of Schakenborg. There sinply was no other choice, but you should understand (at least in Germany it would be)that these studies are for the managers of professional estates, the one necessary to become CEO of large coorperations like ARLA. And along his management of the estate he made a career out of being an officer of the reserve (including several difficult courses for officers) and finished the two-year-course in France with success, the one who is considered the top course for officers, making it possible to give him the title of brigadier general. Not because he is a prince but because he was qualified.

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

[Silverpot]

Originally Posted by kalnel

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

Joachim's education in agrar science sounds like the one Prince Carl Philip has and that one is a university batchelors degree.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by kalnel

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

If that were the case, then no one in the military would ever be able to transition to civilian life, whereas the reality is that honorable military experience is always noted and usually considered a big plus on a resume.

And that's assuming Joachim wants to get out of the royal public sector. Which as of now, it appears he does not. We're not talking Princess Margaret-levels of 'intelligent and sadly, tragically uneducated' here.

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

If that were the case, then no one in the military would ever be able to transition to civilian life, whereas the reality is that honorable military experience is always noted and usually considered a big plus on a resume.

And that's assuming Joachim wants to get out of the royal public sector. Which as of now, it appears he does not. We're not talking Princess Margaret-levels of 'intelligent and sadly, tragically uneducated' here.

Honorable military service is a commendable thing, and it opens a lot of doors for enlisted personnel who don't have college degrees. But, officers in the U.S. military (except for warrant officers) nearly all have bachelor's degrees or higher. (Things may be different in other countries, of course.)

Joachim doesn't have this credential, so other than his name and connections, he would not have an easy time finding or qualifying for a high-paying professional job.

[Magali]

What is the level of Joachim’s agricultural education? In the Netherlands agricultural sciences is considered university level (BA, MA). Don’t know about Denmark.