The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants 2: Sep 2022 -

[Marengo]

Arms of The United Kingdom​

Welcome to thread The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants, Part 2

Commencing September 1st, 2022 ​

The previous thread can be found here
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[Blog Real]

King Charles III has a new Lord Great Chamberlain.

https://www.hellomagazine.com/royal...ord-chamberlain-loses-royal-job-king-charles/

 

[Hans-Rickard]

As expected as the Lord Great Chamberlain duties alternates between the Cholmondeley’s and the Ancaster/Carrington descendants

 

[An Ard Ri]

The current Lord Carrington is of a similar age to the new king

The previous Lord Chamberlain,the Marquess of Cholmondeley had served a long time 1990-2022!

 

[CyrilVladisla]

An explanation of The Lord Chamberlain's duties

 

[tommy100]

While some people are getting new jobs ^^, Charles and Camilla's staff have apparently received redundancy notices.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ndancy-notice-during-church-service-for-queen

Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the throne.

 

[Somebody]

An explanation of The Lord Chamberlain's duties

There is a difference between the Lord Chamberlain (this video) vs the Lord Great Chamberlain - the position that changed with the change of reign.

The current Lord Carrington is of a similar age to the new king

The previous Lord Chamberlain,the Marquess of Cholmondeley had served a long time 1990-2022!

And either he himself or his eldest son (or most likely both: first he himself (unless he dies before Charles - being 13 years his junior - and after his death, his son - who will turn 13 next month) will serve king William when he becomes king.

For those wondering about the intricacies of this office (in terms of who fulfills this role). As it was said, the role moves between different branches of one family: Peregrine Bertie, 3rd Duke of Ancaster and Kesteven, is their common ancestors. As he had only daughters instead of the office going to his eldest son it was equally divided among all (2) daughters. That same principle is still applied. The office goes to the eldest son OR to all daughters equally (meaning they have to share the office when it is their branch's turn). The Cholmondoley branch (descendants of the younger daughter: Georgiana Cholmondeley, Marchioness of Cholmondeley) has only 1 'heir' to the office as they've had a strict male-line inheritance, however, the branch stemming from the elder sister (Priscilla Bertie, 21st Baroness Willoughby de Eresby) has many different branches within it with different parts of the share.

So, let's try to get the more complicated one straight.

Priscilla Bertie, 21st Baroness Willoughby de Eresby: 1/2 (her sister had the other half)
Her eldest son Peter Bertie : 1/2
His eldest son Peter Drummond-Burrell, 22nd Baron Willoughby de Eresby: 1/2 --> however, this son died without (legitimate) children so it passed on to both his sisters who each inherited 1/4 share.
(so, these two branches now have alternate one branch was serving king George VI and the other will now be serving king Charles III - it will be the 'George VI-branch that will also serve George VII)


SUB-BRANCH 1: ELDER SISTER Clementina Drummond-Willoughby, 24th Baroness Willoughby de Eresby: 1/4 (this branch served king George VI)
Pretty straight-forward from here on until now: male-line inheritance except for the final one (her younger brother went missing - she was the only other child). The current 'shared-office holder' for her branch is:
Jane Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby, 28th Baroness Willoughby de Eresby: 1/4.

Her grandfather and father served king George VI. It is unlikely that she herself will serve king George VII as she is 87 now. As she is unmarried and without issue, her 1/4 share will pass on to the male-line descendants of her two late aunts who will each receive 1/8 share:

Eldest late aunt: Lady Catherine Mary Heathcote-Drumond-Willoughby (1906–1996) --> current heir: Sebastian St Maur Miller (b. 1965) (her grandson) (but given his age, it seems unlikely that he will outlive William, so most likely his son Merlin Miller (most likely in his late 20s as his parents married in 1991) will serve king George VII as Lord Great Chamberlain one day).

Younger late aunt: Lady Priscilla Heathcote-Drumond-Willoughby (1909–2002) --> current heir: Sir John Aird, 4th Baronet (b. 1940) (her son); he will pass his share on to his only son: James John Aird, Esq. (born 12 June 1978) - his descendants will have to wait four more reigns (after George VII) to serve as Lord Chamberlain (assuming they decide to alternate between these two sub-subbranches).


SUB-BRANCH 2: YOUNGER SISTER Charlotte Augusta Carrington, Lady Carrington: 1/4 (this branch started serving Charles III last week - and is the most complicated one: but they didn't pick one of the shareholders but chose Rupert Carington, 7th Baron Carrington - the most senior descendant in male-line instead). They last served under George V.

Charlotte passed her 1/4 share on to her son Charles Wynn-Carington, 1st Marquess of Lincolnshire.
Charles (who served king George V!) passed his 1/4 share on to his 5 daughters as his only son died in World War I without heirs - so all ended up with 1/20th share of the office:
2A: Marjorie Wilson, Baroness Nunburnholme
2B: Lady Alexandra Llewellen Palmer
2C: Ruperta Legge, Countess of Dartmouth
2D: Judith Keppel, Countess of Albemarle (it went straight to her son as she passed away before her father)
2E: Lady Victoria Weld-Forester

2A/Marjorie Wilson passed her share on to her son: Charles Wilson, 3rd Baron Nunburnholme 1/20
Charles Wilson passed his share on to his son: Ben Wilson, 4th Baron Nunburnholme 1/20
Ben Wilson passed his share on to his four daughters. One of them recently died so the remaining three now each have 1/60 of the share:
2Aa: The Hon. Lorraine Wilson 1/60
2Ab: The Hon. Tatiana Dent 1/60
2Ac: The Hon. Ines Garton 1/60

2B/Lady Alexandra Llewellen Palmer passed her share on to her son: Brig. Anthony Llewellen Palmer 1/20
Brig. Anthony Llewellen Palmer passed his share on to his nephew (by his younger brother) 1/20
Julian Llewellen Palmer passed his share on to his son 1/20
Nicholas Llewellen Palmer 1/20

2C/Ruperta Legge passed her share on to 5 daughters - who each passed it on in male line 1/20
2Ca Lady Mary Findlay --> Cdr Jonathan Findlay --> Christopher Findlay 1/100
2Cb Lady Elizabeth Basset --> Bryan Basset --> David Basset --> Michael James Basset (brother) 1/100
2Cc Lady Diana Matthews --> Col James Hamilton-Russell 1/100
2Cd Lady Barbara Kwiatkowska --> Jan Witold Kwiatkowski 1/100
2Ce Josceline Chichester, Marchioness of Donegall --> Patrick Chichester, 8th Marquess of Donegall 1/100

2D/son of Judith Keppel: Derek Keppel, Viscount Bury passed his share on to his son 1/20
Rufus Keppel, 10th Earl of Albemarle 1/20

2E/Lady Victoria Weld-Forester (previously married to Lt. Nigel Legge-Bourkewho was killed in action during WW1 - Willam & Harry's nanny is one of their descendants!)) passed her share on to her son 1/20
Sir Henry Legge-Bourke passed his share on to his son 1/20
William Legge-Bourke passed his share on to his son 1/20
Capt. Harry Legge-Bourke 1/20

See the family tree with all these shares on wikipedia.

 

[Marengo]

While some people are getting new jobs ^^, Charles and Camilla's staff have apparently received redundancy notices.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ndancy-notice-during-church-service-for-queen

Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the throne.

Very efficient though perhaps not the best and most considerate timing in the world.

 

[tommy100]

Amazing that with everything else going on someone has even had time to think about this IMO. Certainly contrasts with the message this is a period of mourning and that the Royal Mail won't deliver on Monday, GPs can cancel appointments on Monday and the whole system of benefits is being paid early due to the bank holiday - but Charles can't miss out on letting his staff have a few days before telling them they no longer have a job. It is pretty low IMO. What's next, we'll be hearing the late Queen's staff got their notices.

 

[wbenson]

Whatever one thinks about the decision on who to keep, I'm not sure keeping people in ignorance once a decision has been made would make it better. Imagine if one of the people made some major life decision tomorrow and then found out next Tuesday that they'd secretly been out of a job; they'd be even more angry, and rightfully so.

 

[Curryong]

I’m sure we will be seeing senior staff and courtiers from BP leaving in the next couple of months. Private and Press Secretaries etc, to be replaced by aides from Clarence House and some new appointments.

 

[Saragli]

I may be misunderstanding the law but I believe an employer is required to let a long term employee know they may be made redundant as soon as possible.

 

[Sunnystar]

Well, and let's be real... Once the Queen passed away, everyone had to know that some of their jobs were likely to be eliminated, simply because there isn't a need to maintain two households. It's not much different than a corporate merger. It's rough, but it's also fair to say "look, we don't know who will or won't be retained, but be prepared for the possibility you may be made redundant."

 

[Hallo girl]

I may be misunderstanding the law but I believe an employer is required to let a long term employee know they may be made redundant as soon as possible.

You are correct, 12 weeks notice.

 

[muriel]

I may be misunderstanding the law but I believe an employer is required to let a long term employee know they may be made redundant as soon as possible.

I suspect that is what has happened, it is probably notice of job being at risk.

 

[VictoriaB]

I suspect that is what has happened, it is probably notice of job being at risk.

That’s what the story actually says - that people have been told there may be redundancies and that every effort would be made to help those people affected to find new employment if necessary.

Not unsurprisingly with the Guardian (and that is my go to UK Newspaper) the actual story is not quite as heartless as the headline makes out

 

[An Ard Ri]

While some people are getting new jobs ^^, Charles and Camilla's staff have apparently received redundancy notices.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ndancy-notice-during-church-service-for-queen

Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the throne.

Yes I was reading that yesterday!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In my country all staff working in the service of HM offer their position into the new King's most gracious consideration. But that is just tradition, in reality the new King immediately requests any of them to continue their duties and services, with gratitude for their loyalty, proven to the previous monarch. I expect this will not be different for the current Household in Britan, except for very personal staff working for the late Queen in her most private care and support.


But 95% or more of the staff will remain, is my guess.

 

[Mbruno]

Now that Lord Parker of Minsmere formally broke his wand of office, when is the next Lord Chamberlain expected to be announced?

 

[HRHHermione]

That’s what the story actually says - that people have been told there may be redundancies and that every effort would be made to help those people affected to find new employment if necessary.

Not unsurprisingly with the Guardian (and that is my go to UK Newspaper) the actual story is not quite as heartless as the headline makes out

It really was such an overwrought headline for such a non-story and it made a lot of people angry. I had people on Facebook swearing up and down Charles had fired his staff in the middle of the funeral.

 

[wbenson]

No big surprise here:

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/...-waiting?collection=13294&&contentLayout=News

THE Queen Consort is set to dispense with the centuries-old tradition of having ladies-in-waiting as part of her retinue.

Instead, her existing staff will take on the traditional duties of the monarch’s official companions in what has been lightheartedly described as a ‘two for the price of one’ deal, the Daily Mail can reveal.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

No big surprise here:

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/...-waiting?collection=13294&&contentLayout=News

THE Queen Consort is set to dispense with the centuries-old tradition of having ladies-in-waiting as part of her retinue.

Instead, her existing staff will take on the traditional duties of the monarch’s official companions in what has been lightheartedly described as a ‘two for the price of one’ deal, the Daily Mail can reveal.

I have read it otherwise (I prefer not to clickbait that disgisting DM) but it is kind of sad to throw away the function of Lady-in-waiting.

 

[FigTree]

I have read it otherwise (I prefer not to clickbait that disgisting DM) but it is kind of sad to throw away the function of Lady-in-waiting.

Do do a lot of good work. My class got a letter from the ‘Queen’ a couple of days before she died. Who will make sure all of us lovely people get noticed for writing in or caring. Apparently if you send the Queen a Christmas card you would always get a reply. When Harry and Meghan got married my class sent cards…and nothing. But down the road the nursery sent Eugenie some cards for her wedding and they got a card back.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

So to read -and surprising- the Lady-in-Waiting seems to do activities which are - in my country- done by a particulier secretaris.

When you send a card to a royal in my country, never an unpaid Hofdame would handle this: it is always done by the paid professionals at the Secretary.

Maybe Queen Camilla wishes to evolve to a more "Accompanying Lady" style of escorte than let these ladies do real administrative or executive works?

 

[tommy100]

Interesting to see that both the late Queen's Private Secretary - Sir Edward Young and the new King's Private Secretary (from when he was Prince of Wales) Sir Clive Alderton both greeted Rishi Sunak when he arrived at Buckingham Palace to take up his appointment as PM.

 

[tommy100]

https://archive.ph/90tn5

The new Queen has appointed six of her closest friends as “Queen’s companions”, replacing the traditional role of royal ladies-in-waiting.

In a move marking a significant departure in style from the late Queen, whose ladies-in-waiting were in constant attendance wherever she went, Camilla’s “companions” will have far lighter duties, accompanying her to only a few key events each year.

The six longstanding confidantes from the King and Queen’s inner circle will provide her with “personal support” for some official and state duties. They are the Marchioness of Lansdowne, the Hon Lady (Katharine) Brooke, Jane von Westenholz, Sarah Troughton, Lady Sarah Keswick and Baroness “Carlyn” Chisholm.

Several of them are expected to join the Queen in their new roles for the first time at Buckingham Palace on Tuesday, when Camilla will host a high-profile reception raising awareness of violence against women and girls. They will also accompany her to the coronation on May 6 at Westminster Abbey and at the next state opening of parliament.

The Queen’s companions will have less formal roles than the late Queen’s ladies-in-waiting, who had been involved in every aspect of her life, moving with the monarch wherever she was in residence and handling her correspondence.


Well, to me this feels like an unnecessary "rebranding". It sounds like Camilla's "companions" are going to have the same role that Ladies in Waiting for Anne, Alexandra, and Birgitte have. They could have just made clear the role was changing to reflect the new Queen's needs - easily put as the needs of a Queen Consort over a Queen Regnant. Seems harsh to ditch a centuries old role over names.

I hope there aren't lots more of these type of moves ahead.

 

[JR76]

While I support and understand the reform I don't understand why the change of title is necessary. Several royal courts have ladies-in-waiting to support the queen and do some upper-level admin while there are secretaries to do most of the daily admin.

 

[Lilyflo]

When I read about this, I assumed that she was dispensing with the role completely and just having assistants in the same way male royals (and other female royals) do. Instead, it looks like the role is continuing but with lesser duties so why change the name? I also think it's a mixed message of modernising (ditch the name) but still drawing the people from the top ranks of society, which is not in the least bit progressive.

 

[Stefan]

I also don't understand why it is necessary to change the Titles. Simple keep them as Ladies-in-Waiting but with a different role of Job. But probably that is not modern enough.

 

[tommy100]

Seems like change for the sake of change to me which I hope isn't a sign of things to come. The monarchy is built on traditions and history and should keep as many of those going as a re suitable in a modern world (i.e. those that doesn't cause offence) When I read it at first I was expecting one of the names to be that of a man or something to justify the change in title.

A little bit of me wonders if this isn't the typical PR game that use to surround Charles - there was a lot of media mentions just after the late Queen's death that Camilla wouldn't have Ladies in Waiting, in many quarters it was seen as "modernisation". I fear Charles and his team don't seem to have the conviction to say "well actually she will have Ladies in Waiting but their role will be different because XYZ" but to attempt to appease all and keep that positive press going by creating a new role, that appears virtually the same as the old.

That, or they've come to realise Camilla needs Ladies in Waiting and don't want to look like they are backtracking so have this silly compromise.

I completely understand the change in duties - having the ladies in waiting on hand all day and night is unnecessary and there is a large correspondence team to answer letters which seems a better use of time. The "new" role seems to be that of Ladies in Waiting of Anne and other royal ladies - accompanying them on royal duties, big events etc as a companion but not on hand all the time. I get that. But the title change is unnecessary IMO.