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10-02-2019, 10:51 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 16,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno
That looks like a really bad translation. Anyway, what it probably means is that CP Mary is now eligible to become a "rigsforstander" like Prince Joachim and Princess Benedikte, even though she is not in the line of succession.
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What happened was that QMII formally recommended Mary for approval as Rigsforstander when needed.
In order to become Rigsforstander a number of requirements have to be met - Mary fulfills those requirements.
The government approved Mary as eligible as Rigsforstander.
That means she does not have to go through a formal vetting process - that has now been done.
So in the future QMII (or Frederik when he is acting as Regent) can by signing a document appoint Mary to acting Rigsforstander. I.e. Mary will be acting head of state with all the powers bestowed to the Monarch.
Considering that it happens now, will IMO mean that Mary will act as Rigsforstander sometime within the next few months.
I simply cannot emphasize enough how big a pad on the shoulder this is for Mary!
I cannot recall ever having heard or read about a similar precedence in Danish history.
That the queen-consort to a Danish king stepped in as a kind of rigsforstander, was quite common in medieval times. But never the wife of the crown prince.
Queen Ingrid acted as Rigsforstander back in the 70's. Partly because she was tremendously respected by the politicians, and they trusted her.
One of the things the Danes had problems with in regards to PH, was that he had problems understanding/accepting that he was to walk behind his wife, not the other way around.
I think the politicians used the fact that Queen Ingrid outranked PH as a convenient excuse for not "needing his assistance" as Rigsforstander.
I cannot help thinking that this may be an indication that J&M are signing out as active members of the DRF and will be settling in France.
After all, if it was only for a period of a year, where Mary's needed to step in. Benedikte could still step in.
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10-02-2019, 12:50 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 1,117
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10-02-2019, 01:03 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 10,662
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This is tremendous news, and what a big sign of support for Mary and the work she has done as Crown Princess.
Im glad they shared a picture. The Queen looking proudly towards Frederik and Mary.
Government tweet
https://twitter.com/regeringDK/statu...471298/photo/1
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10-02-2019, 01:12 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 6,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno
It is not unusual for siblings of a monarch to be eligible to be regent ad interim.
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I think muriel and I were both referring to Princess Benedikte's role as a working royal rather than as a regent, although as others have pointed out, politicians may consider an experienced working royal to be a more trustworthy choice for regent.
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10-02-2019, 01:18 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 4,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco
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As I wrote to a friend The Queen looks as proud as a chicken that´s laid a golden egg and Frederick looks proud enough to burst. This is obviously a very big moment for all of them.
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10-02-2019, 02:05 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 16,458
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Exactly. QMII's expression is priceless. 
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10-02-2019, 05:45 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 9,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76
From what I've heard through the years its as simple as the Danes liking and respecting Queen Ingrid enough to forego the tradition. From what I can see there's nothing that legally would have prevented Prince Henrik from becoming a rigsforstander.
§5 of Law 25 from 1871 that regulates the question states that:
"Rigsforstanderen maa være en myndig og til Thronen arveberettiget Prinds eller en fuldmyndig Mand, som har dansk Indfødsret, og høre til den evangelisk-lutherske Kirke."
"Eligible for rigsforestander may be a prince in line of succession to the throne that's come of age or a man who's come of age, is a Danish citizen and belongs to the evangelical-lutheran church" (my translation)
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Do you have a link to the full text of the aforementioned law ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic
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Does the CP now have precedence over Prince Joachim and Princess Benedikte to serve as regent ad interim ? Or is that decided by the Queen on a case by case basis ?
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10-02-2019, 06:18 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 9,550
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A great honour and clear sign of trust; it seems well-deserved; and another sign that there is no intention at all to use prince Nikolai (as he is the other adult in line to the throne!) for royal work.
It is hard not to link this to Joachim's move to France; so yes, it seems that Joachim's family is sidelined (probably at their own request?) and the Crown princely family will become even more 'center stage' than they already are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno
Does the CP now have precedence over Prince Joachim and Princess Benedikte to serve as regent ad interim ? Or is that decided by the Queen on a case by case basis ?
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Only Frederick can be the 'regent'. Joachim, Benedikte and now Mary can only be 'rigsforstander'. I believe a regent is preferred over a rigsforstander, so only if both Margrethe and Frederick are abroad, one of the potential rigsforstanders is called upon.
It is also explained that way in the press release:
Quote:
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As regent [i.e. rigsforstander], The Crown Princess will, from now on, be able to attend to The Queen’s duties as head of state when The Queen and The Crown Prince are prevented from doing so, for example during a stay abroad.
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10-03-2019, 03:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody
A great honour and clear sign of trust; it seems well-deserved; and another sign that there is no intention at all to use prince Nikolai (as he is the other adult in line to the throne!) for royal work.
It is hard not to link this to Joachim's move to France; so yes, it seems that Joachim's family is sidelined (probably at their own request?) and the Crown princely family will become even more 'center stage' than they already are.
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Yes, that was my first thought too (after that this is a great honor and recognition for Mary and her work): Joachim's stay in France will not be short term.
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10-03-2019, 03:33 AM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,199
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My guess is we will see more state visits carried out by the Queen and the Crown Prince together. So there will be need for a Rigsforstander. And with both Joachim and Benedikte not living in Denmark - at least in theory regarding Benedikte - and Benedikte already being 75 , it seems sensible to have a third option, the Crown Princess.
Quote:
Mbruno
Does the CP now have precedence over Prince Joachim and Princess Benedikte to serve as regent ad interim ?
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My guess is that the precedence among those who can be rigsforstander in theory stays as it was until now. First Joachim - if he happens to be in the counry, then Benedikte. Because they already have experience. If both are not in DK which is very likely, CP Mary will step in.
This IMO will change when Frederik becomes king.
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10-03-2019, 03:56 AM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 1,117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
My guess is that the precedence among those who can be rigsforstander in theory stays as it was until now. First Joachim - if he happens to be in the counry, then Benedikte.,
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How will we know if the precedence stays the same or if it changes?
Lets say that Mary is regent, say, two months from now. How do we know if she was the first one on the list because the precedence has been changed or the last one because Joachim and Benedikte weren't available?
It's not like the calendar will say "HRH The Crown Princess is rigsforstander in the period xxxx, because PJ and PB are not available" 
Unless, of course, the press asks the court and they give a direct reply.
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10-03-2019, 04:40 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 4,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic
How will we know if the precedence stays the same or if it changes?
Lets say that Mary is regent, say, two months from now. How do we know if she was the first one on the list because the precedence has been changed or the last one because Joachim and Benedikte weren't available?
It's not like the calendar will say "HRH The Crown Princess is rigsforstander in the period xxxx, because PJ and PB are not available"
Unless, of course, the press asks the court and they give a direct reply. |
I don't know how significant it is but the profile of Prince Joachim on Kongehuset.dk explicitly states that he IS the rigsforstander when The Queen and The Crown Prince is out of the country while the profile of Princess Benedikte doesn't even mention the possibility. It could either be sloppiness or a clear signal that up to now Prince Joachim has been of a higher precedence in this matter than his aunt. To my knowledge Benedikte has only ever been a rigsforstander when Joachim hasn't been available so it certainly seems like that's the case.
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10-03-2019, 04:52 AM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 1,117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76
Prince Joachim has been of a higher precedence in this matter than his aunt. To my knowledge Benedikte has only ever been a rigsforstander when Joachim hasn't been available so it certainly seems like that's the case.
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That has been the case up until now, yes, but the question was the possible change of precedence from now on. 
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10-03-2019, 05:13 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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I wonder if we will see QM and PF sharing more engagements as insurance that Fred knows every single little bit and tittle of her duties as Queen Regnant of Denmark. Mary also gets to learn how to cope with the State and the Crown Princely family.
I do not know her position on abdication but we are all aware that the spirit is willing but the flesh? Well we know she suffers dreadful pain.
Whatever she plans, be it semi-retirement or abdication, she is ensuring that crown Prince Frederick and Crown Princess Mary are more than ready for what lies ahead.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
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10-03-2019, 05:17 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG
I do not know her position on abdication but we are all aware that the spirit is willing but the flesh? Well we know she suffers dreadful pain.
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The Queen has on numerous occasions, last time only a week ago, stated that she's in it for life and wouldn't even consider abdicating. Regarding her pain she seems to be in excellent health after some operations a few years ago. She definitely seems to walk better now than before.
We can already see her son and daughter-in-law take on much heavier duties and they almost run the incoming state visits themselves so I'd say that instead of abdicating she'll just continue in handing over her duties to them and if she gets ill have Frederik appointed regent.
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10-03-2019, 06:29 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: , Germany
Posts: 75,157
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During an engagement this morning, Crown Princess Mary was asked about yesterday's announcement that she can from now on function as regent:
"It is a great honor and I am deeply touched by the confidence that has been shown to me":
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**** Welcome aboard! ****
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10-03-2019, 10:16 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG
I wonder if we will see QM and PF sharing more engagements as insurance that Fred knows every single little bit and tittle of her duties as Queen Regnant of Denmark. Mary also gets to learn how to cope with the State and the Crown Princely family.
I do not know her position on abdication but we are all aware that the spirit is willing but the flesh? Well we know she suffers dreadful pain.
Whatever she plans, be it semi-retirement or abdication, she is ensuring that crown Prince Frederick and Crown Princess Mary are more than ready for what lies ahead.
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QMII is the most outspoken monarch regarding abdications. She sees her position as a job for life.
Recently she actually said that she sees it as a job for life unless a serious health issue would force her to stop.
Likely with Prince Henrik's dementia as a painful reminder that the mental health can also force you to stop at some point even if your physical health is still good.
She and The Crown Prince will likely continue to share the duties. The Crown Prince already has a lot of the duties that doesn't require the monarch's presence, and could easily take over the throne tomorrow should it become necessary.
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10-03-2019, 11:11 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 16,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricarda
My guess is we will see more state visits carried out by the Queen and the Crown Prince together. So there will be need for a Rigsforstander. And with both Joachim and Benedikte not living in Denmark - at least in theory regarding Benedikte - and Benedikte already being 75 , it seems sensible to have a third option, the Crown Princess.
My guess is that the precedence among those who can be rigsforstander in theory stays as it was until now. First Joachim - if he happens to be in the counry, then Benedikte. Because they already have experience. If both are not in DK which is very likely, CP Mary will step in.
This IMO will change when Frederik becomes king.
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That's a very good point.
QMII will be in need of a "consort" when on state-visits. It's hard enough as it is, but even harder on your own. And indeed, who better than Frederik?
Benedikte is the perfect Princess. She has always known when to step aside and do it gracefully, with dignity and no hard feelings. She will step aside for Mary as well, if that is the appropriate thing to do.
Joachim, well, by this time next year, we will know...
The news has been well-received here in DK. There is seemingly full confidence in Mary being able to fulfill that role - it's after all head of state, we are talking about! In theory she could be head of state for months in some of the worst case scenarios.
It's hardly talk of the town, but when talked about it's my impression people think it's deserved, appropriate and have faith in her.
The royal experts seem to agree that this is a part of a modernization of the DRF, including gender equality. - Personally I don't buy that one.
I firmly believe Mary was vetted and approved as Rigsforstander, because she was found competent (in DK competent is a very positive term) and because the politicians in particular have full confidence in her.
PH, while very popular for extended periods, was a bit, how to put it, unsteady in regards to how he defined his role and even more crucial IMO, while people had confidence in him as consort (most of the time) I doubt very much that feeling was extended to include him in the role as acting head of state.
I think this is not a question about modernization, but of ice-cold practicality.
Daily Mail has the story as well:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...Margrethe.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard
QMII is the most outspoken monarch regarding abdications. She sees her position as a job for life.
Recently she actually said that she sees it as a job for life unless a serious health issue would force her to stop.
Likely with Prince Henrik's dementia as a painful reminder that the mental health can also force you to stop at some point even if your physical health is still good.
She and The Crown Prince will likely continue to share the duties. The Crown Prince already has a lot of the duties that doesn't require the monarch's presence, and could easily take over the throne tomorrow should it become necessary.
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In the latest interview with her, she was again asked about abdicating. And she did indeed emphasize that only her health would lead to her abdicating.
However, if she is planning to abdicate, she would naturally deny that until the very moment it is announced. Otherwise it would be a huge sensation! And people would basically only wait for her to abdicate.
But, if she does have plans about abdicating while her health is still good, she could easily have dodged that question.
And she has left a door half-open: When does her health prevents her from fulfilling her task as monarch? That's basically up to the doctors - or QMII herself...
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10-03-2019, 11:32 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler
In the latest interview with her, she was again asked about abdicating. And she did indeed emphasize that only her health would lead to her abdicating.
However, if she is planning to abdicate, she would naturally deny that until the very moment it is announced. Otherwise it would be a huge sensation! And people would basically only wait for her to abdicate.
But, if she does have plans about abdicating while her health is still good, she could easily have dodged that question.
And she has left a door half-open: When does her health prevents her from fulfilling her task as monarch? That's basically up to the doctors - or QMII herself...
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That's true. As far as i know, she has never left that door open, that she would abdicate if she becomes in very bad health instead of just appointing Frederik "Regent" for the time being....
Perhaps PH's dementia and death has had her reconsider what to do in that case ? 🤔 Only QMII knows....
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