King Constantine has passed away - January 10, 2023

[W.Y.CII]

Not even for a Former Head of State? (all former Presidents of Ireland are afforded a State Funeral)

I think Hellenic Republic is expected to offer a state funeral for a former head of state of Hellenic Republic but not for a former head of state of former Kingdom of Greece. Technically different states.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Not even for a Former Head of State? (all former Presidents of Ireland are afforded a State Funeral)

Even though he was a former HoS, I think this is very different.
There is the past, what still upsets a lot of people, unpleasant memories come up. The monarchy was abolished in 1974 and since 1994 Constantine is not even a Greek citizen. He sued an received a compensation of 12 Mio Euros.
No way they would give him a State Funeral and pay for it.
There would be s***storm and uproar that no Government can afford.

 

[An Ard Ri]

In 2021 a State funeral was held for a former President, so i guess they all get one if it is wanted by the Family

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1174666/funeral-service-of-former-president-held-in-athens/

Perhaps the Greek RF have requested a Private Funeral?

 

[Hans-Rickard]

There is also the possibility that it may have been the late King’s wish that the government should not be present at his funeral and that he did not want a public mass in the Metropolitan Cathedral followed by a crowded procession through the streets of Athens to Tatoi, in the country that once threw him out and even refused to admit him as a greek citizen… If so, who can blame him ?

 

[lucien]

There is also the possibility that it may have been the late King’s wish that the government should not be present at his funeral and that he did not want a public mass in the Metropolitan Cathedral followed by a crowded procession through the streets of Athens to Tatoi, in the country that once threw him out and even refused to admit him as a greek citizen… If so, who can blame him ?

Valid point!Indeed!

 

[iceflower]

Philippos, Nikolaos and Pavlos were pictured leaving the Prime Minister's office in Athens today:


** rex gallery ** rex gallery 2 **


** BB gallery: De første billeder: Pavlos, Nikolaos og Philippos til afgørende møde om kong Konstantins begravelse **

 

[Muhler]

At least one of them will need to be in Denmark; so, it seems most likely that Mary will need to remain home as Margrethe and Benedikte will want to support their sister and hopefully both Frederik and Joachim will travel to Greece for the funeral of their uncle.

I think it's very likely that Mary will stay back as Rigsforstander.

QMII and Benedikte are a certainty. They may even stay with Queen Anne-Marie for a day or so.
Frederik and probably Joachim as well are very likely to go as well, he was after all their uncle.

And while the rule about someone from the DRF always staying behind is sometimes bend, if it's a short trip lasting only a few hours I do think a Rigsforstander will be appointed this time. So that means Mary.

I find it not unlikely that Christian and perhaps Isabella as well, will accompany Frederik, to represent the young generation.

 

[maria-olivia]

Is it the Church of the Wedding of Prince Philippos ?

 

[W.Y.CII]

Valid point!Indeed!

So it could be not the government of Greece being disgraceful......

 

[lucien]

Is it the Church of the Wedding of Prince Philippos ?

Yes,it is the Cathedral of Athens,where the King and his Queen were married in 1964.

Athens will see what a funeral of a Monarch means,as the Family of Royals attend and honor Him.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

So, it looks like it will be practically the same arrangements as for Prince Philippos Wedding then ? A private affair in the cathedral but with security and transportation for the invited royal guests ?

 

[hereditarytitles]

The King seems unknown in Greece 50 years later . His Reign lasted 3 years.He was totally inprepared and Queen Frederica alas as Mother.
I wonder what is written in the history books of the schools ?

To me the funeral will be private and as the President of Greece wil not be there , only private royal Families and representants of the Reigning Family.

What did Pavlos and Marie Chantal do for Greece? Nothing but only spending luxuious holidays. Lucien , for most of the Greeks Greece in a Republic since 50 years

I agree very much! It is abolished, just as is the monarchy in Germany, and I am glad of it. I just hope that Pavlos will not claim another title such as " future king of Greece". I always resented their claim of being "crown prince and crown princess of Greece".
Those people just cannot accept that the monarchy has been abolished. I can understand that they want to keep their traditions and still want to play a role because of their history. Just like the Hohenzollerns in Germany.

They just don't want to vanish into nothing, but in a republic they just are not of importance anymore and have to accept it!

 

[Prinsara]

If you go and look at the last page or two of the Constantine/Anne-Marie thread it's said that his wish was for a private funeral with NO Greek government attendance. Rather understandably.

So it seems that's mostly being followed.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I agree very much! It is abolished, just as is the monarchy in Germany, and I am glad of it. I just hope that Pavlos will not claim another title such as " future king of Greece". I always resented their claim of being "crown prince and crown princess of Greece".
Those people just cannot accept that the monarchy has been abolished. I can understand that they want to keep their traditions and still want to play a role because of their history. Just like the Hohenzollerns in Germany.

They just don't want to vanish into nothing, but in a republic they just are not of importance anymore and have to accept it!

As Pavlos was born as Crown Prince while his father was still reigning and the family still living in Greece, the title is hardly a ”claim” from his part… Rather a fact

Though i agree that he should not pretend to be ”Titular King” or a ”Custodian of the Crown” like Margarita in Romania, or something like that…. He is now the Head of the former greek royal family and responsible for the foundations, orders and traditions within the family, just like any other former royal family… Nothing more - nothing less

 

[Stefanie]

If you go and look at the last page or two of the Constantine/Anne-Marie thread it's said that his wish was for a private funeral with NO Greek government attendance. Rather understandably.

So it seems that's mostly being followed.

It wasn' t necessary to WISH a private funeral because he knew beforehand they wouldn' t allow a state funeral. So he had no choice anyway....

 

[maria-olivia]

Queen Anne Marie as Queen has to have the first place until she passes away. Crown Princess Marie Chantal must not be above her !

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Even though he was a former HoS, I think this is very different.
There is the past, what still upsets a lot of people, unpleasant memories come up. The monarchy was abolished in 1974 and since 1994 Constantine is not even a Greek citizen. He sued an received a compensation of 12 Mio Euros.
No way they would give him a State Funeral and pay for it.
There would be s***storm and uproar that no Government can afford.

That’s not true. He didn’t receive 12 million anything. The compensation was supposed to be that but the government gave him far less than that. The money was placed into the Queen Ana Maria foundation. The government could have given him back Tatoi but they didn’t.

I agree very much! It is abolished, just as is the monarchy in Germany, and I am glad of it. I just hope that Pavlos will not claim another title such as " future king of Greece". I always resented their claim of being "crown prince and crown princess of Greece".
Those people just cannot accept that the monarchy has been abolished. I can understand that they want to keep their traditions and still want to play a role because of their history. Just like the Hohenzollerns in Germany.

They just don't want to vanish into nothing, but in a republic they just are not of importance anymore and have to accept it!

Pavlos isn’t claiming anything and hasn’t claimed anything at all so I don’t get your point? Pavlos was born during the time of the monarchy so he was Crown Prince and he will remain that for the rest of his life. I think he is aware that the monarchy was abolished so u don’t get what you’re implying and Pavlos hasn’t done anything to incite anger of the government or tried to be political in Greece. What do the Hohenzollerns have to do with this? They aren’t involved in politics either so?

They don’t want to vanish into nothingness? Pavlos was born during the time of the monarchy and is closely related to reigning monarchs so of course, he will be talked about. I don’t believe Pavlos has asked for anything from Greece or its government and I don’t believe they (the family) have tried to make themselves important. It’s quite presumptuous of you to assume that when there’s no evidence of that at all.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The King seems unknown in Greece 50 years later . His Reign lasted 3 years.He was totally inprepared and Queen Frederica alas as Mother.
I wonder what is written in the history books of the schools ?

To me the funeral will be private and as the President of Greece wil not be there , only private royal Families and representants of the Reigning Family.

What did Pavlos and Marie Chantal do for Greece? Nothing but only spending luxuious holidays. Lucien , for most of the Greeks Greece in a Republic since 50 years

To be fair: for decades the Greek royal family was not even allowed to be in Greece. And the Government is not at all helpful, forthcoming and instrumental to the former royal family, like in Romania. That simply ruled out any meaningful role for Pavlos. Even if Pavlos would do volunteering work for refugees at Lesbos, the Greek Government could see this an offense. So we can not really blame the Greek royals for having an invisibility in Greece.

I agree very much! It is abolished, just as is the monarchy in Germany, and I am glad of it. I just hope that Pavlos will not claim another title such as " future king of Greece". I always resented their claim of being "crown prince and crown princess of Greece".
Those people just cannot accept that the monarchy has been abolished. I can understand that they want to keep their traditions and still want to play a role because of their history. Just like the Hohenzollerns in Germany.

They just don't want to vanish into nothing, but in a republic they just are not of importance anymore and have to accept it!

But Pavlos was Crown Prince of Greece. Period. The monarchy was anti-democratically overturned by a coup, a republican form of state was vested and the former King and Crown Prince were not even allowed to be in Greece, to campaign for the monarchist cause. The "democratic" referendum only had one outcome: the one desired by the powerful elite, happy to get rid of the King, so they could go their disastrous way and totally bankrupt Greece with nepotism and kleptocracy.

Pavlos is right to call himself Crown Prince Pavlos.

 

[wartenberg7]

The Spanish government has no say on personal matters, Felipe can attend his uncle's funeral, especially since this is not a state funeral and he'd be there as a nephew and not as King. This is why Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofia attended QEII's funeral despite the socialist government's desire to lock them up far and away, it was a State Funeral, but they were there as QEII's cousins.

That´s right. The spanish royal family, over the years, always socialited with their greek cousins, they spent holidays together back in the 1970s and 80s, the greek RF was invited to spanish royal weddings and the spanish royal family (yes, Fèlipe AND Letizia as well!) attended services of remembrance at the greek royal familie´s burial site of Tatoi. I am sure the current King of Spain would positivelygo, especially if this was a state funeral!

 

[hereditarytitles]

But Pavlos was Crown Prince of Greece. Period. The monarchy was anti-democratically overturned by a coup, a republican form of state was vested and the former King and Crown Prince were not even allowed to be in Greece, to campaign for the monarchist cause. The "democratic" referendum only had one outcome: the one desired by the powerful elite, happy to get rid of the King, so they could go their disastrous way and totally bankrupt Greece with nepotism and kleptocracy.

Pavlos is right to call himself Crown Prince Pavlos.

I see your point, as I am not so familiar with that history as you are.
But, do you think that the Greek people are wishing the monarchy back?
If so they could make another referendum such as "We want the monarchy back" because that was so much better for us?

In a republic where monarchies have been abolished for good reasons, nothing is perfect. No party, no politician is perfect! But, at least people can vote every 4 or 5 years and don't have to endure a king who rules and they have no chance whatsover to put them down.

As we all know those European monarchies that still exist only have a representative role (similar to presidents in other european countries without monarchies). A representative of the state who goes to foreign countries, talks about some political issues , once a year talks to the people in a public speach, but cannot make any important political decisions.

Similar to the royals which are still remaining in Europe, that is ok.

Pavlos isn’t claiming anything and hasn’t claimed anything at all so I don’t get your point? Pavlos was born during the time of the monarchy so he was Crown Prince and he will remain that for the rest of his life. I think he is aware that the monarchy was abolished so u don’t get what you’re implying and Pavlos hasn’t done anything to incite anger of the government or tried to be political in Greece. What do the Hohenzollerns have to do with this? They aren’t involved in politics either so?

They don’t want to vanish into nothingness? Pavlos was born during the time of the monarchy and is closely related to reigning monarchs so of course, he will be talked about. I don’t believe Pavlos has asked for anything from Greece or its government and I don’t believe they (the family) have tried to make themselves important. It’s quite presumptuous of you to assume that when there’s no evidence of that at all.

I don't understand why you are getting so upset?
He still calls himself "crown prince" and the whole family has been acting and is on social media with a constant presence to show that they are "Royals".
Nothing wrong with that, they can do what they want, and they are rich and have a history and are important.

I regret, but you didn't again see my point, sorry. But, opinions differ, so we have to live with it.

I shouldn't have mentioned the "Hohenzollerns" as I know you are a fan.
But , they are keeping very much in the background, which is decent.
I mentioned it just as an example of gone monarchies, that's all.

 

[wartenberg7]

I agree very much! It is abolished, just as is the monarchy in Germany, and I am glad of it. I just hope that Pavlos will not claim another title such as " future king of Greece". I always resented their claim of being "crown prince and crown princess of Greece".
Those people just cannot accept that the monarchy has been abolished. I can understand that they want to keep their traditions and still want to play a role because of their history. Just like the Hohenzollerns in Germany.

They just don't want to vanish into nothing, but in a republic they just are not of importance anymore and have to accept it!

Well, you are "happy" it was abolished..?! Very odd to read this on a ROYAL forum indeed..!
Exiled monarchs never changed their titles after being driven out of office - nothing unusual here! The last King of Portugal remained to be called as such. His wife, who he even married in exile in germany, was "Her Majesty, Queen Auguste-Viktoria". The exiled german Kaiser remained, to this day, Kaiser Wilhelm, austrias last emperor Karl and his wife still will be called Kaiser Karl and Kaiserin Zita, romanias last King Mihai/ Michael was given a huge funeral back in 2016 and was never called any different than King Michael, russias last Tsar is still "The Tsar"... the list goes on and on. All of these individuals are long dead and gone, so they cannot have any say in this - still they are all referred to exactly like that!
As Duc correctly pointed out, Pavlos was born during the monarchy and was given the title of the Crown Prince automatically with his birth. So, as his wife, Marie-Chantal assumed the title Crown Princess as it is always been done in monarchies; a Prince is husband to a Princess, a Crown Prince is married to a Crown Princess and a King "has" a Queen.
What I agree with you on that it would be not appropriate if CP Paul/ Pavlos and Marie would call themselves "King and Queen of the Hellenes", because they are not. But I am sure they are very much aware of that! Still, Pavlos´ mother as the wife of the now deceased King was Queen of the Hellenes and will some day die as such and nothing else!

 

[lucien]

Queen Anne Marie as Queen has to have the first place until she passes away. Crown Princess Marie Chantal must not be above her !

She isn´t,can´t.

 

[kimebear]

It isn't really a surprise that Greece isn't giving him a state funeral, given the history and general state of world economic upheaval. The current government needs to seem prudent to its citizens first and foremost.

I've always felt bad for KC because he seemed like a nice enough man who greatly felt the loss of his country, but at least he was allowed to eventually return to it to live and then pass away and be buried there. That's more than a lot of deposed monarchs get.

I hope many of his royal relatives take the time and are able to attend and send him off with grace and dignity.

 

[JGio]

I’m sure Pavlos and MC know very well they are not King and Queen and won’t make any faux pas in this sense. I believe they will be addresses as they have been so far.

Just a random question: will the coffin be draped in some flag/standard in your opinion? Are there precedents? The funeral thread is closed so I ask it here.

 

[hereditarytitles]

(quote)Being happy that monarchies have been abolished (for good reasons..)quote)

should be no reason to assume that I am not interested in royals and their history. I ama very much interested in history, and royals belong to our European history. I am not much interested in royal fashion, jewellery and dresses, but much into political history.
And, as a woman, I admit I am also curious about gossip.



Maybe it would be nice to try not to be so strict with each other about individual opinions. Opinions differ and discussions are controversial.

I have learned a lot in this forum about royalty and their history, so that is why I am still writing here to learn and see people's different opinions and knowledge. We can always discuss things peacefully .

 

[kalnel]

Any official reactions from the British royal family or the other reigning houses? I saw the ones from Denmark and from Serbia, Russia, and Romania.

 

[wartenberg7]

(quote)Being happy that monarchies have been abolished (for good reasons..)quote)

should be no reason to assume that I am not interested in royals and their history. I ama very much interested in history, and royals belong to our European history. I am not much interested in royal fashion, jewellery and dresses, but much into political history.
And, as a woman, I admit I am also curious about gossip.

Maybe it would be nice to try not to be so strict with each other about individual opinions. Opinions differ and discussions are controversial.

I have learned a lot in this forum about royalty and their history, so that is why I am still writing here to learn and see people's different opinions and knowledge. We can always discuss things peacefully .

This is off topic here, but IMO the abolishing of monarchy is a tragedy and a great loss to any country as it is undoubtedly the most dignified form of government! I am sure the german monarchy, from today´s standards undemocratic as it was, surely would have devolved into a constitutional system. But, as I said, off topic and should be continued on another thread.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I see your point, as I am not so familiar with that history as you are.
But, do you think that the Greek people are wishing the monarchy back?
If so they could make another referendum such as "We want the monarchy back" because that was so much better for us?

In a republic where monarchies have been abolished for good reasons, nothing is perfect. No party, no politician is perfect! But, at least people can vote every 4 or 5 years and don't have to endure a king who rules and they have no chance whatsover to put them down.

As we all know those European monarchies that still exist only have a representative role (similar to presidents in other european countries without monarchies). A representative of the state who goes to foreign countries, talks about some political issues , once a year talks to the people in a public speach, but cannot make any important political decisions.

Similar to the royals which are still remaining in Europe, that is ok.



I don't understand why you are getting so upset?
He still calls himself "crown prince" and the whole family has been acting and is on social media with a constant presence to show that they are "Royals".
Nothing wrong with that, they can do what they want, and they are rich and have a history and are important.

I regret, but you didn't again see my point, sorry. But, opinions differ, so we have to live with it.

I shouldn't have mentioned the "Hohenzollerns" as I know you are a fan.
But , they are keeping very much in the background, which is decent.
I mentioned it just as an example of gone monarchies, that's all.

Where have I indicated that I am upset? Show me? I’m not upset at all so I don’t get your issue? I literally just said the exact same thing as Duc_et_pair said about Pavlos being born as Crown Prince during the time of the monarchy so what’s your point? They have more in common with jet setters and it’s not social media that shows them to be royals, it’s their close relations and connections to the current reigning houses that’s what makes them relevant and prominent.

I haven’t stated my opinion, everything I have typed here is only facts and facts only. You saying that “I Hope Pavlos doesn’t go assuming to be King” or whatever was not necessary because he’s not involved in politics and has never assumed to be anything else. He lives his life the way he wants and has not ever indicated of wanting to be King.

I am not a fan of the Hohenzollerns so where did you get that idea? I am simply interested in many dynasties that’s all. I get that you were comparing the Hohenzollerns to the former royal house, but their situations aren’t necessarily the same.

Any official reactions from the British royal family or the other reigning houses? I saw the ones from Denmark and from Serbia, Russia, and Romania.

I haven’t seen an official response from the BRF and I don’t think we will see one.

 

[David Smith]

Obituaries appearing online state Prince Philip was King Constantine's uncle when actually they were first cousins once removed. There seems to be very little research done when writing such statements.

 

[Moran]

I agree very much! It is abolished, just as is the monarchy in Germany, and I am glad of it. I just hope that Pavlos will not claim another title such as " future king of Greece". I always resented their claim of being "crown prince and crown princess of Greece".
Those people just cannot accept that the monarchy has been abolished. I can understand that they want to keep their traditions and still want to play a role because of their history. Just like the Hohenzollerns in Germany.

They just don't want to vanish into nothing, but in a republic they just are not of importance anymore and have to accept it!

You should want them to play a role, then. Give them enough rope to hang themselves. Like Simeon did here in Bulgaria. We were actually in the ridiculous situation to have a former king who was also a Prime Minister. In fact, a KGB puppet which was proven not so long ago when he received a Metropolitan of the Russian Church here. Long story. But the more visible they are, the bigger role they play, the more they dig themselves in. And in countries where monarchy was abolished, no matter how undemocratically (it wasn't a legal transition here either), people aren't ready to put up with them for long.