Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

[star84]

Can anyone tell me when Peter and Autumn divorced? I know they announced their separation early last year and it takes two years to get divorced so I am wondering when the decree nisi was issued. Anyone know the date of that decree ... as that would say how long before the separation announcement they actually separated. It does seem strange to announce the separation part way through the divorce proceedings. Normally people announce the separation shortly after it happens or not at all and simply wait until the divorce absolute is finalised, as happened with Davina and Gary Lewis, before announcing anything.

From memory they announced it because the Daily Mail reported on their separation.

 

[Hallo girl]

Ver nice but how about his mother institutionalized

The writer was quoting a particular conversation.

His mother's story is well documented, in fact really interesting.

In today's paper there is a snippet about the advice Philip gave Catherine, about royal duties and that it is not celebrity and that you are known because of your role. Also never look at the camera, look at the person .

 

[Betsypaige]

I'm sorry if it's been posted before:

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/...hat-interview-madness-no-good-will-come-of-it

I admit initially I avoided it because the title (and it's Mail+), but a friend managed to force me to read it and ... fine, it's Gyles Brandreth and it's said to be an authorised biography so let's give it a go.



CH IG post tribute: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNnO9Ufg877/?igshid=38rgj3dja8uc

I subscribe to Mail Plus, so this makes me want to read the whole article.......from what I read here, it's a lovely tribute. Philip suffered much loss in his life, and I admire how he was able to move forward. I'm so glad that he and HM were able to spend so much time together in this last year or so.........

 

[Eskimo]

Autumn is divorced from Anne’s son Peter so, like Sarah Ferguson, It’s unlikely anyone thinks she will be there.

Autumn might have a relationship with Philip as she was the wife of his eldest grandchild for over a decade. It is common knowledge that the Duke was not a fan of Ms. Ferguson, so it makes sense why she might not be there.

 

[Iluvbertie]

From memory they announced it because the Daily Mail reported on their separation.

The separation has been announced but not the divorce. The only divorce that has been announced in recent years is that of Gary and Lady Davina Lewis.

The separation of Peter and Autumn along with that of David and Serena have been announced but not the divorces which would be a matter of public record.

 

[Somebody]

I just heard that the queen will no longer do solo visits/activities but will be accompanied by another senior member of the family. Was that confirmed by the palace?

Philip was retired for several years now and I can see why the family would intend to support her especially in the near future by joining up with her on her royal activities but I wondered whether this is just media speculation or the official new line.

 

[Osipi]

If this is official, I think it's a wonderful idea. Stresses even more what was said at the time of Philip's retirement that the "Firm" is "Team Windsor".

 

[Betsypaige]

I just heard that the queen will no longer do solo visits/activities but will be accompanied by another senior member of the family. Was that confirmed by the palace?

Philip was retired for several years now and I can see why the family would intend to support her especially in the near future by joining up with her on her royal activities but I wondered whether this is just media speculation or the official new line.

Reports are that HM will be accompanied by a Senior Royal on her engagements ...You can see on the cover that says “You’ll never walk alone” that it speaks to that. I believe this - I certainly think her family wants to be there for her.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1381877548443971587

 

[Iluvbertie]

They said that after Philip retired and guess what - she still carried out solo engagements as she has done since she was about 18.

I have also read, today, that she has denied that so what to believe? I think it will be a matter of wait and see.

 

[Betsypaige]

They said that after Philip retired and guess what - she still carried out solo engagements as she has done since she was about 18.

I have also read, today, that she has denied that so what to believe? I think it will be a matter of wait and see.

You can not compare the two situations. Back then, HM knew Philip was around and she could talk to him, visit him. Obviously his absence is now permanent now, and she’s grieving. Maybe it won’t be permanent, but I’m thinking it will be at least temporary. We’ll see.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I just heard that the queen will no longer do solo visits/activities but will be accompanied by another senior member of the family. Was that confirmed by the palace?

Philip was retired for several years now and I can see why the family would intend to support her especially in the near future by joining up with her on her royal activities but I wondered whether this is just media speculation or the official new line.

I don't think the Palace has confirmed it but it makes sense. We know the Queen is so hard working (apparently she had an engagement today https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hamberlain-Earl-Peel-death-Prince-Philip.html). She's about to turn 95 and Philip retired at 95, so I can imagine that they want to lessen her workload. Moreover, if she isn't feeling well, she would worry less about disappointing people if another senior royal will be there.

 

[yukari]

The writer was quoting a particular conversation.

His mother's story is well documented, in fact really interesting.

In today's paper there is a snippet about the advice Philip gave Catherine, about royal duties and that it is not celebrity and that you are known because of your role. Also never look at the camera, look at the person .

Do you mean this one?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-River-Pageant.html?__twitter_impression=true

It's Daily Mail, but it's also by Gyles Brandreth (it's different article than the one on Mail+. It mentions more anecdotes about Philip and certainly longer than the Mail+ one)

(...)

Prince Philip was a funny man who liked to laugh and make others laugh. Asked why he and the Queen hadn't sat in the throne-like chairs provided for them during the 2012 Jubilee River Pageant, his wry comment was: 'We'd have looked like Mr and Mrs Beckham, wouldn't we?'

He knew that he was often portrayed as 'a cantankerous old sod' (his phrase, not mine), but pointed out: 'You arrive somewhere and you go down that receiving line... I get two or three of them to laugh. Always.'

(...)

He read both the first and the second drafts of this book, but the only corrections he offered were to 'facts', not 'opinions' — and he always focused on detail.

His last letter to me, written from Windsor Castle, was full of characteristic dry humour and his trademark double exclamation marks (!!); it was signed 'Yours ever'. But I'm mindful of the former prime minister James Callaghan's observation: 'What senior royalty offer you is friendliness, not friendship. There's a difference.'

In the public arena, the Prince Philip you'd see — the outer man — was accessible (if a little forbidding), confident, bantering, outspoken.

The private Prince Philip — the inner man — was infinitely more difficult to reach. He was more sensitive, more thoughtful and more tolerant than you'd expect, but he kept these qualities hidden. His manner appeared open; his instinct was to be watchful.

Whoever you were, he didn't let you get too close. I said as much to him once. He replied briefly, smiling a wintry smile: 'It's safer that way.' Nevertheless, there were times when I felt like a proper friend, or as much of a friend as you can be with a man who is 30 years your senior and the husband of the head of state. Sitting alone with him in his library at Buckingham Palace, sharing a drink, I found him completely unstuffy.

(...)

He never talked openly about his feelings for the Queen, because that wasn't his style, but it was clear from his every action that he was fiercely protective of her. The essence of his life was to support her.

Little wonder that in the immediate aftermath of his death, millions have been moved by the realisation of just how much he meant to the Queen — and of how lonely the rest of her reign will inevitably be. The duke told me he wasn't afraid of dying. 'Death is part of life,' he said. 'You've got to face it. You've got to accept it — with a good grace.' He laughed. 'When you get to my age, there's a lot of it about.'

Death had been part of Prince Philip's life from the beginning. His grandfather, King George I of Greece, was assassinated a few years before he was born. His favourite sister, Cécile, was killed in an aeroplane accident when he was still a teenager.

His favourite uncle (and guardian), George Milford Haven, died of cancer soon afterwards. His father, Prince Andrew of Greece, died when Philip was just 23. His other favourite uncle, Earl Mountbatten of Burma, was murdered by the IRA in 1979.

'I'm quite ready to die,' the duke said to me. 'It's what happens — sooner or later.' Again, he smiled. 'I certainly don't want to hang on until I am 100, like Queen Elizabeth [the Queen Mother]. I can't imagine anything worse.

'I have absolutely no desire to cling on to life unnecessarily. Ghastly prospect.'

(...)

When Catherine Middleton came along as a potential bride for his grandson, the Duke of Edinburgh was, he told me, 'relieved to find her such a level-headed girl'.

But he refused to take any credit for the successful way in which Catherine has merged into the Royal Family — becoming a star, but somehow managing not to behave like a celebrity.

'If you believe the attention is for you personally,' he told me, 'you're going to end up in trouble. The attention is for your role, what you do, what you're supporting.

'It isn't for you as an individual. You are not a celebrity. You are representing the Royal Family. That's all.

'Don't look at the camera. The Queen never looks at the camera. Never.

'Look at who you're talking to. Look at what you've come to see. Diana looked at the camera.'

I have been on walkabout with the Duchess of Cambridge. And she never looks at the camera.

(...)

He cared more about his public image than you may imagine. Over the years, he'd been particularly distressed by the steady stream of stories about his supposed extra-marital love-life.

'Not long ago,' he wrote to me once, 'I was interviewed for one of the broadsheet magazines. It may interest you to know that, among several questions, the interviewer told me it was commonly believed that, and wanted me to say whether, I had any illegitimate children, my second son was fathered by someone else and I had a homosexual relationship with Giscard D'Estaing!!'

As he saw it, suing was never the answer: 'It's a cumbersome and costly process and gives more coverage to the libel. 'Queen's husband in court'— oh, yes? No smoke without fire . . .'
(...)

The bolded part is similar with what I heard about my great-grandma from a relative during her funeral. Seems like it's something typical about the wartime generation.

There's also part about his relationship with Sarah (Duchess of York) (or what he thought about her) near the end of the article.

*By "this book", he means the upcoming biography: "Philip: The Final Portrait" by Gyles Brandreth which will be published on April 27.

 

[Osipi]

I don't think the Palace has confirmed it but it makes sense. We know the Queen is so hard working (apparently she had an engagement today [B]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news...erlain-Earl-Peel-death-Prince-Philip.html[/B]). She's about to turn 95 and Philip retired at 95, so I can imagine that they want to lessen her workload. Moreover, if she isn't feeling well, she would worry less about disappointing people if another senior royal will be there.

This one sentence from the link says it all. "But, in a move that typifies the Queen's deep sense of duty, she returned early to bid farewell to Earl Peel - a key royal aide who is retiring after 14 years of service." This is a woman, in mourning, that has just lost the love of her life of over 80 years days ago but refuses to succumb to it and thinks of other people and her duty before herself. This is a woman with inner strength in abundance.

Both the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh have had a deep devotion not only to each other and their family but also to the people of their nation and to those that were in service to them that allowed them to do what they do smoothly. I bet Earl Peel was flabbergasted when the Queen showed up. I'm of a mind that he really probably didn't expect her to at all.

 

[Erin9]

The above was so interesting. All of it.

He gave Catherine good advice- (It sounds like he gave it anyway.), and she sure appears to have taken it.

ETA- I read the whole article. Well worth reading. I especially liked the part about Philip smiling and subtlety raising his glass to HM and her returning the gesture while they worked the room. I can see why it got the author’s attention too.

Oh- and very interesting that he thought suing was largely an expensive waste of time that just led to more publicity.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I have a question about people having to sit with those within their bubble. I would be heartbroken to see the Queen sitting alone. Would it be possible for her to sit with Edward and Sophie and then they could create a new bubble by moving in with the Queen for a while?

 

[Eskimo]

I have a question about people having to sit with those within their bubble. I would be heartbroken to see the Queen sitting alone. Would it be possible for her to sit with Edward and Sophie and then they could create a new bubble by moving in with the Queen for a while?

It’s interesting that a lot of people think the Queen is alone. She’s the Queen, she’s probably quarantined with staff that’s more close to her than most members of her extended family. That’s where her support is coming from. Prince Andrew has said that they’re really not that close knit a family and barely hang out with each other outside of official events.

 

[EllieCat]

"Philip: The Final Portrait" by Gyles Brandreth which will be published on April 27.

I think that would be a good book to add to my collection.

The Queen, taking time out of mourning for Lord Peel, was just amazing. She is really truly a wonderful monarch.

I do hope she doesn't have to sit alone at the funeral.

Prince Andrew has said that they’re really not that close knit a family and barely hang out with each other outside of official events.

He might not, but I always understood the Wessexes always visited The Queen at weekends when she was at Windsor. Of course none of us really know about the family's private connection.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen is in a bubble that includes Philip's private secretary who will be at the funeral so he will probably be the person sitting closest to her. He has been part of HMS Bubble since it formed in March 2020 at the start of the pandemic.

 

[Betsypaige]

The above was so interesting. All of it.

He gave Catherine good advice- (It sounds like he gave it anyway.), and she sure appears to have taken it.

ETA- I read the whole article. Well worth reading. I especially liked the part about Philip smiling and subtlety raising his glass to HM and her returning the gesture while they worked the room. I can see why it got the author’s attention too.

Oh- and very interesting that he thought suing was largely an expensive waste of time that just led to more publicity.

What a brilliant article/excerpt. I do so admire Philip for always remaining who he was...

I’m so glad the excerpt included his reaction to the film that Charles did in tribute to his mother; I’m glad he got to see how their eldest felt about them. It can be difficult to express your true feelings to those you love, so you do it indirectly...

I suspect Philip was the opposite of unfeeling, but in addition to coming from a generation of men that weren’t especially emotional, he very likely learned to bury his feelings in order to survive the pain of his childhood.

I can’t wait to see that PBS special ...

 

[Betsypaige]

I think that would be a good book to add to my collection.

The Queen, taking time out of mourning for Lord Peel, was just amazing. She is really truly a wonderful monarch.

I do hope she doesn't have to sit alone at the funeral.



He might not, but I always understood the Wessexes always visited The Queen at weekends when she was at Windsor. Of course none of us really know about the family's private connection.

Also, the Senior royals are so busy - they don’t really have a chance to truly just hang out with each other...

 

[Queen Ester]

Gayle king’s comment was the height of rudeness. If you are not told how or why someone died then don’t ask, it’s private and you are obviously not close enough to have that information.
I have lost all respect for Oprah after her “interview “.

That was just bad journalism. She is looking for sensation.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

My apologies. You are of course correct: her middle child is still alive.

And thanks for the information on Dorothea's (herself a daughter of Philip's sister Sophie) daughter Marina, I consulted 'thepeerage.com' and no husband or children were mentioned for her. For the De Waela-children, only one entrance was found and included in my previous post. So, if I understand it correctly, Clarissa (Dorothea's other daughter) had two more children after Michel, among which a girl.

What are the names of Clarissa's last two children?

 

[Sam Flin]

I just buried my father, so I understand how devastating it is to have to decide who can and can’t attend the funeral service (due to Covid restrictions). And it’s sad that any of his loved ones have to be excluded from saying their goodbyes.

You have my sympathy, Soapstar. I will be burying my own father this Saturday as well, but we will not have to worry about any Covid restrictions. I cannot imagine having to try and do what you and the Royal Family are doing at this time and restrict guest lists so severely that you have to choose which members of your family can go. It just adds an additional element of awefulness to an already awful situation.

 

[LauraS3514]

I’m sure CNN and MSNBC will cover it, and possibly the main networks. I normally flip between the first two, but something I found out has turned me off CNN, maybe permanently. I also don’t trust US networks to cover this appropriately, so I’m going to hope that BBC America covers it...maybe PBS

Wow, people are complaining about over coverage of Prince Philip?




https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56703437

I know that ABC will be covering it as David Muir has mentioned it several times when doing stories about Philip on the nightly news. I personally will be watching it on the BBC News Channel carried by my satellite company.

 

[Meee]

I did wonder where Andrew would sit at the funeral. Given that his daughters are both married, they could only sit with their husbands if they were attending (or Eugenie could also sit with Harry if he is staying with her.) I suspect he will have used the test and release scheme by then so as to allow him to get back to Meghan as soon as possible after the funeral, so won’t distance from anyone he is staying with. I don’t know when she is due but presumably it is not around early July as Harry had planned to be there for his mother’s memorial and won’t want to miss his daughter’s birth either.

As far as I can see, that leaves Andrew sitting alone or with The Queen (HM is sadly now entitled to a bubble, as HMS Bubble by the legislation are in her household in the course of their work rather than as a support bubble.) Charles, Anne and Edward will have their spouses so do they make Andrew sit alone for PR reasons as undoubtedly some will believe that he should be punished in that way, or he sit with his mother (I saw something about her relying heavily on him since Philip’s passing.)

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I did wonder where Andrew would sit at the funeral. Given that his daughters are both married, they could only sit with their husbands if they were attending (or Eugenie could also sit with Harry if he is staying with her.) I suspect he will have used the test and release scheme by then so as to allow him to get back to Meghan as soon as possible after the funeral, so won’t distance from anyone he is staying with. I don’t know when she is due but presumably it is not around early July as Harry had planned to be there for his mother’s memorial and won’t want to miss his daughter’s birth either.

As far as I can see, that leaves Andrew sitting alone or with The Queen (HM is sadly now entitled to a bubble, as HMS Bubble by the legislation are in her household in the course of their work rather than as a support bubble.) Charles, Anne and Edward will have their spouses so do they make Andrew sit alone for PR reasons as undoubtedly some will believe that he should be punished in that way, or he sit with his mother (I saw something about her relying heavily on him since Philip’s passing.)

St George's Chapel with its high ceilings has a normal capacity of 800.
So it is a "gigantic" venue, in relation to maximum of thirty guests.

I am sure all 30 will manage to find a seat with respect to distance rules.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I wonder if Prince Philips private secretary (Brigadier Archie Miller-Bakewell) really is a part of the bubble at Windsor Castle... What would he have done ? Acted as a companion to Philip ? Philip retired from royal duties in 2017 and has not been following The Queen’s household since then until the Covid-19 outbreak... Up until then he spent most of his time at Wood Farm...

I don’t think we should read too much into The Queen sitting alone or not... She may even want to sit alone... The Queen Mother said the day after her husbands death in 1952 ”i better get used to it now”... Perhaps that’s how QEII also feels...

 

[tommy100]

I suspect he probably is, or has been, part of the bubble at Windsor Castle. We know the Queen's Private Secretary and/or deputies have been so I don't see why Philip's won't have been. I know Philip was 'retired' but I think to the RF a Private Secretary is more than just the 'official' side of work, they probably also help out with a lot of private stuff too. I would imagine even if Philip's Private Secretary hadn't been in HMS Bubble before, he would have been once Philip came out of hospital.

All of that however, doesn't mean that HM will necessarily be sitting with him. We should also remember that the Queen is quite pragmatic about things and I suspect she'll take some comfort from having "HMS Bubble" around her knowing it is more than some people in her position would have.

 

[Curryong]

It says here that the Brigadier acted as Prince Philip’s representative especially at memorials (presumably military ones) he could no longer attend. Perhaps he also kept in touch with the many charities with which Philip was once involved.

https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/phili...uests-permitted-to-attend-his-funeral-158257/

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I wonder if Prince Philips private secretary (Brigadier Archie Miller-Bakewell) really is a part of the bubble at Windsor Castle... What would he have done ? Acted as a companion to Philip ? Philip retired from royal duties in 2017 and has not been following The Queen’s household since then until the Covid-19 outbreak... Up until then he spent most of his time at Wood Farm...

I don’t think we should read too much into The Queen sitting alone or not... She may even want to sit alone... The Queen Mother said the day after her husbands death in 1952 ”i better get used to it now”... Perhaps that’s how QEII also feels...

A private secretary, the name already says it.

It is known that when the end is near, people start to collect, destroy, distributre, earmark, label lots of things, to have it sorted out as much as possible.

It is known that sometimes royals ordered their private secretary to have fires outside (anno 2021 it will be shredders inside) so they could burn correspondence and items which they refuse to share with the world.

Recently we learned that the late Prince Bernhard was exhausting his private secretary in his final months in 2004 with extremely detailed lists: item Nr 73 Patek Philippe Aviator horloge 1936 has to go to ....., item Nr 274 Hermès silk/cashmere scarf 1951 has to go to ....., item Nr 781 Cartier platinum cufflinks with sapphire centrestone 1973 has to go to ....., item Nr 801 Pommery Cuvée Louise champagne rose (48 bottles) has to go to ....., Etc. Etc. Etc.

If the Duke of Edinburgh had the same activity in his last months, it certainly was a busy bubble with his private secretary.