Princess Beatrice: Relationships Musings and Suggestions

[Osipi]

IIRC you can get married anywhere as long as the wedding venue is registered for worships and marriages

Well, to fit the bill for being married in a palace/castle, there's always the private chapel at Windsor Castle where Archie was baptized at. Of course that would mean a very itsy, bitsy, teeny, weeny wedding with just a few people. I don't think that would be acceptable by anyone let alone the bride and groom.

 

[Heavs]

IIRC you can get married anywhere as long as the wedding venue is registered for worships and marriages

Sure, I just think it's highly likely they'll have a church wedding. And if it's not then probably not televised. That would be funny to watch on TV though.

Italian aristocratic titles were abolished under the Italian constitution of 1948. Many former noble families have continued to use them without official recognition, but I do not know if Edo Mapelli Mozzi has ever done so.

As far as I can tell he's never done so. If he had wanted to be known by it he certainly could use it in the UK or Italy whether it's recognised or not like so many do and there's been no indication that the press have been asked to start referring to him like that. In fact it seems his step father's connections and his step father in general have been more important to him.

 

[sndral]

St. George’s is uniquely convenient for the Yorks since Grandma can host the wedding breakfast at the castle and both of Beatrice’s parents live in Windsor and can host the several after parties at Royal Lodge.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I think Beatrice's wedding (should it take place) will be similar to the scale of Eugenie's wedding - so it will be televised, but won't be a massive occasion like the Sussex or Cambridge weddings were though most of the immediate family should be there IMO.
Is Edo's family known in Italy at all? I wonder if there'll be some Italian coverage if they're famous there.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Given the advance age of the queen and Duke St Georges chapel Windsor is the most obvious but I agree it would be really nice to see a daughter of the duke of York married at York Minster.

 

[Dman]

Wouldn't they require a church wedding? The church for that would be St. George's. Has their ever been a wedding let alone a televised one in the State Rooms instead in recent memory?

The royals, back in the old days, are known to have married in the palaces and castles rooms as well. It’s an idea outside of the box.

 

[Spheno]

Not trying to get too caught up in the speculation, but wouldn’t it be nice to see a televised old fashioned palace wedding? Perhaps at Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle wedding. Done in one of the big state rooms.

On 17 February, Clarence House announced the marriage's change of venue from Windsor Castle to the Windsor Guildhall, immediately outside the walls of the castle. This substitution came about when it was discovered that the legal requirements for licensing the royal castle for civil weddings would require opening it up to other prospective couples for at least three years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_of_Prince_Charles_and_Camilla_Parker_Bowles

 

[Osipi]

I remember that happening with Charles and Camilla's wedding. However, I very seriously doubt that should Beatrice marry, that she and Edo (or whomever) would have a civil wedding.

The private chapel at Windsor Castle would meet all the requirements for a royal wedding but there just wouldn't be space for many to attend. I still think St. George's Chapel would be the best choice all around. Its where Charles and Camilla had their wedding blessed after the civil ceremony.

 

[Spheno]

I remember that happening with Charles and Camilla's wedding. However, I very seriously doubt that should Beatrice marry, that she and Edo (or whomever) would have a civil wedding.

The main word was "wedding", not "civil".

Can we get married anywhere?

Short answer? No.
“In England and Wales it’s the place, not the person, that’s licensed for marriage,” says wedding planner Kathryn Lloyd. “The venue must be a permanent structure with a roof, approved for marriage and accessible to anyone to book for their marriage. You can have a non-legal blessing at home, but for it to be considered legal you would also need to have a civil or church ceremony.”

https://www.youandyourwedding.co.uk...he-legal-requirements-for-marriage-in-the-uk/

 

[Leopoldine]

Do you think there is a possibility that HM will not go to this wedding because of Edo's child out of wedlock? The Yorks do seem to challenge her establishment values with their choices.

 

[Osipi]

The main word was "wedding", not "civil".


https://www.youandyourwedding.co.uk...he-legal-requirements-for-marriage-in-the-uk/

Thanks for the clarification on this as it is confusing for me. I have no idea whether or not a royal peculiar was exempt from this. I guess its the part where it says "accessible to anyone to book for their marriage" is what would put the kibosh on it.

Thanks Spheno!

 

[Heavs]

Do you think there is a possibility that HM will not go to this wedding because of Edo's child out of wedlock? The Yorks do seem to challenge her establishment values with their choices.

No. Both personally as a grandmother and formally as the Queen and head of the Church of England, I think the only reason she wouldn't go is if she fell ill. In recent years her son has married his mistress and her grandson married a divorced woman and she was at the blessing of one and the wedding of the other, lots of living together before marriage officially in royal residences.... I can't think she'd draw the line at this.

I think every single one of her children have challenged her alleged values over the decades and she has publicly adapted. And whilst Andrew and Sarah have done more than their fair share, her granddaughters haven't. It's STILL supposed to be true that she's especially fond of Andrew.

 

[Leopoldine]

Thank you, Heavs. I needed some perspective and context.

 

[JR76]

The Yorks do seem to challenge her establishment values with their choices.

What choices? Beatrice and Eugenie aren't the ones of Queen Elizabeth's grandchildren that have been photographed naked in hotel rooms, worn Nazi uniforms to costume parties or been accused of cashing in on their grandmother's 90th birthday. Their parents might be dingbats, but what have the girls ever done wrong?

Reading my post again I might sound more aggressive than I intended. Sorry [emoji87]

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

What choices? Beatrice and Eugenie aren't the ones of Queen Elizabeth's grandchildren that have been photographed naked in hotel rooms, worn Nazi uniforms to costume parties or been accused of cashing in on their grandmother's 90th birthday. Their parents might be dingbats, but what have the girls ever done wrong?

Reading my post again I might sound more aggressive than I intended. Sorry [emoji87]

No I don't think you're aggressive at all. In fact your point hits right at the truth for me. Beatrice and Eugenie have really been respectable for years but are always burdened with the mistakes of their parents. While some now harp on hate against certain members in the family, these two have been nit-picked and belittled for years. I'm happy it seems like since Eugenie's wedding the press have backed off and hopefully after Beatrice's, the girls charity work will be correctly covered.

 

[JR76]

No I don't think you're aggressive at all. In fact your point hits right at the truth for me.

I'm glad since it was never my intention to be a bitch haha

I'm happy it seems like since Eugenie's wedding the press have backed off and hopefully after Beatrice's, the girls charity work will be correctly covered.

They do a lot of charity work and I, like you, hope it gets the attention it deserves.

 

[Madame Verseau]

@JR76 - the elephant in the room would be Andrew's ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Court documents are scheduled to be unsealed and if Andrew's involvement in that sordid mess goes beyond what has already been reported it has the potential of casting a pall on an engagement and wedding.

 

[theroyalfly]

Yes, that makes him a count though since UK doesn't recognise foreign titles of nobility it's not a title that he can use officially.

Yes indeed. They both look good together. It's nice to know that both families are well-acquainted with each other.

Do you think Edo will be given an earldom by the Queen?

 

[VictoriaB]

Yes indeed. They both look good together. It's nice to know that both families are well-acquainted with each other.

Do you think Edo will be given an earldom by the Queen?

No. We went through this with Jack. Personally I think pigs are more likely to be seen in a holding pattern over Windsor than the Queen is to give Edo, Jack or Louise's husband an Earldom.

If her daughter can be plain Mrs Phillips or Mrs Lawrence, Zara plain Mrs Tindall and Eugenie plain Mrs Brooksbank, Beatrice can be plain Mrs whatever.

To flip the question round though, why do you think the Queen should give Edo an Earldom?

 

[theroyalfly]

No. We went through this with Jack. Personally I think pigs are more likely to be seen in a holding pattern over Windsor than the Queen is to give Edo, Jack or Louise's husband an Earldom.

If her daughter can be plain Mrs Phillips or Mrs Lawrence, Zara plain Mrs Tindall and Eugenie plain Mrs Brooksbank, Beatrice can be plain Mrs whatever.

To flip the question round though, why do you think the Queen should give Edo an Earldom?

I don't think there was a problem with my question. You seem a little pressed. ?

It's an enduring tradition for monarchs to give hereditary peerage to family members. Antony Armstrong-Jones was given an earldom a year after his marriage to Princess Margaret. Sir Angus Ogilvy was offered an earldom too on his wedding to Princess Alexandra but declined.

And the list goes on..........

I don't think Princess Anne's husbands were not offered too or maybe you know something that I don't know.

 

[Heavs]

I don't think there was a problem with my question. You seem a little pressed. ?

It's an enduring tradition for monarchs to give hereditary peerage to family members. Antony Armstrong-Jones was given an earldom a year after his marriage to Princess Margaret. Sir Angus Ogilvy was offered an earldom too on his wedding to Princess Alexandra but declined.

And the list goes on..........

I don't think Princess Anne's husbands were not offered too or maybe you know something that I don't know.

No. If Beatrice and Edo ever want him to have a title, he'll have to start using his own, which whilst non't legal anywhere people would still use and respect.

The examples you site were in the 1960s and in one case refused and times have changed. And I'm not sure there's any definitive proof Mark Phillips was ever offered anything and IIRC lots of talk about how Tim Laurence wasn't. He's earned other honours since then. I think Mike Tindall would be closer to earning a knighthood for services to sport than anyone just for marrying a granddaughter. There's more chance she'll announce The Duke of York title will be recreated for Beatrice on her father's death, and there's no chance of that.

It obviously has lots of historical precedent but would needlessly very controversial, especially if Andrew is mired in the Epstein case at the time.

 

[Denville]

I don't think there was a problem with my question. You seem a little pressed. ?

It's an enduring tradition for monarchs to give hereditary peerage to family members. Antony Armstrong-Jones was given an earldom a year after his marriage to Princess Margaret. Sir Angus Ogilvy was offered an earldom too on his wedding to Princess Alexandra but declined.

And the list goes on..........

I don't think Princess Anne's husbands were not offered too or maybe you know something that I don't know.

It has not been a tradition for a long time and would not be expected or accepted today. Its believed that the queen did want Mark Phillips to have a title.. when Anne was pregnant but Anne was very much against the idea nad so was Mark so it did not happen. And by then in the late 1970s, I think the public would have been against the idea.. so it is not going to happen any more...

 

[VictoriaB]

I don't think there was a problem with my question. You seem a little pressed. ?

It's an enduring tradition for monarchs to give hereditary peerage to family members. Antony Armstrong-Jones was given an earldom a year after his marriage to Princess Margaret. Sir Angus Ogilvy was offered an earldom too on his wedding to Princess Alexandra but declined.

And the list goes on..........

I don't think Princess Anne's husbands were not offered too or maybe you know something that I don't know.

But times change. In the 1960s the idea of a Princess NOT marrying a title was a different proposition than now. In the 1960s I don’t think William and Harry would have been allowed to marry Catherine or Meghan and Charles certainly would not have been allowed to marry Camilla.

I’m sorry if I sounded pressed. You are being kind, I sounded much more bitchy than that. It is the end of a long day, I’m tired and I should have counted to ten before hitting send (not that that’s any excuse). Any irritation comes simply from the fact this same topic was debated when Eugenie married Jack. Beatrice is in the same position as her sister and Zara. Neither Jack nor Mike were offered titles (that we know of). You asked a very civil question and I answered very uncivilly. My apologies to you.

Truth be told I abhor hereditary titles. I don’t think they have place in modern life. I don’t have a problem with the honours list or with life peerages - whether I think they have earned them or not, the people to whom they awarded have done something to earn them. I would also be against a life peerage for Edo, Jack or anyone else simply for getting married.

But on topic, if Edo & Beatrice are in love I hope they do marry. Beatrice seems like a lovely young woman. I would wish her nothing but happiness.

 

[Heavs]

No I don't think you're aggressive at all. In fact your point hits right at the truth for me. Beatrice and Eugenie have really been respectable for years but are always burdened with the mistakes of their parents. While some now harp on hate against certain members in the family, these two have been nit-picked and belittled for years. I'm happy it seems like since Eugenie's wedding the press have backed off and hopefully after Beatrice's, the girls charity work will be correctly covered.

I think it's great that they're being recognised as doing something other than partying and holidaying, and their parents substitute punching bags. It used to be you'd only know anything about Eugenie's patronages and other charity work through her Instagram, it was reported nowhere else, now it is. That said I do think it's been part of a deliberate York PR push since the success of the wedding - lots of very sympathetic articles about the family as a whole in Hello! and People.

 

[theroyalfly]

No. If Beatrice and Edo ever want him to have a title, he'll have to start using his own, which whilst non't legal anywhere people would still use and respect. The examples you site were in the 1960s and in one case refused and times have changed. And I'm not sure there's any definitive proof Mark Phillips was ever offered anything and IIRC lots of talk about how Tim Laurence wasn't. He's earned other honours since then. I think Mike Tindall would be closer to earning a knighthood for services to sport than anyone just for marrying a granddaughter. There's more chance she'll announce The Duke of York title will be recreated for Beatrice on her father's death, and there's no chance of that. It obviously has lots of historical precedent but would needlessly very controversial, especially if Andrew is mired in the Epstein case at the time.

Indeed.

Actually I also hope so.

It has not been a tradition for a long time and would not be expected or accepted today. Its believed that the queen did want Mark Phillips to have a title.. when Anne was pregnant but Anne was very much against the idea nad so was Mark so it did not happen. And by then in the late 1970s, I think the public would have been against the idea.. so it is not going to happen any more...

You said it right. Time's are changing.

 

[theroyalfly]

But times change. In the 1960s the idea of a Princess NOT marrying a title was a different proposition than now. In the 1960s I don’t think William and Harry would have been allowed to marry Catherine or Meghan and Charles certainly would not have been allowed to marry Camilla.

I’m sorry if I sounded pressed. You are being kind, I sounded much more bitchy than that. It is the end of a long day, I’m tired and I should have counted to ten before hitting send (not that that’s any excuse). Any irritation comes simply from the fact this same topic was debated when Eugenie married Jack. Beatrice is in the same position as her sister and Zara. Neither Jack nor Mike were offered titles (that we know of). You asked a very civil question and I answered very uncivilly. My apologies to you.

Truth be told I abhor hereditary titles. I don’t think they have place in modern life. I don’t have a problem with the honours list or with life peerages - whether I think they have earned them or not, the people to whom they awarded have done something to earn them. I would also be against a life peerage for Edo, Jack or anyone else simply for getting married.

But on topic, if Edo & Beatrice are in love I hope they do marry. Beatrice seems like a lovely young woman. I would wish her nothing but happiness.

Don't worry. It's no big deal. I just asked that question because Princess Beatrice is the first-born of the Duke and since she's a woman she will not be able to inherit her father's title.

I find it to have more sense of urgency to bring up than her younger sister Eugenie.

But yes, time's are changing but I hope for the best for Edo and Beatrice. They are lovely people.

 

[MARG]

No. We went through this with Jack. Personally I think pigs are more likely to be seen in a holding pattern over Windsor than the Queen is to give Edo, Jack or Louise's husband an Earldom.

If her daughter can be plain Mrs Phillips or Mrs Lawrence, Zara plain Mrs Tindall and Eugenie plain Mrs Brooksbank, Beatrice can be plain Mrs whatever.

To flip the question round though, why do you think the Queen should give Edo an Earldom?

Actually, Anne is not plain anything but rather HRH Anne, Princess Royal, Mrs Lawrence. Since titles do not pass down the maternal side in the UK RF unless Anne married a man with a title of his own she would carry her own but it does not pass to her son or daughter.

Princess Margaret's husband was the last daughter of a monarch to marry a commoner and have her husband given a title, I believe Anne based her choice on that marriage. I think she was upfront that anyone she married was getting her and nothing else, a sort of confirmation of real love and not a title and a Manor House!

I think and that Anne has always been a stickler for "proper" royal tradition and was making a name for herself Eventing. Any recognition she got she earned.

Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie are in exactly the same position as Anne, and with Anne having opted for continuity it would have been surprising if Jack had been given a title when he married Eugenie and Beatrice is in the same boat. Andrew's title will revert to the crown when he dies as he has no son to inherit it for all several ladies of the aristocracy have tried to challenge the laws of inheritance.

 

[JR76]

Angus Ogilvy was later quoted as saying that he regretted turning down an earldom since he felt that it had set a precedence for Princess Anne doing the same. He did not like the prospect of the grandchildren of a monarch being without titles.

 

[Biri]

But he was born untitled; it's his father (Sir Angus Ogilvy) who turned down the earldom when marrying Princess Alexandra of Kent.

 

[theroyalfly]

James Ogilvy was later quoted as saying that he regretted turning down an earldom since he felt that it had set a precedence for Princess Anne doing the same. He did not like the prospect of the grandchildren of a monarch being without titles.

Oh that's so sweet of him. But did you confuse him with his father, Angus?

I actually don't mind the royals having titles that's why I also asked from the start if Edo would most likely be granted one provided that The Duke of York's title will only merge with the Crown when he dies.

I asked it because I think Beatrice deserves it as the first-born.