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  #101  
Old 07-23-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Isn't that a family tree, not a legal document?
.
Yes, despite the fact that Edo does not style himself as Count, others do.
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  #102  
Old 07-23-2020, 12:34 PM
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Oh well. Whether or not he is "allowed" to use his title or not, Edo is an undisputed aristocrat, descended from kings.

His line stretches back just as far or even further than his bride's(for people who care about that)

If he and Beatrice have no sons, will the Mapelli-Mozzi title and properties go to Christopher Woolf?
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  #103  
Old 07-23-2020, 12:57 PM
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Since the title does not exist, legally i cant see how it woudl go to anyone....
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  #104  
Old 07-23-2020, 01:22 PM
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Legal or not...the title will continue. Alessandro Mapelli-Mozzi insisted it will shortly before his son's wedding.

The "illegality" of the Greek Royal titles has not impeded Constantine and his children and grandchildren from using them. Ditto the Hanovers.
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  #105  
Old 07-23-2020, 01:31 PM
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Some families still make a big deal about titles only going to "legitimate" heirs, even if the titles themselves are merely fiction. I have no idea what the Mapelli Mozzi family do. Wolfie could call himself whatever he likes considering there's nothing legal or illegal about it.

Theoretically *all* his children could call themselves "Counts/Countesses" socially but Italian nobility conventions. I doubt they will though.

Quote:
Oh well. Whether or not he is "allowed" to use his title or not, Edo is an undisputed aristocrat, descended from kings.
A lot of people can trace their ancestry back to kings, further back than the current BRF (my uncle claims we do ) but in this case he certainly is very upper class/aristocrat on both sides.

Quote:
The Republic of Italy does not recognise titles of nobility but that does not mean that the nobility and their titles have gone away. It's still there and many families retain their wealth, their status and use their titles socially. Nobody in Italy would find it strange if Edo used his title in and, British legislators aside, neither would most other Europeans.
Most people in the UK wouldn't bat an eye lid either at someone with a title or ask to see the LPs before agreeing to use it. It's just that they aren't legally usable in either the UK *or* Italy. It's not as if Edo uses Count MM everywhere (or his sister calling herself Contessa) but BP insisted on only calling him "Mr."

Personally I do find it a little affected and meaningless, once it gets to the point that nobody now alive was born when the titles were actually legal to keep using them but each to their own. Titles aren't innate in a person, they were given to some families by the government (King) and taken away by another (republic usually). I get that there's a hell of a lot of history, lineage, pride and feeling there that doesn't go away, but that's what it boils down to.
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  #106  
Old 07-23-2020, 01:42 PM
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I think the matter is quite simple - as we already know, Italian noble titles were abolished and have no legal recognition. However, they are still used as courtesy titles by those who are entitled to do so and by those who wish to refer to them in that way.

Since Edoardo doesn't refer to himself in that way, it is rather an academic issue.
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  #107  
Old 07-23-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Oh well. Whether or not he is "allowed" to use his title or not, Edo is an undisputed aristocrat, descended from kings.

His line stretches back just as far or even further than his bride's(for people who care about that)

If he and Beatrice have no sons, will the Mapelli-Mozzi title and properties go to Christopher Woolf?
Since Edo wasn't married to Woolfie's mother, I don't think he would be entitled to the title "Count," even if Edo had a legal right to it (which he doesn't).

I should also point that the original title only extended to male members of the family. In other words, while Edo's grandfather Gian Paolo and his brothers were all Counts, their sisters weren't Countesses.

Finally, Edo's grandfather Gian Paolo was a second son, so presumably any family property was inherited by the older son and his descendants.
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  #108  
Old 07-23-2020, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Oh well. Whether or not he is "allowed" to use his title or not, Edo is an undisputed aristocrat, descended from kings.

His line stretches back just as far or even further than his bride's(for people who care about that)

If he and Beatrice have no sons, will the Mapelli-Mozzi title and properties go to Christopher Woolf?

Unlike in the British peerage, all male children of an Italian count were normally counts themselves. That applies only to legitimate children though.


In some countries that have a similar system of nobility, for example the Netherlands, legitimized children (i.e. children born out of wedlock who can legally use their biological father's family name) are now allowed to inherit titles of nobility too, see the Law on the Nobility of 1994. In the Italian republic, however, the nobility has been abolished and is no longer regulated by public law, so there is no legal rule about the mode of transmission of titles. If we go by the pre-1946 rules, I suspect Woolf would be excluded as an illegitimate son.
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  #109  
Old 11-19-2020, 03:31 PM
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I hope this belongs here. Today is the 37th Birthday of Count Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi, aka Edo Mapelli Mozzi, husband of 4 months to Pss Beatrice of York. A very happy Birthday Edo.
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