"Spare" memoir by the Duke of Sussex (2023)

[Royalist.in.NC]

Do you mean this one?
Therapist Julia Samuel: ‘We shouldn’t be venting all our feelings to all people’ (paywall)

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Thanks for sharing this article! This is a therapist who knows her stuff, so to speak. I like how she gives great practical suggestions for setting boundaries between work and home through using visualization.
It doesn’t sound like Harry consulted with her, unfortunately, before publishing his book. So much of what he wrote should have stayed in the container between Harry and a skilled therapist IMHO.

 

[Mirabel]

What I most observed about the book is how contradictory it is.
Harry says his father's office asked for a retraction about the "accident" story and was told to "sod off."

But later he thinks his father could easily order the press like he orders his valet!

He mentions how his father was not suited to be a single parent, then refers to the hours his father spent teaching him to drive, the many times they went to see Shakespeare at Stratford, etc. etc.

So, which is it?

 

[Denville]

What I most observed about the book is how contradictory it is.
Harry says his father's office asked for a retraction about the "accident" story and was told to "sod off."

But later he thinks his father could easily order the press like he orders his valet!

He mentions how his father was not suited to be a single parent, then refers to the hours his father spent teaching him to drive, the many times they went to see Shakespeare at Stratford, etc. etc.

So, which is it?

I think he knows that in the US, Charles is often seen as the man who made Diana miserable, so he can bash him and say nasty things about him.. but the truth is that even if Ch wasn't suited to being a single parent, he DID do his best for his sons and tried to spend time with them in the years after Diana died. but when he finds that Dad is unwilling or unable to do what Harry wants, he turns nasty on him. He does genuinely seem pretty stupid, if he really thinks that Charles can order the press around, as he does his valet.

 

[Heavs]

The King made no mention of Archie and Lili in his speech. Here is a link

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...ew-monarch#:~:text=“And to my darling Mama,'”

“I want also to express my love for Harry and Meghan as they continue to build their lives overseas." Nothing about the children. As far as I am aware he has not made any reference to Archie and Lili in any of his speeches since becoming King.

My mistake, I could have sworn there was a line about their family in there. Oh well, memory can play tricks on you, said the prince who claims he was at school when he heard of his great grandmother's death when there is video footage of him in Klosters and news reports that HLM gave special permission for them to travel together!

I think my larger point still stands, that the King announced William and Kate as PPOW immediately, not letting there be any room for debate, even announcing that he wished for the role to (continue to) be the royal version of an activist. If he wished Archie and Lili to be HRH Prince/ss then he would have made it known, perhaps not in his speech but via press release or even just "it is now known that Charles wishes..." via whichever reporter he wanted.

About the children’s titles, my take is like this: before Meghan’s appearance, the plan was to have either LPs to change the rule or to have the future children abstain from using the titles. After her accusations, every plan was changed. At the time of their birth, the children were legally lord Dumbarton and lady Lilibet. After Charles’ ascension they are legally hrh prince and princess, but the king is tacitly using the Sussexes’ statement made at the time when Archie was born that he will be known as master Archie and, by extension, miss Lilibet. I believe Charles does not want and does not need to disturb this fragile balance where the result is as he always wanted: a slimmed down monarchy.

To be fair that has been a recurring discussion in royal watching circles since Edward and Sophie's 1999 wedding and nothing has ever been officially cleared up except that "Sovereign's Will" conquers all however it is expressed, there's no parliamentary process. Perhaps this time it will be expressed by not announcing anything?

 

[Granada]

Does anyone know if Harry addressed the issue of Prince and Princess Titles for his children in the Book ?

Seeing that issue, and FALSE claims of no security for Archie, AND his "skin color" was the "money shot" in The Oprah Propaganda, I mean Interview, wouldn't that be curious ?

 

[kimebear]

Now they've moved to the US, which is a republic and their children will be reared as Americans, so why would they want them to use or have HRH titles?

Why do they have a welcome mat with their royal monogram at the entrance to their American home?? Because they like being TRH the Duke and Duchess of Sussex very much. Doesn't sound like parents who don't want their children to be prince/princess to me.

 

[Alison H]

When Archie was born, they refused to pose for photos on the steps of the hospital, refused to issue a formal announcement of the birth (we got Harry wittering instead), only gave him two forenames; and, along with the rejection of the Earl of Dumbarton title, that all gave the impression that they didn't want their children to be treated as senior royals. Which would have been quite fair enough, if that was what they wanted. But then they started with the lies about Archie having been denied styles and titles to which he was never entitled in the first place. They just keep contradicting themselves, over and over.

I'd also be interested to know if the book mentions the children's titles, but I'm assuming that it doesn't, as it hasn't been mentioned anywhere.

 

[valeas]

Just found this brilliant man on yt, guess some know him already.
His conclusions are detailed and brilliant, he really knows his job.

 

[Somebody]

But Harry has set up the invictus games didn't he?
He must be able to have a job, it does not have to be a 09.00 to 5.00 job.
I think the problem is that he was never prepared for it. Because it was always different in the British royal family. But what they created are people like Andrew and Harry who were once number 2 and because of the crown prince having children drop to below number 10 or so. It is okay if that is the choice of the family or the system. But it did not work out very well for Andrew, Harry and Margareth. Anne is okay and Edward as well. But they were never as high in the pecking order.
People are saying there are not enough working members for all the charities etc. But that is a choice you make. You don't have to support every single charity there is.
Charles and William really need to think how they want to reshape the monarchy. But something has to happen. I think it is a good thing that Charlotte and Louis are prepared for a working live outside the royal firm. That doesn't mean they won't be seen anymore.. Constantijn and his cousins are always present at kings day. But more a marginal role.
And they should break the ties with the tabloids or al least be not to afraid of them. And the british people should stop reading those rubbish tabloids
Anyway just some thoughts....
Harry is a hot mess.. the book is awfull.. his attacks on his family are beyond believe...he does not take any responsiblity.. he has no selfreflection. But to be very honest... he is also a product of his upbringing ( of course of course he has his own responsiblity.. I don't blame Charles for what Harry is doing now) and he has not chosen the best wife. she is enhancing his drama instead of calming him down. I think Catherine is a much better choice, maybe because of her upbringing. I have the feeling she is really the better half of William.

Anne was her brother's spare for 10 years. At that point they didn't know that she would have 2 brothers entering the line of succession ahead of her. So, unlike Harry she was second in line to the throne for several years.

He had the idea for the Invictus Games possibly, but some say it was the brainchild of his aide Edward Lane Fox. Im sure Harry sincerely cares for veterans but he's not involved in it on a day to day basis by any means.
as for a job, Harry is not IMO capable of any particular job... He spent some years in the army but seems to have come out of it with some odd ideas about what is acceptable to talk about, and he's attacked seinor officers... some of whom have criticised him for his talking about his kills etc.
however, he did not seem to wish to stay in the army, as an instructor or in a desk job and left, while he could have put in some more years as an officer.

As hallo girl explained the Invictus Games were inspired by thr Warrior Games, so the extend of Harry's idea was to create an international version of an American event.

My mistake, I could have sworn there was a line about their family in there. Oh well, memory can play tricks on you, said the prince who claims he was at school when he heard of his great grandmother's death when there is video footage of him in Klosters and news reports that HLM gave special permission for them to travel together!

I think my larger point still stands, that the King announced William and Kate as PPOW immediately, not letting there be any room for debate, even announcing that he wished for the role to (continue to) be the royal version of an activist. If he wished Archie and Lili to be HRH Prince/ss then he would have made it known, perhaps not in his speech but via press release or even just "it is now known that Charles wishes..." via whichever reporter he wanted.

To be fair that has been a recurring discussion in royal watching circles since Edward and Sophie's 1999 wedding and nothing has ever been officially cleared up except that "Sovereign's Will" conquers all however it is expressed, there's no parliamentary process. Perhaps this time it will be expressed by not announcing anything?

Making Archie and Lilibet a prince and princess has nothing to do with Charles announcing a personal wish. They could have updated the line of succession according to the legal change of title that happened the moment Elizabeth died - as they for example did by changing everything from Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to D and D of Cornwall and Cambridge that same day. However, no doubt at Charles's instructions they did not make that same automatic change for his yoingest grandchildten.

When Archie was born, they refused to pose for photos on the steps of the hospital, refused to issue a formal announcement of the birth (we got Harry wittering instead), only gave him two forenames; and, along with the rejection of the Earl of Dumbarton title, that all gave the impression that they didn't want their children to be treated as senior royals. Which would have been quite fair enough, if that was what they wanted. But then they started with the lies about Archie having been denied styles and titles to which he was never entitled in the first place. They just keep contradicting themselves, over and over.

I'd also be interested to know if the book mentions the children's titles, but I'm assuming that it doesn't, as it hasn't been mentioned anywhere.

I wonder whether their reasoning was that Charles was more likely to stick with courrtesy titles/styles for children of a Duke (instead of starting to use the style and title of princess)) had they decided to use them (following the example of Edward's children) than he would be if they were plain master and miss - but it seems they miscalculated.

 

[suztav]

Well ... well ... well ... that didn't take very long

https://www.newsweek.com/americans-think-prince-harry-meghan-markle-lose-royal-titles-1774860

 

[Lori138]

Well ... well ... well ... that didn't take very long

https://www.newsweek.com/americans-t...titles-1774860

Thanks for posting!

 

[Ista]

Well ... well ... well ... that didn't take very long

https://www.newsweek.com/americans-think-prince-harry-meghan-markle-lose-royal-titles-1774860

That's quite a dramatic change in approval ratings. I wonder if that's temporary, or will be sustained over time.

 

[TLLK]

Wow! I am stunned by how quickly and drastically the American responses have changed in about 6 weeks since the beginning of December 2022.

 

[Erin9]

Wow! I am stunned by how quickly and drastically the American responses have changed in about 6 weeks since the beginning of December 2022.

It is a steep drop.

I think Americans are tired of their whining.

I’d guess that the cut, Netflix, and the book in fairly close proximity took a toll. All 3 were widely criticized. And the book- in particular- has been widely panned and mocked.

Podcast probably didn’t help either.

 

[Heavs]

Making Archie and Lilibet a prince and princess has nothing to do with Charles announcing a personal wish. They could have updated the line of succession according to the legal change of title that happened the moment Elizabeth died - as they for example did by changing everything from Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to D and D of Cornwall and Cambridge that same day. However, no doubt at Charles's instructions they did not make that same automatic change for his yoingest grandchildten.


I wonder whether their reasoning was that Charles was more likely to stick with courrtesy titles/styles for children of a Duke (instead of starting to use the style and title of princess)) had they decided to use them (following the example of Edward's children) than he would be if they were plain master and miss - but it seems they miscalculated.

I didn't necessarily mean personal wish but Heraldica has an expert stating what matters in relation to HRH is "Sovereign's will" "however it is expressed" be it announcement, LPs, press release, website changes, verbal confirmation etc

His verbally expressed wish that William and Kate be PPOW made it so.

I think it is entirely likely that they forwent courtesy titles of a Duke in hopes that their kids would get HRH in due time to avoid his grandchildren being Master and Miss but that is admittedly speculation.

I don't think it comes up in the book itself, but it has come up in more than one interview and article surrounding the book including from Sussex sources which is most likely them.

 

[FigTree]

I didn't necessarily mean personal wish but Heraldica has an expert stating what matters in relation to HRH is "Sovereign's will" "however it is expressed" be it announcement, LPs, press release, website changes, verbal confirmation etc

His verbally expressed wish that William and Kate be PPOW made it so.

I think it is entirely likely that they forwent courtesy titles of a Duke in hopes that their kids would get HRH in due time to avoid his grandchildren being Master and Miss but that is admittedly speculation.

I don't think it comes up in the book itself, but it has come up in more than one interview and article surrounding the book including from Sussex sources which is most likely them.

Why would there be an issue with the grandchildren being Master and Miss? The Queen had. Albeit the first monarch to but that has more to do with them all previously marrying titled people. Nothing so lowly as a commoner. And Armstrong Jones was given one.

 

[camelot23ca]

Here's a review of the book in The Guardian by Tina Brown
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...view-magical-thinking-in-montecito-tina-brown
I love this review and I generally enjoy her writing, particularly her acerbic wit.

She makes some interesting points!

I was wondering what posters who read the book made of the scene where Harry asks his grandmother for her permission to marry Meghan? My take wasn’t that the Queen didn’t want to give her permission but was cornered by Harry, which is what I think what Tina Brown is implying. To me it was more about the fact that his delivery was very rude - cornering her by the side of the vehicle instead of asking her in advance to find some time to speak to him about an important matter, mumbling that he was told he “had” to ask her permission to propose. I actually loved the Queen’s response! It was a clever way to say yes while also letting Harry know she didn’t appreciate how he’d handled things. She was obviously wasting her breath since Harry doesn’t do subtle.

 

[Heavs]

Why would there be an issue with the grandchildren being Master and Miss? The Queen had. Albeit the first monarch to but that has more to do with them all previously marrying titled people. Nothing so lowly as a commoner. And Armstrong Jones was given one.

Yes, I know she did. I don't think Charles has an issue with his grandkids being Master and Miss but he is known to be something of a stickler for rank and I think the Sussexes may have calculated that he was more likely to agree to them having HRH titles if they didn't have anything vs already having ducal titles as some sort of possible "consolation prize" (in their minds). Purely speculation.

 

[FigTree]

Yes, I know she did. I don't think Charles has an issue with his grandkids being Master and Miss but he is known to be something of a stickler for rank and I think the Sussexes may have calculated that he was more likely to agree to them having HRH titles if they didn't have anything vs already having ducal titles as some sort of possible "consolation prize" (in their minds). Purely speculation.

Yea, he is also the one who reportedly would not hear of Bea and Eug being working royals. And probably himself not have been okay with them being Princesses. He can’t be a hypocrite. My feeling is that they were to,d that they would change the titles right. They hinted at such on Oprah. Given how explosive the two are though, wouldn’t do to say that now though.

.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I didn't necessarily mean personal wish but Heraldica has an expert stating what matters in relation to HRH is "Sovereign's will" "however it is expressed" be it announcement, LPs, press release, website changes, verbal confirmation etc

His verbally expressed wish that William and Kate be PPOW made it so.

Thank you for the reminder that there are differences of opinion about whether the Letters Patent continue to have legal effect where they have been contradicted by a more recent expression of a sovereign's will.

I will not return to the merits of that controversy here (those interested can visit the Wessex and British title threads). However, I would like to highlight that we do not know the King's views on this legal question. It is possible that he believes, rightly or wrongly, that the expression of his will on titles and styles (e.g., in the Line of Succession and Members of the Royal Family pages on the royal website) supersedes the relevant sections of the 1917 Letters Patent.

As you implied, while the situations are not quite the same, the fact that he considered a mention in a speech to be sufficient for creating his son Prince of Wales without issuing Letters Patent might hint that he subscribes to the "The sovereign's will on royal titles, however it is expressed, is law" side of the debate.

 

[FigTree]

Thank you for the reminder that there are differences of opinion about whether the Letters Patent continue to have legal effect where they have been contradicted by a more recent expression of a sovereign's will.

I will not return to the merits of that controversy here (those interested can visit the Wessex and British title threads). However, I would like to highlight that we do not know the King's views on this legal question. It is possible that he believes, rightly or wrongly, that the expression of his will on titles and styles (e.g., in the Line of Succession and Members of the Royal Family pages on the royal website) supersedes the relevant sections of the 1917 Letters Patent.

As you implied, while the situations are not quite the same, the fact that he considered a mention in a speech to be sufficient for creating his son Prince of Wales without issuing Letters Patent might hint that he subscribes to the "The sovereign's will on royal titles, however it is expressed, is law" side of the debate.

They didn’t need to realise those. The heir to the throne, when male, is always the Prince of Wales. William was always going to be it.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

They didn’t need to realise those. The heir to the throne, when male, is always the Prince of Wales. William was always going to be it.

The Prince of Wales title is not automatic even for male heirs. You may be thinking of the Duchy of Cornwall, which is automatically assigned by its charter to the oldest son of the king who is heir to the throne. If you would like, I can link sources in another thread.

 

[FigTree]

The Prince of Wales title is not automatic even for male heirs. You may be thinking of the Duchy of Cornwall, which is automatically assigned by its charter to the oldest son of the king who is heir to the throne. If you would like, I can link sources in another thread.

Name one, in any recent times who hasn’t been it? Since the Hanovers came to be. It’s been that way. He wasn’t going to be exception.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Name one, in any recent times who hasn’t been it? Since the Hanovers came to be. It’s been that way. He wasn’t going to be exception.

I did not say he was going to be the exception. I said it was not legally automatic as you implied, but required a creation, just as his 2011 dukedom required a creation even though all adult sons of monarchs in recent times have been dukes (or earl in Edward's case).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Please see here for sources:

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...succession-and-wales-14668-5.html#post2526163

 

[yukari]

I stumble upon this old interview with Miguel Head (W&H's former press secretary and later became the Cambridges' private secretary during the good old days of royal watching).

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/04/former-press-secretary-to-william-and-harry-dishes/

(it's by Harvard Staff Writer, so surely it's credible and not tabloid-kind gossiping, right?)

Reading through it, I wonder whether he's just being polite/diplomatic when answering the questions or Harry has undergone drastic personality change in the last 3-4 years.

This part particularly shows another conflicting account with the book:

(...)

Prince Harry was younger when his mother died and, by his own admission, that has taken him longer to process in a different way. He has a similar view of the media to Prince William in that he believes that freedom of the press is very important. But he has always found the personal relationship harder. He always wears his emotions on his sleeve. You know how Prince Harry’s feeling and that’s one of the great qualities about him, which people respond to.

On a personal level, he gets on very well with lots of journalists. When he was dating Meghan Markle, now the Duchess of Sussex, there was a lot of interest in her. He felt very early on that he must lay down a red line about how she is treated by the press — not what the press says about her, the princes know that they can never control that, but just how in terms of how paparazzi photographers behaved around her. He laid down lines very early on in the relationship, which is quite unusual. Prince William waited a lot longer before he set out similar lines around then Kate Middleton.

(...)

I remember several years ago reading (or watching?) several accounts from RR such as Brady (ITV), Rebecca English (Daily Mail) that Harry was quite friendly with royal journalists, often went drinking with them while William was more reserve. And now in the book he points finger to Camilla about her supposed relationship with couple of journalists. Or is it another "it's okay if it's me, but not okay if it's other"?

Anyway, sometimes I wonder if things would be different (and for better) if Miguel was still around.

 

[QueenJen]

Did QEII issue a LP for Charles becoming PoW?

 

[Sionevar]

Did QEII issue a LP for Charles becoming PoW?

According to this article, which shows the actual document, yes, she did.

 

[kimebear]

I think it is entirely likely that they forwent courtesy titles of a Duke in hopes that their kids would get HRH in due time to avoid his grandchildren being Master and Miss but that is admittedly speculation.

Since they're already throwing their toys out of the pram, if Harry and Meghan want their children to be styled HRH Prince/Princess, then they should announce the children's titles on their own social media, cite the existing LP that allows it and then dare BP to say otherwise.

All this silly dancing around could end one way or the other.

 

[Lori138]

Since they're already throwing their toys out of the pram, if Harry and Meghan want their children to be styled HRH Prince/Princess, then they should announce the children's titles on their own social media, cite the existing LP that allows it and then dare BP to say otherwise.

All this silly dancing around could end one way or the other.

Please don't give them any ideas!! ?