Princess Beatrice: Wedding Tiara and Jewelry Suggestions and Musings

[muriel]

No, I dont have a source.. and I said "I think". Sarah would have sold the tiara discreetly, perhaps it was even broken up, so there's not likely to be any information about it

Unlikley in my view, but we are only speculating at this stage.

 

[Denville]

Unlikley in my view, but we are only speculating at this stage.

Which is the case with at least 50 % of discussions about the RF. From Sarah's past money problems, I think it is very likely that she sold the tiara privately...She isn't likely to have any times when she would wear it and her daughters can always get tiaras from the Royal collection..

 

[Tilia C.]

The off-topic discussion about Sarah has been deleted.

 

[Marc23]

Which is the case with at least 50 % of discussions about the RF. From Sarah's past money problems, I think it is very likely that she sold the tiara privately...She isn't likely to have any times when she would wear it and her daughters can always get tiaras from the Royal collection..

Well, I assume she will take part in the next coronation where she would need a tiara. Just a speculation.

 

[Mbruno]

Which is the case with at least 50 % of discussions about the RF. From Sarah's past money problems, I think it is very likely that she sold the tiara privately...She isn't likely to have any times when she would wear it and her daughters can always get tiaras from the Royal collection..

I think they can borrow tiaras from the Queen’’s vault as long as the Queen is alive, but will Charles and Camilla , or William and Catherine loan them any tiara ?

The most reasonable thing to do would be the Queen leaving some jewelry to Andrew as Queen Mary did for the Kents and the Gloucesters . Then, Beatrice and Eugenie would be covered.

I still think that , now that both princesses are married, they will start to be invited to state dinners to fill in for their father. If they are invited to garden parties, why not inviting her to state dinners too ?

 

[tommy100]

While I would love to see HM leave some tiaras, maybe some of Queen Mary's small bandeau ones, to Beatrice and Eugenie its worth remembering everything the Queen leaves to Charles is tax free- anything else is subject to inheritance tax. It wouldn't surprise me if the Queen has in some way ensured Charles knows her wishes in regards to continue use of tiaras and other jewels.

 

[Stefan]

While I would love to see HM leave some tiaras, maybe some of Queen Mary's small bandeau ones, to Beatrice and Eugenie its worth remembering everything the Queen leaves to Charles is tax free- anything else is subject to inheritance tax. It wouldn't surprise me if the Queen has in some way ensured Charles knows her wishes in regards to continue use of tiaras and other jewels.

Are gitfs not taxfree if the giver levies for a certain numbver of years after the gifting. Perhaps HM will leave everythig to Charles with the Order to gift certain necklaces/earrings etc. to hBeatrice, Eugenie. Louise James, zara and Peter.
But the best would be to put everything in a Family foundation like in the Netherlöands or Sweden and for big Evetns like a coronation peices can be borrowed from it.

 

[Lilyflo]

What we don't know is whether HMQ has added any tiaras to the Royal Collection, which would enable them to be passed from monarch to monarch but protect them from any future sales. I hope she has. Anything not in the RC can of course still be left to Charles tax free. I don't see the need for any tiaras to be left personally to any family members as they can always be borrowed for state occasions or weddings. I hope that all tiaras (and major pieces of jewellery) in the personal possession of HMQ (as opposed to already in the RC) will remain with the next monarch.

 

[tommy100]

To be tax free they have to be given 7 years before the person dies I think. In theory the Queen could give a list of things she wants giving out to Charles who could then gift them to each grandchild and hope he outlasts them by 7 years from when the Queen dies but I'm not sure if thats entirely legal or morally right (may well be, I really don't know)

I mean Camilla can't wear it all, and even now has access to at least one tiara possibly two or more we have never seen her in as she sticks to the same few. I can't see her suddenly having a desire to wear every tiara in the vault (well not in public at least) so deny access to them to others. Maybe QE2 has already made clear she sees the jewellery as basically a "collection" from which HRHs and senior royal ladies can borrow from as required for official events, weddings etc (although I would like the idea of the Dutch foundation way).

Anne has tiaras of her own for her family to use, the Yorks have Sarah's tiara (if its still around) and Sophie has her own tiara (the convertible necklace aquamarine one) so no one is going short of a tiara given how little they are worn these days outside official royal events.

 

[Mirabel]

To be tax free they have to be given 7 years before the person dies I think. In theory the Queen could give a list of things she wants giving out to Charles who could then gift them to each grandchild and hope he outlasts them by 7 years from when the Queen dies but I'm not sure if thats entirely legal or morally right (may well be, I really don't know)

I don't think gifting tiaras to anyone other than the monarch is a good idea.
They always end up sold somewhere down the line.

(I don't believe Charles or William would deny anyone the loan of a tiara for the rare occasions one is needed).

 

[tommy100]

I don't think HM will leave any tiaras to anyone other than Charles, she may stipulate any loans at present are honoured e.g. the 5 aquamarine tiara lent to Sophie. In fact Sophie is the only one this would truly apply to as its unlikely Charles wouldn't allow any loans to Catherine or Camilla and Anne wears her own tiaras. The other loans we have seen have been wedding day loans.

 

[Mbruno]

I don't think HM will leave any tiaras to anyone other than Charles, she may stipulate any loans at present are honoured e.g. the 5 aquamarine tiara lent to Sophie. In fact Sophie is the only one this would truly apply to as its unlikely Charles wouldn't allow any loans to Catherine or Camilla and Anne wears her own tiaras. The other loans we have seen have been wedding day loans.

Why do you think she will not leave any tiaras to anyone other than Charles? The Queen’s parents and grandparents left jjewelry to collateral branches of the family. Why would HM act differently ?

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen knows that eventually any tiaras left to anyone other than Charles will end up having to be sold. Look what happened to Margaret's jewellery collection.

Even things left to the Kents and Gloucesters won't be in the royal family in a generation and will also end up being sold to pay death duties.

Each generation has to pay death duties on items over a certain value so even if something is able to make it through one or two generations there will come a time when the family no longer has a need for the item as they aren't attending events anymore but they will need the cash either for death duties or for personal use.

The UK has two events most years where tiaras are worn - the two incoming State Banquets (Camilla usually has another two - State Opening of Parliament and the Diplomatic Reception and Catherine the Diplomatic Reception). Why leave something to people to wear twice a year when it is better to simply have them borrow one when necessary, as happened with their weddings.

Zara, for instance, won't be attending events where a tiara is worn, in the future as she isn't royal. She may wear one to her uncle's and her cousin's coronations but she doesn't need to own a tiara to wear twice more in her lifetime. Those tiaras Anne owns will end up being sold ... when Anne dies Peter and Zara will have to pay death duties on them and at some point in the future her descendants will simply sell them.

 

[Queen Claude]

Why do you think she will not leave any tiaras to anyone other than Charles? The Queen’s parents and grandparents left jjewelry to collateral branches of the family. Why would HM act differently ?

Queen Elizabeth will act differently because of what happened to jewels that were left to collateral branches of the family. Yeah if a jewel has no provenance then perhaps The Queen will leave it to a collateral branch with the logic that it's not a big deal if the jewel gets sold and disappears into the ether. However what happened to Queen Victoria’s Sapphire Coronet is definitely a cautionary tale.

What jewels did The Queen Mother leave to collateral branches?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Out of curiosity, if tiaras of royal provenance eventually become unaffordable to retain even within families that are a few generations removed from royalty, who is it that typically purchases them?

 

[Mbruno]

Queen Elizabeth will act differently because of what happened to jewels that were left to collateral branches of the family. Yeah if a jewel has no provenance then perhaps The Queen will leave it to a collateral branch with the logic that it's not a big deal if the jewel gets sold and disappears into the ether. However what happened to Queen Victoria’s Sapphire Coronet is definitely a cautionary tale.

What jewels did The Queen Mother leave to collateral branches?

She gave the Persian Turquoise parure to Princess Margaret for example and the Aquamarine pineflower tiara to Princess Anne (although the latter might have been given to the Queen first, I don't know, but anyway it belongs to Anne now).

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Margaret wore a tiara in 1948 when she attended the inauguration of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands. As she had just turned 18 this is likely the earliest she wore one.

Which tiara did Princess Margaret wear in 1948?

 

[Queen Claude]

She gave the Persian Turquoise parure to Princess Margaret for example and the Aquamarine pineflower tiara to Princess Anne (although the latter might have been given to the Queen first, I don't know, but anyway it belongs to Anne now).

There were jewels worn by Margaret that were believed to be gifted to her by the Queen Mother only to be later worn by The Duchess of Cambridge, so it is not a foregone conclusion that the Persian Turquoise parure was Margaret's property. It is also not a known fact that the Aquamarine Pineflower Tiara "belongs" to Anne, only that she wears it.

 

[Somebody]

Which tiara did Princess Margaret wear in 1948?

Here is a picture, hope that helps.

 

[Queen Claude]

Out of curiosity, if tiaras of royal provenance eventually become unaffordable to retain even within families that are a few generations removed from royalty, who is it that typically purchases them?

Since it is (was) typical for those in the titled class to leave the bulk of the assets to the next title holder, it is not a given that those who are a few generations away from royalty are super wealthy. Of the tiara purchases that I can recall, the buyers of recent royal tiaras have been anonymous unless it was a jeweler or a museum.

 

[RJC]

Here is a picture, hope that helps.

Looks like it might be Queen Mary's Diamond Lozenge but I'm no expert.

Queen Mary's Diamond Lozenge Tiara | The Court Jeweller

 

[muriel]

Out of curiosity, if tiaras of royal provenance eventually become unaffordable to retain even within families that are a few generations removed from royalty, who is it that typically purchases them?

Typically, antique dealers, overseas buyers, jewellers to break them up etc

 

[muriel]

She gave the Persian Turquoise parure to Princess Margaret for example and the Aquamarine pineflower tiara to Princess Anne (although the latter might have been given to the Queen first, I don't know, but anyway it belongs to Anne now).

> There is no information in the public domain as to whether Margaret was gifted the Persian turquoise parure and the Papyrus / Lotus Flower tiara, or merely provided access to them for her lifetime.

> These loans or gifts to Margaret were made in the 1960s, when she had a lifetime as a working princess ahead of her, and not at the death of her mother, who actualy died after Margaret.

> If the Queen intends to provide "working jewels" to members of her family, they would already have been made, and I think they are unlikely to be bequests which will attract inheritance tax.

 

[Leopoldine]

Typically, antique dealers, overseas buyers, jewellers to break them up etc

Also certain foundations like the one in Japan, ..the Albion is it? ... and the Al Thani collection, although they might be deaccessioning.

 

[Lilyflo]

Princess Margaret wore a tiara in 1948 when she attended the inauguration of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands. As she had just turned 18 this is likely the earliest she wore one.

Here is a picture, hope that helps.

Looks like it might be Queen Mary's Diamond Lozenge but I'm no expert.

Queen Mary's Diamond Lozenge Tiara | The Court Jeweller

I've seen another photo of this event and Princess Margaret is wearing the Cartier Halo tiara.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I've seen another photo of this event and Princess Margaret is wearing the Cartier Halo tiara.

There were two events for Juliana’s coronation, Margaret wore the Lozenge one evening and the Halo Scroll the next;

“Margaret, who was ranked fourth in precedence among the royal guests, paired the Diamond Lozenge Tiara with pearls for a "sports fantasy" showcase at Amsterdam's Olympic Stadium following the inauguration. (She chose the Halo Tiara for a concert held the following evening.)”

 

[Lilyflo]

There were two events for Juliana’s coronation, Margaret wore the Lozenge one evening and the Halo Scroll the next;

“Margaret, who was ranked fourth in precedence among the royal guests, paired the Diamond Lozenge Tiara with pearls for a "sports fantasy" showcase at Amsterdam's Olympic Stadium following the inauguration. (She chose the Halo Tiara for a concert held the following evening.)”

Thank you - it must have been very exciting for her to wear both tiaras at age 18!

 

[Denville]

Well, I assume she will take part in the next coronation where she would need a tiara. Just a speculation.

Not sure she would. The queen has maintained a friendly relationship with her but I don't think that Charles has.. and she's only the divorced wife of one of C's brothers.

 

[W.Y.CII]

It takes me a couple months to realize that Beatrice is the only granddaughter/in-law who got a wedding tiara loan that had been publicly worn by the Queen previously.

Festoon is a personal gift to Anne. Both Meander and Halo is from great-grandmothers, the Queen owns/ed it but never publicly wear it. QM's bandeau hasn't been used in recent three generations since Queen Mary. Greville Emerald was a mystery until Eugenie worn it.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Not sure she would. The queen has maintained a friendly relationship with her but I don't think that Charles has.. and she's only the divorced wife of one of C's brothers.

I'm not sure Andrew would be there. He's quite controversial, and I was under the impression Andrew and C don't get along.