Opposition to Royal Marriages


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Has any recent married in got near the engagement stage (that we know of) and been refused permission when it is needed? I know there was a situation with Friso and Mabel and stories about Eva Sanum ruining her chances with her dress at Haakon and Mette-Marit's wedding - although we don't know why it actually ended and Letizia is/was a controversial choice in herself.

N.B. I still wonder why other countries don't adopt the Dutch requirement for parliamentary permission as that ensures that family dynamics cannot one-sidedly decide on these issues (and wouldn't lessen the blow; it is easier to accept that parliament doesn't approve than that your parent doesn't - even if for dynastic reasons).

I concur with this.

And I would add that for the European monarchies, it would be a wise move to officially rebrand "permission to marry" as "approval to be in line to be King/Queen and Consort" or something of that nature.

In the first place, it would be truer to the reality. Currently, all European royals are allowed to marry without anyone's permission, and such a marriage would be legally recognized and equal to any other marriage in the eyes of the law. The only legal consequences would be changes to their position in line to the throne.

Second, the current language has led to it becoming practically impossible to deny permission if a couple asks for it (replying to Heavs, I cannot think of an instance when that has happened in European monarchies other than the Netherlands over the recent decades). The phrasing "denying X and Y permission to marry" invites outraged accusations from the public of "How dare they deny two people the right to marry who they love?" Hopefully, the reactions to "denying X and Y the potential to become monarchs" would be more muted.
 
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I concur with this.

And I would add that for the European monarchies, it would be a wise move to officially rebrand "permission to marry" as "approval to be in line to be King/Queen and Consort" or something of that nature.

In the first place, it would be truer to the reality. Currently, all European royals are allowed to marry without anyone's permission, and such a marriage would be legally recognized and equal to any other marriage in the eyes of the law. The only legal consequences would be changes to their position in line to the throne.

Second, the current language has led to it becoming practically impossible to deny permission if a couple asks for it (replying to Heavs, I cannot think of an instance when that has happened in European monarchies other than the Netherlands over the recent decades). The phrasing "denying X and Y permission to marry" invites outraged accusations from the public of "How dare they deny two people the right to marry who they love?" Hopefully, the reactions to "denying X and Y the potential to become monarchs" would be more muted.


As you said, no royal is denied the right to marry, which would be actually in violation of the European Convention on Human Rights. What might happen, however, is that a royal may be presented with a choice, as Prince Friso was, between getting married without consent or remaining in the line of succession to the throne.

I suppose that most people understand and accept that the government or parliament has a legitimate interest in vetting marriages of individuals who might become the head of state. There doesn't seem to be any major controversy about that. I don't think it makes a lot of sense, however, when consent is also required of people who are way down in the line of succession and extremely unlikely ever to succeed.
 
I suppose that most people understand and accept that the government or parliament has a legitimate interest in vetting marriages of individuals who might become the head of state. There doesn't seem to be any major controversy about that. I don't think it makes a lot of sense, however, when consent is also required of people who are way down in the line of succession and extremely unlikely ever to succeed.

I can see your points but I respectfully disagree. :flowers:

Regarding public controversy over vetting or withholding approval from marriages of potential heads of state: As I see it, the rarity of a couple publicly being refused consent after having sought it out (unless I have overlooked someone, no European royal couple in recent times other than Friso and Mabel of Orange-Nassau has had this happen to them) suggests refusal is viewed as controversial at best. One can also take note of this forum. Generally, posters on TRF are more accepting of royal systems than the general public, but even here, many posters are affronted by even the notion of a third party denying consent to the marriage of a royal.

Regarding requiring consent for people who are higher in the line of succession but not for people lower down: With respect, I don't think that makes sense. But I think I will move my thoughts on this to the British forum, as the UK is the only monarchy I am familiar with which has put that system into effect.
 
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I can see your points but I respectfully disagree. :flowers:

Regarding public controversy over vetting or withholding approval from marriages of potential heads of state: As I see it, the rarity of a couple publicly being refused consent after having sought it out (unless I have overlooked someone, no European royal couple in recent times other than Friso and Mabel of Orange-Nassau has had this happen to them) suggests refusal is viewed as controversial at best. One can also take note of this forum. Generally, posters on TRF are more accepting of royal systems than the general public, but even here, many posters are affronted by even the notion of a third party denying consent to the marriage of a royal.

Regarding requiring consent for people who are higher in the line of succession but not for people lower down: With respect, I don't think that makes sense. But I think I will move my thoughts on this to the British forum, as the UK is the only monarchy I am familiar with which has put that system into effect.


I suppose Sweden has de facto moved to a similar system now as people who have been stripped of the rank of "prince or princess of the Royal House" can marry without consent and still retain their succession rights in the interpretation of the Royal Court.

In the Netherlands, on the other hand, the line of succession itself is limited, so there is no need to also limit the number of persons who require consent to marry.
 
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Are there any other European reigning monarchies left that require those that are not/no longer in line to the throne to ask permission to marry?

Strictly speaking, the laws in many of European reigning monarchies do not word it as a requirement to ask permission; instead, they stipulate that only descendants of marriages which received permission are eligible for the throne.

However, Article 5 of the Swedish Act of Succession might be read as requiring permission for any marriage in which one party is a princess or prince of the Royal House - though I think the current official position, more or less, is that the term "prince or princess of the Royal House" should be read in this specific article as "individuals in line to the throne".

Art. 5. A prince or princess of the Royal House may not marry unless the Government has given its consent thereto upon an application from The King. Should a prince or princess marry without such consent, that prince or princess forfeits the right of succession for himself, his children and their descendants.​


Permission to marry is also a prerequisite for certain privileges, apart from succession to the throne, according to the house laws of Luxembourg and Liechtenstein.
 
I suppose Sweden has de facto moved to a similar system now as people who have been stripped of the rank of "prince or princess of the Royal House" can marry without consent and still retain their succession rights in the interpretation of the Royal Court.



However, Article 5 of the Swedish Act of Succession might be read as requiring permission for any marriage in which one party is a princess or prince of the Royal House - though I think the current official position, more or less, is that the term "prince or princess of the Royal House" should be read in this specific article as "individuals in line to the throne".

Art. 5. A prince or princess of the Royal House may not marry unless the Government has given its consent thereto upon an application from The King. Should a prince or princess marry without such consent, that prince or princess forfeits the right of succession for himself, his children and their descendants.​

Although the political establishment seems to support the reforms of 2019 and treat them as valid there is no constitutional base for the newly created differences between the Royal House and the Royal family. The two terms are for instance used interchangeably in §4 of the Act of Succession. Therefore I agree with TM's assumption that everyone in the Line of Succession are still required to seek permission to marry.
I'm also still unsure about how constitutional the other differences between the members of the RH and the RF really are, but that's for another discussion.
 
Although the political establishment seems to support the reforms of 2019 and treat them as valid there is no constitutional base for the newly created differences between the Royal House and the Royal family. The two terms are for instance used interchangeably in §4 of the Act of Succession. Therefore I agree with TM's assumption that everyone in the Line of Succession are still required to seek permission to marry.
I'm also still unsure about how constitutional the other differences between the members of the RH and the RF really are, but that's for another discussion.


Please note that the post you quoted was written in 2020 when the interpretation of Sweden's own Royal Court seemed to be that CP's and Madeleine's children were exempted from the requirements in the Act of Succession since they had been removed from the Royal House.


Since then, the Constitutional Committee of the Swedish Parliament has clarified that this is not the case, and that "princes and princesses of the Royal House" includes everybody in the line of succession, regardless of the title or style that they use, which is a prerogative of the King to determine.


So, yes, now I agree with you too on this point.
 
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Princess Cecilie of Prussia married Clyde Harris, an American her father initially did not approve but the family accepted it overtime because he proved himself to be good and were happy for her.
 
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The Swedish Princes of the past lost their titles to marry communors and then divorced , Why??
 
The Swedish Princes of the past lost their titles to marry communors and then divorced , Why??

Is your question why Swedish princes who married commoners in the past lost their titles, or why some of the princes who sacrificed their titles in order to marry commoner women went on to divorce those women?

The answer to the first question is that the marriages in question resulted in the princes automatically losing their right to the crown under the terms of the Act of Succession, and in Sweden (and most other modern European monarchies) titles and other dynastic rights have been regarded as connected.
 
The answer to the second question is that almost no one anticipates themselves getting divorced when they get married. The younger non-Bertil brothers of Gustav Adolf Edmund probably couldn't envision succeeding and didn't see the titles and rights as important compared to marrying freely (and Bertil was about to go the same way). Besides, how many of the Swedish princes remarried women who would have originally been suitable?— so it still makes essentially no difference.
 
The answer to the second question is that almost no one anticipates themselves getting divorced when they get married. The younger non-Bertil brothers of Gustav Adolf Edmund probably couldn't envision succeeding and didn't see the titles and rights as important compared to marrying freely (and Bertil was about to go the same way). Besides, how many of the Swedish princes remarried women who would have originally been suitable?— so it still makes essentially no difference.
To sum it up shortly:
Prince Lennart didn't care about what he lost. He also had the support of his father and had already inherited Mainau where he and Karin moved in right after the wedding. What he did care about was the court's (according to him led by his uncle, the future King Gustav Adolf) attempts to blacken the reputation of Karin and her family.
Prince Sigvard was shocked by his treatment and, according to his third wife Marianne, he never got over being banished from his family and his loss of status.
Prince Carl jr didn't really care. He got a noble title from his brother-in-law, King Leopold of the Belgians, and had the, at first reluctant, support of his parents who hosted his wedding at their summer home Fridhem. Carl also had gotten the approval by the king to marry and retained his Order of the Seraphim until 1961 when he lost it for other reasons. I'm sure that him having the support of his parents and his other close relations had a large part in that. I also have a feeling that his wife being a countess von Rosen made it easier for the family to accept the marriage.
Prince Carl Johan didn't care. He knew what was coming and was more shocked by the courts attempts to blacken the reputation of his future wife Kerstin and the illegal attempts to stop them from leaving the country than from the consequences of the marriage once it happened.
Prince Bertil also knew what was coming when he asked his grandfather to approve his marriage, but was set on marrying anyway.
All of the above hoped to get their marriages approved by the king, but most took the negative response in stride. Years later Kerstin Bernadotte famously commented that -"There's no use in crying over spilled milk. Especially not if you spilled it yourself".
 
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To sum it up shortly:
Prince Lennart didn't care about what he lost. He also had the support of his father and had already inherited Mainau where he and Karin moved in right after the wedding. What he did care about was the court's (according to him led by his uncle, the future King Gustav Adolf) attempts to blacken the reputation of Karin and her family.
Prince Sigvard was shocked by his treatment and, according to his third wife Marianne, he never got over being banished from his family and his loss of status.
Prince Carl jr didn't really care. He got a noble title from his brother-in-law, King Leopold of the Belgians, and had the, at first reluctant, support of his parents who hosted his wedding at their summer home Fridhem. Carl also had gotten the approval by the king to marry and retained his Order of the Seraphim until 1961 when he lost it for other reasons. I'm sure that him having the support of his parents and his other close relations had a large part in that. I also have a feeling that his wife being a countess von Rosen made it easier for the family to accept the marriage.
Prince Carl Johan didn't care. He knew what was coming and was more shocked by the courts attempts to blacken the reputation of his future wife Kerstin and the illegal attempts to stop them from leaving the country than from the consequences of the marriage once it happened.
Prince Bertil also knew what was coming when he asked his grandfather to approve his marriage, but was set on marrying anyway.
All of the above hoped to get their marriages approved by the king, but most took the negative response in stride. Years later Kerstin Bernadotte famously commented that -"There's no use in crying over spilled milk. Especially not if you spilled it yourself".

Interesting, thank you. What led some of the princes to believe that the Crown Prince (Gustaf VI Adolf) and/or the Royal Court were conducting a smear campaign against their wives? Did either side publicly air these accusations, and would you say they were credible?
 
There was opposition to the marriage of the Queen Elizabeth II and the late Duke of Edinburgh because the court and her parents wanted her to marry a British aristocrat instead, Philip was a poor, rough and foreign prince with some sisters who married Princes with ties to the Nazis.
 
Interesting, thank you. What led some of the princes to believe that the Crown Prince (Gustaf VI Adolf) and/or the Royal Court were conducting a smear campaign against their wives? Did either side publicly air these accusations, and would you say they were credible?
What I know is that Lennart had a really bad relationship with his uncle Gustav VI Adolf.
But I can't say what happened between them.

Lennart also didn't like his cousin Gustav Adolf much.
But he did have sympathy for him since he had dyslexia and struggled with that.
 
What I know is that Lennart had a really bad relationship with his uncle Gustav VI Adolf.
But I can't say what happened between them.

Lennart also didn't like his cousin Gustav Adolf much.
But he did have sympathy for him since he had dyslexia and struggled with that.

Interesting, thank you. I imagine the poor relationships did not benefit from the marriage controversies.


The Swedish Princes of the past lost their titles to marry communors and then divorced , Why??

As maria-olivia posted the same question in the Americans who married Royals and Aristocrats thread, it seems right to also quote the answers here.

Divorce rates are higher in Sweden than in a some European countries.
In 2019 it was 52% compared to 15% in Ireland.

On another note wasn't Carl Bernadotte surrounded in scandal and had to leave Sweden?

Prince Carl was involved in the so called "Scandal of Huseby" where the rich and eccentric Miss Florence Stephens had made him the heir to her fortune including the large estate centred around the manor of Huseby. It turned out that Carl had made many incompetent business dealings and that he and Florence had gotten themselves involved with scrupulous business men that robbed the estate of everything of value (including the cutting down of the vast forests). It turned into a huge scandal and court case with Carl declaring himself guilty of fraud (this was when he lost his Order of the Seraphim) and Florence being declared incompetent and placed under a guardianship for over 15 years.
If I may speculate about the reason for his first divorce, his wife Elsa was seven years his senior (something that could catch up with them eventually) and there are rumours about him having an illegitimate son in the area of his parents' summer house.
While I don't know the reason for his second divorce it can't be a coincidence that his wife Ann left him during the height of the scandal. The couple had been tabloid fodder for years even before the scandal broke with the contractor's daughter nicknamed "Princess Andersson" by the press. This is said to be one of the causes to why Carl and Kirstine (his third wife) waited over 15 years to get married. He didn't want her to be subjected to the same treatment.
 
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Interesting, thank you. What led some of the princes to believe that the Crown Prince (Gustaf VI Adolf) and/or the Royal Court were conducting a smear campaign against their wives? Did either side publicly air these accusations, and would you say they were credible?
I've collected some information about the issue from the autobiographies of a few of the people involved.
Lennart Bernadotte - His father, Prince Wilhelm, spoke to King Gustav V and his uncle Prince Carl & Princess Ingeborg. The former was resigned, but reluctantly supportive and the latter friendly and supportive. Then during Christmas the future Gustav VI Adolf spent hours trying to persuade Lennart not to go through with the marriage citing the financial repercussions it would have and badmouthing the Nissvandt family and the morals of Karin. It's worth adding that in spite of what he said that although not rich the Nissvandts were a perfectly respectable upper-middle class family and one of Karin's sisters had married a count Mörner. After that Gustav V had a talk to him where he repeated the claims of his son and spoke about his duties to king, country and the monarchy. This went on until Lennart took the statues of the Royal Hunting Club and showed his grandfather that Karin's father was not only a member, but had also signed that year's account rapport (?). After that the king dismissed him with a kiss and never spoke ill off the family again. He even invited Lennart to accompany him in the Royal box at the Opera the day after the engagement had been formally announced. Lennart writes that Carl & Ingeborg later told him that "someone" had fed his uncle and grandfather false information.

Sigvard Bernadotte - mentions a romance with a girl called Marianne. Sister of a friend from school so from a privileged background. When he told his father that he wanted to marry her he basically got the same story about her and her family that Lennart had got about Karin and the Nissvandts. Sigvard capitulated that time, but years later had it all repeated when he wanted to marry Erica Patzek. He had the same talk with his grandfather about his duties to Sweden and the monarchy as Lennart but wasn't dismissed with a kiss but with a "you silly boy". He was contacted by an onslaught of family members, officials friends etc who all tried to persuade him to marry Erica. After the marriage not only was his appanage stopped, but he had his bank account blocked so he couldn't access his money.

Kerstin Bernadotte - the divorced journalist from a poor, yet respectable and well-connected middle class family calls what she went through a cold war after her relationship to Prince Carl Johan became public knowledge. She was subjected to a campaign led by the Court Marshall to blacken the reputation of her and her family, she was called up to the Marshall of the Realm who tried to persuade her to give up on Carl Johan. He called her a fortune hunter and later spread rumours about her being an alcoholic. Before a work trip to Hungary in 1943 she found that her passport had been "forgotten" in the office of Torsten Nothin, the Governor of Stockholm, and only through pulling every string available did she get her passport on time. Nothin later wrote in his memoirs about how the court tried to have her passport invalidated in 1945 when she was about to travel to USA to marry Carl Johan. On may 25 the governor posted his formal refusal to break the law to the court and to the King personally. There were also formal attempts to get the American authorities not to give Kerstin a visa which delayed the wedding a few months. When the engagement was finally announced Carl Johan was called up to a resigned King Gustav V who dismissed his grandson with an offer of some cigarettes. He then said "this is the last thing that you'll ever get from me". Kerstin writes that there was never a formal break between Carl Johan and his father although relations were tense for many years. Like her sister-in-law Marianne she later developed a deep and affectionate relationship with her father-in-law. She also writes that both him and Queen Louise several times during the 50s and 60s said how blind and wrong they had been.

A long and messy post, but I hope it gives some insight into the experiences of some of those involved in the Bernadotte marriage saga.
 
JR76 , You are my favorite Poster . Your knowlegde , your kind posts I appreciate.
I am often reading threads from the beginning what a lot of newbies should do , I miss the great time of the past with Warren and others !
 
So all of this was post-Louise and pre-the death of Gustav Adolf Edmund? What was going through Gustav Adolf's head (and Louise too, apparently)? Especially for people who eventually realized that they were very wrong?
 
JR76 , You are my favorite Poster . Your knowlegde , your kind posts I appreciate.
I am often reading threads from the beginning what a lot of newbies should do , I miss the great time of the past with Warren and others !
Thank you so much, my dear. It's a massive compliment to be compared to the likes of the great Warren who's knowledge and generous personality I also miss very much. Sometimes I find it hard to remember the time on the forums that came before the reignited War of the Windsors. I also often amuse myself with reading old threads.
So all of this was post-Louise and pre-the death of Gustav Adolf Edmund? What was going through Gustav Adolf's head (and Louise too, apparently)? Especially for people who eventually realized that they were very wrong?
As both Lennart and Sigvard writes it was all part of attempts to dissuade other princes from jumping ship. The one who suffered the most was Sigvard who was shunned from the family for years. Lennart and Carl both had the support of their parents and according to Kerstin there was never a complete private break between Carl Johan and his father so even rigid Gustav Adolf seems to have mellowed as the years passed. A passage in Sigvard's memoirs mentions Lennart celebrating Christmas with the Royal family as early as two years after his marriage. WWII led to both princes returning to Stockholm and after that they both became natural parts of the Royal family again. By the 50s all the princes had both been re-embraced by the family and at the instigation of the King Gustav VI Adolf been given comital titles by Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg. Kerstin and Marianne writes that "Gusty" and "Ist" became devoted grandparents and step-grandparents to their children.
That said, in spite of the family mending the former princes were shocked when the will of Gustav VI Adolf was opened and it was revealed that the most significant part of his estate had been left to Carl XVI Gustav, Princess Christina, Princess Birgitta and Prince Bertil of whom the latter two had agreed to sacrifice their personal lives to support the monarchy.
 
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Thanks JR76! Great posts.

Just curious if Queen Ingrid of Denmark ever encouraged/discouraged her brothers in their marriages. Did she stay on good terms with them all?

Also, I'm unfamiliar with Princess Christina's story. Did she forgo some marriage to serve the crown?
 
Thanks JR76! Great posts.

Just curious if Queen Ingrid of Denmark ever encouraged/discouraged her brothers in their marriages. Did she stay on good terms with them all?

Also, I'm unfamiliar with Princess Christina's story. Did she forgo some marriage to serve the crown?
Thank you! I'm only happy to help shine a light on what I can.
According to Sigvard she had promised to support him when he told her about him wanting to marry Erica Patzek, but later she became part of the campaign against the marriage. He also writes about her ignoring him when he met her and their grandfather on the Riviera a few years later. They became friendly again when he lived in Copenhagen before the war and his third wife Marianne only has nice things to say about her. She was also the one who hosted the wedding between Carl Johan and Gunnila Bussler in the 80s.

Princess Christina asked her grandfather for permission to marry Thord Magnusson in early 1973, but was persuaded to push the wedding forward so that she would be able to support her brother when he ascended the throne. She agreed and didn't marry until the summer of 1974.
 
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I've collected some information about the issue from the autobiographies of a few of the people involved.
Lennart Bernadotte - His father, Prince Wilhelm, spoke to King Gustav V and his uncle Prince Carl & Princess Ingeborg. The former was resigned, but reluctantly supportive and the latter friendly and supportive. Then during Christmas the future Gustav VI Adolf spent hours trying to persuade Lennart not to go through with the marriage citing the financial repercussions it would have and badmouthing the Nissvandt family and the morals of Karin. It's worth adding that in spite of what he said that although not rich the Nissvandts were a perfectly respectable upper-middle class family and one of Karin's sisters had married a count Mörner. After that Gustav V had a talk to him where he repeated the claims of his son and spoke about his duties to king, country and the monarchy. This went on until Lennart took the statues of the Royal Hunting Club and showed his grandfather that Karin's father was not only a member, but had also signed that year's account rapport (?). After that the king dismissed him with a kiss and never spoke ill off the family again. He even invited Lennart to accompany him in the Royal box at the Opera the day after the engagement had been formally announced. Lennart writes that Carl & Ingeborg later told him that "someone" had fed his uncle and grandfather false information.

Sigvard Bernadotte - mentions a romance with a girl called Marianne. Sister of a friend from school so from a privileged background. When he told his father that he wanted to marry her he basically got the same story about her and her family that Lennart had got about Karin and the Nissvandts. Sigvard capitulated that time, but years later had it all repeated when he wanted to marry Erica Patzek. He had the same talk with his grandfather about his duties to Sweden and the monarchy as Lennart but wasn't dismissed with a kiss but with a "you silly boy". He was contacted by an onslaught of family members, officials friends etc who all tried to persuade him to marry Erica. After the marriage not only was his appanage stopped, but he had his bank account blocked so he couldn't access his money.

Kerstin Bernadotte - the divorced journalist from a poor, yet respectable and well-connected middle class family calls what she went through a cold war after her relationship to Prince Carl Johan became public knowledge. She was subjected to a campaign led by the Court Marshall to blacken the reputation of her and her family, she was called up to the Marshall of the Realm who tried to persuade her to give up on Carl Johan. He called her a fortune hunter and later spread rumours about her being an alcoholic. Before a work trip to Hungary in 1943 she found that her passport had been "forgotten" in the office of Torsten Nothin, the Governor of Stockholm, and only through pulling every string available did she get her passport on time. Nothin later wrote in his memoirs about how the court tried to have her passport invalidated in 1945 when she was about to travel to USA to marry Carl Johan. On may 25 the governor posted his formal refusal to break the law to the court and to the King personally. There were also formal attempts to get the American authorities not to give Kerstin a visa which delayed the wedding a few months. When the engagement was finally announced Carl Johan was called up to a resigned King Gustav V who dismissed his grandson with an offer of some cigarettes. He then said "this is the last thing that you'll ever get from me". Kerstin writes that there was never a formal break between Carl Johan and his father although relations were tense for many years. Like her sister-in-law Marianne she later developed a deep and affectionate relationship with her father-in-law. She also writes that both him and Queen Louise several times during the 50s and 60s said how blind and wrong they had been.

A long and messy post, but I hope it gives some insight into the experiences of some of those involved in the Bernadotte marriage saga.

Thank you for answering my question so extensively and for using information directly from the principal parties!

I see, the "war" against the (upper-)middle-class wives and their families was carried out mainly before the marriage in an effort to stave off the prospective marriages.

So, the King and Crown Prince appealed to the princes' duty to the monarchy along with the dangers of marrying into families with allegedly checkered reputations. I wonder which was the greater contributing factor to Gustaf V and Gustaf VI Adolf's own opposition to the marriages. With the King initially resigning himself to the first unequal marriage of the generation (Lennart's) before changing course and attempting to block it, I will speculate that perhaps he could reconcile himself to one out of many princes removing himself from the royal line under the 1810 Act of Succession, but had second thoughts when he realized the potential domino effect of prince after prince being lost to the monarchy. As for the sleaze accusations, the explanation of "someone had fed his uncle and grandfather false information" seems a bit farfetched if the same sort of charges were leveled against every fiancée.

It's interesting that with its political authority already significantly diminished by the middle of the 20th century the monarchy hung onto enough influence to block or nearly block bank accounts and travel documents. One wonders how much of that hidden clout still survives.


As both Lennart and Sigvard writes it was all part of attempts to dissuade other princes from jumping ship. The one who suffered the most was Sigvard who was shunned from the family for years. Lennart and Carl both had the support of their parents and according to Kerstin there was never a complete private break between Carl Johan and his father so even rigid Gustav Adolf seems to have mellowed as the years passed. A passage in Sigvard's memoirs mentions Lennart celebrating Christmas with the Royal family as early as two years after his marriage. WWII led to both princes returning to Stockholm and after that they both became natural parts of the Royal family again. By the 50s all the princes had both been re-embraced by the family and at the instigation of the King Gustav VI Adolf been given comital titles by Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg. Kerstin and Marianne writes that "Gusty" and "Ist" became devoted grandparents and step-grandparents to their children.
That said, in spite of the family mending the former princes were shocked when the will of Gustav VI Adolf was opened and it was revealed that the most significant part of his estate had been left to Carl XVI Gustav, Princess Christina, Princess Birgitta and Prince Bertil of whom the latter two had agreed to sacrifice their personal lives to support the monarchy.

I do understand why the ex-princes may have expected that the reconciliation, or compensation for their suffering, should have earned them a more equal share of the inheritance. But to me it does seem reasonable and in the interest of fairness and the monarchy to reward the family members who voluntarily made the greatest sacrifices.

All of this also causes me to wonder how much all of this family history may have been responsible for Carl XVI Gustaf's pattern of bending traditions and laws, where possible, to maximize the number of spare workers and spare heirs, though I should probably move that thought to a more suitable thread.

(Incidentally, I think you meant to write that "Christina and Bertil" and not "the latter two [Birgitta and Bertil]" had agreed to sacrifice their personal lives to support the monarchy, and that "an onslaught of family members, officials friends etc who all tried to persuade him not to marry Erica", is that correct?)
 
I'll shift my question over here. Does anybody know if Prince Carl and Princess Ingeborg were as opposed to the marriage of Märtha and Olav for reasons of consanguinity as King Haakon and Queen Maud apparently were?

Although they wanted him to marry Ingrid, who was... not so very much less related? ;)
 
Thank you! I'm only happy to help shine a light on what I can.
According to Sigvard she had promised to support him when he told her about him wanting to marry Erica Patzek, but later she became part of the campaign against the marriage. He also writes about her ignoring him when he met her and their grandfather on the Riviera a few years later. They became friendly again when he lived in Copenhagen before the war and his third wife Marianne only has nice things to say about her. She was also the one who hosted the wedding between Carl Johan and Gunnila Bussler in the 80s.

Princess Christina asked her grandfather for permission to marry Thord Magnusson in early 1973, but was persuaded to push the wedding forward so that she would be able to support her brother when he ascended the throne. She agreed and didn't marry until the summer of 1974.

I also enjoy reading your posts, it gives me an insight into families I know very little about other than media talk.
 
Thank you for answering my question so extensively and for using information directly from the principal parties!



I see, the "war" against the (upper-)middle-class wives and their families was carried out mainly before the marriage in an effort to stave off the prospective marriages.



So, the King and Crown Prince appealed to the princes' duty to the monarchy along with the dangers of marrying into families with allegedly checkered reputations. I wonder which was the greater contributing factor to Gustaf V and Gustaf VI Adolf's own opposition to the marriages. With the King initially resigning himself to the first unequal marriage of the generation (Lennart's) before changing course and attempting to block it, I will speculate that perhaps he could reconcile himself to one out of many princes removing himself from the royal line under the 1810 Act of Succession, but had second thoughts when he realized the potential domino effect of prince after prince being lost to the monarchy. As for the sleaze accusations, the explanation of "someone had fed his uncle and grandfather false information" seems a bit farfetched if the same sort of charges were leveled against every fiancée.



It's interesting that with its political authority already significantly diminished by the middle of the 20th century the monarchy hung onto enough influence to block or nearly block bank accounts and travel documents. One wonders how much of that hidden clout still survives.









I do understand why the ex-princes may have expected that the reconciliation, or compensation for their suffering, should have earned them a more equal share of the inheritance. But to me it does seem reasonable and in the interest of fairness and the monarchy to reward the family members who voluntarily made the greatest sacrifices.



All of this also causes me to wonder how much all of this family history may have been responsible for Carl XVI Gustaf's pattern of bending traditions and laws, where possible, to maximize the number of spare workers and spare heirs, though I should probably move that thought to a more suitable thread.



(Incidentally, I think you meant to write that "Christina and Bertil" and not "the latter two [Birgitta and Bertil]" had agreed to sacrifice their personal lives to support the monarchy, and that "an onslaught of family members, officials friends etc who all tried to persuade him not to marry Erica", is that correct?)



I am intrigued by your comment (accurate I’m sure) “So, the King and Crown Prince appealed to the princes' duty to the monarchy along with the dangers of marrying into families with allegedly checkered reputations.” How did this work when Gustaf Adolf (Edmund) wanted to marry Princess Sybilla of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, whose father was a well-known Nazi sympathiser? But, oh, of course, she was from the Almanach de Gotha!
 
I am intrigued by your comment (accurate I’m sure) “So, the King and Crown Prince appealed to the princes' duty to the monarchy along with the dangers of marrying into families with allegedly checkered reputations.” How did this work when Gustaf Adolf (Edmund) wanted to marry Princess Sybilla of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, whose father was a well-known Nazi sympathiser? But, oh, of course, she was from the Almanach de Gotha!
Well, Princess Sybilla was not a Nazi just because her father was a supporter of them and also this was at a time when royals in Sweden were expected to make a dynastic marriage so of course they had no problems accepting her. The point of the “checkered reputations” was simply because those women were not royals so he was of course they were biased to Sybilla.
 
I am intrigued by your comment (accurate I’m sure) “So, the King and Crown Prince appealed to the princes' duty to the monarchy along with the dangers of marrying into families with allegedly checkered reputations.” How did this work when Gustaf Adolf (Edmund) wanted to marry Princess Sybilla of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, whose father was a well-known Nazi sympathiser? But, oh, of course, she was from the Almanach de Gotha!
Yes, Sibylla had an impeccable ancestry and were part of the same extended family as Edmund. It's also important to remember that they got engaged before the Nazi takeover and that nobody at the time could imagine what was to happen a few years later. That said, people were aware of the image the Nazis already had, many were deeply uncomfortable with Carl Eduard's ties to them and Gustav V chose not to attend the wedding when it became clear that it would be performed with heavy Nazi symbolism.
 
I am intrigued by your comment (accurate I’m sure) “So, the King and Crown Prince appealed to the princes' duty to the monarchy along with the dangers of marrying into families with allegedly checkered reputations.” How did this work when Gustaf Adolf (Edmund) wanted to marry Princess Sybilla of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, whose father was a well-known Nazi sympathiser? But, oh, of course, she was from the Almanach de Gotha!

When Princess Sybilla became engaged with Prince Edmund, the NSDAP had 107 seats in the Reichstag, the social-democrats (SPD) formed the biggest fraction with 143 seats. The Reichkskanzler was Max Brüning from the Zentrumpartei (Party of the Centre). The whole "load" of the Nazi Party, the state coup, the Kristallnacht, the internal purge of the SA, the rise of the SS, it all had to start yet. What you do is hineininterpretieren: to judge retroactively to the period 1930-1932 with today's knowledge and awareness.

Look at the later Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring: he lived in Stockholm, worked for Svenska Lufttrafik and married the Swedish friherrinor Carina Fock formerly friherrina Nils von Kantzow. The "load" Hermann Göring would get as pure Nazi still had to follow. Back then he was primarily known as a WWI fighter pilot hero.
 
There was opposition to the marriage of the Queen Elizabeth II and the late Duke of Edinburgh because the court and her parents wanted her to marry a British aristocrat instead, Philip was a poor, rough and foreign prince with some sisters who married Princes with ties to the Nazis.

Prince Gorm of Denmark and Prince Carl Johan of Sweden were mentioned as possible husbands for Princess Elizabeth.
http://www.trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/39029951
 
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