Diana/Charles/Camilla's Relationships Part 2

[BeatrixFan]

What are people's thoughts if Charles and Camilla had a child together?

Well, if TRH had a child, I'd be thrilled for them and I think it would be something very very special - all children bring great joy to parents. I'll never see that and so I think that any couple that do have children should consider themselves blessed and enjoy every moment. That applies to Royal Babies too!

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I agree. Charles has done his best to be a good parent. Being a parent is never easy in any case. I give credit where credit is due.

The fact he openly hugs and kisses his sons in public speaks volumes about his character as a parent.

 

[Skydragon]

Diana's parents were involved in their own battles with each other, they probably had enough scars of their own to heal. .

If we all thought Charles and Diana's battle was bloody, we should remember just what kind of a war the Spencers fought.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I don't think Charles was able to give her the emotional support she needed. Men are not raised to give that all-encompassing support like women are

Well, I don't think thats nessecarily true - but we have to look at the way Charles was brought up. His mother was very 'Queen Maryish' when she was raising her children. The stiff upper lip still existed - it still does to an extent. And so in Charles's mind, Diana was probably over reacting and she should have had more control over her emotions. Several stories show that emotionally, she was wreck. Burrell seems to be a little bit simpering and soft and so she could turn to him for a shoulder to cry on, whereas with Hewitt, the sexual want would make her feel needed in some way (I guess) and thats why she sought solice with them - they showed more emotion towards her than Charles did. Camilla doesn't seem the sort to burst into tears or crumble when she's criticised in the press and so Charles knows that he doesn't need to constantly praise Camilla as he had to do with Diana. She isn't insecure.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I think both were emotionally unprepared in some ways to handle each other. History will show it was an ill-fated arrangement on both sides.

However, if anything blessed came out of it, it was those two young men. They both have had their ups and downs, Harry especially, but they are turning out to be the most normal so far in the family.

 

[Elspeth]

I still remember one of, IMO, the most astute commentaries on the Charles-Diana debacle, only I forget who said it: that two emotionally needy people came together and found that they had only demands to make.

 

[Zonk]

They were totally unsuitable for each other. Can't remember where I read it..but I believe when they (Charles/Diana) started dating, the press went crazy and Prince Phillip asked or told him to make up his mind or her reputation would be ruined. And the rest is history. If they had more time to date, perhaps they would have noticed that they were ill-suited for each other.

In terms of the emotional support, from what I see....Camilla provides it in spades to Charles. And that is why it works...he is the most important thing to her (other than her family) and sorry, he is somewhat selfish (IMO). I am sure he provides it to her as well. Unfortunately for Charles, he will be remembered for his disaster of a first marriage and less for the good works that he does. Ad yes, he does do a lot of good work. The Prince's Trust is exemplary example of how a charity should be run.

I find it ironic that people bash Diana for her so called emotional problems, when lets face it...she was 13 years younger than Charles. And people are prone to blame her for their differences. Oh she pretended to like this when they were dating. HELLO. Name one person who done the same thing when dating someone. You want to make a nice impression. Their likes or your likes. I have a girlfriend who used to cook all the time for her boyfriend..they get married and its cereal for dinner Of course they have kids, school, etc. but you get the point.

They had different expectations of marriage, interests, etc. it was a mismatch from the start.

 

[Zonk]

Elspeth..that is a great point and it explains their marriage perfectly.

 

[Skydragon]

Oh she pretended to like this when they were dating. HELLO. Name one person who done the same thing when dating someone. You want to make a nice impression. Their likes or your likes.

I have to be honest Zonk1189, I really don't know anyone who has done that, some of our friends are divorced or separated but lying about likes and dislikes was not a factor in the split. More a case of their likes and dislikes changing over the years.

 

[Zonk]

I guess you can call it lying if you want to be clear cut about it.

The only reason I mentioned the likes and dislikes cause it was brought up that Diana lied about liking somethings that Charles cared for. I wouldn't consider so much as lying. If you really like/love someone, in the begining (in the get to know you phase) you talk about your likes and dislikes. If I don't like to watch American foot ball every Sunday (and I am talking about all the games..thats about 4 to 6 hours) but I watched it while we dating..cause I wanted to spend every minute with you. Five years down the line..don't have a problem cause while you want to do it every Sunday, I don't!

 

[Skydragon]

If you really like/love someone, in the begining (in the get to know you phase) you talk about your likes and dislikes. If I don't like to watch American foot ball every Sunday (and I am talking about all the games..thats about 4 to 6 hours) but I watched it while we dating..cause I wanted to spend every minute with you. Five years down the line..don't have a problem cause while you want to do it every Sunday, I don't!

I suppose I'm very lucky, the men I went out with, I met doing the things I did on a regular basis and that I liked.
I suppose some people would see it as boring but, if it looked like a mismatch, my Father would intervene and ensure it did not develop into anything as serious as a date.
Something Earl Spencer should perhaps have done.

 

[Zonk]

Then you were very lucky to have a great father. But I found it ironic that you blame Earl Spencer and not the Queen and Prince Phillip. From your previous postings, and please correct me if I am wrong..you seem to blame everyone but Charles.

As we stated before, a lot of factors (infidelity, a lack of mutual understanding, tempermants) led to the dissolution to that marriage.

 

[tiaraprin]

Zonk got it right!!

Then you were very lucky to have a great father. But I found it ironic that you blame Earl Spencer and not the Queen and Prince Phillip. From your previous postings, and please correct me if I am wrong..you seem to blame everyone but Charles.

Quite Correct Zonk!!! Kudos to you!!

 

[Skydragon]

Then you were very lucky to have a great father. But I found it ironic that you blame Earl Spencer and not the Queen and Prince Phillip. From your previous postings, and please correct me if I am wrong..you seem to blame everyone but Charles.

I believe that there were faults on both sides that caused the breakdown but, I also believe that if Diana had not helped write a book about it all, it would have been a lot less traumatic for their children, I also feel she was totally in the wrong to 'court' the public in her efforts to get at Charles.
I just find it unforgivable, that she would ring the press to tell them where she was and then arrive looking like a tragedy queen. I have to admit I never particularly liked Diana Spencer and from what I saw, did not believe she was the right person for Charles.
A friend lived with a partner who after they moved in together, couldn't bear to allow him to do anything without her, she tried to cut him off from all his old friends with her histrionics. Throwing herself down the stairs to 'make a point' was one of her favourites. He did escape her clutches and her friends and family blamed him for everything.
Everyones excuse for Diana seems to be her youth therefore, her father should have been looking out for her.

 

[Skydragon]

Quite Correct Zonk!!! Kudos to you!!

Which bit does he get glory for?

 

[Zonk]

Well Skydragon...we are in agreement with the book issue. I, also agree that it was wrong of Diana to assist with the book, which allowed the press let the world know about the problems in their marriage. With that in mind, I totally respect Princess Alexandra and Prince Jochaim of Denmark...nobody knows why they got divorced. BUT I also can't imagine what is like to marry the Prince of Wales and become part of a 1000 year old insititution like the British monarchy and feel like you have no one to support you because the person you thought would (your husband) is not there for you. And I agree that Diana's youth led to a lot of their problems..but the same could be said of Charles's age. He was old enough and knew what he wanted. I honestly think he picked her cause he thought she was malleable. And she wasn't.

Oh..and for future reference...Zonk is a she. That's me Zonk was a character the political cartoon Doonesbury.

 

[BeatrixFan]

With that in mind, I totally respect Princess Alexandra and Prince Jochaim of Denmark...nobody knows why they got divorced.

Because Alexandra has kept her dignity and her mouth shut and hasn't gone on national television airing the secrets of her marriage bed.

 

[Zonk]

True..everything happens for a reason. It is my hope that people learn from other's mistakes. In this instance...Alexandra has decided not to share her marital secrets and in the Queen of Denmarktook a totally different approach to handling Alexandra than Queen Elizabeth.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Maybe Elizabeth would have followed Margrethe's style had she not had to suffer the problems Diana brought to the House of Windsor.

 

[Skydragon]

Maybe Elizabeth would have followed Margrethe's style had she not had to suffer the problems Diana brought to the House of Windsor.

Well said BeatrixFan

 

[Skydragon]

and feel like you have no one to support you because the person you thought would (your husband) is not there for you. And I agree that Diana's youth led to a lot of their problems..but the same could be said of Charles's age. He was old enough and knew what he wanted. I honestly think he picked her cause he thought she was malleable. And she wasn't.

Oh..and for future reference...Zonk is a she. That's me Zonk was a character the political cartoon Doonesbury.

Apologies for missing the s off, it was a typo, I already had you in my mind as a female.

We don't know that Charles did not support her. It must have been terrible for him to have a cloying woman intruding into his life. No one is prepared for the loss of privacy, of doing your own thing, your own way. I think a lot of couples enter into long term relationships without realising that they each have to give up a lot of things. A lot of relationships entered into when you are young, 30 and under, do not last. We know that as you get older, life's experiences change your view on most things.
We do know that she didn't want him to spend so much time with his friends, even though she was invited, they were all too old for her. We know that he did not enjoy nightclubs or her friends, they were all too young.

I think he picked her because he thought they had so much in common but, unlike American football, it had to last longer than 6 hours.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, I'm 19. I don't go into any relationship expecting it to last for decades. I think you have to be a pretty naive immature sort of person to believe that it would. Why didn't Diana have her lovers, have her apartments, have her pop star guests, have her fame and keep her personal life to herself and out of the press. Instead, what we saw was a panda eyed Diana, batting her eyelashes, bowing her precious little head and giving the finest performance she'd ever given.

 

[Skydragon]

Well, I'm 19. I don't go into any relationship expecting it to last for decades. I think you have to be a pretty naive immature sort of person to believe that it would. Why didn't Diana have her lovers, have her apartments, have her pop star guests, have her fame and keep her personal life to herself and out of the press. Instead, what we saw was a panda eyed Diana, batting her eyelashes, bowing her precious little head and giving the finest performance she'd ever given.

The difference is that you are a sensible chap and I have to say you seem to have a maturity far beyond your years!

 

[Lady Marmalade]

You know when the can of worms was opened with the media started before we were all even born....when the Queen, spurned on by Prince Philip, allowed the documentary to be made "The Royal Family" in the late 1960's.

That swung the door wide open for mud to be slung at, and criticism to be given, to the Royals.

Why? It tore down the mystical wall once and for all and showed them to be normal, ordinary people.

I bring this up, as sooner or later, given the sociological and cultural changes going on, Diana did do good in many ways for the House of Windsor.

Some of it is not so obvious and other stuff is.

But think where they are today. Had all this not happened.....would they be as modern...would other Royal Princes from others houses have married the women they had?

She set many precedents.....hard act to follow in many respects...

Camilla...she gives Charles the comfort and support he needs.

He has never had a lot self-confidence and likes to play pity, it is evident sometimes in his interviews both today and years ago. His parents, well, she was Queen and Country came first. Philip, given his sad childhood, thought the only way to raise Charles was tough love.

Is it any wonder he and Camilla bonded? She never took that limelight..she walks behind him and lets him shine.

He needs that to heal internally.

Some of what happened when he was married Diana early on WAS NOT HER FAULT.

The press early on blew her up in status and made her this glamorous, young fresh, woman who breathed life into the stuffy House of Windsor.

You must remember how the decade of the 1980's was. The glitz, glamour, and ostentatious way of life...the era of the yuppie and the modern look of women as we know them today came into fruition...THE BIG SHOULDER PADS!

ALL THREE DESERVE BLAME...AND IRONICALLY ENOUGH, ALL THREE DESERVE CREDIT.

Out of the ashes will rise a phoenix...and that phoenix is the Royal Family today...much better suited to sustainabilty and survival in the modern world.

Whew...my fingers are tired!!

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Apologies for missing the s off, it was a typo, I already had you in my mind as a female.

We don't know that Charles did not support her. It must have been terrible for him to have a cloying woman intruding into his life. No one is prepared for the loss of privacy, of doing your own thing, your own way. I think a lot of couples enter into long term relationships without realising that they each have to give up a lot of things. A lot of relationships entered into when you are young, 30 and under, do not last. We know that as you get older, life's experiences change your view on most things.
We do know that she didn't want him to spend so much time with his friends, even though she was invited, they were all too old for her. We know that he did not enjoy nightclubs or her friends, they were all too young.

I think he picked her because he thought they had so much in common but, unlike American football, it had to last longer than 6 hours.

Minor nitpick...American football lasts three hours...4 at most.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

You know when the can of worms was opened with the media started before we were all even born....when the Queen, spurned on by Prince Philip, allowed the documentary to be made "The Royal Family" in the late 1960's.

I agree totally. That series was a mistake. I heard a woman say once, "They don't have much privacy and what they have they are entitled to keep". How true. The Queen buying Prince Edward an iced lolly is very heart warming but it suddenly created this vast craving for more and more. I think the mud slinging came in the late 80s and 90s and the Queen was sacred until 97 and then the flag mess meant she got a bashing. Then they were all fair game - even the Queen Mother.

I have to say that I don't think Diana did a tremendous amount for the Royal Family. She had her way and they had theirs. The Queen certainly wasnt going to get on all fours and tickle African babies in Lesotho. We don't expect her to. She's sacred. Holy. Special. Born to reign over us - Diana wasn't. Diana did things in her way but the Royal Family have stuck to the old way. Camilla is bringing a new style but it'll be William and Harry's wives who will have the decider. They can do things Di's way or they can do things Camilla's way. Seeing that she'll be Queen, I think they'll stay on the right side of Camilla.


I don't think Charles does play pity. He seems to get on with it and its only recently that he's said that he isn't appreciated etc. And that is sad. Call it a mid-life crisis. He's not in an easy position. I think you are right about the relationship Charles and Camilla have when they 'work the crowd'. When they were in America at Ground Zero, Camilla got out of the car and went to walk off in her own direction. But she didn't. She walked around the car and she took her step behind. Diana always outshone and I noticed that at a dinner at 10 Downing St. Diana got out of the car and walked in and left poor Charles climbing out the car looking dazed. It was an awkward moment.
Did they see the Royal House as stuffy? I don't think so - we may do now but not then. My Great-Grandmother was appauled when Diana came onto the scene and I remember talking to her about Di. She said, "That girl upstaged the Queen and I didn't like it". Diana didn't breathe new life into the whole Royal House - she showed them a new way - a way they didn't like and haven't really adopted. William and Harry seem to have got a good balance but turning the RF into a vast media circus won't be a good thing and rather than rising from the flames, they'll be roasting in them.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I agree for the most part...

I think in the 1960's, in swinging London..as they called it, they may have seen it as being a little stuffy.

In the early years of their marriage, the very early years, the media did make the attention go to Diana...at first that was not her, but the media, with their initial thirst for pictures and news.

It will be fascinating to see how Charles reigns and then William.

Everyone in that family is banking on William.

I have no doubt both will make excellent kings, and will do things in their own way and style.

I will say this, I have no doubt Charles and she loved each other very much in their own way that none us will never really know about.

At the end of the day, after all the interviews, books, gossip, whatever being said, that love is something none us will never have access to in knowing about.

 

[Zonk]

When I mention American football lasting 4 to 6 hours..thats at least two games. Never forget an ex boyfriend, when I turned the channel after the two games were..he was like..the other game is still on Channel 4...and this was after 5 hours! I was like...Honey..I love you but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

 

[Zonk]

I agree with Lady Marmalade about the good and bad Diana brought to the Royal Family. I think we all agree that a little mystique goes a long way. Now that people have seen the bad side of too much press/public intrusion into everyday royal life, they will be mindful of its effects.

And I also agree that Charles does his little pity party. And its not recent. As I have stated in the past, as much as I adored Diana, I acknowledge her faults. Charles, for his position, needed a wife who complemented him and not competed with him. And that is Camilla. I just wish things had happened different but everything has a reason. All of them, Charles/Diana and Camilla, were victims of the times. Charles and Camilla because they couldn't marry earlier. And Diana because her relationship with the press.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

When I mention American football lasting 4 to 6 hours..thats at least two games. Never forget an ex boyfriend, when I turned the channel after the two games were..he was like..the other game is still on Channel 4...and this was after 5 hours! I was like...Honey..I love you but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

LOL!! That was Skydragon who originally posted it.

But I know what you mean....my husband does the same thing to me!