Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[SirGyamfi1]

Until 1953 the entire peerage attended a coronation ceremony. At that point, there was a total UK peerage of 936, including 736 members of the House of Lords, minors and peeresses in their own right.
In a statement to the House of Lords on 27 January 1953 the then Lord Chancellor rejected the view that every peer enjoyed an “absolute right” to a seat in the Abbey. Rather he was:
convinced that it lies entirely within the Royal Prerogative or otherwise within the personal power of the Sovereign to determine what Peers shall be summoned to the Abbey and what services shall be rendered by them; and it would be clearly improper in this House to challenge or criticise the exercise by the Sovereign of such powers.
The Lord Chancellor also reminded peers that their homage had been curtailed after 1902. Instead, 910 peers were accommodated (via a ballot) in the Abbey. If unsuccessful, a peer and his wife were entitled to a free seat in a covered stand to be erected outside.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9412/CBP-9412.pdf

So they started in 1953.

I didn’t say that peers had the right to be there, but my point was there were far more peers attending the coronation regardless at that time than today.

 

[Curryong]

I’m just wondering how on earth all peers and peeresses were accommodated in the 19th century and in the centuries before that, considering there was so much trouble in 1953. Everybody must have been packed in like sardines, even if they were fewer in numbers than now.

 

[wbenson]

There were a lot of peerages created in the 19th and 20th centuries. If I counted right, there were only 242 peers present at Victoria's coronation in 1838.

 

[Iluvbertie]

There were a lot of peerages created in the 19th and 20th centuries. If I counted right, there were only 242 peers present at Victoria's coronation in 1838.

And all of them swore allegiance in person and the ceremony took five hours.

 

[Curryong]

Thanks, wbenson. And of course there would have been several very frail and elderly ones who didn’t turn up in 1838. Still, even if all those peers present weren’t married, it would have meant a couple of hundred Peeresses in the gallery, as well.

 

[Spheno]

I’m just wondering how on earth all peers and peeresses were accommodated in the 19th century and in the centuries before that, considering there was so much trouble in 1953. Everybody must have been packed in like sardines, even if they were fewer in numbers than now.

Some numbers:

At the death of Queen Elizabeth I there were 59 peers at all.

The Peerage and the Coronation of George I
...Total attendance among the members of the House of Lords can be estimated with reference to The Whole Ceremony of the Coronation (1715), which suggested that about 130 to 135 members of the House of Lords attended... Of the 16 Scottish Representative Peers elected in 1713, ten attended the Coronation, as did 22 Scottish non-representative peers...
https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2023/04/06/the-peerage-and-the-coronation-of-george-i/
Total: 168-173 peers (+ others)

Coronation attendance
Monarch Attendance
King Edward VII (1902) 5,873
King George V (1911) 7,139
King George VI (1937) 7,606
Queen Elizabeth II (1953) 8,251 (910 peers were accommodated (via a ballot) in the Abbey)
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9412/CBP-9412.pdf

 

[Alison H]

Yes, a lot of people who'd made money in trade and industry were ennobled in the 19th and early 20th century.

 

[wbenson]

New Music Commissions for the Coronation Service at Westminster Abbey

Buckingham Palace is pleased to announce further details of the twelve new compositions that have been written for the Coronation of Their Majesties The King and The Queen Consort at Westminster Abbey on Saturday 6th May 2023.

A life-long music enthusiast and champion of the arts, His Majesty has overseen, influenced and been personally involved in the commissioning process and the detail of the music programme, which will showcase and celebrate musical talent from across the United Kingdom and further afield.

The musical commissions offer contemporary interpretations of centuries of musical tradition, bringing together world-class composers, who are some of the most esteemed living artists from across the Classical, Sacred, Film, Television and Musical Theatre fields. They have taken varied approaches to their compositions - whether for orchestra, solo voice or choir - resulting in a diverse and accessible musical programme.

 

[angieuk]

I was just wondering when the ORDER OF SERVICE will be published?

 

[wbenson]

There's always hope, but I'd be surprised to see the order of service before the 5th.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I was just wondering when the ORDER OF SERVICE will be published?

Based on past royal events the 5th-6th May.

 

[Blog Real]

I find it odd that Belgium and the Netherlands have yet to officially confirm their presence at the coronation. Will there be an official guest list?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I find it odd that Belgium and the Netherlands have yet to officially confirm their presence at the coronation. Will there be an official guest list?

May 4th is the National Remembrance at Dam Square in Amsterdam.
May 5th is Liberation Day in the Netherlands, which is concluded with a traditional open air concert and a passage of the royal couple by boat at the Amstel river in Amsterdam.

(This would exclude the attendance of the King and Queen Máxima for eventual pre-Coronation festivities).

May 6th still is empty in the official agenda of the Royal House.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Belgian Queen is off to Vietnam a couple of days after the Coronation but still no update yet.

 

[wbenson]

https://www.royal-house.nl/latest/news/2023/04/17/coronation-of-king-charles-iii-and-queen-camilla

His Majesty King Willem-Alexander and Her Majesty Queen Máxima will attend the coronation ceremony of Their Majesties King Charles III and Queen Camilla of the United Kingdom at Westminster Abbey on Saturday 6 May 2023. Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands and Her Royal Highness Catharina-Amalia, the Princess of Orange, will attend a reception at Buckingham Palace on 5 May on the eve of the coronation.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

https://www.royal-house.nl/latest/news/2023/04/17/coronation-of-king-charles-iii-and-queen-camilla

His Majesty King Willem-Alexander and Her Majesty Queen Máxima will attend the coronation ceremony of Their Majesties King Charles III and Queen Camilla of the United Kingdom at Westminster Abbey on Saturday 6 May 2023. Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands and Her Royal Highness Catharina-Amalia, the Princess of Orange, will attend a reception at Buckingham Palace on 5 May on the eve of the coronation.

That is clever planning:

May 5th is Liberation Day with a major public event in Amsterdam, including the royal couple making apassage by boat on Amstel river. Impossible for them to scrap it.

By sending the Princess of Orange and Princess Beatrix to the reception on the eve of the Coronation, the Dutch Royal House is represented at both days.

The Dutch Royal House follows the example of Buckingham Palace and no longer uses "The Queen Consort", so to see.

 

[JGio]

Charles III: Coronation Musings and Information

How nice to see the Princess of Orange at the reception. I hope the Duchess of Brabant will be included in some form as well.

 

[JR76]

That is clever planning:

May 5th is Liberation Day with a major public event in Amsterdam, including the royal couple making apassage by boat on Amstel river. Impossible for them to scrap it.

By sending the Princess of Orange and Princess Beatrix to the reception on the eve of the Coronation, the Dutch Royal House is represented at both days.

The Dutch Royal House follows the example of Buckingham Palace and no longer uses "The Queen Consort", so to see.

Buckingham Palace does still use "The Queen Consort" as that is her official title.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1647917367798939648

 

[An Ard Ri]

https://www.royal-house.nl/latest/news/2023/04/17/coronation-of-king-charles-iii-and-queen-camilla

His Majesty King Willem-Alexander and Her Majesty Queen Máxima will attend the coronation ceremony of Their Majesties King Charles III and Queen Camilla of the United Kingdom at Westminster Abbey on Saturday 6 May 2023. Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands and Her Royal Highness Catharina-Amalia, the Princess of Orange, will attend a reception at Buckingham Palace on 5 May on the eve of the coronation.

Wonderful to have both confirmation and the inclusion of Beatrix and the Princess of Orange on the Coronation Eve.

 

[Minister of Court]

https://www.royal-house.nl/latest/news/2023/04/17/coronation-of-king-charles-iii-and-queen-camilla

His Majesty King Willem-Alexander and Her Majesty Queen Máxima will attend the coronation ceremony of Their Majesties King Charles III and Queen Camilla of the United Kingdom at Westminster Abbey on Saturday 6 May 2023. Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands and Her Royal Highness Catharina-Amalia, the Princess of Orange, will attend a reception at Buckingham Palace on 5 May on the eve of the coronation.

Beatrix and C-A could have handled the Coronation too the next day. No need for W-A and Maxima.

 

[muriel]

Beatrix and C-A could have handled the Coronation too the next day. No need for W-A and Maxima.

So could the Dutch Ambassadoe to the Court of St James'!

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Beatrix and C-A could have handled the Coronation too the next day. No need for W-A and Maxima.

Well if the King’s and Queen’s name is on the invitation card, the King and Queen goes….

Only the British monarch excuses himself/herself and always sends lower representation…. But that’s another story….

 

[lucien]

Well if the King’s and Queen’s name is on the invitation card, the King and Queen goes….

Only the British monarch excuses himself/herself and always sends lower representation…. But that’s another story….

Indeed Hans...But OK,Charles attended two Inthronisations here,in 1980 and 2013..Oh well,not picking

And indeed,if the King and Queen´s name is on the invitation,then apparently they have been invited instead of Mrs and Mr soandso...

 

[Granada]

I bet Queen Maxima is beyond thrilled to be attending The Coronation. Same as Princess Mary of Denmark, who unfortunately wasn't invited to QEll's funeral, I guess do to space allocations.

 

[W.Y.CII]

I alway think it's the monarch/head of state's name on the invitation, but they choose to not attend and someone else instead...... rather than the other members receive an invitation directly.

Nice arrangement from fhe Dutch.

 

[Denville]

Indeed Hans...But OK,Charles attended two Inthronisations here,in 1980 and 2013..Oh well,not picking

And indeed,if the King and Queen´s name is on the invitation,then apparently they have been invited instead of Mrs and Mr soandso...

I dont think its true that ONLY the British monarch did not attend coronations in bygone days. While it wasn't a strict rule as a general thing, most monarchs didn't attend coronations in other countries, but sent other members of the family, so as to allow the focus to be on the monarch who was being crowned.

 

[Somebody]

That is clever planning:

May 5th is Liberation Day with a major public event in Amsterdam, including the royal couple making apassage by boat on Amstel river. Impossible for them to scrap it.

By sending the Princess of Orange and Princess Beatrix to the reception on the eve of the Coronation, the Dutch Royal House is represented at both days.

The Dutch Royal House follows the example of Buckingham Palace and no longer uses "The Queen Consort", so to see.

That's indeed clever planning and a great way of having princess Beatrix introduce her granddaughter on the international royal stage.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I dont think its true that ONLY the British monarch did not attend coronations in bygone days. While it wasn't a strict rule as a general thing, most monarchs didn't attend coronations in other countries, but sent other members of the family, so as to allow the focus to be on the monarch who was being crowned.

The Queen of Tonga famously did attend the Coronation in 1953 but it is true that monarchs usually did not attend. My guess is that the current super-ease to travel all over the world has to do with it as well.

Add to this: the King is of the same generation as a Princess Beatrix or as a King Albert II. Sending the Princess of Orange or the Princess of Asturias or the Duchess of Brabant, as per tradition: these ladies are waaaay younger than his own children. For more than 50 years King Charles has known King Felipe or King Willem-Alexander, their attendance is more logical than the youngest generation of Heirs.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

The Queen of Tonga famously did attend the Coronation in 1953 but it is true that monarchs usually did not attend. My guess is that the current super-ease to travel all over the world has to do with it as well.

Aside from the Queen of Tonga the rulers of 9 other British protectorates attended the Coronation. Tonga was also a British protectorate at the time. They were all men titled either Shaik or Sultan.

 

[Denville]

The Queen of Tonga famously did attend the Coronation in 1953 but it is true that monarchs usually did not attend. My guess is that the current super-ease to travel all over the world has to do with it as well.

A

well my point Is that it was not just the British monarch who used to send a member of the family, rather than attend him/herself. It was most monarchs. Partly probably true that it is now a lot easier to travel for a couple of days and so more monarchs will attend each other's coronations.