William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009


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..... and some priceless advertising for party pieces with the most famous girlfriend in britain. not sinister but clever.

How is it advertising? You have to be already on the site to see the photograph, if you’re already on the site you are either there because you are already looking to buy or because you’re curious. If you’re there to buy then the photograph isn’t going to make a bit of difference either way, if you’re just looking around then you can see a nice photo of Kate but that’s not exactly going to help the Middletons bank balance.

[Edited for off-topic]
 
Yet because you don’t know exactly what it is she does there you want to dismiss her job there?

[edited reply to a deleted post]

I am cynical about Miss Middleton I admit it, and her whole family. They did manage to send her to a good school, that shows they are ambitious and had money to do it, good for them. Then the business took off and they moved to a better house, nothing wrong with that. They moved to a better house and now they have their daughter dating the heir to the British throne. When she was criticized for not working they found her a job, her brother was criticized and seems to have slipped out of sight, that was a good move.
I haven´t seen Pippa in the front row of any fashion show lately so perhaps she is keeping a lower profile now or the papers have lost interest in her, she didn´t seem to be very interesting.
I am sure there are many people who really admire the way this family has managed their lives, no doubt about it, they haven´t done badly at all.
I just know that I, my own opinion, do not want a Queen Party Pieces of England.
 
Hopefully in the near future from the engagement news of Buckingham Palace is open. Prince William and Kate, I have a very worthy. I think I want to get people to Kate.​
 
I just know that I, my own opinion, do not want a Queen Party Pieces of England.

I can understand your sentiment here, but I just want you and all others who are against Catherine as future queen to realise that this is not about a position, but about two people who will have to live and work together if possible for the rest of their lives. So perhaps William as a future husband looks for a completely different set of virtues than you as a potential subject of queen Catherine do. So perhaps the Royal family is not as stupid and easily blinded to the facts of who Catherine is and where she comes from as you obviously think. Only because Charles chose the wrong woman as he did not realise how she was in reality it must not be believed that they make the same fault twice. You might not like it but the way Catherine Middleton has lived her life these past months is very close to the way a future Royal bride should live. There is no need to amass a fortune herself and no need to bring academic merits -she should be nice, well-behaved and loving to William, supporting him in every endeavour while restrain from causing scandals by herself. It is old-fashioned, I agree, but in the end this is what William and his family obviously wants. And it is up to Catherine to decide if this is the life she likes to live or not. She is given a lot of time testing the waters IMHO - we'll see what's coming out of it.
 
No problem, my observation is that I don´t want her as my Queen, with my luck I will probably get her, but then I will become an immediate Republican. :flowers:

I think you are this already but worse still: you are not only someone who believes that the people are the true souverain but someone who believes that it's the right of the public to interfere in anything. Maybe you should remind yourself that there is something of a private sphere for all people - that even if there is freedom of information there is no freedom of incapacitation of someone on choosing his wife for him or discarding his chosen one. :D
 
I think you are this already but worse still: you are not only someone who believes that the people are the true souverain but someone who believes that it's the right of the public to interfere in anything. Maybe you should remind yourself that there is something of a private sphere for all people - that even if there is freedom of information there is no freedom of incapacitation of someone on choosing his wife for him or discarding his chosen one. :D

Well he hasn´t decided yet. If the BRF don´t want the public to interfere in their lives they should not rely on the public´s money to finance their lifestyle. e.g. the two York princesses security, all the palaces the civil list, but on the contrary I think that the Queen does take notice of her people and their mood.
The making of a Queen is a State affair. The Royal family have many privileges and unfortunately for them this means paying a price.
With all due respect Jo, you have no idea what I believe so I wouldn´t go there, I just don´t think that Kate Middleton is a suitable future Queen of England - nothing more.
 
Not sure where to post this, but I'll try here. :) This is a little heads up for you guys who are Wills and Kate fans.

Two of my favorite things are Royal Watching and Decorating, with an eye to 'Grand Houses'. One of my favorite blogs, COTE DE TEXAS just did a wonderful piece on Oliver Messel's houses on Mustique, including photos of Rocina where Wills and Kate stayed. If you are curious about the house this is a good chance to see some of the inside.

Oddly, she did a piece on safari camps in Africa recently too. When I saw those gorgeous setups my first thought was "That's why the Princes are always going there!"

Enjoy! And Happy Royal Watching!

:)
 
When Kate started dating William, perhaps the Middletons should have done like the politicians do and put their business in a blind trust. :rolleyes: But, honestly, anyone who William would have dated for this long would have had information about her parents' work put in the public sphere.

If the Middletons put a picture of ALL their employees on their website, would this stop the criticism?


Well she definitely managed to be their pr agent and got their little firm onto most front pages of British papers which is definitely good for them and the family business.
 
When Kate started dating William, perhaps the Middletons should have done like the politicians do and put their business in a blind trust. :rolleyes: But, honestly, anyone who William would have dated for this long would have had information about her parents' work put in the public sphere.

If the Middletons put a picture of ALL their employees on their website, would this stop the criticism?

You mean put the photos of all eight (or thereabouts) of them?
It is a very small internet business which seems to be earning them all a very good living.
 
Yes, that's what I mean.:flowers:

They are already there....:flowers: I don´t know for sure but I think Kate was added on just about the time there was the rumour that the Queen said she should have a job. (Actually I doubt the Queen said this but that is the story that went around, it was good timing though).
 
No problem, my observation is that I don´t want her as my Queen, with my luck I will probably get her, but then I will become an immediate Republican. :flowers:

We seem to be seeing this "I will become an immediate republican" a lot these days from several people: if Charles and That Woman take the throne, if William takes the throne, if William marries Kate.

I thought the point of monarchy was that it's a system that's greater than the particular individuals involved, and that it isn't a popularity contest like so many elections. By the very nature of things, a hereditary system is going to come up with some better and some worse monarchs, and some of them are going to marry more or less suitable spouses. The British monarchy has survived some pretty worthless monarchs and consorts in the past and has given us some pretty good ones.

Why is this case any worse than Edward II, Richard II, Isabella of France, or Caroline of Brunswick?
 
That's how I've understood monarchy as well. But as the personalities of the Royal Family are seen more and more as celebrities (by their own fault or not), the institution of monarchy becomes seen more and more as a consumer option; i.e. if you don't like the product, shop around until you find something better. (If you don't like Tom Cruise, don't go to see his movies. If you don't like Prince Charles or Prince William, become a republican.) I think that if the British Monarchy fails, it won't be because the institution has failed to do its job; it will fail because it's been trivialized to death. I hope that the day never comes.:nonono:

I thought the point of monarchy was that it's a system that's greater than the particular individuals involved, and that it isn't a popularity contest like so many elections.
 
"Trivialised to death" that´s really good, I like it. :flowers:
Many years past when the monarchy was absolute the people more or less accepted that the good came with the bad. Actually I don´t think the common people even knew much about the monarchs as people. They saw the results of their rule but not the actual monarch as a person. The consorts were usually foreign princesses picked for their dowries (part of Catherine Braganza´s dowry was paid in sugar) and these women were considered suitable because of this dowry and the royal blood that would continue the bloodline of the particular House that was ruling at the time.
Nowadays the people are more aware of where their money goes and to whom, I believe that when the "so called girl next door" marries the heir to the throne then people will start to question the reason they are holding these people in such awe and funding their expensive life style hence the mention of republic.
Besides in this particular case I think both Prince William and Kate are boring people and together they just might send all Britain to sleep so all might be well, no one will notice what they are doing or how much they are spending or anything else about them, they may just live happily ever after boring each other and of course occasionally shooting at animals for fun.
 
Menarue,
You have made great points in posts #2763 and 2776. Indeed, people held more respect for monarchy as an societal institution by seeing "the results of the rule but not the actual monarch as a person". I find the definition of monarchy in Bouvier Law Dictionary (1914) accurate. "A monarchy is the government which is ruled (really or theoretically) by one person, who is wholly set apart from all other members of the state's (called his subjects)". The current trend of celebretising royalty has done serious harm by making the line, which sets King/Prince apart from the rest, very thin. There is no mystique surrounding a royal romance and charming subjects to give their full support to their institution as well as no dowry of a strategic nature Ms.Middleton could bring.
 
Nowadays the people are more aware of where their money goes and to whom, I believe that when the "so called girl next door" marries the heir to the throne then people will start to question the reason they are holding these people in such awe and funding their expensive life style hence the mention of republic.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm no expert on the complicated relationship between the monarchy and taxpayer money, but the people aren't really "funding their expensive lifestyle," are they? I thought that public money was used to fund the civil list, which only The Queen and Prince Philip benefit from, and that most everyone else gets public money from the privy purse, which is paid back. And on top of that, royals like William are funded by the Duchy of Cornwall, so they're not actually being funded by taxpayers at all, right?

I was just under the impression that things like vacations, houses, clothes, etc. -- those "expensive lifestyle" bits -- were coming from their own pockets, not yours.
 
The official residences are kept up by the state; i.e. Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle. I read that the last Princess of Wales had a clothing allowance for official overseas visits, but I don't know whether that also extends to other members of the family.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm no expert on the complicated relationship between the monarchy and taxpayer money, but the people aren't really "funding their expensive lifestyle," are they? I thought that public money was used to fund the civil list, which only The Queen and Prince Philip benefit from, and that most everyone else gets public money from the privy purse, which is paid back. And on top of that, royals like William are funded by the Duchy of Cornwall, so they're not actually being funded by taxpayers at all, right?

I was just under the impression that things like vacations, houses, clothes, etc. -- those "expensive lifestyle" bits -- were coming from their own pockets, not yours.
 
The official residences are kept up by the state; i.e. Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle. I read that the last Princess of Wales had a clothing allowance for official overseas visits, but I don't know whether that also extends to other members of the family.
Any royal on an official overseas visit receives a generous clothing allowance as do their Ladies in Waiting.:flowers:
 
Any royal on an official overseas visit receives a generous clothing allowance as do their Ladies in Waiting.:flowers:

So that would be, as you say, specifically for visits where they will be photographed as representatives of the British nation, I would assume. That makes sense -- it's about looking sharp to create a good impression about the UK, not about personal extravagance.

I'd sort of put official residences in the same category, especially if they're open to the public. Those places are as much a part of the heritage of Britain as they are personal houses, and they're also money-makers as tourist draws. I suppose the royals are more like caretakers in that respect than homeowners. It's not like any of them could sell Clarence House to fund a ridiculous tiara habit or anything.
 
:previous:
Money-makers as tourist draws is a somewhat flawed assumption. I do not think that tourists visit the UK with a sole intention to meet a member of the Royal family. Winter Palace in Russia, Versailles in France, or Forbidden City in China attract tourists as much as the Buckingham Palace does.
 
I have deleted posts because they were too personal, off-topic and at times, unnecessarily harsh against members or people being discussed.

Keep it cool. This is a forum where you want to relax, not look for more troubles.

Thanks,
TheTruth
British Forum Moderator
 
Why is this case any worse than Edward II, Richard II, Isabella of France, or Caroline of Brunswick?
The monarchs you are citing lived in very different times where a Monarchy was seen as the only possible political system (or at least the only one that would be likely to be accepted by a majority of people). So yes, people did accept that there would be bad monarchs and most of them didn't wish for the monarchy to end but hoped the next monarch would be better.
It is the same situation with Gordon Brown: just because a majority of people hates him and his government doesn't mean they wish Democracy to be abolished, they just wants his successor to do a better job.

The situation is different nowadays because people have less and less trouble imagining a Republican system replacing a Monarchy. It's been done elsewhere, and successfully, so why not?
Already, the younger generations is confused as to what role the Windsor still fulfill beside being ribbon cutters and jet-setters.
At some point there was a mystique and a sense of deference for people who embodied British history and a certain vision of Britain, and had a bloodline to show for it.
I don't believe Royals should be barred from marrying commoners, but when they do, these people should bring something really special to make up for their ordinary birth.

By seeking normality, seriously dating a girl with not a single outstanding quality or accomplishment, adding to his own personal failures and image problems, William is failing in the only role that is till being asked of him, imo, which is to embody a vision of Britain people can relate to yet respect and admire.
If he marries Kate and if that trend of marrying dull commoners perdues, the British people will start asking why they are funding or are being represented by a bunch of ordinary people playing dress-up.

As for the people who are arguing that a Royal marriage is a private matter (?!!?) and that the people should just mind their own business, I will just say that this kind of attitude contribute towards the demise of that institution. My opinion.
Those places are as much a part of the heritage of Britain as they are personal houses, and they're also money-makers as tourist draws. I suppose the royals are more like caretakers in that respect than homeowners. It's not like any of them could sell Clarence House to fund a ridiculous tiara habit or anything.
In addition to civil list you have to add the security costs, the costs of organising public duties, etc.
As for the Royal residences, the main reason they are able to enjoy them is because they are the Royal family.
If you want to have an idea of what this family really cost the taxpayer, try to look at it this way: should the monarchy be abolished, what would they be able to still claim theirs?
And that tourist attraction thing is a flawed argument, imo. People do not come to Britain because of the Windsors but because of the Palaces and Castles and all that Royal heritage.
The Queen doesn't do guided tours.
Would the Monarchy be abolished there would be even more tourist money to be made because all the Royal residences could be open all year round, not just when and where it's convenient for them.

Britain would just become like France, whose cultural heritage is still a huge tourist draw three centuries after they chopped Louis and M-A's head.
The history buffs would still visit whether there was an actual reigning family and the star-gazers will say: 'Oh look, that is the chair Queen Elisabeth II used to sit on' and that would be enough royal cachet for them.
 
And that tourist attraction thing is a flawed argument, imo. People do not come to Britain because of the Windsors but because of the Palaces and Castles and all that Royal heritage. The Queen doesn't do guided tours. Would the Monarchy be abolished there would be even more tourist money to be made because all the Royal residences could be open all year round, not just when and where it's convenient for them.

Britain will just become like France, whose cultural heritage is still a huge tourist draw three centuries after they chopped Louis and M-A's head.
The history buff would still visit whether their was an actual family visiting or not and the star-gazer will say: 'Oh look, that is the chair Queen Elisabeth II used to sit on' and that would be enough royal cachet for them.

I'm sure there actually are some people who would visit Britain with queens as well as castles foremost in their mind, but even if a tourist isn't there solely for that purpose, they're certainly still showing up to pay the admission fee at these residences, and that money is helping to preserve the historical buildings. When I lived in London, I frequently saw queues outside BP during the period of the year when it was open to tourists.

I'm quite aware that HM's not showing them the china, thanks very much, but I do think that her presence is a draw. How else would you explain the people who gather to see her drive by on the way to the State Opening of Parliament? There's an added level of mystique to the British monarchy, IMO, because the throne is still inhabited. You don't get that at a place like Versailles -- it's not an example of living history the way that a place like Buckingham Palace is. It's just a museum. I've been to both, and I don't think you can compare the two. I think the palaces and sites in Britain would lose something about them if there was no longer someone wearing the crown.
 
I'm sure there actually are some people who would visit Britain with queens as well as castles foremost in their mind, but even if a tourist isn't there solely for that purpose, they're certainly still showing up to pay the admission fee at these residences, and that money is helping to preserve the historical buildings. When I lived in London, I frequently saw queues outside BP during the period of the year when it was open to tourists.
I don't understand how this constitues a counter-argument to what I've just wrote.
How else would you explain the people who gather to see her drive by on the way to the State Opening of Parliament?
Because she is a world-famous woman. People in France gather to see Sarkozy and his trophy wife or any other celebrity for the same reason.
There's an added level of mystique to the British monarchy, IMO, because the throne is still inhabited. You don't get that at a place like Versailles -- it's not an example of living history the way that a place like Buckingham Palace is.
That doesn't translate into more money though as Versailles is a bigger tourist draw that Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle. You may think the air is more rarefied if the family still lives there but if they didn't those attractions would very likely be more profitable.
To be clear, I do not think money only is a valid reason to abolish the monarchy.
 
I don't understand how this constitues a counter-argument to what I've just wrote.

I'm not trying to counter-argue, Idriel. I'm just trying to discuss the topic at hand. I don't see this as a debate with a winner. We're all just having conversations here, and you and I obviously have incompatible opinions on this subject.
 
I'm not trying to counter-argue, Idriel. I'm just trying to discuss the topic at hand. I don't see this as a debate with a winner. We're all just having conversations here, and you and I obviously have incompatible opinions on this subject.
I didn't want to come off as aggressive, Ella Kay.

By counter-argument, I just meant that I though, judging by your wording, that you were presenting a different approach or opinion on the subject. I just didn't see what was the difference between what you were saying and what I was saying.
And you are right, TRF doesn't distribute prizes for best Internet fights to the death (shall we lobby the mods about that?) so I never expect to win anything by debating. I don't even seek to change any one's mind. I just like to chat and exchange views.

Happy Valentine to all the members concerned.
Happy Valentine Kate. This year maybe... :D
 
Thanks for the clarification, Idriel. It's difficult to tell sometimes when someone is merely being passionate or looking for a fight. Though if we did have those fight-to-the-death prizes, that distinction might go away completely. ;)

As far as Valentine's Day and Kate goes, since we're speculating all over the place in this thread, what kinds of Valentine presents do you think Prince William buys for his favorite girl? Baubles and shiny things? More gun accessories? New wellies to wear out on a shoot? :D
 
iwon.gif


There you go ladies. Now back on topic please. ;)
 
Have read previous posts as regards to the Monarchy and costs involved and would like to point out that Presidents in such countries as the US have security paid for their families and their homes likewise Presidential candidates/ex Presidents and their families at least with a monarchy you have only one family to pay for
 
Whew went back further and it seems the discussion has gotten pretty heated Oh well we dont have much to talk about in current events ectera This couple do seem to have kept out of the public view for a good while. Here is a Question for you all, many people have cited William as failing to defend Kate from media persecution as a sign of apathy Does the inclusion of her at his important events ( order of the garter getting his wings) not count as a statement by him that she is important in his life and is there to share what counts????? I only ask because some people seem to think that you meet/ announce/ marry whereas I think this may be a modern romance where there can be a very long time between meeting/dating/engagement/marriage. Will must be cautious after his parents disaster and what girl wouldnt look at the same and hesitate?? So again he has included her in the important events in his life why do peolple dismiss her???
( yes I would like to hear a rumour that she was learning languages/history/anything)
 
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