William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009

[Lady Ann]

Oh Menarue, I bet you hope she shines some where besides Windsor Castle lol...just kidding.........happy posting .....

 

[Jo of Palatine]

How do you know she is quiet and discreet and not scheming and bidding her time until she gets the big prize? You don't, it's just the impression she makes on you based on what you know of her.

No, it's the impression she makes on me based on what I don't get to hear. We heard so many negative things about Diana in school - if Diana had dated Charles for longer, we surely would have had so many people telling on her! But nobody tells negative stories about Catherine. Why? Because there are none to tell, otherwise they would be out in the open by now!

 

[Menarue]

Perhaps there are a lot of people who would like an invitation to a royal wedding?

 

[Idriel]

But nobody tells negative stories about Catherine!

You must be kidding. I don't have the time nor the inclination to dig up material but there has been less than flattering stories about Kate and her family (I am not talking about the usual 'sources' but from people with actual names).
And a few posts ago you were arguing that journalists would not have access to such basic info such as whether she could speak good Italian after her stay there but you think they would have access to info about her personality?
Your logic confounds me.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Perhaps he has not yet succeeded in nabbing her.

We can only hope, but then she hasn´t nabbed the prince yet.

 

[cde]

I have never claimed she took the art history with the Italian program at St. Andrews.All I am saying is it is entirely possible she is passably fluent in Italian. I think is very possible she continued with her Italian when she went to Uni, since there was room in her art history programme and later she kept up with the language on her own. "The degree structures at St Andrews allow you to sample a variety of subjects in your first two years. This flexibility is a great advantage.( art history leaflet) The first year and second year schedules requires 1 art history class per semester. ( I checked) That is 2 classes per semester she can take classes outside of her major for 2 years.
Single Honours Degrees. These are degrees where credits for an Honours programme are obtained predominantly in one subject. Flexibility at Honours level, means that one or two modules (less than 60 credits total) may occasionally be taken outwith the named subject area. The second subject in these cases is not named in the Degree and the degrees are still classified as Single Honours Degrees. From St. Andrews's Catalogue.

3 months in Italy is hardly an indication that she is some sort of Italian speaking whizz kid. IMRIC Scottish degrees run along the same sort of lines as English degrees and you don't just "pick up" subjects as you do in the US.

St. Andrews does offer an art history degree with Italian, but it have NEVER once been mentioned anywhere online that she studied this programme, it's always been described as a straight-forward art history degree.

Moreover, students who combine degrees with a lanugage usually study abroa. I know people who studied subjects like law and business who ended up abroad as a result of the language they offered. The ERASMUS programme, which is available to all EU students is an option Kate did not follow.

 

[Menarue]

Perhaps there are a lot of people who would like an invitation to a royal wedding?

Like the words of that song "The Boy Chases the Girl until She Catches HIm"

 

[Jo of Palatine]

You must be kidding. I don't have the time nor the inclination to dig up material but there has been less than flattering stories about Kate and her family (I am not talking about the usual 'sources' but from people with actual names).

Please, take the time. I'm not aware that there were stories with people actually giving their names, so I'm more than a little bit curious. It would put the discussion here on a different level, I think.

And a few posts ago you were arguing that journalists would not have access to such basic info such as whether she could speak good Italian after her stay there but you think they would have access to info about her personality?
Your logic confounds me.

My point was that I was talking about her time in school. People who have knowledge about her and like her tend to keep silent in order not to make her life anymore difficult than it already is. Today she can surround herself only with such people.

But back in school she had to cope with whoever was enrolled at the same time - there must have been girls or teachers there who didn't like her and don't feel protective towards her. Still, these people don't turn up telling negative things about her. So the probability is very high that there simply aren't such things to tell. She obviously didn't make plans how to spend the millions of her future millionaire husband, she didn't dream of becoming a model, she probably was as down-to-earth and as quiet as she appears to be today. Okay, it has been said she already had a crush on William but I bet a lot of school girls had back then. And I doubt it was about becoming William's queen....

So this lack of information from back then tells me that she has been a quiet and discreet young lady with a friendly character ever sice she was placed in a public surrounding like a boarding school. A bit like Silvia of Sweden: there were no scandals or attempts at character assassination in her past, she did not marry her king because she only wanted to become queen but because she loved him, she dated the king quietly for years till she married him, she became a great queen consort and mother and still she seems to love her husband and he her - they are a bit boring but nice and their people love them. That's what I think Catherine and William could become: quiet but nice and friendly, a bit boring but always in love and well-loved by their people.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

A bit like Silvia of Sweden: there were no scandals or attempts at character assassination in her past, she did not marry her king because she only wanted to become queen but because she loved him, she dated the king quietly for years till she married him, she became a great queen consort and mother and still she seems to love her husband and he her - they are a bit boring but nice and their people love them. That's what I think Catherine and William could become: quiet but nice and friendly, a bit boring but always in love and well-loved by their people.

whether this also applies to kate we don't know. she has the "social climber" label attached to her more than anyone else. a comparison is rather pointless so i only mention the most striking difference, unlike silvia kate never had a career of her own but only spends her time sticking like superglue on her man - and she lives in 2009, not in 1972 what makes quite a difference regarding womens' career opportunities - what speaks volumes to me.

to say that william is nice but friendly ... i don't know. imo he's one of the major actors in royalty around these days, and not in a positive way. he's certainly boring but again in a negative way - same goes for kate - it all goes in the direction "reluctant", "snobby" or "only living to own advantage", what keeps them both from winning a popularity contest. imo they are an outdated couple.

 

[muriel]

How do you know she is quiet and discreet and not scheming and bidding her time until she gets the big prize? You don't, it's just the impression she makes on you based on what you know of her............. If we don't know enough to form a proper opinion then it should go both way, no?

Where I do not have full information, I would like to believe that most people give the said person the benefit of the doubt, and presume they are "normal" people, and not "scheming" or anything else. I am not attaching any positive attriubutes to Kate (other than whatI can observe), and nor am I attaching any negative ones.

Speaking several major languages is an invaluable asset for anyone, but even more if you are a first lady or a similar position.All? No.
There are hard facts out there, verifiable information, biographical details, school and university friends (with real names) who have openly spoke about her, pictures (they don't tell the whole story but there are not speculation). Her employment history is well known apart from what exactly she does now (if anything) with her parents. Her former boss telling that she wanted a non demanding job so she could see her boyfriend would also be reliable info, etc.
Of course alongside that there are speculative articles that one choose to believe or not (if you have followed my post it's pretty obvious I am not so naive to swallow things whole) and opinion pieces one may agree or disagree with.

I am also confused by one thing: the same people who say that Kate has no privacy are the ones who claim she is a total mystery. They also claim she is hounded but also able the keep whole parts of her life (conveniently, the parts where she does meaningful things) hidden and secret. I think this is totally possible now she is in the country but how did she manage that in London with all those paps and prying journalists harassing her?

In general, I would have preferred if Kate (if she is to be the one) had a "normal" career independent of her family, and had achieved a certain position before she married into the family. That said, I think she was fortunate in having the opportunity of working for her parents, and that allowed her to completely side step the media charade that would follow her around London.

As regards languages, I have to admit that I am afraid that that is a bit of a dying art. There was certainly a time when speaking languages was synonymous with good breeding, but I certainly do not see it like that. As the world converges, English has truely emerged as a global language, and rightly or wrongly, everybody else has had to learn tospeak English as a second language. As a result, speaking different languages just does not have the relevance today that it did, even 15 years ago , though I accept that "speaking several major languages is an invaluable asset for anyone"

Her employment history is well known apart from what exactly she does now (if anything) with her parents. Her former boss telling that she wanted a non demanding job so she could see her boyfriend would also be reliable info, etc.

I think Sky has commented on this already. Belle Robinson merely commented that Kate required a degre of flexibility with her role, as opposed to a "non demanding job"

As you may be aware for a long time the press presented it as fact that Kate had got her job with Jigsaw as the Robinsons were friends of her parents or the PoW, depending on which stories you followed. It was only when Belle spoke tothe press was it clarified that Kate herself had approached Belle and asked for a job.

I have brought this up only to demonstrate that the press often get it wrong, as they have so little information about Kate to base their stories on, so much for the "hard facts out there, verifiable information, biographical details, school and university friends (with real names) who have openly spoke about her, pictures"....

 

[Jo of Palatine]

whether this also applies to kate we don't know. she has the "social climber" label attached to her more than anyone else. a comparison is rather pointless so i only mention the most striking difference, unlike silvia kate never had a career of her own but only spends her time sticking like superglue on her man - and she lives in 2009, not in 1972 what makes quite a difference regarding womens' career opportunities - what speaks volumes to me.

That "social climber"-label is something anybody will have to live with once he or she finds a Partner/spouse from a much higher social level. In a way Lady Diana Spencer was a social climber as well - anyone can be accussed of that if he or she is not a Royal by birth. As for catherine's career - well, she works in her parent's enterprise. Noone accuses Dr. med Holly Branson to be spending her time idle because she gave up her medical profession in order to join her father's company. Where's the difference? Again: we don't know enough about Catherine to be judging her in such a harsh way. There are "kids" who are idling away their time on "working" in their parent's enterprise and those who actually are preparing to take it over one day. As Pippa and James both have their own professions by now, that leaves Catherine....

 

[muriel]

whether this also applies to kate we don't know. she has the "social climber" label attached to her more than anyone else. a comparison is rather pointless so i only mention the most striking difference, unlike silvia kate never had a career of her own but only spends her time sticking like superglue on her man - and she lives in 2009, not in 1972 what makes quite a difference regarding womens' career opportunities - what speaks volumes to me.

to say that william is nice but friendly ... i don't know. imo he's one of the major actors in royalty around these days, and not in a positive way. he's certainly boring but again in a negative way - same goes for kate - it all goes in the direction "reluctant", "snobby" or "only living to own advantage", what keeps them both from winning a popularity contest. imo they are an outdated couple.

Give me an example of one person (from a non royal background) who could potentially be marrying into the royal family and not be accused of social climbing?

This was a term that certain section of the media started to use, as part of their negative campaign against Kate. Hardly surprising!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Give me an example of one person (from a non royal background) who could potentially be marrying into the royal family and not be accused of social climbing?

This was a term that certain section of the media started to use, as part of their negative campaign against Kate. Hardly surprising!

most women would be accused of a social climbing / attention seeking motivation who can provide such an "excellent" background for these allegations as kate does:

a) the length of her relationship with william - holding out as "waity katie" in combination with the visible lack of protection / commitment from william's side
b) kate's flashy appearances in london's nightlife with her new upper class friends - william's circle - who wouldn't even have a second look at her if she wasn't associated to him
c) probably the most important issue, the lack of an own career, at first visibly indulging in shopping, parties, vacations, then, after critizism getting the jigsaw job but quitting because the job wouldn't accommodate kate's (william's?) needs, then going back to shopping etc, more critizism, this time a bit harsher so the solution is doing an "alibi" job at her parent's company who don't hesitate to promote their business with kate's picture on the website - and all this because the big prize, william's ring, seems to be worth waiting for.

it's not just an invention of "certain parts of the media" - people simply don't buy the "discreet kate" image that some other parts of the media want to implement. this "going nowhere thing" has been going on for far too long now - and it's kate's image that is being harmed, not william's. so what does that tell us about the caring boyfriend's attitude and about kate's personality who keeps hanging on no matter what? nothing posivite i am afraid.

 

[muriel]

a) the length of her relationship with william - holding out as "waity katie" in combination with the visible lack of protection / commitment from william's side

I had no idea that being in a steady relationship for 5-6 years was odd, uncommon or an indication of being a social climber. Thats what young people do these days, especially if you met at university. Most young people do not marry these days till they are in their late 20s or about 30, so I can't see anything odd here.

As regards the "visible lack of protection / commitment from william's side", what other than an engagement would you expect? She has been with him at the key times of his life, increasingly in very public fora (Sandhurt passing out, getting his RAF wings, Garter ceremony). They cannot live together full time becuase of his commitment with the armed forces, but clearly spend a lot of his free time together.

b) kate's flashy appearances in london's nightlife with her new upper class friends - william's circle - who wouldn't even have a second look at her if she wasn't associated to him

If you have been together at university, a lot of his friends are also likley to be her friends (often referred to as "their" friends ). As regards his other friends, in time, they have clearly become her friends as well. Its not that she has been completely surrouned by his friends only. She is often seen out wth her sister as well.... but then some people claim that Pippa is a social climber also because she sometimes goes out with her sister and his boyfriend.

so the solution is doing an "alibi" job at her parent's company

There is absolutely no information in the public domain as to whether it s a reql jb or an "alibi" job - unless you want to believe it is an alibi job.

this "going nowhere thing" has been going on for far too long now - and it's kate's image that is being harmed, not william's.

So since when is it that the Court of the Daily Mail decide what is acceptable in a arelationship and what is not, as opposed to the couple themselves forming a view?

 

[Sunnystar]

snipping to just the pertinent part...

promote their business with kate's picture on the website

Do you know how many companies, especially smaller, family-owned ones, similar in size to Party Pieces, put pictures of their employees on their company website or use group shots of their whole staff in newspaper advertising?

I work for a regional distributor of a couple major HVAC brands in the US, processing dealer advertising claims among other things. I review their advertising on a weekly (sometimes daily, depending on the time of year) basis. You would be surprised how many of these smaller, yet highly successful, companies use pictures of their family on their websites, in their print advertising, or even read the voiceovers themselves for TV and radio commercials.

It's one of those things that makes a company seem more accessible, normal, "just like everyone else", personable, friendly, family-oriented. I find it hardly something worth condemning, that her parents would put her photo, as an employee, up on their website. They are certainly not the first, nor will they be the last.

 

[Amelia]

I not sure I even understand how having Kate photograph on the site even promote their business. No doubt the constant mentioning of her parents business when writing about Kate by the press has helped raise it’s profile hugely but a photo that you won’t see unless you are already on the site (and therefore already looking to buy), I’m not sure how that helps. They sell inexpensive party supplies, I don’t think telling your child’s party guests that the paper cup that they are using was bought from Prince William’s girlfriends parents company is going to impress them much. People buy them because they are having a party and need them.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I not sure I even understand how having Kate photograph on the site even promote their business. No doubt the constant mentioning of her parents business when writing about Kate by the press has helped raise it’s profile hugely but a photo that you won’t see unless you are already on the site (and therefore already looking to buy), I’m not sure how that helps.

i am. it's killing two birds with one stone - when it became clear that kate was actually doing something after the jigsaw job the name party pieces was all over place, getting everyone's attention and not only the attention of people who were about to plan their kids' birthday. many people will have looked up the site to see what the company is all about. putting a picture of kate / mentioning her services on the site is handy for both parties - for kate it screams "see, i do have a job" and for the middletons it screams "yes, here is the proof, this is where kate works, have a closer look". for me "discreet" is something else.

 

[Amelia]

See I still don’t agree, if like you said people read about the company in the press and looked up the site then that has nothing to do with Kate’s photo. A thousand curious people can look up the site an hour but if they don’t buy anything then that is not going to help support the Middletons. Like I said they are inexpensive party supplies, people are not going to buy them if they don’t need them simply because of Kate’s connection (or if they do then their issues are beyond the Middletons control).

As for Kate proving she works there, well what do you want from her exactly. You have said in post after post that she should do something with her life, that she should have a job/career. Well this is what she is doing with her life, this is her career. When it was unknown what she was doing after Jigsaw she was run into the ground, so this comes out and yet that is wrong too.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

for me "discreet" is something else.

In the end it will depend on how William and his family judge her discretion among other things. If Catherine really is such a schemer, she surely asked for the advice of William's aides before she let her parents use her picture that way.So I guess the BRF does not share your sentiment.

 

[muriel]

i am. it's killing two birds with one stone - when it became clear that kate was actually doing something after the jigsaw job the name party pieces was all over place, getting everyone's attention and not only the attention of people who were about to plan their kids' birthday.

The name Party Pieces was all over the place long before the world found out that Kate worked there. It was all over the place from the time that the world discovered that William had a girlfriend, and press snooped around to find out what her parents did.

 

[muriel]

putting a picture of kate / mentioning her services on the site is handy for both parties

IMO, that does not read very well!

 

[Menarue]

IMO, that does not read very well!

Well I understand this perfectly.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

snipping to just the pertinent part...
Do you know how many companies, especially smaller, family-owned ones, similar in size to Party Pieces, put pictures of their employees on their company website or use group shots of their whole staff in newspaper advertising?

I work for a regional distributor of a couple major HVAC brands in the US, processing dealer advertising claims among other things. I review their advertising on a weekly (sometimes daily, depending on the time of year) basis. You would be surprised how many of these smaller, yet highly successful, companies use pictures of their family on their websites, in their print advertising, or even read the voiceovers themselves for TV and radio commercials.

It's one of those things that makes a company seem more accessible, normal, "just like everyone else", personable, friendly, family-oriented. I find it hardly something worth condemning, that her parents would put her photo, as an employee, up on their website. They are certainly not the first, nor will they be the last.

I'm waiting for a response to this. Of course I'm not holding my breath. Nothing like reason to shut down ridiculous assertions. Good for you Sunnystar.

Kate and William are now quietly going about their lives. No Kate photos in the press, which is GREAT, so those who continue to hurl nasty accusations at her with no proof, no pictures, and certainly no reason all while whining because there are no pictures or news about her look more and more ridiculous by the second, if that's possible. She's quietly going about her life and work, and some still can't move on. Scoreboard, Kate.

 

[Menarue]

I'm waiting for a response to this. Of course I'm not holding my breath. Nothing like reason to shut down ridiculous assertions. Good for you Sunnystar.

I wonder how many of those companies Sunnystar has mentioned have someone like the girlfriend of the grandson of the Queen of England to put on their pages, if they did I bet it would be considered very good business to put her picture there and say that she was working for them. I am sure that a small family business like the Middleton´s would be sure to use the photo, but please don´t ever call them discreet, there is nothing discreet about this, it is just good business.

 

[Luv2Cruise]

WHO CARES!!!!!!! The point is these companies ALREADY POST PICTURES ON THEIR SITES, FAMOUS OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What possible difference does it make in life if the Middletons put their daughter's photo on their website? She works there, she is not a leper!!! How can this possibly be interpreted as some sinister motive by the Middletons??!!! It is a SMALL, FAMILY RUN BUSINESS. Pictures of family and a key employee are/were on the site!!!! BIG......DEAL!!!!!!

THESE NON-STOP ACCUSATIONS ARE INSANE!!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

What possible difference does it make in life if the Middletons put their daughter's photo on their website?

is this a serious question? if kate and her family are so discreet, then why not work there in a discreet manner? the picture on the website covers two things: kate's proof of work and some priceless advertising for party pieces with the most famous girlfriend in britain. not sinister but clever.

 

[muriel]

is this a serious question? if kate and her family are so discreet, then why not work there in a discreet manner? the picture on the website covers two things: kate's proof of work and some priceless advertising for party pieces with the most famous girlfriend in britain. not sinister but clever.

When people are buying party supplies for a child's party, they tend to go to places that offer the nicest or the cheapest source they can find. A lot has been said that this is blatantly cashing in on the relationship between Wills & Kate, but I think that all this will lead to is perhaops, more people visitng the site, but not necessarily buying. People will still by from where they can get the nicest / cheapest product. Its hardly the equivalent of a Prada handbag, IMO!

 

[Skydragon]

is this a serious question? if kate and her family are so discreet, then why not work there in a discreet manner? the picture on the website covers two things: kate's proof of work and some priceless advertising for party pieces with the most famous girlfriend in britain. not sinister but clever.

If they had taken out a two pager or a slot on prime time TV to advertise their business, with a photo just of Kate, you might have cause to complain. Most small businesses put pictures of their employees up and unless they then put "KATE IS DATING PRINCE WILLIAM" under the photo, then yes they are discreet. Have we seen any mention on Party Pieces website who Kate dates or anything about her private life? No. Why should they lock her away in a cupboard, hide her in the background, she is to them doing a valuable job and they are, proud of their daughter, as most parents are!

 

[muriel]

It is true that lots of people go there just to look and don´t actually buy but from the various descriptions of them as millionaires, very rich etc etc they don´t seem to be doing that badly with their paper cups, hats and things.

One will not know how well they do or they do not. The press commentary on this cannot be relied upon. If some journalist was feeling energetic, they could look up the Companies House filings made by Party Pieces (they are a matter of public record) to see how much profit the group made in any given year .... but that will not necessaruily give a truely accurate picture as it will not set out how much the family may have taken out as salaries, expenses etc etc.

That said, the key point I wanted to make was that if they are wealthy, it is because they have worked hard to build up their business to this point - and not because of whom their daughter is dating!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Well we have their word for it that she works there and actually does something, in this they are so discreet that we don´t know much about what she actually does. Takes photos? Poses with the staff?

don't forget carrying paperboxes in the backyard with staff