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  #141  
Old 08-21-2019, 11:58 AM
Nobility
 
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Somehow, I'm not too surprised, as this President ''talks out of both sides of his mouth.'' It's probably just as well. Your PM handled it very well. Poor lady, she hasn't been in office very long and has already had to deal with Trump. Maybe he didn't want to deal with a female PM.

In one way, I'm a little sorry about this - it would have been a good way for the people of the US to be introduced to the DRF. Some of them seem to think there are no other royal families except the British one.

Actually, I was hoping that if the subject of Greenland came up with QM, she would blow smoke in his face!
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  #142  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:04 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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Here is a video of the US ambassador to DK, Carla sands, commenting on the cancellation: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/tr...-diskutere-alt

She is indeed not a career diplomat, but neither was the former ambassador for the Obama administration.
The cancellation will hardly make her job easier, and this statement won't help either, I'm afraid.
She could have said something meaningless like "we are still close friends and allies, looking forward to new meetings and blah, blah..."
Instead she is basically hinting that it's PM Frederik who is to blame for this, because she rejected talking about selling Greenland, even though DK can't sell Greenland!
As the ambassador she should know that. It was her bloody job to tell her own government that inquiries regarding selling Greenland should have been directed to the Greenlanders first and foremost. "Hello, we'd like to buy you and your country..."

A foreign affairs correspondent, based in USA, said that President Trump may have been taken very much aback by the direct reply by the Danish PM.
Culturally Danes are very direct, sometimes shockingly direct, according to some foreigners. If you ask a Dane a question, expect a direct and frank answer.

BREAKING:
President Trump has just tweeted that it was indeed PM Frederiksen's reply, of the suggestion of buying Greenland being "absurd" that led him to cancel the visit.
He adds that it was impolite and inappropriate and that people should respect each other.
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  #143  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:14 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Here is a video of the US ambassador to DK, Carla sands, commenting on the cancellation: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/tr...-diskutere-alt



BREAKING:
President Trump has just tweeted that it was indeed PM Frederiksen's reply, of the suggestion of buying Greenland being "absurd" that led him to cancel the visit.
He adds that it was impolite and inappropriate and that people should respect each other.
People should respect each other, but he shows respect to no one. He could write a book on being impolite and inappropriate. Every single day he embarrasses our country and pushes our friends and allies away. He is a disgrace.
  #144  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:42 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Just put a sign with "Greenland" on it on a random island nobody needs and he will be fine ^^
  #145  
Old 08-21-2019, 02:19 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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Follow up.

Are you able to watch this video?

It's President Trump's comments on why he cancelled: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2019-0...-og-ikke-paent

ADDED:
DR1 has asked former Master of Ceremonies in the DRF about what happens behind the scenes at such a state visit and what happens when it's cancelled.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/fo...vlt-foer-trump
Due to the very short notice - only about a month - the employees of the court would have been recalled from holidays and burned the midnight oil at the office, preparing the multitudes of things that goes before such a visit.
There is a general manuscript that forms the basis for a state visit and that is adapted according to who is visiting and the relations to that country.
Also together with staff members of the incoming head of state.
Down to such details as placing a little leaflet at each seat at the gala dinner. In that leaflet you can read about the persons you are sitting next to. There would also be menu and a music-program.

Christian Eugen-Olsen cannot remember something similar to this cancellation during his 22 years at the court.
He is however certain QMII would have been very surprised when told.

He speculates whether there will be a letter to QMII from USA. (That is apparently customary when cancelling state visits.) Basically apologizing for not being able to make it and expressing hope they will meet soon.

-----

There are also bewilderment about the staff at the White House. It is after all the job of the staff of a head of state to avoid such - shall we call it misconceptions.
So has the staff at the White House been completely replaced by yes-men?
Or don't they dare speak up at all anymore?

As mentioned before DK is not interested in this particular pot keep boiling. An escalation could be to call the US ambassador to the Foreign Ministry to explain what on earth this is all about and to ask the ambassador to explain to her government why Greenland can't be sold. Pretty much a dressing down of the US ambassador.
But DK won't do that. There will be a lot of unofficial talks between Danish and US diplomats behind the scenes. The professional diplomats that is.
Because both Denmark as well as the US foreign service wish to put a lid on this. As someone commented: "Normally big powers try and camouflage it when they snub a small country. But President trump don't care."

So the aim is to put everything back to normal as soon as possible. If need by with another visit by President Trump, should he wish it. And even though it is clear that Danish government and Danish politicians would much prefer he never come visiting, they would nevertheless be as polite as they have to be. - But it will a pretty cold visit!
  #146  
Old 08-21-2019, 02:44 PM
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I'm guessing the Queen of Denmark is quite relieved she doesn't have to entertain the "King of Israel".
  #147  
Old 08-21-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
I'm guessing the Queen of Denmark is quite relieved she doesn't have to entertain the "King of Israel".
Yes, because who would have precedence?
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  #148  
Old 08-21-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Follow up.

Are you able to watch this video?


-----

There are also bewilderment about the staff at the White House. It is after all the job of the staff of a head of state to avoid such - shall we call it misconceptions.
So has the staff at the White House been completely replaced by yes-men?
Or don't they dare speak up at all anymore?


Unfortunately, this is the case. He sacks anyone who pushes back.
  #149  
Old 08-21-2019, 03:20 PM
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Ridiculous IMO for the President to speak of respect after his actions which lack basic good manners.

Out of interest, would it have been possible for him to still have come on a State Visit and not meet the Prime Minister? I know her would of course have had to meet her at state dinners etc but if his issue was that sitting down and talking about Greenland wasn't going to end his way could he still have come anyway and just not had any long and meaningful discussions? It seems that in trying to snub the PM he has actually more snubbed the Queen (Who issues the invite and was to be -formally- the host)
  #150  
Old 08-21-2019, 03:32 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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And President Trump isn't done with Good ole DK yet:


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
· 26m

For the record, Denmark is only at 1.35% of GDP for NATO spending. They are a wealthy country and should be at 2%. We protect Europe and yet, only 8 of the 28 NATO countries are at the 2% mark. The United States is at a much, much higher level than that....

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

....Because of me, these countries have agreed to pay ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS more - but still way short of what they should pay for the incredible military protection provided. Sorry!

---

Well, I will grant him that one. (The following is my personal opinion.)
The problem is of course how you count the contribution.
The 1.35 % of the DK GNP is the military expenditure alone.
Other countries include pensions to disabled veterans. Or expenses to run military hospitals.
Another country reached 2 % of it's GNP, because its GNP fell!

But yes, Denmark could and should contribute more - for example by not buying insanely expensive F35 fighters - that we are not even sure works! Cheaper alternatives might work just as well.
Traditionally we have placated US complaints by buying pretty expensive US equipment. And taking part in whatever wars USA has been involved in lately - that is another point where money (and lives) could be saved.
And DK is spending more money on defense. We have just reactivated a brigade for rapid deployment (to the Baltic) but you need to have the manpower (conscripts) core personnel I.e. NCOs and officers as well as trained specialists, not to mention equipment and barracks to put them.
Calling up 5.000 more men is no problem, equipping and training them, so that they become useful takes time. Otherwise you just have 5.000 conscripts painting stones white, to pass the time.
Ordering 30 new fighters for the US military means jobs in USA. Ordering 30 new fighters from USA is a huge expense. - See the difference?
Another thing is that USA is a global power with worldwide security interests and as such needs a larger military capability in order to do that job. While the vast majority of European countries are mainly interested in defending Europe and as such have a much more regional view of their security interests.

Okay, someone suggested in this thread that USA should leave NATO.
I agree. USA ought to leave NATO. US and European interests are becoming more and more diverse and Europe needs to be able to stand on it's own feet. It would also be better if as far as possible Europe produced its own weapons and equipment. Create jobs in Europe instead.
Few are concerned about Russia. Good grief. Russian hasn't got the economic power to embark in a major war, let alone the capabilities of invading Europe. And why on earth should they? It would be the equivalent of killing the chickens in order to get to the eggs they are sitting on.
There will of course be a long term price for USA in leaving NATO. - There will be very few bases left in Europe after a number of years and a much more reluctant Europe willing to side with USA in future conflicts.

- That was of course a political sidestep by me.

I don't know how long this thread will remain open. Unless something very dramatic happens, this will soon be yesterdays news and forgotten next month.

I said in the beginning of this thread that I looked very much forward to this visit. Being a behind-the-scenes-geek and a nerd in regards to politics, this has surpassed even my wildest expectations!
  #151  
Old 08-21-2019, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Follow up.

Are you able to watch this video?

It's President Trump's comments on why he cancelled: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/udland/2019-0...-og-ikke-paent
The thing is that all this maneuver gave him the publicity and the world attention he cherishes. This story is, at the end, another platform to showcase his peculiar conception of the world and another good occasion to delight his fan base at home.
In a way Denmark, Greenland, the Danish Royal Family and the Danish people were totally used for the sole purpose of the self-promotion of President Trump.

Wich is, probably, the worse insult of them all ...
  #152  
Old 08-21-2019, 03:45 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Ridiculous IMO for the President to speak of respect after his actions which lack basic good manners.

Out of interest, would it have been possible for him to still have come on a State Visit and not meet the Prime Minister? I know her would of course have had to meet her at state dinners etc but if his issue was that sitting down and talking about Greenland wasn't going to end his way could he still have come anyway and just not had any long and meaningful discussions? It seems that in trying to snub the PM he has actually more snubbed the Queen (Who issues the invite and was to be -formally- the host)
Not really.
The protocol of a state visits includes meeting the government, a visit to the Parliament as well a meeting prominent politicians. President is not only head of state, he is also head of government, so protocol dictates that he also meet with his political counterpart, the Danish PM.
The meeting could of course have been brief and very formal, but he could not have avoided meeting with the PM.

Normally when countries wish to discuss something they sound out each other discreetly first and only when the negotiations are up and running does the government leaders come in.
US diplomats sound out Danish diplomats in order to find out whether there would be an interest in selling Greenland.
If there might by, other diplomats quietly contacts Danish diplomats to convey the message to the Danish Foreign Ministry the USA is interested in taking over/buying Greenland. Eventually all this quiet talk back and forth reach Foreign Minister level and by now there are direct talks about the details.
The details become a draft to negotiate about. (That can easily take many years.)
And it's about this level it becomes something that directly involves the head of governments. It's still not clear that it will amount to anything but now it's official.

President Trump skipped all this.
I'm pretty certain nether the US Congress nor the Treasury or foreign service was consulted.
  #153  
Old 08-21-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
The thing is that all this maneuver gave him the publicity and the world attention he cherishes. This story is, at the end, another platform to showcase his peculiar conception of the world and another good occasion to delight his fan base at home.
In a way Denmark, Greenland, the Danish Royal Family and the Danish people were totally used for the sole purpose of the self-promotion of President Trump.

Wich is, probably, the worse insult of them all ...
Too right. I wish others in the US could see trump as clearly as you do.
  #154  
Old 08-21-2019, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella E. View Post
Too right. I wish others in the US could see trump as clearly as you do.
Yes, you have hit it on the head to most of the country's chagrin.
  #155  
Old 08-21-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
The thing is that all this maneuver gave him the publicity and the world attention he cherishes. This story is, at the end, another platform to showcase his peculiar conception of the world and another good occasion to delight his fan base at home.
In a way Denmark, Greenland, the Danish Royal Family and the Danish people were totally used for the sole purpose of the self-promotion of President Trump.

Wich is, probably, the worse insult of them all ...

I also quite agree with your thinking here Nico. Grandiose sell promotion in the vain of any publicity is good publicity.
It also puts him on the world stage and takes the focus away from some of his domestic problems for a little while.
A totally unpredicable world leader, and if some decent credible solid candidates don't come forward soon with proper backing then I can see world leaders having to put up with this guy for another four years after the 2020 election.
Surely he won't bother going to Poland now. Or will he!
  #156  
Old 08-21-2019, 05:25 PM
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An interesting angle from New York Times (which I know is very critical of President Trump.)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/u...-minister.html

According to the article the President already lost interest in visiting DK, even before PM Frederiksen, called the whole thing absurd.
In other words this is an attempt of a face-saving way of avoiding a (superfluous) state visit to DK after the negative reaction from DK. It took a day or two before the DK PM responded officially.

In the meantime the DK Foreign Minister, Jeppe Kofoed, repeated that the whole thing was absurd, using the word that apparently offended President trump so much.
He has also had a talk with his American counterpart, Pompeo, and described these talks as "constructive."
Damage control is taking place on a number of levels right now. Because even though DK is taking the brunt right now, this is very much noted among other of the US allies, not least in Europe. And may very well be perceived as an indirect affront to all the European allies, commentators have pointed out.

- Right now we are waiting to see if President Trump will use a less than polite description of PM Frederiksen, such as he is known to utter.

It is one thing for a foreign country to "overlook" an insult on a political level, it's an entirely different matter if it becomes personal. Even for a small country that is pretty dependent of USA.
  #157  
Old 08-21-2019, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I also quite agree with your thinking here Nico. Grandiose sell promotion in the vain of any publicity is good publicity.
It also puts him on the world stage and takes the focus away from some of his domestic problems for a little while.
A totally unpredicable world leader, and if some decent credible solid candidates don't come forward soon with proper backing then I can see world leaders having to put up with this guy for another four years after the 2020 election.
Surely he won't bother going to Poland now. Or will he!
You are right. This is how a spoilt bully acts - but just stealing attention all the time is dangerous for everyone else except the narcissist.

The insulting behaviour is permitted because of the status and aura of the 'leader of the free world'. However, there must come a breaking point. Insulting a small but totally honourable ally is simply the act of bully. The western world is based on the rule of law and on respect for constitutional conventions. Our world order is being eroded by its main defenders. Denmark's mainstream politicians and QMII are great role models.
  #158  
Old 08-21-2019, 07:18 PM
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It looks like Trump won’t let it go and today called the Danish PM “ nasty “. He seems to be enjoying the escalation of insults.

He also seems to be shifting the blame to the Danish PM for having publicly dismissed his Greenland purchase idea as “ absurd” beforehand , instead of simply saying “no” in private if and when the issue were raised. According to the US president, it was the Danish PM then who was disrespectful and undiplomatic.
  #159  
Old 08-21-2019, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Wait...so he waa...actually serious about buying Greenland?



This presidency is more entertaining than many current tv shows

Can Canada please suggest to buy Alaska from the US, i just want to see what happens...(maybe i should tweet this, that is the official protocol these days)

So does Denmark send him a bill now for the expenses they made for this cancelled visit?

Sorry for the snarky post, but it's a bit difficult to taje this all serious
Canada is also dealing with a very difficult American administration; buying
Alaska is not an option, see the attached NYTimes article on this very subject:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/o...sultPosition=1
  #160  
Old 08-22-2019, 07:51 AM
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As this state visit is no longer going ahead, and this is not a political forum, this thread will now be closed.
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