The Windsors and Europe


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
To me their lack of attendance has been turned into a massive thing (its now being discussed in about 3 different threads on here for example) when to me at the worst it was a mistake and not indicative of their usually good relationships with the other Royal Houses in Europe. I mean its amazing how suddenly as they didn't attend they must hate the Belgian Royal Family or have some agenda against them of sorts as some suggested. This year King Philippe and Queen Mathilde have meet so many members of the British Royal Family - the Queen, Prince Philip, William, Harry, Kate.
I think IMO that judging them on not attending a sudden event with only 7 days notice at a busy time of year is unfair.

Indeed. it's like some people were waiting for the first apparent flaw to bash the entire BRF. Imo the reactions have been quite violent, if not a bit over the top.
Seems a bit harsh but i think there was some case of "petit bourgois" syndrom from some members here, knowing royal behaviours and protocol better than the royals themselves and apparently eager to lern them one trick or two about good manners. That's funny and worrying at the same time...
The thing is : these royal circles are way above us and don't need our advises to know how to behave . If they act a certain way, it has to be this way. Period. Even if sometimes we don't get it at the first place....
 
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The British ambassador represented the GOVERNMENT of the UK at the funeral of Queen Fabiola, not the Windsors themselves. Most of the other European RF's and dynasties sent representatives of their families. That's what I-along with many others-find unacceptable. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the fact that they didn't even bother to send a wreath comes painfully close to a personal insult. Even Monaco managed at least that.

My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did.

And to everyone who believes that they(the British RF) have taken no notice of the uproar-I am willing to bet my house that they won't make the same gaffe when GD Jean of Luxembourg passes on.

Ever hear the expression don't throw the baby out with the water? That's what you're doing here.

Prior to now when have the BRF failed to attend the wedding or a funeral of a member of another reigning royal family (provided it was a public one)? I would understand this huge reaction to the lack of a British presence at Fabiola's funeral if this was a reoccurring issue for them, but to the best of my knowledge they pretty much always send someone to the weddings and funerals of their European counterparts, provided that it's a public event.

Heck, QEII herself attended Baudouin's funeral. Actually, given as QEII seems to have had so much respect for Baudouin that she broke her rule of not attending funerals for non-family members it seems logical to assume that the lack of a British presence at his wife's funeral wasn't simply British arrogance or isolationism but caused by something more - personally, my first thought was that there's some serious health problems happening within the BRF (which is a possibility given as the Queen is almost 90 and the DoE 93) which caused people to stay at home instead.

We don't know why the BRF failed to attend the funeral, but I don't believe for an instant it's simply arrogance on their part - personally, I kind of think some of the people attacking them are being a bit arrogant in presuming to know the reasoning behind this behaviour without actually looking at past behaviour. Once again, if the BRF had a history of missing weddings and funerals then we could say it's arrogance on their part, but they don't. This is unusual behaviour for them, which indicates something went wrong.
 
Ish,

I don't see how anything I posted could be construed as throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Unlike quite a few others here I have not posted that the BRF are arrogant, xenophobic and isolationist and always have been. THAT would be an excellent example of baby/bathwater.

My point is that they made a gaffe this time that borders on insult. Your recalling of the many occasions when they have done their duty and acted like a RF should only reinforces my point.
 
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This is not about children or adults, it is about royal families and monarchies. Of-course, if you invite a friend round to dinner and they never show up (or worse still, they show up and never repay the compliment - of which both situations I have had the misfortune to experience), then indeed the relationship changes and you most likely do stop putting out a hand.

However, the situation with royal families is a different matter altogether because the private and professional elements of their lives merge in a very different way from the rest of us. A royal funeral or royal wedding is not simply a family or friend event, it is a state, semi-state or national event of a country and in such circumstances, personal feelings etc are diluted with protocols, conventions, traditions and political/constitutional requirements.
It reminds me work colleagues - you sit next to them all day, chat and gossip around the photocopier, have lunch/coffee together and attend meetings with them and even go on team-building events etc etc. But very rarely would you go to their mother's funeral or invite them round for Sunday lunch.

Queen Margarethe gave an interview a year or two ago in which she was asked how she thought the Duchess of Cambridge was coping with the media. HM initial response was that she would never comment on a colleagues professionalism (or words to that effect).

When I invite a friend round to dinner, they either come or they don't and if they don't come, they don't send someone else instead. When you are royal and invite another royal from a foreign country to an event, royal convention allows someone else to go instead - either a lower ranking royal or an ambassador for instance and frankly, it is not for us to question that because it is as it has always been.

Believe me, it would be great if members of the BRF spent more time with other royals, Queen Elizabeth out shopping in Copenhagen with Queen Margarethe - I'd be happier than ever to see that!

Now, whether or not the British Royal Family seem too snobbish to attend foreign events is a matter of differing opinions and not a matter of general fact - indeed, members of the BRF may have no inkling at all that some people may think they are snobs, they may also have no idea that they are the most "famous" royal family in the world because once you are "known" through out the world, (which they will be aware of), how much or well-known you are becomes insignificant. WE see them as the most famous royals in the world, but ask for instance a Dane to name someone who is royal, they will no doubt say Queen Margarethe or CP Frederik!

It is not a case of the BRF wanting to be isolationist if it is an inherent trait in themselves to be isolationist. Being perceived as being isolationist does not make one a snob. Whether they are or not is neither here to there, because the closeness, the friendliness and the bonds they have with other royal families is as it always has been.

Thank young or your comment and being respectful in it. I see what you are saying and I agree with some of if; my man problem is I don't like how it seems the BRF and the people around them treat other royal houses. I admit things can go on in private that we don't know about but in public some things they do seem condescending.
 
Please note that all political posts regarding the role of former US Presidents have been deleted as off topic. The subject of this threads is the Windsors and Europe, not Presidents of the United States.

Any and all additional off topic posts will be deleted.

Let's stay on topic.
 
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Osipi
The British ambassador represented the GOVERNMENT of the UK at the funeral of Queen Fabiola, not the Windsors themselves. Most of the other European RF's and dynasties sent representatives of their families. That's what I-along with many others-find unacceptable. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the fact that they didn't even bother to send a wreath comes painfully close to a personal insult. Even Monaco managed at least that.

My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did.

And to everyone who believes that they(the British RF) have taken no notice of the uproar-I am willing to bet my house that they won't make the same gaffe when GD Jean of Luxembourg passes on.



The old GD was a head of state and not a Queen consort who wasn´t more than 20 years ago. I´m also convinced that someone would attend the GD´s funeral, but they also did so when Jean´s wife died. So that prooves nothing!
To your remark that the Windors assumed this was a minor event, why was there a representative at Prince Bernhard´s (in his royal rank below Fabiola - he was a Royal Highness, she a Majesty) funeral?!

The Ex-King and Queen of Greece attended both Juliana´s and her husband´s funeral, while they also didn´t this time.

Neither Edward nor William will be available for Carl Philip's wedding though.

The wedding is set for the 13th June I believe - the same day as Trooping the Colour.

As both Edward and William are colonels of Household Division Regiments they will be expected at the Trooping.




Besides that attending a wedding of someone who´s not one of his closest friends is not William´s "cup of tea", there´s always a charity-Polomatch in the afternoon after Trooping the colour! Even without his grandmother´s birthday parade, he´d never skip that for a royal wedding!:whistling:
 
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Ish,

I don't see how anything I posted could be construed as throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Unlike quite a few others here I have not posted that the BRF are arrogant, xenophobic and isolationist and always have been. THAT would be an excellent example of baby/bathwater.

My point is that they made a gaffe this time that borders on insult. Your recalling of the many occasions when they have done their duty and acted like a RF should only reinforces my point.

I apologize if I've misread your post here, and I do have to say that I think I was misremembering a few other posts that have been made here by others as being yours - for which I definitely apologize. You certainly haven't accursed them of being such things.

I would say that your statement of "My personal opinion is that the BRF sent no one because they assumed it would be a "minor" event for a woman who was consort so long ago. They probably never dreamed that it would draw the elite and impressive international representation that it did" is a tad baby/bathwater though, as there's no evidence to believe that they actually thought such a thing - and I personally don't buy that the Queen at least (nor her children, none of whom have ever struck me as being particularly isolationist) would take such an attitude. After all, the Queen's mother had a large funeral, with representatives from the 9 other European RFs (including 7 reigning monarchs, 6 consorts to reigning monarchs, 2 CPs, and 1 former monarch and his consort), as well as several representatives from non-reigning families, despite having been a consort to a king who had died some 50 years earlier. Not to mention the fact that this is a woman who still refers to Constantine II of Greece as "the King" despite his not having ruled for almost 40 years. QEII has a long memory, and doesn't usually underestimate something like this.

The fact that it's so unusual is what had me thinking that the Queen was sick at first - that there was a serious illness that had developed while the Cambridges were in the US or after, and so the BRF was wanting to keep everyone close at home just in case something happened. Since we've seen her out and about since then, and we've seen the DoE out and about as well, I'm no longer thinking that's the case, but the idea that there was a mixup within the family or with the Foreign Office also makes sense - someone slipped up and didn't realize that it was their job to make sure that the arrangements were made to ensure that someone got on a plane and went to a funeral. I don't think this was an intentional slighting; I don't buy for a moment that QEII intentionally failed to send any member of her family to this funeral unless either she or her husband were seriously ill and we just weren't being told about it. I do buy that someone made a mistake and the BRF isn't transparent enough in their workings to simply admit it.
 
The official comment was, I believe, that there was no one to send. As far as I can tell, the Duchess of Cornwall available to go.
 
I have read in Norwegian newspapers from 1991 that The Queen or the then 90 year old Queen Mother was close to attending the funeral of King Olav V, but they didn't because of the gulf war. That was confirmed by Buckingham Palace.
Prince Charles attended the funeral on behalf of The Queen.
 
[/quote ] I don't buy for a moment that QEII intentionally failed to send any member of her family to this funeral unless either she or her husband were seriously ill and we just weren't being told about it. I do buy that someone made a mistake and the BRF isn't transparent enough in their workings to simply admit it.[/ quote]

Ish,

This is something I agree with 100%...I think you nailed it in fact!:cool:
 
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I have read in Norwegian newspapers from 1991 that The Queen or the then 90 year old Queen Mother was close to attending the funeral of King Olav V, but they didn't because of the gulf war. That was confirmed by Buckingham Palace.
Prince Charles attended the funeral on behalf of The Queen.



I´m not sure wether this explanation is fabricated because the media do not know the reason themselves. I guess this lies in the nature of human-being: If you don´t know the reason for something, it has to be found something.

The british Queen also didn´t go to the funerals of the former dutch royal couple Juliana and Bernhard, and there was nothing such as a Gulf-war.
Juliana knew "Lilibeth" since her early childhood days, Bernhard fought in the british army during WW2. The relationship after the war between the 2 royal couples had been excellent.
 
I think imo that the Queen simply doesn't go to funerals, the only time she has is when the Belgian king B died suddenly at a relatively young age.
 
I can't recall the Queen attending any funerals or weddings of any other royal families for many years. Maybe she feels that there would be too much attention given her. If I remember correctly, on her mother's 100 birthday parade, etc., she stayed behind on a few event so that the Queen Mother would not be overshadowed [this of course was stated by media so don't know if that was made up or fact]. But I assume that she does know her media power and does feel that she would detract from occasion. Reason she sends another, if possible. Just a guess of mine
 
I´m not sure wether this explanation is fabricated because the media do not know the reason themselves. I guess this lies in the nature of human-being: If you don´t know the reason for something, it has to be found something.

The british Queen also didn´t go to the funerals of the former dutch royal couple Juliana and Bernhard, and there was nothing such as a Gulf-war.
Juliana knew "Lilibeth" since her early childhood days, Bernhard fought in the british army during WW2. The relationship after the war between the 2 royal couples had been excellent.

Whether this is the actual explanation or not, Olav did die a few weeks before the Gulf War ended.

Gulf War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I´m not sure wether this explanation is fabricated because the media do not know the reason themselves. I guess this lies in the nature of human-being: If you don´t know the reason for something, it has to be found something.

The british Queen also didn´t go to the funerals of the former dutch royal couple Juliana and Bernhard, and there was nothing such as a Gulf-war.
Juliana knew "Lilibeth" since her early childhood days, Bernhard fought in the british army during WW2. The relationship after the war between the 2 royal couples had been excellent.

The Duke of Edinburgh attended both Juliana's and Bernhard's funerais.
 
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I think it would be nice if the Queen started sending the younger royals to the continental royal events. That way, they can form a relationship with the other royals.
 
I think it would be nice if the Queen started sending the younger royals to the continental royal events. That way, they can form a relationship with the other royals.

But, why would this be important? It would make no difference to the lives of the British people either way. Royals don't decide foreign policy or international trade policy anymore so the degree of closeness between the British RF and those of Continental Europe really doesn't matter.

With the greatest respect to Haakon or Victoria or Frederik, the public international profiles of William/Kate/Harry are on a different level (for better and worse). There's not much they need to learn about living life in the spotlight having already lived it for all their lives, or in Kate's example for at least a decade. For William and Harry in particular, their lives have been far more public than any a European royal has had to endure (thankfully). When it comes to learning about how to fulfil their royal functions, there are plenty of examples for them within their own families. The challenge of performing that function for 16 different sovereign nations is not one shared by any other RF.

I get that people like to see royals together wearing designer clothes, tiaras and orders. Ultimately, for me, it really doesn't matter. I support my RF in the function that they perform, the degree of their relationship with other RFs is superfluous to that function IMO.
 
But, why would this be important? It would make no difference to the lives of the British people either way. Royals don't decide foreign policy or international trade policy anymore so the degree of closeness between the British RF and those of Continental Europe really doesn't matter.

With the greatest respect to Haakon or Victoria or Frederik, the public international profiles of William/Kate/Harry are on a different level (for better and worse). There's not much they need to learn about living life in the spotlight having already lived it for all their lives, or in Kate's example for at least a decade. For William and Harry in particular, their lives have been far more public than any a European royal has had to endure (thankfully). When it comes to learning about how to fulfil their royal functions, there are plenty of examples for them within their own families. The challenge of performing that function for 16 different sovereign nations is not one shared by any other RF.

I get that people like to see royals together wearing designer clothes, tiaras and orders. Ultimately, for me, it really doesn't matter. I support my RF in the function that they perform, the degree of their relationship with other RFs is superfluous to that function IMO.

It just would be nice for the younger British royals to at least become familiar with the other European royals. Edward & Sophie know them well but it's William & Catherine that will be the future King & Queen. They should be included in the royal events.
 
I think imo that the Queen simply doesn't go to funerals, the only time she has is when the Belgian king B died suddenly at a relatively young age.

The only reason was that the Belgian King did in the middle of Queen Elizabeth's traditional two-month (!) vacation at Balmoral Castle. The Court Circular was practically empty. All other royal heads of state travelled to Brussels to attend the funeral. Queen Elizabeth had no any excuse not to attend the funeral, seeing her totally empty agenda. So she culd at least scrape some politesse together and interrupt her long Scottish holiday for a couple of hours.

:flowers:
 
It just would be nice for the younger British royals to at least become familiar with the other European royals. Edward & Sophie know them well but it's William & Catherine that will be the future King & Queen. They should be included in the royal events.

I think we'll see more of that when William is heir to the throne. Like Charles and Camilla do now, they will go as representatives of the King when it is needed.
 
I think we'll see more of that when William is heir to the throne. Like Charles and Camilla do now, they will go as representatives of the King when it is needed.

Charles & Camilla really don't do of foreign royal events. They attended the Dutch Inauguration but that's about it. I'm just saying, instead of always sending Edward & Sophie, the second in-line and his wife could be sent.
 
Charles & Camilla really don't do of foreign royal events. They attended the Dutch Inauguration but that's about it. I'm just saying, instead of always sending Edward & Sophie, the second in-line and his wife could be sent.

The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall have actually visited all European monarchies except Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Monaco...

Charles and Camilla in Copenhagen

Charles and Camilla in Oslo

Charles and Camilla in Stockholm

Charles and Camilla in Madrid

Charles and Camilla in the Vatican

Charles and Camilla in Amsterdam

:flowers:
 
The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall have actually visited all European monarchies except Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Monaco...

Charles and Camilla in Copenhagen

Charles and Camilla in Oslo

Charles and Camilla in Stockholm

Charles and Camilla in Madrid

Charles and Camilla in the Vatican

Charles and Camilla in Amsterdam

:flowers:

They have visited but they haven't attended any of the royal events other than the Dutch Inauguration.

Maybe I'm alone in wondering why The Queen don't send her own heir and his wife to the foreign royal events. If not them, she could send the second in-line to the throne and his wife.
 
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Charles & Camilla really don't do of foreign royal events. They attended the Dutch Inauguration but that's about it. I'm just saying, instead of always sending Edward & Sophie, the second in-line and his wife could be sent.

Not exactly. The Prince of Wales has represented the British Crown at many foreign royal events. He just seems to attend only the more high profile ones. When they became next in line to the throne, I’m sure The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge will have their fair share of foreign royal events. There’s no need to rush with things.

According to Royal Musings, The Prince of Wales has represented the British Royal Family at the following events:

• The wedding of King Constantine II of the Hellenes with Princess Anne-Marie of Denmark (with his father) (1964).
• Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands’ Installation (1980).
• Prince Franz Josef II of Liechtenstein’s funeral (1989).
• King Olav V of Norway’s funeral (1991).
• The Count of Barcelona’s funeral (1993).
• The wedding of The Duchess of Lugo with Don Jaime de Marichalar (1995).
• Queen Ingrid of Denmark’s funeral (2000).
• The Countess of Barcelona’s funeral (2000).
• The wedding of The Crown Prince of Norway with Mette-Marit Hoiby (2001).
• The wedding of The Prince of Orange with Máxima Zorreguieta (2002).
• Prince Claus of the Netherlands’ funeral (2002).
• The wedding of The Prince of Asturias with Letizia Ortiz Rocasolano (2004).
• Pope Saint John Paul II's funeral (2005).
• King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands’ Installation (with The Duchess of Cornwall) (2013).
 
Yes, but he's only been to one event since he got married again.

I'm just saying the the younger royals could go to these foreign events other than just Edward & Sophie or the Gloucester's and Kent's. It's not about rushing anything but it's about at least sending royals that's actually closer to the throne.
 
Yes, but he's only been to one event since he got married again.

I'm just saying the the younger royals could go to these foreign events other than just Edward & Sophie or the Gloucester's and Kent's. It's not about rushing anything but it's about at least sending royals that's actually closer to the throne.

Looking at Charles, he's not exactly sitting back painting the sunset most days and is available to fit these occasions into his schedule. This is a man that takes walks to relax. Most things on his schedule are planned months in advance and outside of that, he's got a lot of other things on his plate such as board meetings and whatnot. William is starting to step up more and more for the Queen along with his own charities and patronages on top of preparing to work for air ambulance along with having a toddler and expecting a new arrival in April. These are very busy men.

It has worked for the British royal family that Edward and Sophie and the cousins of the Queen take on these roles as representatives of the Queen at royal functions such as weddings. I think the closeness to the throne really would only matter in the case of state events such as the Pope's funeral. Weddings and funerals are more of a familial representation rather than state.
 
Charles & Camilla really don't do of foreign royal events. They attended the Dutch Inauguration but that's about it. I'm just saying, instead of always sending Edward & Sophie, the second in-line and his wife could be sent.

Charles went to Prince Claus' funeral and, in the jubilee year, he visited Sweden, Denmark and Norway representing the Queen.
 
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The only reason was that the Belgian King did in the middle of Queen Elizabeth's traditional two-month (!) vacation at Balmoral Castle. The Court Circular was practically empty. All other royal heads of state travelled to Brussels to attend the funeral. Queen Elizabeth had no any excuse not to attend the funeral, seeing her totally empty agenda. So she culd at least scrape some politesse together and interrupt her long Scottish holiday for a couple of hours.

:flowers:


How often do you want to repeat that pure speculation that the Queen had no "excuse" not to attend?!
She DOES NOT NEED an excuse not to attend anything she doesn´t want to! Do you really think she would care about people being upset about her being somewhere or not? The Queen will never know these things because she reads newspapers, watches television and that´s that. She´s not dwelling in some funny royal watchers social media to learn what people think of her. Just wake up!
 
I'm just saying the the younger royals could go to these foreign events other than just Edward & Sophie or the Gloucester's and Kent's.

I agree; it's almost as if the Queen says, oh, just send Edward and Sophie again, everyone else has more important things to do!

At least that's the impression I get. At least send Harry occasionally, or the Cambridges. It will look better!
 
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