Earl and Countess of Wessex and Family Current Events 4: August 2008-October 2009

[Kezza]

Claire, I asked my mum on this and she says if a dog eats a bird it kills it can make them very sick. The feathers will make them throw up, but will make them really ill is if the bird was carrying anything in it, such as worms and disease.

I know in the past some of our dogs have eaten pigeons that they have killed without our knowledge, and have thrown up. I dont know what a larger bird would do?

I also think you maybe right in that those may not of been his dogs, because he has been shooting Pheasants for years, and i am starting to have my doubts that he would do that with untrained dogs.

I think the guy is in a no win situation and sadly there are a few who have jumped on him without really knowing what went on.

 

[Skydragon]

Claire, I asked my mum on this and she says if a dog eats a bird it kills it can make them very sick. The feathers will make them throw up, but will make them really ill is if the bird was carrying anything in it, such as worms and disease.

I ask again, what do you think wild dogs eat and why have none of my dogs ever been sick after consuming a kill?

I know in the past some of our dogs have eaten pigeons that they have killed without our knowledge, and have thrown up.

Then if it was without your knowledge, how do you know it was the pigeon that caused them to vomit, which is unlikely unless they were over faced! We worm our dogs every 3 months, is this not done with show dogs? I can't think what else they might 'catch' from eating their natural prey.

I also think you maybe right in that those may not of been his dogs,

Claire admitted she had absolutely no proof of this and that she had made a reflex response, which she came up with.

I think the guy is in a no win situation and sadly there are a few who have jumped on him without really knowing what went on.

And some who would defend him without reading the articles, looking at the available pictures or just because.

Whether he contacted the dogs, the pictures IMO clearly show him at the very least taking a swipe at them, the fact that he is a rotten shot and they are good at evading blows does not make it a lesser offence, then again I am astounded at the amount of posters who admit to beating their dogs, so see nothing wrong with it.

 

[Duchess]

cesar milan is a renowned dog trainer. his philosophy is that dogs are pack animals and in order to have control over your dog you must establish yourself as the "leader of your pack". he does this by bringing the dog to what he calls a state of calm submission which he acheives in various ways but some examples are.... you must ignore the excited state that some dogs get into..say when you walk in the door after having been away, also never allowing the dog to enter or exit a building, etc before you, and never letting the animal walk ahead of you but beside you or slightly behind you. if you notice wild dogs or wolves, the alpha is always in charge and you must make yourself the alpha. obviously edward believes in either beating or scaring his dogs into submission which is sad. a radio show i listened to today was talking about how this should be handled by the RSPCA....it should be investigated and handled in the same way it would be handled if it was anyone else. he shouldn't be made an example of...he should have to answer to the same rules and laws of animal mistreatment that anyone else does.

 

[Kezza]

Now I dont have to answer that. But you know when a dog tends to throw up a whole bird with feathers intact on it and nothing else then chances are it is the bird that has made them sick. But then I think someone is being delibrately obtuse on this board.

I think Edward is being picked on unfairly.

Does he just let those dogs fight and tear each other to pieces?

Does he let those dogs just eat that bird and allow them to become very sick because of it?

 

[Avicenna]

I ask again, what do you think wild dogs eat...

Well, I am suprised that you believe he is a rotten shot and that the dogs are simply good at evading ... frankly, I cannot see this in the pictures. Nor do I know whether he inteded to hit or missed the dogs. You see, I cannot read thoughts and I wasn't there. All I have are pictures which show Edward with a stick. Nothing more, nothing less. And if in doubt I rather think the best of a person - not the worst.

Shame on all those people who use this incident for Edward-bashing without knowing the truth

 

[magnik]

Sorry, but doesn't they (paparazzi) catch it on video?
But in the other hand how we could be sure that this video would be real?

 

[Skydragon]

Shame on all those people who use this incident for Edward-bashing without knowing the truth

And shame on those that will make any excuse!

Now I dont have to answer that. But you know when a dog tends to throw up a whole bird with feathers intact on it and nothing else then chances are it is the bird that has made them sick. But then I think someone is being delibrately obtuse on this board.

As I didn't have to reply to your 'I don't think you have ever separated fighting dogs or the 'you don't know what you are talking about'. Wild dogs, as you do not seem to know eat carrian or anything else they can get their noses into. Do they die from unknown diseases, no, have any of my dogs died from eating deer carcases, carrion, birds, again no and I have been owned by quite a few of the bounders!

Unless you are being deliberately insulting, I will presume you do not know the meaning of obtuse - lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive , stupid b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression.

I believe I have been very clear in my feelings on this matter and why. On the other hand you do not appear to know what dogs will and will not eat without causing themselves major problems!

Does he just let those dogs fight and tear each other to pieces?

They were not fighting with one another, so the liklihood of them tearing one another to pieces, seems to be remote.

Does he let those dogs just eat that bird and allow them to become very sick because of it?

Sick with what, any disease would have been passed to the dog, if it was going to be when the dogs pick the carcase up. We have already been through the 'very sick' because they pulled at it or do you really think they have cans and can openers in the wild?

 

[Skydragon]

cesar milan is a renowned dog trainer...

Thank you Duchess, all I know is that the chap is very, very good and does not believe in threatening or hitting a dog and I believe he has a great many.

 

[kimebear]

Do they die from unknown diseases, no, have any of my dogs died from eating deer carcases, carrion, birds, again no and I have been owned by quite a few of the bounders!

Actually our family beagle died (very painfully I might add) after being found eating deer entrails. While I am grateful that you have never experienced this, it is incorrect to assume that it does not happen at all.

 

[Kezza]

And shame on those that will make any excuse!...

Well I guess we have different opinions on the matter, but I know from plenty of people and given what I have seen. That if a dog or a cat eats something it catches they usually bring it back up. I own enough dogs and cats and have seen it happen enough times to know. Please dont insult my intelligence on the matter.

Plus you add the worms and stuff other animals can carry. I have heard of people developing a slow growing cyst caused by the worms being carried by something a dog has killed and eaten getting the worms and then passing the worms onto the human which then over time causes cysts. Those cysts can be fatal to a human if they rupture somewhat and the chances of that happening are high because most of the time people dont know they have been infected by worms which come from their dogs.

But then I think you are being difficult because deep down you know Edward has done nothing wrong, but you wont admit it because judging from some of your posts in the past you dont like the man.

Not everyone is a perfect dog owner or trainer like youself, and please dont pontificate how my family or how he handles his dogs. Everyone has different methods.

I have been very clear on the matter myself, the point is Edward has done nothing wrong, and it is a case of beat up the Royal, because he is a member of the Royal Family.

I think thats all i'm going to say.

 

[Mermaid1962]

As far as the RSPCA investigation goes...

If they do find evidence of animal cruelty, Prince Edward should be treated like anyone else who misuses an animal. But if there's no evidence, that information should be made available as well.

 

[Kezza]

Well if they do then he should just pay the fine.

Playing devils advocate here. What if Prince Edward was walking his dogs through a park and his dog's discover some meat in the park. He does not want them to eat that meat, because the meat could be baited by someone who doesn't like dogs. In order to discourage his dogs from eating it he is then forced to give them a tap on the head with the walking lead or a stick. He also just happens to be photographed right at that very moment he gives them a tap, it then makes the headlines and he is branded a dog beater by the press. Despite the fact further tests conducted on the meat does indeed show he was justified in stopping his dogs from eating it, because the test on the meat shows someone had put anti-freeze on the piece of meat.

Would he be guilty of Animal cruelty then towards his dogs.

I know a lot of dog owners and including my family who dont allow their dogs if they can help it from eating stuff if they know potentially if it is not safe for them to do so. I know a lot of people stop their dogs from eating what they catch if they know about it at the time.

 

[AuroraB]

Well if they do then he should just pay the fine.

Playing devils advocate here. What if Prince Edward was walking his dogs through a park and his dog's discover some meat in the park. He does not want them to eat that meat, because the meat could be baited by someone who doesn't like dogs. In order to discourage his dogs from eating it he is then forced to give them a tap on the head with the walking lead or a stick.

If they were well trained dogs, Edward would only need 2 words "leave it".

 

[Kezza]

Yes he could just say leave it I have said that to my dogs and tapped them on the head at the sametime. But the thing is it can be a bit hard to make them do so when food is involved, more so if it is raw meat.

 

[wbenson]

Would he be guilty of Animal cruelty then towards his dogs.

If the "tap" came from him holding a stick well over his head and bringing it down with apparent force, yeah, I hope so.

 

[Carminha Stalker]

I can´t find a reason where a human being would beat or tap or hurt a dog. If the person in not able to be a "leader" when handling hunting dogs, then he shouldn´t even think of going hunting. If Edward has erred, he should be treated the same way as anybody else would. I lived many years in England and one of the many things I admired there was the way people treated their animals and how protective they were of them.

 

[englande]

http://http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/77758/Prince-Edward-rides-out-dog-cruelty-claim

It's an article about prince Edward ridding with her sister,and he don't seem worry about the polemic of the dogs...

 

[Avicenna]

IMHO the RF is decent bunch - apart of this Peter Philips of course who sold out his relatives to finance his marriage . No reason to hide anything.

And frankly I still cannot see anything apart of a stick waving in the air in all these pictures.

Don't you think there would be some kind of proof had he really hit the dog? Don't you think a vet would have been involved had one of the dogs been hurt? Since I have seen neither a photo-proof nor any other hard evidence I still prefer to be in doubt for Edward.

 

[chaimae]

Prince 'struck dog' claim inquiry

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Norfolk | Prince 'struck dog' claim inquiry


Do any of the pictures actually show him hitting the dog?? If so I can''t see it, perhaps one dog was being violent to the other and he was warning it.

I am a complete animal lover and cruelty is a big no-no in my eyes but is he really beating the dog or just warning it?

 

[Warren]

The extended and seemingly never-ending personal bickering had passed its "enough already!" stage and has been removed.

Warren
British Forums moderator

 

[Skydragon]

Don't you think a vet would have been involved had one of the dogs been hurt?

Do you know one wasn't involved or do you think everyone connected to the RF will sell their story, not that I believe Peter Philips did anything wrong.

 

[Avicenna]

Do you know one wasn't involved or do you think everyone connected to the RF will sell their story, not that I believe Peter Philips did anything wrong.

Well, I did not read a single article mentioning a vet being involved. And if you look at the pictures galleries you will find the two dogs running around and looking pretty fine.

And Peter Philips ... well, if selling your family to a magazine for profit only is not wrong, then I do not know what else is wrong! One should live the life one can afford. But selling your relatives and friends is a failure of character IMHO.

 

[Avicenna]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/77758/Prince-Edward-rides-out-dog-cruelty-claim

It's an article about prince Edward ridding with her sister,and he don't seem worry about the polemic of the dogs...

Good for him

 

[Skydragon]

And if you look at the pictures galleries you will find the two dogs running around and looking pretty fine.

Were these pics taken before or after the incident?

But selling your relatives and friends is a failure of character IMHO.

His family knew about the deal, that much is clear, otherwise they would have sent a polite refusal.

http://http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/77758/Prince-Edward-rides-out-dog-cruelty-claim

It's an article about prince Edward riding with her sister,and he don't seem worry about the polemic of the dogs...

Thank you englande, the link didn't work for me until I removed a http://.

PRINCE Edward went riding with his sister Princess Anne yesterday and left Sandringham estate workers to sort out the mess created by his involvement in animal cruelty allegations.

 

[Duchess]

if an investigation finds that edward did strike the dog, or even if it doesn't, i believe that rather than paying a fine he should have to take instruction on how to handle his dogs. a fine would be an easy out for him. i believe that in most, not all but most cases, people strike their animals because they don't know of a better way. learning how to "get them what you want them to do" will spare you and the animal a lot of frustration, anger and potential injury.

 

[Kezza]

Rex Features - Photographic press agency and picture library

More pics that the press did not use.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well, I did not read a single article mentioning a vet being involved. And if you look at the pictures galleries you will find the two dogs running around and looking pretty fine.

And Peter Philips ... well, if selling your family to a magazine for profit only is not wrong, then I do not know what else is wrong! One should live the life one can afford. But selling your relatives and friends is a failure of character IMHO.

Couldn't agree more.

The pictures I have seen of the dogs running around and looking pretty fine include Edward carrying a dead bird.

Surely if the photographer had images of the dogs not being fine after the incident then they would have published them.

The fact that the photos come at the end of the sequence tells me that the photographer wanted to show exactly that - that the dogs weren't hurt.

Personally I agree with your assessment of Peter Philips as well. His actions were the sign of someone wishing to make money out of his family which tells me that he has a somewhat inflated opinion of himself but also a lack of respect for his family and their position.

Whether the rest of the family knew or didn't is immaterial to me. It was his idea and therefore he was the one who prostituted his family. If they agreed then they also agreed to him being their pimp. The Royal Family most be above this sort of selling of themselves.

 

[Skydragon]

if an investigation finds that edward did strike the dog, or even if it doesn't, i believe that rather than paying a fine he should have to take instruction on how to handle his dogs. a fine would be an easy out for him. i believe that in most, not all but most cases, people strike their animals because they don't know of a better way. learning how to "get them what you want them to do" will spare you and the animal a lot of frustration, anger and potential injury.

Again I agree, if there is any problem with an animal, it is normally the owner/handler who is the root cause. Unfortunately as I have already said, the investigation will be futile. None of the Beaters, Gamekeepers or other Estate staff would chance putting their jobs and accommodation at risk, IMO, to say anything other than we saw nothing.

The trouble with Black Labs is that except to their owners (and sometimes not even then), they all look the same, so it is no good looking at pictures of labs running about and saying 'oh look they were fine'. Nor is it any good relying on the sequence in which you are shown them, as seen in the recent BBC debacle.

Whether he contacted with the dogs or not, whether he seriously injured the dogs or not, the fact is the photos show clearly that he went after the dog(s) and raised a walking stick well above his head with the probably intention of teaching it a 'lesson'.

UK law does not allow for the 'beating' of a dog, nor as is being suggested by some, to 'protect' the dog.

Under the animal Welfare Act 2006, it says nothing about anyone being allowed to show violence to any animal, the wording is given in chapter 4.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/pdf/ukpga_20060045_en.pdf

 

[Kezza]

Pet News Examiner: Prince Edward accused of beating dogs, animal cruelty

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA) will be examinig the photographs (below) to determine if Prince Edward violated the Animal Welfare Act and inflicted harm unnecessarily. (It is not illegal in England to hit a dog to save it from some danger.)

Well looking at the sequence of pics in this article suggests to me the dog he was chasing away was displaying behaviour that may of lead to a fight, if Edward had not stepped in. So if a fight was to of happened then both dogs were potentially in danger of suffering injuries that may of been caused if a fight would of happened.

I think the one he is chasing away needs more training, because he is potentially stopping the other dog from giving his owner the bird he retrieved for him. By trying to take the bird off the rival dog and nearly getting into a fight over it.

 

[kimebear]

What part of "enough already" did everyone not understand? Moving on!