Tatiana Maria
Majesty
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2013
- Messages
- 6,737
- City
- St Petersburg
- Country
- United States
Princess Eugenie did. Her husband Jack Brooksbank is apparently in line to the Brooksbank baronetcy.
The British Nobility thread 2: Sep 2022 -
- Thread starter Marengo
- Start date
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Princess Eugenie did. Her husband Jack Brooksbank is apparently in line to the Brooksbank baronetcy.
I don't think he is the direct heir.
JR76
Heir Apparent
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2012
- Messages
- 4,781
- City
- Malmö
- Country
- Sweden
No he's not. The heir is a cousin of his.
Last edited:
SirGyamfi1
Heir Presumptive
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
- Messages
- 2,331
- City
- London
- Country
- United Kingdom
True to an extent, but what I really meant was who would marry a member of the peerage (titled nobility), baronets don’t really count, they are more like landed gentry and Jack isn’t the first line heir.
SirGyamfi1
Heir Presumptive
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
- Messages
- 2,331
- City
- London
- Country
- United Kingdom
None of the Percy girls married into the nobility, they all married nouveau riche men and I was referring to a member of the BRF marrying into the nobility.
Anti-Monarchist2
Newbie
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2022
- Messages
- 1
- City
- Somewheresville
- Country
- United States
Not much better I don't think. Look at how they treated Diana (a noble) and Sarah (gentry). If Elizabeth Bowes Lyon had married-in nowadays, I'm sure they would've called her fat.
Hello everyone by the way. Glad to be here.
Last edited:
Hello AntiMonarchist2, and welcome. Actually Elizabeth the QM wasn’t plump until her thirties. As a young newly wed she was petite and quite slender. And modern media seems to need rivalries among its younger females. If there isn’t one they make one up, a la Diana and Sarah. Bertie Duke of York was the first son to marry for quite some time, so Elizabeth didn’t have any rivals.
Noble Consort Ming
Nobility
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2011
- Messages
- 445
- City
- Detroit
- Country
- United States
I think she was compared to her brother in law's more glamorous mistresses but not in the press. She disliked them and I don't think it was simply because they were carrying on with the future Edward VIII. Even as a young woman she was dowdy in comparison to those ladies, IMHO.
Well, Elizabeth married in 1923. Edward was certainly carrying on with married ladies at that time like Freda Dudley Ward, but I don’t know that Mrs Dudley Ward was so regularly photographed hanging on the POW’s arm in public that the Press or the British public would have had huge opportunities to make fashion comparisons.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
- Messages
- 77,334
- Country
- Germany
The Marchioness of Bath participated in the Josh Birch Jones SS24 fashion show on September 15,
** Pic **
attended the David Koma show on September 16,
** Pic **
attended a private view of "The Morgan Stanley Exhibition - "The Missing Thread: Untold Stories of Black British Fashion" at Somerset House and the Burberry show and after party on September 18:
** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **
** Pic **
attended the David Koma show on September 16,
** Pic **
attended a private view of "The Morgan Stanley Exhibition - "The Missing Thread: Untold Stories of Black British Fashion" at Somerset House and the Burberry show and after party on September 18:
** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **
Tatiana Maria
Majesty
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2013
- Messages
- 6,737
- City
- St Petersburg
- Country
- United States
I'm almost surprised to see a same-sex engagement in the ultratraditionalist British peerage, but as William John Fitzalan-Howard is not part of the main ducal line (he seems to be a second cousin to the current heir to the dukedom of Norfolk) he is probably under less pressure.
SirGyamfi1
Heir Presumptive
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
- Messages
- 2,331
- City
- London
- Country
- United Kingdom
Anything is possible. I mean don’t forget, Lord Ivor Mountbatten.
I checked that this engagement was not mentioned here:
The engagement was announced between Arthur Gerald Wellesley, styled Earl of Mornington (b.31 January 1978) [eldest son and heir of Charles Wellesley, the 9th Duke of Wellington, OBE, DL (b.1945), of Stratfield Saye, Hampshire, and Apsley House London, & his wife Princess Antonia Elizabeth Brigid Luise von Preussen (b.1955)] & Hayley Elizabeth Whitehead (b. February 1986) on 8 April.
Arthur does not use the courtesy title Marquess of Douro, and retains the style Earl of Mornington that was his from his birth. He married firstly in Barbados on 4 June 2005, Jemma Madeleine Kidd (b. 20 September 1974) [elder daughter of John Edward Aitken Kidd (b.1944) & his wife Wendy Madeleine, nee Hodge (b.1941) {herself daughter of Sir John Rowland Hodge, 2nd Baronet (1913-1995)}].
The Earl of Mornington and his first wife have issue:
Arthur Darcy Wellesley, a future Duke of Wellington (born 4 January 2010)
Lady Mae Madeleine Wellesley (twin with her brother)
Lord Alfred Wellesley (born December 2014)
Source: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2023/04/duke-of-wellingtons-heir-to-wed-for.html
The engagement was announced between Arthur Gerald Wellesley, styled Earl of Mornington (b.31 January 1978) [eldest son and heir of Charles Wellesley, the 9th Duke of Wellington, OBE, DL (b.1945), of Stratfield Saye, Hampshire, and Apsley House London, & his wife Princess Antonia Elizabeth Brigid Luise von Preussen (b.1955)] & Hayley Elizabeth Whitehead (b. February 1986) on 8 April.
Arthur does not use the courtesy title Marquess of Douro, and retains the style Earl of Mornington that was his from his birth. He married firstly in Barbados on 4 June 2005, Jemma Madeleine Kidd (b. 20 September 1974) [elder daughter of John Edward Aitken Kidd (b.1944) & his wife Wendy Madeleine, nee Hodge (b.1941) {herself daughter of Sir John Rowland Hodge, 2nd Baronet (1913-1995)}].
The Earl of Mornington and his first wife have issue:
Arthur Darcy Wellesley, a future Duke of Wellington (born 4 January 2010)
Lady Mae Madeleine Wellesley (twin with her brother)
Lord Alfred Wellesley (born December 2014)
Source: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2023/04/duke-of-wellingtons-heir-to-wed-for.html
This happy news belongs also here:
HRH The Duchess of Noto (nee Lady Charlotte Diana Lindesay-Behtune, born 12 May, 1993), wife of His Royal Highness Prince Jaime of Bourbon Two Sicilies, Duke of Noto [born at Madrid, 26 June, 1992], gave birth to a daughter, HRH Princess Francesca Sofia of Bourbon Two Sicilies, in London, 13 October, 2023.
The Duke of Noto is the eldest son of HRH Prince Pedro Juan Maria Alejo Saturnino y todos los Santos, Duke of Calabria (born Madrid, 16 October, 1968), by his wife HRH The Duchess of Calabria [nee Sofia Landaluce y Melgarejo, born Madrid, 23 Nov, 1973].
The Duchess of Noto is a scion of the Earls of Lindsay, the third and youngest daughter of James Randolph Lindesay-Bethune, 16th Earl of Lindsay [born 19 November, 1955], by his wife the former Diana Mary Chamberlayne-Macdonald [born 12 September, 1961], scion of that landed gentry family.
(* from Wikipedia: Prince Pedro is currently one of two claimants to the headship of the House of the Two Sicilies, since the death of his father on 5 October 2015. The other claimant is Prince Carlo, Duke of Castro. Pedro is claimant to the Sovereignty of the Constantinian Order, Grand Master of the Order of Saint Januarius, President of the Council of the four Spanish Military Orders of Santiago, Calatrava, Alcántara and Montesa, and Grand Commander of the Military Order of Alcántara.He also bears the official dignity of Grandee of Spain as the son of an Infante of Spain.
The death of his grandmother in 2017 additionally made him the heir general of the Kings of Navarre (co-sovereign of Andorra), Castile, and Aragon, of Edward the Confessor and David I of Scotland, and genealogical representative of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, Louis XIII of France, Louis XVI of France and Charles X of France from whom he descends directly through the latter’s grand-daughter Louise Marie Thérèse of Artois. He graduated with honours in Agricultural Engineering from the University of Castilla-La Mancha and completed his military service in the Spanish Royal Guard.
Professionally, he has worked as a structural engineer, and manages the family estate, La Toledana, in Ciudad Real, Spain as well as other landed estates in Spain.)
Source: Peerage News.
HRH The Duchess of Noto (nee Lady Charlotte Diana Lindesay-Behtune, born 12 May, 1993), wife of His Royal Highness Prince Jaime of Bourbon Two Sicilies, Duke of Noto [born at Madrid, 26 June, 1992], gave birth to a daughter, HRH Princess Francesca Sofia of Bourbon Two Sicilies, in London, 13 October, 2023.
The Duke of Noto is the eldest son of HRH Prince Pedro Juan Maria Alejo Saturnino y todos los Santos, Duke of Calabria (born Madrid, 16 October, 1968), by his wife HRH The Duchess of Calabria [nee Sofia Landaluce y Melgarejo, born Madrid, 23 Nov, 1973].
The Duchess of Noto is a scion of the Earls of Lindsay, the third and youngest daughter of James Randolph Lindesay-Bethune, 16th Earl of Lindsay [born 19 November, 1955], by his wife the former Diana Mary Chamberlayne-Macdonald [born 12 September, 1961], scion of that landed gentry family.
(* from Wikipedia: Prince Pedro is currently one of two claimants to the headship of the House of the Two Sicilies, since the death of his father on 5 October 2015. The other claimant is Prince Carlo, Duke of Castro. Pedro is claimant to the Sovereignty of the Constantinian Order, Grand Master of the Order of Saint Januarius, President of the Council of the four Spanish Military Orders of Santiago, Calatrava, Alcántara and Montesa, and Grand Commander of the Military Order of Alcántara.He also bears the official dignity of Grandee of Spain as the son of an Infante of Spain.
The death of his grandmother in 2017 additionally made him the heir general of the Kings of Navarre (co-sovereign of Andorra), Castile, and Aragon, of Edward the Confessor and David I of Scotland, and genealogical representative of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, Louis XIII of France, Louis XVI of France and Charles X of France from whom he descends directly through the latter’s grand-daughter Louise Marie Thérèse of Artois. He graduated with honours in Agricultural Engineering from the University of Castilla-La Mancha and completed his military service in the Spanish Royal Guard.
Professionally, he has worked as a structural engineer, and manages the family estate, La Toledana, in Ciudad Real, Spain as well as other landed estates in Spain.)
Source: Peerage News.
And another engagement in the Norfolk family:
The engagement was announced 28 October, 2023, between Donald McAndrew Hamilton McFarlan (born 30 September, 1993), only son of the late Donald Richmond McQueen McFarlan (1952-2012), and his wife Mrs Kate Patricia McFarlan (born 1957, nee Hamilton), of Charlton, Sussex, and the Lady Isabel Serena Mary Fitzalan Howard (born 7 February, 1994), second and youngest daughter of the 18th Duke of Norfolk, GCVO, DL (born 2 December, 1956), of Arundel Castle, Sussex, and of his 1st wife Georgina Susan, Duchess of Norfolk (born 30 January, 1962, nee Gore).
The Duke of Norfolk is the Earl Marshal and Premier Duke in the Peerage of England.
Donald McFarlan is descended maternally from the Irish landed family of Hamilton, of Leix
Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2023/10/mcfarlanfitzalan-howard-engagement.html
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/norfolk.html
The engagement was announced 28 October, 2023, between Donald McAndrew Hamilton McFarlan (born 30 September, 1993), only son of the late Donald Richmond McQueen McFarlan (1952-2012), and his wife Mrs Kate Patricia McFarlan (born 1957, nee Hamilton), of Charlton, Sussex, and the Lady Isabel Serena Mary Fitzalan Howard (born 7 February, 1994), second and youngest daughter of the 18th Duke of Norfolk, GCVO, DL (born 2 December, 1956), of Arundel Castle, Sussex, and of his 1st wife Georgina Susan, Duchess of Norfolk (born 30 January, 1962, nee Gore).
The Duke of Norfolk is the Earl Marshal and Premier Duke in the Peerage of England.
Donald McFarlan is descended maternally from the Irish landed family of Hamilton, of Leix
Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2023/10/mcfarlanfitzalan-howard-engagement.html
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/norfolk.html
The engagement was announced 1 November, 2023, between the Hon James Antony Lindsay (born 10 November, 1992), second son of the 30th Earl of Crawford & Balcarres (born 24 November, 1958), of Balcarres, Fife, and the Countess of Crawford & Balcarres (nee Nicola Ann Bicket, born 1960), & Clara Rose C.R. Strunck (born 9 April, 1993), youngest daughter of Ronald A.A.M. Strunck (born Nov, 1943), of London, and his wife the former Camilla Mary Elizabeth Romsey Dobson (born Feb, 1958).
The bride-to-be is a granddaughter maternally of Sir Denis Dobson, KCB, OBE, QC (1908-1995). She is a freelance writer and journalist. She has experience writing news, features and interviews for magazines and national newspapers, including The Sunday Times Style, Tatler, ES Magazine, The Evening Standard, Glamour, Harper’s Bazaar, The Telegraph and Vogue Scandinavia, among others. She has also worked on refreshing brand editorial for companies such as Cartier and Bicester Village.
Source: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...a-strunck.html
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...a/lindsay.html
The bride-to-be is a granddaughter maternally of Sir Denis Dobson, KCB, OBE, QC (1908-1995). She is a freelance writer and journalist. She has experience writing news, features and interviews for magazines and national newspapers, including The Sunday Times Style, Tatler, ES Magazine, The Evening Standard, Glamour, Harper’s Bazaar, The Telegraph and Vogue Scandinavia, among others. She has also worked on refreshing brand editorial for companies such as Cartier and Bicester Village.
Source: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...a-strunck.html
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...a/lindsay.html
The King's relative has died
Honourable Michael Albemarle (Alby) Bowes Lyon, who died 30 October, 2023, aged 83, was a scion of the Earls of Strathmore & Kinghorne and a cousin of the King.
He was born on 29 May 1940 as the second son of Captain Honourable Michael Claude Hamilton Bowes Lyon (1893-1953) & his wife Elizabeth Margaret, nee Cator (1899-1959), scion of that Norfolk landed gentry family. He was a nephew of HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother and a first cousin of HM Queen Elizabeth II.
Alby Bowes Lyon was a director of Coutts & Co from 1969 to 1993, and in 1974 he was raised to the rank of an earl's younger son on the succession to the Earldom of Strathmore & Kinghorne of his elder brother, Fergus.]
Alby Bowes Lyon's siblings were Fergus, the 17th Earl (1928-1987), who collapsed and died on his grouse moor in August 1987; Lady Mary (1932-2021), wife of Sir Timothy Colman, KG (1929-2021) and Lady Patricia (1932-1995), wife of Oliver Tetley (1929-1974).
He was unmarried and childless.
Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...owes-lyon.html
https://heinbruins.nl/BowesLyon.html
Honourable Michael Albemarle (Alby) Bowes Lyon, who died 30 October, 2023, aged 83, was a scion of the Earls of Strathmore & Kinghorne and a cousin of the King.
He was born on 29 May 1940 as the second son of Captain Honourable Michael Claude Hamilton Bowes Lyon (1893-1953) & his wife Elizabeth Margaret, nee Cator (1899-1959), scion of that Norfolk landed gentry family. He was a nephew of HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother and a first cousin of HM Queen Elizabeth II.
Alby Bowes Lyon was a director of Coutts & Co from 1969 to 1993, and in 1974 he was raised to the rank of an earl's younger son on the succession to the Earldom of Strathmore & Kinghorne of his elder brother, Fergus.]
Alby Bowes Lyon's siblings were Fergus, the 17th Earl (1928-1987), who collapsed and died on his grouse moor in August 1987; Lady Mary (1932-2021), wife of Sir Timothy Colman, KG (1929-2021) and Lady Patricia (1932-1995), wife of Oliver Tetley (1929-1974).
He was unmarried and childless.
Sources: https://peeragenews.blogspot.com/202...owes-lyon.html
https://heinbruins.nl/BowesLyon.html
wbenson
Former Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2006
- Messages
- 2,902
- City
- -
- Country
- United States
More legal problems for the Earl of Strathmore:
Late Queen’s cousin banned from driving after being caught drunk behind wheel of Mercedes (archive)
One of the late Queen’s cousins has been banned from driving after he was caught speeding while he was drunk at the wheel of his £100,000 Mercedes.
Convicted sex offender Simon Bowes-Lyon, the Earl of Strathmore, was banned from the road for 16 months and fined £1,000 when he appeared at Perth Sheriff Court.
Late Queen’s cousin banned from driving after being caught drunk behind wheel of Mercedes (archive)
One of the late Queen’s cousins has been banned from driving after he was caught speeding while he was drunk at the wheel of his £100,000 Mercedes.
Convicted sex offender Simon Bowes-Lyon, the Earl of Strathmore, was banned from the road for 16 months and fined £1,000 when he appeared at Perth Sheriff Court.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
- Messages
- 77,334
- Country
- Germany
The Marquess and Marchioness of Bath attended The Tusk Gorilla Trail Auction 2023 in London yesterday, November 20:
** Pic ** gettyimages gallery **
** Pic ** gettyimages gallery **
SirGyamfi1
Heir Presumptive
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2022
- Messages
- 2,331
- City
- London
- Country
- United Kingdom
The link is news about the Duke of Westminster. Two workmen who were involved in some redecoration of Eaton hall and one of them went into his room and stole watches
GondorHasNoPants
Gentry
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2023
- Messages
- 84
- City
- Scotland
- Country
- United Kingdom
The Duke of Northumberland has lost his bid to 'bulldoze' allotments on his Syon Park estate in Isleworth, west London. He was hoping to use the land to build 80 apartments.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...owing-years-long-David-vs-Goliath-battle.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...owing-years-long-David-vs-Goliath-battle.html
Two deaths in British Nobility
Captain Michael Charles Gordon Lennox, OBE, RN, who died 10 January, 2024, aged 85, was a scion of the Dukes of Richmond and Gordon, a descendant of the 7th Duke.
He was born 30 September, 1938, 1st son of Rear-Admiral Sir Alexander Henry Charles Gordon Lennox, KCVO, CB, DSO (1911-1987), and his wife the former Barbara Steele (1913-87); and married 1974, Jennifer Susan (Jenny) Gibbs (born 12 May, 1944), scion of the Barons Aldenham, daughter of Capt the Hon Vicary Paul Gibbs (1921-1944), and his wife Jean Frances Hambro (1923-2017) (she married 2ndly in 1946, Rev the Hon Andrew Charles Victor Elphinstone (1918-1975), a first cousin of HM Queen Elizabeth II).
His wife, Dame Jennifer Susan Gordon Lennox, DCVO, was a Woman of the Bedchamber to HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother and later to HM Queen Elizabeth II, and was appointed CVO, and advanced to DCVO in the honours list following the demise of the late Queen.
Capt Gordon Lennox leaves issue, a son Hamish Charles (born 11 June, 1980), and two daughters, Lucinda Jean (born 19 Sept, 1975), and Charlotte Louise (born 18 Sept, 1978).
Sources: Peerage News
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth.../richmond.html
The Dowager Duchess of Rutland, who died 21 January, 2024, aged 86, was the second wife and widow of the 10th Duke of Rutland, mother of the 11th Duke, and daughter of Margaret, Duchess of Argyll.
She was for forty years the chatelaine of Belvoir Castle, Rutland.
She was born 19 June, 1937 at Frances Helen Sweeny, daughter of Charles Francis Sweeny (1909-1993), the American golfer and socialite, and his 1st wife (Ethel) Margaret Whigham (1912-1993), the Scottish debutante, who after her divorce from Sweeny married secondly, 22 March, 1951, as his third wife, the 11th Duke of Argyll (1903-1973), and went through a scandalous divorce from the peer in 1963.
Frances Sweeny, a beautiful debutante in the 1950s married 15 May, 1958, as his second wife, Charles John Robert Manners, the 10th Duke of Rutland, CBE (1919-1999), of Belvoir Castle, Rutland, by whom she issue three sons, David Charles Robert, the 11th Duke (born 8 May, 1959), Lord Robert George Manners (1961-1964), and Lord Edward John Manners (born 29 May, 1965), and a daughter, Lady Helen Theresa Margaret Manners (born 11 November, 1962).
She was widowed 2 January, 1999, and took the style Dowager Duchess of Rutland.
Her grandchildren include the socialites Lady Violet, Lady Alice and Lady Eliza Manners, Charles, styled Marquis of Granby, and Lord Hugo Manners, twins Ivor and Warwick Chipman, and twins Ivo and Vesey Manners.
Source: Peerage News
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...a/rutland.html
Captain Michael Charles Gordon Lennox, OBE, RN, who died 10 January, 2024, aged 85, was a scion of the Dukes of Richmond and Gordon, a descendant of the 7th Duke.
He was born 30 September, 1938, 1st son of Rear-Admiral Sir Alexander Henry Charles Gordon Lennox, KCVO, CB, DSO (1911-1987), and his wife the former Barbara Steele (1913-87); and married 1974, Jennifer Susan (Jenny) Gibbs (born 12 May, 1944), scion of the Barons Aldenham, daughter of Capt the Hon Vicary Paul Gibbs (1921-1944), and his wife Jean Frances Hambro (1923-2017) (she married 2ndly in 1946, Rev the Hon Andrew Charles Victor Elphinstone (1918-1975), a first cousin of HM Queen Elizabeth II).
His wife, Dame Jennifer Susan Gordon Lennox, DCVO, was a Woman of the Bedchamber to HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother and later to HM Queen Elizabeth II, and was appointed CVO, and advanced to DCVO in the honours list following the demise of the late Queen.
Capt Gordon Lennox leaves issue, a son Hamish Charles (born 11 June, 1980), and two daughters, Lucinda Jean (born 19 Sept, 1975), and Charlotte Louise (born 18 Sept, 1978).
Sources: Peerage News
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth.../richmond.html
The Dowager Duchess of Rutland, who died 21 January, 2024, aged 86, was the second wife and widow of the 10th Duke of Rutland, mother of the 11th Duke, and daughter of Margaret, Duchess of Argyll.
She was for forty years the chatelaine of Belvoir Castle, Rutland.
She was born 19 June, 1937 at Frances Helen Sweeny, daughter of Charles Francis Sweeny (1909-1993), the American golfer and socialite, and his 1st wife (Ethel) Margaret Whigham (1912-1993), the Scottish debutante, who after her divorce from Sweeny married secondly, 22 March, 1951, as his third wife, the 11th Duke of Argyll (1903-1973), and went through a scandalous divorce from the peer in 1963.
Frances Sweeny, a beautiful debutante in the 1950s married 15 May, 1958, as his second wife, Charles John Robert Manners, the 10th Duke of Rutland, CBE (1919-1999), of Belvoir Castle, Rutland, by whom she issue three sons, David Charles Robert, the 11th Duke (born 8 May, 1959), Lord Robert George Manners (1961-1964), and Lord Edward John Manners (born 29 May, 1965), and a daughter, Lady Helen Theresa Margaret Manners (born 11 November, 1962).
She was widowed 2 January, 1999, and took the style Dowager Duchess of Rutland.
Her grandchildren include the socialites Lady Violet, Lady Alice and Lady Eliza Manners, Charles, styled Marquis of Granby, and Lord Hugo Manners, twins Ivor and Warwick Chipman, and twins Ivo and Vesey Manners.
Source: Peerage News
https://www.angelfire.com/realm/goth...a/rutland.html
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
Separation of Prince Nikolaos and Princess Tatiana: April 2024- Latest: fandesacs2003
-
