Talaith Aberffraw - the Royal House of Gwynedd and Wales

[Ryan Davies]

Cunedda has direct male line descendants amongst the Morgans. Abba Father has made them come down all the way from Noah. It is just a fabulous miracle and truth that the family exist at all.

We should be glad that the Cymry have kept such careful records. We would not have much respect for our family if we were not able to enjoy studying about them and how they have served God.

I believe the tears and bravery today should be counted as Joy. I believe the Saints of Wales in former generations have striven to speak the truth. Whatever any Country chooses as a form of government should be in Christ.

Did you know that America is named for Amerigo Vespucci, a descendant of Amorges, son of Italus, the Oenotrian Greek king who unified Italy? The Cymry came through Italy to Aquitaine to Dol to Wales. The Cymry were the Greeks who had swept into many cities of Italy, but especially a city called Velch. They coexisted with Etruscans, Romans, and others in the melting pot known as the Roman Empire. They married in with the Roman Emperors. Keeping pedigrees has made the historical tracings possible.

Right...

I think I realise where you are coming from. By "old" you don't mean Geoffrey of Monmouth, I don't think.

Would I be right in thinking you're getting your stuff either from Iolo Morganwg (Who historians widely think was a forger, but I think may be wrong to dismiss entirely out hand) or the more recent and popular Adrian Gilbert, Alan Wilson and Baram Blacket ("writers" of books like "The Holy Kingdom", "The quest for the real King Arthur" and "The Orion Mystery")?

If it's the later then they are mildly entertaining but full of rubbish, and no serious historian takes them seriously. From memory some of there arguments seems to be based on nothing except speculation.

Is the general premise that the Kings of Morgannwg were male line descendants of Cunedda, they were the true "high Kings" of the Britons and that they are survived in the male line by people with the surname Morgan?

If that's even close then I don't think I'm going to convince you otherwise or that this thread is the place for it.

Enjoy your journey into Welsh history and keep in mind that not everything everyone says is true- even reputable historians are proved wrong by new discoveries.

All it takes is Cunedda's wife(/lovers) to have been unfaithful and maybe none of his DNA got passed on even as far as his children.

Check your assumptions too, they can leave blind spots. Surnames didn't exist in Wales until the 1500's. So for example having Morgan as a surname means that your father's first name was Morcant when that family took on a surname. It's not like the clan system in Scotland is assumed to be where everyone is descended from a chief (and in actual fact it's not like that at all, most clan members are not descended from a chief but merely gave allegiance to one and took their chief's clan name as their surname, but that is the common assumption)

If you have Welsh ancestry then there's every chance you're descended from someone royal, it won't get you a throne but there's every reason to be proud of your heritage.

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

Well, thanks anyway! Hope everyone stays Faithful!

 

[BallerinaTime333]

House of Aberffraw

The House Of Aberffraw is the Royal Line down from Cunedda the High King of Britain isn't it? If there is a requirement for Salic Law, then there cannot be a break in the line of males. Why hasn't anyone pointed out that there were breaks in the concurrent lines of Anwyl and Owain Glendower? Ethyllt verch Cynan and Angharad ferch Maredudd, ancestresses respectively of the Anwyl and Glendower lines, were the heiresses of Wales. Ethyllt was married to Gwriad ap Elidur. Angharad was married to the interim King, Cynfyn ap Gwerstan. Whatever line might have been picked, a break in tradition arose when heiresses received the nod.

Owain Tudor was directly down from Cunedda and King Henry VIII felt very free to claim Wales based on this fact. When he left the succession requirements for his son to follow, Mary Tudor, Henry's sister, was the next line progenitress. To this day, the British succession is tied to being down from Mary Tudor. This is a break in Wales tradition.

I think that Wales Law requires the Right of Succession extend to another brother of Maredudd, Angharad's father, if he had a brother.

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

I think Einion Yrth, the progenitor of these standups for the honours, was UTHR PENDRAKON. PENDRAKON is Hebrew for " lest by power." One of his sons was killed by his nephew for his Throne.

How To Find The YDNA of Cunedda

Henry VIII is an heir male to Cunedda. His Y DNA is with the British Museum. If someone is the High king, he will match that for Salic Law to be enforced. If Wales decides to have male or female lines eligible for a monarchy, then never mind!

About Clans and Princes

It turns out the Cymraeg for Prince is Twyswg. It is an Etruscan word originally literally translated: "you son." It is unfair to assume the Northern Morgans of Cateness are an entirely different clan than Cunedda's son, Dwegfyl, a direct heir line now. They use the same word for Prince only spelled "Toiseach."

The word clan is also Etruscan "kln." It was in use in Moray and Argyll, which was Wale's for centuries. My grandfather, David 1 of Scotland, took the Mormaers' territories of Moray and others to satisfy immigrant knights he brought from Flemish areas. They were tilting in Pembroke when he enlisted them. They defeated the Angus clan and David made Freskin of Moravia, earl of Moray. The Angus clan was descended from Berwyn, king of Britain through Morggan Mac Cathmael. Berwyn was a descendant of the Italic Morgan clan out of Italus, first king of Italy.

Earlier, Morggan Of Mar's son had married Llewelyn the Great's daughter. There is an old house near Aberffraw called Morggan's house from that era (around 1000 A. D. - the time of the meteor bombardment of Europe and the erosion of life in Scotland from the climate changes). Llyn Llywenan on Anglesey might be a rescue mission for Morggan's people brought down from Loch Llawers. Llywenan is Yew Tree Lake with yews planted by them. They were famous yew tree growers in Scotland. It is true that some lakes in the area were called loch instead of llyn.

Addition

I have to make an adjustment about Owen Tudor's Line...he is down from Coel Hen with Y DNA The same as Cunedda's. They are all down from Beli Mawr. The sons of Coel Hen moved South and the sons of Cunedda moved back North to Glen Lyon. Same Y DNA.

 

[Ryan Davies]

SeaBrightMorgan, maybe you should start your own thread about the Morgans, Y-DNA of Cunedda/Coel Hen & "High King of Wales"? It might be more appropriate than posting in this one which while it goes off on tangents is primarily about the House of Aberffraw.I've enjoyed reading most of this thread, but you're posts make it more confusing to follow as you are posting while you find new information.

Although Cunedda is often seen as the founder, strictly speaking most historians see the Kings coming from his male line as the House of Cunedda. The last of that male line in Gwynedd to reign was Hywel ap Rhodri Molwynog. His daughter, Esyllt, married Merfyn Frych who was the male line ancestor of the House of Aberffraw.

You've correctly- albeit after 10 posts- realised that he is not a male line descendant of Cunedda. Some good sources suggest he was the son of the King of the Isle of Man rather than a decendant of Coel Hen. The book you are reading at sounds like it suggests that Cunedda was the son of Coel Hen. More reliable sources suggest he was Coel's son-in-law, so no Y-DNA passed on there.

BTW what book are you reading?

SeaBrightMorgan

I, like most people posting on this particular thread, would treat information from the early part of the House of Aberffraw and the entirety of the House of Cunedda, and certainly pre-Cunedda very lightly and assume that lots of it was mythological and certainly not a reputable source. I know you don't, and it can make it hard to talk about the later period which we know a lot about for certain and the earlier part on the same thread. That's why I'd love for you to start another thread so I can engage with both your information about the Morgans/Coel Hen/Cunedda and the House of Aberffraw which are, IMO, two separate topics.

I can just about buy the idea of someone claiming a Brythonic title based on male line decent from Cunedda or Coel. Maybe Wales, but not the House of Aberffraw which this particular thread is about. Especially not a male line descendant of Coel Hen – assuming that their ancestors aren't descended from Merfyn Frych – claiming to part of the house of Abberffraw.

Put simply, if a male line descendant of Coel Hen/Cunedda ever became King of Wales and none of his direct ancestors (apart maybe from Cunedda) had ever been King of Gwynedd, then he would title himself King of Wales, Prince of Wales, High King of Wales, maybe King of Brythoniaid and Head of the House of Coel (or if relevant perhaps the House of Cunedda- unlikely if you are relying on just Y-DNA and a surname being Morgan) or possibly Tudor* but not King of Gwynedd, Prince of Gwynedd, Prince of Aberffraw or head of the House of Aberffraw.

*Although I totally disagree that Henry VIII was a male line heir to Cunedda, you obviously think he was. Did he head up the House of Aberffraw or the House of Tudor? It's Tudor, so by your own logic a male line descendant of Coel, who never sat on the English throne, could be heir to the House of Tudor – I think even the most die-hard of us would admit that the House of Tudor is somewhat more well known and prestigious than that of Aberffraw.

Ok, SeaBrightMorgan (and BallerinaTime333, feel free too because I added one of your posts). I created a Coel Hen/Morgan thread because I want to see where you go with this train of thought. I'm not sure if it's going to be or or

I'll try and respond on that thread as soon as I can, but I'd love it if you can post your info about Coel Hen, Cunedda, High Kings of Wales, YDNA of Henry VIII, how Abba Father preserved the male line from Noah to the kings of Troy to Britain to Wales and on to the good 'ol USA and everything in between over there rather than this thread.

And please, please - could you post on that thread what books you've been reading and how they think Morgan families in the US are the heirs to celtic thrones?

House of Coel Hen/Morgan

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

What is Freedom?

I am glad to be a helper, but my technological know-how is somewhat limited. Sorry. I did quit the thread as Mr. Davies insisted, but then realized I was being too delicate. I got back in and now have two names.

This is a good example of learning bravery. I wish to point out that hundreds of Morgans all over the world are lineal descendants of Dwegfyl or Dogfail, Prince of Aberffraw. We were forced into "exile" for various reasons. The Gwent Morgans are easily proveable to be the same ones as Aberffraw ones. They just had to move around in shipping centers to keep commerce up. My husband's grandfather was forced to America when their competition took their land away. I am sure that the Wikipedia lines are correct aren't they? Do they not show that the Aberffraw contenders for a proposed throne line for Wales descend from females? If you do not believe the Royal Line down from Beli Mawr is real, then what particular figure is the real king or queen to use? Do you want to find the actual family down from the old kings? Maybe not. Maybe you are up to something else. You cannot push anyone out who realizes they are free to do anything allowed in a Forum. Please be Blessed and Free all of Wales (and America too!).

Oh. One more thing! Some royal family members over the centuries have been called by The Good Lord to be Rescue Rangers able to nip in with the family to help out. My grandfather was Abel Morgan, Founder of the Baptist Church in America and in Christ's keeping. We might be necessary to help out in Wales one day. And certainly no one got hurt by my husband's cousins nipping back in the WW2 to fight for England and Wales safe. The family had been forced out 50 years before...but there they were in the Air Corp. So what if my learning curve is not at the same level as yours. At least I finally get there!

Be Blessed All!

 

[Ryan Davies]

I am glad to be a helper, but my technological know-how is somewhat limited. Sorry. I did quit the thread as Mr. Davies insisted, but then realized I was being too delicate. I got back in and now have two names.

Sigh. Too hard to click a link?

This is a good example of learning bravery. I wish to point out that hundreds of Morgans all over the world are lineal descendants of Dwegfyl or Dogfail, Prince of Aberffraw.

There has never, ever, EVER been a Prince of Aberffraw by that name. Llewellyn the Great was the first to adopt the title. The only people ever, EVER to be Prince of Aberffraw apart from Llewellyn the Great are his son Dafyed and his grandsons Llywelyn ap Gruffydd (Llywelyn the Last) and Dafydd ap Gruffydd.

You cannot claim an ancient Welsh king as your ancestor based soley on your surname when last names did not exist in Wales until the 1500's

I am sure that the Wikipedia lines are correct aren't they?

Not necessarily, especially if you are getting into Legendary or Pre-History. For instance I see that you changed the House of Aberffraw Wikipedia page to say that the current head is unknown until someone checks Henry VIII Y-DNA and finds a match for someone in America

Do they not show that the Aberffraw contenders for a proposed throne line for Wales descend from females?

Everyone from the House of Aberffraw is descended from a female line of Cunedda. That is WHY they are called the House of Aberffraw instead of the House of Cunedda, to show that they are descended from a separate male ancestor.

They were the last dynastic Welsh royal family. You might not approve but it doesn't change history!

If you do not believe the Royal Line down from Beli Mawr is real, then what particular figure is the real king or queen to use?

Ones that historians believe?

As far as Gwynedd is concerned Rhodri the Great, Owain Gwynedd or Llewellyn the Great would be the usual three.

For the rest of Wales, Owain Glyndwr and anyone else who has reliable evidence that they actually exist and didn't have genealogies made up 700 years after they were supposed to be born?

Do you want to find the actual family down from the old kings?

As Kings of Wales?

I don't care.

As head of the House of Gwynedd and especially the House of Aberffraw (which is what you claim for Morgans and what this thread is ABOUT hence Talaith Aberffraw)

No, I'd rather find a descendant from Kings who were actually members of the House of Aberffraw. The House of Aberffraw is made up of those descendants of Merfyn Frych (825AD) who actually ruled as Kings of Gwynedd(and possibly their descendants) until the last ruling member, Dafydd ap Gruffydd, died in 1283 and the descendants of Dafydd ap Gruffydd or any of his brothers.

That's what the House of Aberffraw IS. It's not whoever was descended from Bali or Cunedda or anything else.

You cannot push anyone out who realizes they are free to do anything allowed in a Forum.

You are right. I thought I found a really interesting informative thread. I'm pretty sure you are going to trash it with random "facts" about pre-history and how Kings of Troy were the original House of Gwynedd, so I'll bow out.

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

House of Aberffraw

Oh, I think Aberffraw was a holiday house on Anglesey for the Royal Family. While Dwegfyl was only the youngest son (it seems) of Cunedda's household, he was still a little Prince of Aberffraw. His name in the language of the Veneti (Luwian mixed with Etrurian) means "fish son." I have just found out that Gwynedd was also called Venedotia or Venedolia.

The History of Wales is so ancient and interesting. I have not been able to get so much information about it until the advent of Wikipedia and the most recent additions about Cunedda's and Coel Hen's lines. There could be a nice historical book just about all of the descendants of Beli Mawr and how all of the kings and princes of Wales have come down from his grandson Afallach. All. It is Wales recorded history. I have also just found out that there was no way to retain one's gentle status according to Law without one's pedigree. The Law meted out punishments based on one's status. There were Law courts to determine if a man was a gentleman and if his pedigree was intact. An earlier contributor to this forum pointed out that the old Laws of Wales required a ruler to be from an all male lineage. Men crashed around and disobeyed the Law for personal gain. They killed their brothers to get acres. They set themselves and even their daughters up as kings (or queens) and passed the throne down illegally by might. People argue about Henry VII grabbing the throne and Robert the Bruce. The violence was brought about by something. If Christ is your Guide in Life, you will construct your Laws around His Word and never go wrong.

Happily, in looking about I have discovered that Cunedda, down from Beli Mawr of the ancient line from Lugdunum in Europe (Lyon) married the daughter of Coel Hen. He received the High Kingship because he was a good father to His people.

Best All!

Hi! I have been thinking about that Lady Charlotte Guest and why she wanted to convince all the girls to abandon their white lace caps for the black tall egg collectors in 1849 or so. Since she was an English Lord's daughter, I think she was jealous of the local girls' prettiness. The ladies in London wore those tall things to ride in.

Ringerike, Norway has the structure of the ancient cap from Greece...a proper Grecian tiara. But why leave off the white lace...some of the prettiest in earth. That lace tradition arrived from Aquitaine. I do not know which migration, but one can see the ancient Greek dances there still. And they wear various types of lace chapeaux all with white lace. Their traditions are very nice to keep family together.

The Wikipedia site "Kings of Wales Family Trees" has the lines that ran down from Einion Yrth to present day. Most of the one's who are being presented as heirs are down from a female heiress with a presentable king married in. Old Wales Law forbids that. Might was maybe interpreted as a substitute for adherence to Law. If a Nation's Law follows Holy Scripture fully, there will never be doubt about a proper course.

A proper tiara for a girl's headdress is in the avatar image box left. That one is in silver. That same kind is very ancient and can be in white lace.

Be Blessed All!

To All The Princesses Who Need Some Help With The New Glass Shower Doors

Girls in Castles sometimes have to make decisions about glass. The best way to keep Wales glass clear and nicely new is the make a soft paste of Barkeep's Friend. Please rinse with spring water.

The Cymry were some of the first in the world to make glass. It came from the beautiful blue slab glass that was a product of the mining industry. It is a blue colour we now call seabright blue. When the Cymry would open up new ports of call (often called Newport), the blue glass beads and cups they made would be an attractant. The Cymry fellows who started the tradition were in Old Oenoe (now Unye, Turkey). The blue glass is still made today in Newport, Wales and Newport, Scotland. Just like 1000 years ago. Oenoe means wine jar. That is also a Cymry adventure.

A Special Message

All Who Love Christ:

Please see The Holy Scriptures soon. The Verses found in Corinthians I and Corinthians IIShould be read soon...very soon! They will reveal what is about to happen in Wales.

Thank you!

Cunedda's Seemingly Roman Ancestry

Someone enquired about the Roman type names of Cunedda, progenitor of the Royal House Of Aberffraw. Tacitus has the answer. The Cornovii (Kournaovioi) and Aedui tribes were joined back in Bourges, France, part of Aquitania later. Since those tribes had been Latin (La Tene sic), (and known as descendants of Italus, First king of Italy I am pretty sure), the Emperor started admitting them as senators of Rome. Their nobility sent their children to Rome for their education. There is one story of Constantine the Great by Eusebius who recorded Constantine was baited into fighting a British chief's son who was training with his unit. Later Constantine moved the very Capitol of Rome to Eboracum...York!

Be Brave, Wales!

Pray for your families, please. I had no idea the turn of events would be so fast. To pray for Christ to keep all of you safe is the best course. Be very brave.

The Identity of King Arthur

In thinking about my previous note on the y's in the word Cymry actually being gammas from Greek, I believe the p in Ap is a rho. It would be pronounced ar. Therefore, any son of Einion Yrth would have his name end with Ap Yrth really sounding like Ar Yrth or Arthur. The time frame is correct also. The king Owain Ddandwyn and kingdom of Rhos are where to look. Who in the world forced anyone to pronounce rho's as p's?

Another key to this is the fact that a Mackay ended up with subkingship of Rhos. Who would turn his own small kingdom over to his foster father, Sir Kay, but the High King Arthur?

The Druid Tradition and How it was finally Defeated.

Recently, in studying Tacitus about the Cymry origins, I uncovered the fact that he considered the Aquitanian Cornovii to be the descendants of the Royal Line of the founders of Bruges named Bituriges. I believe these were all descendants of Amorges, king of the Oenotrians (Oenoe or wine!) and son of Italus, king of Italy.) That massive settlement of the La Tene or Latin culture began along the Rhine River as the coastline hugging Greeks moved their miners inland from the Bay of Lions to mine and mint gold coins. The grape growing was an added asset. Today the Bruges area is the French wine capital of the whole world. The Cornovii were not called that until they had settled in Breton a second time near Dol en Bretagne. Before they left Bruges and their mighty vineyards (earlier the Etruscan king of Rome Tarquinius Priscus had wanted them), they had set up a government that included the Aedui. The Aedui were old nobility who wanted a say in government. They were the druids.
All had to flee to the Milan area over the Alps in a great migration. They were returning to an old safe area near the Larian Lake system. One river there is named Morges (Morgan!) Their king was named Bellovasus. I believe he is the ancestor of Tasciovanus, Cunobelinus and Afallach. That is why it is important to establish the Y DNA of the Royal Line from Cunedda. These three founders of the Cymry are down from Llud. An ancient writer has written that Llud moved colonists to Britain, but had to teach them to farm. They were mostly miners.

The druids wanted to stay with the Romans a lot before the resettlement of the Bituriges who became Cornovii.

Be Blessed All in Wales!

House of Aberffraw

Some might say this brief sojourn into an archaic history of Wales is silly, but I think that the originator of this thread would enjoy it. I hope, anyway. The call he made to unify Wales in national pride ( safe pride we pray), is my purpose. Could it be that the line of Cunedda is a unifying factor? Is a study of the Ancient Wales Law that brought the Cymry (Cimmerians of oldest history) from Noah's Ark to their homes and lands in Wales a safe study in furthering their regional intent? Whether the latest chapter of Wales history includes a legal system built around a prince, a king or a republic, it should be founded fully in Christ.

Wales

The greatest kindness anyone from America could share with a people forming a new nation is to acquaint them with some of our mistakes:

1. We forgot to name ourselves a Christian nation at the onset and failed to declare in our Formative Documents that He is our King. We declared that we were Under God; however, most pagans do not recognize the Lord God Of Abraham as their God. They pretend we all have the same God until they strike.
2. We did not, therefore reserve immigration to those who were Christians or those seeking Christ in their immigration.
3. We did not declare the Churches and Church lands of Our Father untouchable. Although we have declared a separation of Church and State with no taxation for The Lord's Church, we have since gone to taxing the Church, selling or awarding Church property in court litigation, and and allowing land claims of old Church property for secular purposes.
4. We have allowed our very Nation to be declared secular.
5. We have allowed laws to be passed to erode the Sacrament of the Church that is marriage. We have also passed laws allowing venal sins like sodomy to be declared legal, and we have endeavored to celebrate and support the sinners in loud expansive celebrations. To be against the sinning is to be excluded from the happy hip hop. If we remember the ancient mistakes of fallen nations like Sparta and Carthage, we will not follow their example in condoning pederasts and other criminal endeavors.

To be unpopular is sometimes to be dangerously chastised by one's peers. I guess what I have enjoyed the most in studying the ancient history of Wales (and that history in continuation today) is the incredible bravery of my cousins and ancestors in standing for their right to be counted amongst the People of God. The way is clear for success with Jesus Our Saviour.

Be Blessed Wales!

Ar vs. Ap

The use of Ap in naming the son of a particular father is a unique form of nomenclature singularly in Cymraeg. Since I proposed that 'ap' was actally 'ar' (as in Armorican), I thought to examine the root of 'ar' in Hebrew. Strong's Concordance offered 'lion' as a probable meaning from 'ariy.' The Morgan Family is 'sakahumarga' according to the Persian histories of Cyrus the Great. 'Saka' is another Hebrew word for lion. Amorges (UMRGGA), the old Sakahumargan chief led the migration of the Cymry after Cyrus the Great's demise. He led regional tribes out of the beautiful Anatolian Riviera to the Pelopponese, the Sardinian Riviera, Corfu, the Aeolion Isles, the Larian Lake (Lake Como Complex) and Morgantina in Sicily. The grapes of Margiana went with us from the Areni Cave winery...the 5000 year old production area in the very most northwestern bit of the Margianan territory. Back then the name of the territory was mrgn, since there were no vowels. There were found the largest, most famous grapes in the world. It is where all of our people learned wine cultivation, gold mining, bronze smelting, wine jar production, glassmaking and herding, among other things. I insist the people were an inland post of the Aeolean people or the Children of Elisha mentioned in the Bible because our best cities like Oenoe, Olympos near Mount Chimaera And Ephesus (also known as Morges) were Aeolean. When I looked up the Morgan YDNA on one famous site, they had our group down as Anatolian. The most interesting thing is the corridor from the Mediterranean islands like Crete, Amorgos, Sardinia, Corfu and Capri to Bourges, Milan, Marseilles, and Aquitania. The way is littered with same GRAPE DNA! all the way along and accompanying viticulture. The Morgans (Oenotrians and Morgetes) are the chief tribe that organized the many tribes into a 'league' of sorts in Italia where they had held sway already for a thousand years according to ancient Roman historians. The chief, Italus, who is heralded as the first king of Italy, is remembered in the name Ithel in Wales. Morges, known as Amorges in Margiana (the 'A' meant 'king') is remembered in the name Morgan, which is a diminutive. I know this sounds like 'believe it or not,' but the historians are plentiful where this comes from, and some are even contemporaries with the players.

Whatever is the real truth will be revealed in temperate study, but the first gathering of the bits to make an accurate historical record is exciting.

Be Blessed!

The Margianan Connection Of Morges/Morgan and Wales

After sifting through quite a few images of Margianan motifs ( Our ancestors were quite artistic.), I came across the shield emblems of Sir Gareth and Sir Gawain. The Double Headed Eagle sign is apparently quite ancient. It came across the Mediterranean from the Caucasus to Wales right into the Gwynedd area. The avatar in this thread shows the Margianan metal button from a really nice collection of artifacts. It was 2500 years old in the time of Arthur.

I checked the heraldry accuracy with the Arthurian section in the College of Heralds.

Prayerful Request

Each and every person amongst the People of Wales is a member of a nobility stemming from Noah. The Cymry are descendants of the most ancient families upon the Earth. They are of the family of Priam of Olympos (in the Anatolian Riviera and next to the forge mountain, Chimaera) and Troy, his conquered prize. They are of the Romans and Etrurians a little, also adventurers from the tribes of Noah. They are of the Sabines, the very tribe into which Abraham was born before he received his own tribe. They are of the Morgan tribe descended from Ancient Berwyn, for whom the Berwyn Mountain Range in Wales is named. The archaeological proofs and DNA studies are bearing all this out. All over the western Mediterranean are one special sign that the Cymry have passed through and thrived. Each place has a village or a landmark called Himera (for Chimaera). A stream called Himera runs next to the La Tene Archaeological site near Morges on Lake Geneva. A gold mining village named Himera lies at the bottom of Mount Morgan in Sicily. It was a private area near the ancient city of Morgantina. In your travels and studies, please watch for these places. You might get more information about the Cymry heritage.

Best Blessings to you all forever!

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

The Argyllwyds

Argyle was once a possession of the kings of Wales. Supposedly, Llewellyn the Great was the argyllwyd, but I would have to have that confirmed. Apparently, the old Morgan-Berwyn line of kings held the whole of western Britain and over the top. We know Llud held the London area (Luddenton?) from the ancient mints of Cunobelinus and Tasciovanus nearby. But the family was centered around the Gwynedd area and in the Isles of Britain. If we remember the family tribe was Kournaovioi ('young men of the well-lit ships') and today, Cornovii, we can recall the naval requirements of being a family member. Some people were stationed onshore and some had to travel the seas. Argyle was apparently a beef market. It had cattle vetting stations on the western Scottish islands like Raasay, which are still remembered today. The country around Argyle was Ayr. Again the 'y' was actually a Greek 'Rho', so it would be 'agr.' The word 'agr' is Agora.' Agora is the Greek and, originally, Hebrew word for market.

The cattle were brought in by barge. I assume the journey was from Doll-en-Bretagne. Since very ancient times ( like 1000 B.C.), Argyle was a center of commerce. The internet says Gyll is a word from Wales. The root of the word is GL, since earliest Gaelic was Hebrew and had no vowels:

Abarim Publications' online Biblical Hebrew Dictionary
עגל

This root word Gyll means 'calf.'

 

[Princess Wincess]

Pretty Much Unknown Tidbits About Wales

The city of Troy was a conquest of King Priam from the land of the Cimmerians near Mount Chimera, the forge mountain of eternal fire in the Anatolian Riviera. The Haiti, a related people who lived in the famous city of Hattusa nearby, called the city of Troy 'Wilusa.' Since the Haiti and other Luwian speakers like the Trojans had no vowels, they spelled it WLS. Please say that quickly three times! That's right...Wales!!!

Also, much later, when William conquered England, Bernard Neufmarch, a Norman, got Hereford. He was directly descended from King Priam. He was already a cousin of the Cymry.

 

[BallerinaTime333]

Proof Wilusa Is Troy and One Early Ancestral Home Of Wales

From Livius.com:

"Troy VI is almost certainly the "Homeric" Troy. In Hittite sources, it is called Wilusa, which is the name that Homer also uses: Ϝίλιος, Wilios, from which names like Ilios and Ilion were derived when the Greeks no longer pronounced the W. The name Τροίη, Troy, was also used, and resembles another word known from Hittite texts: T(a)ruwisa. There's nothing strange about these double names, which may originally have referred to the citadel and the lower city, and were kept by Homer because it offered him some metric freedom." (a quote for educational purposes from their Troy page."

If we remember the son of Cunedda named Dwegfyl, we might associate the 'fyl' with that Ϝίλιος mentioned above. Cunedda in Gwynedd (Venedotia or Venedolia also) still might have had that tradition of Trojan origin to keep within his family body of knowledge.

Dear Wales,

The Good Lord is coming soon. Be of good cheer. We are praying for you always, Lambs of God. Stay straight and take the tattoos off. There is a laser treatment that leaves you cute and safe again. Never forget the tattoos are founded in evil to trip you up.

Princess Wincess

Cyme According To Herodotus

Long before the use of Chimaera as a forge mountain by the ancient Cymry, these Aeoleans down from Japheth were called the children of Elisha. They are in the Holy Scriptures as the people who provided dyes and other goods to all nations. They had a system of government which provided for tax free trading amongst 11 or 12 great cities. This time frame is roughly 3000 B.C. The Cymry come from Cyme. Again, I do not know if Herodotus' "y" is a "y" or a "gamma" in Cyme. This city was located above Phoenicia and was later called Phocaea. Herodotus says that Cyme or Phocaea was one of the oldest cities on earth and that it had colonized Chimaera. The citizens of the area had to flee Chimaera in 450 B.C.with Amorges and they returned to Cyme or Phocaea to make ready a mass migration. Herodotus says they used Athenian pentaconters to carry the people and that they had 60 of them. They also went with the rounder type merchant ships later called "nao." (Please rember KourNAOvioi or Cornovii...we all know Cymry are down from them--Cunedda's line). As soon as they left, the Persians invaded and took Phocaea. Herodotus says they found an empty city. The pentaconters were state of the art fastest things known to man then and held many people in their holds. The Phocaeans first went to Corsica and then spread out from there. They were welcomed into Magna Graecia (Italy) by the Etruscans over time and had a special city called Velch . I guess we need to look for sunken pentaconters in the Corsican waters. We also should plan to test archaeological finds of Y DNA against British (and Americans).

One has to remember the Oenotrians were originally out of the Pelopponese and were descendants of Minos, grandson of Menes of Egypt, himself Minishtushu son of Sargon the Great of Sumeria. The Oenotrians had begun to settle the peninsula of Italia around 1500 B.C. They used Morges (a village later known as Ephesus) near Troy as one of their trading centers. The merchant ships (which also were warships as necessary) roamed from the Middle East clear to Marseille, and eventually all the way to Sweden. In short, the Cymry have been able to plan as a group. They have been a Nation without just one land for a long time. As long as they have kept their native language, now 3500 years old, they have been able to organize for survival. The Good Lord has accomplished this. Since they speak a form of ancient Aramaean with Luwian words added, they will be able to speak with Christ in His Very Own birth language.

Ciao!

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

Arthur the King...Grandson of Cunedda?

All of the past history of the ancient people of Elisha (Aeolean Cyme and Chimaera to Oenotria and the western Mediterranean and out to Britain) culminated in a Christian king named Arthur. As I have suggested, he has the exact same DNA as Cunedda and Cunedda's direct male line descendant Henry VIII of England. His name was Owain Ddanwyn Ap Einion Yrth (Uther?) Ap Cunedda...Yrthur for short. He inherited the Kingdom of Rhos from his grandfather. He built a castle in Rhos with 14 foot thick walls. Why? He had to protect against incursions of Roman-trained barbarian cohorts. He had the burden of fighting for the organization of Britain. (His grandfather, Cunedda, descendant of Noah, the Aeolean Greeks, the Minoans, the Bituriges "kings of the earth," the Armorican and British kings, had divided the whole of the Isle of Britain in twain with his brother. Then Cunedda slew his brother to take the whole.) Yrthur's forge in Rhos was called Caliburn. I have seen a photograph of It. It is Margianan and Chimaeran in construction. The swords Arthur designed there...the camlanns of the Scots...bore the engraving Ex Caliburn..."out of Caliburn. " He put Argyll and Agr and Rhos and Cateness together. The people were mixed Cymry and Scots (people from an Athenian deme called Skotussa. They are the ancient Hatti (Chattan) and were dispersed for safety to trading ports like Kato Doli in the Pelopponese, Corinth, Lake Scodra in Epirus and Lake Como in the Veneto of Italy before the isles became their home. We still remember the Kournaovioi were the Lord's of the Isles. They were the Clan Morggan and married into the Jarl lines of Orkney and other isles. They received Cateness and were Jarls of Cateness. Then they were Mormaors of Moray, then Mar. They were deposed in their mormaerships by David 1st of Scotland. Then they married into David's and Henry 1st' families so no harm done. Today some Morgan famies carry the most royal blood of Scotland, England and Wales bar none.). Arthur was fostered by the Kay clan (now a sept of Davidson). His kingdom of Rhos was under the Kay rule on his behalf when he took the High King coronation. This is from history of the Cymry. I have seen a painting now in Britain that was done in his lifetime and outlines his holdings: England, Scotland, Wales, Denmark, Norway, Italy, France (He had Arles, known as Fergus' Court in France, since Fergus the Great had to serve two years as interim Emperor of Rome. Pharamond and his son-in-law, Clovis, held Court at Treves until Clovis captured Arles.). The Kings of Europe affirmed fealty to the High King of Britain. It probably explains why his favorite grandson, Hoel III of Aquitaine, had him help in planning.

The whole point of any historical look is to arrive at the Truth. Of anyone would like to like to poke around those 14 foot thick walls in old Rhos, look for Damascene steel of around 500 A.D. It was the happiest sword a man could have. It should be a coin haven. Look for world issues of 200 A.D. to 550 A.D. Arthur's issues should have carried "The Lamb of God Which taketh away the sins of the world." It is a Holy Lamb with banners behind. It was also Sir Owain's and Galahad's shield emblems.

Well...this has been quite a good time. We in UMRGGA or America wish everyone in Wales and around the whole world a lovely time this year!

A Special Message to All People Who Do Not Know their King

No matter what form of government Wales children choose, they must know their King in Heaven. Most people do not realize the reason The Good Lord appointed the kings of the earth in The Holy Scriptures from Jacob's mouth as he lay dying. The kings were to carry The Word and knowledge of God to all peoples. They were to keep earthly laws in harmony with The Holy Word. They were to provide safety and peace for the benefit of rearing young. They were to point the people toward Salvation. This link is a beautiful message for those who need Christ.

What Happens to Your DNA When Holy Spirit and Your Human Spirit Merge — Charisma News

The Black Book Of Carmarthen Secret Language

Sir Bedivere or Bedwyr was a good friend of Sir Kay (Cai in the Black Book Of Carmarthen. The book was named for the colour of its binding.) This article link below describes the discovery of secret writing in the Black Book. Arthur's military exploits are presented in poetry with references to Cai and Sir Bedwyr. ( Sir Bedwyr is buried in a secret valley in Gwynedd...supporting my theory of Owain Whitetooth being Arthur the King):


Ultraviolet light reveals hidden text in ancient book of Arthurian stories | Ancient Origins

Bene Vale

Sir Bedevere Again

Sir Bedevere was King Arthur's Steward of wine. He was the Boteler meaning he had to bring the great casks and giant jars of foreign wine off the ships with his servants, test the wine, rank the wine and bottle it for the King's table. It is a good thing the people of Gwynedd were almost the best wine experts in the world.

About the 14 foot walls of the Royal Castle in Rhos. I have just learned that Cunedda actually built it. He turned it over to his Dux Bellorum, grandson Arthur, when the time came. His older sons, including Tybion, his eldest, were killed. Meirion, Tybion's son, ended up founding his own line of Morgan surnamed children, culminating in Bishop Morgan. The Good Bishop translated the Holy Scriptures into the language of Wales.

Remembering

The original purpose of this Forum by its founder was to explain the Royal House Of Aberffraw and locate any claimant to Royal Honours in Wales. The founder erred in claiming the line of Cunedda died out. It is still extant in several Morgan families. He also erred in stating the line continued through an heiress to establish a New House of Aberffraw. Even Llewellyn the Great, my grandfather and my husband's grandfather, held the Throne of Wales by force only, and not under Wales Law. All female lines are considered extinct and plainly marked so in the Harleian Genealogies. The direct Line of Cunedda was brought forth to rule again in the person of Arthur, elder brother of Henry VIII. He was almost Crowned, but slain by disease received in a gift from his brother, Henry. (The murder weapon was carefully preserved by the people of Wales and is in the British Museum). Henry's own line died out. Over and over the extinct female lines have been looked at as legitimate. This Forum now contains some explanations as to the origins of the People of Wales and Scotland. Advances in archaeology are proving the Proto-Greek origin and later Greek migrations of these peoples to the British Isles. The Scots are the descendants of Skotussa a deme of Athens. It is a shortened form of Saka Hattusa. Their deme was Democratic and also answered to the King In Athens. The Cymry are the Cimmerians (not descended from Gomer but from Japheth through Elisha mentioned in the Bible). The Gwynedd Royal Family are the to be found Ancient Rulers of Britain. The People of Scotland, the People of Wales, and even the Opici (Picts) were unified not once but many times over thousands of years first under Italus, first King of Italy. He was the father of Morges, who was the Larian Lake grandfather of Morgan, the King of Britain who is proving to be the literal "Father of Britain" (please see YDNA studies undertaken by British). He was the real father of Berwyn, for whom the Wales mountain chain was named. Morgan was the grandfather of the whole of the Royalty of Wales and Scotland. The Scottish line (according to the William Forbes Skein, the famous Scottish historian) was blended into the Ancient Line of Gwynedd with the marriage of Europa, Queen of the Scots, to the father of Caractacus, High King of Britain. Caractacus fought the Romans until his well-documented capture by Rome. Caractacus'brother, Corbred assumed the Throne of Britain. He was Fergus II's GREAT-GRANDFATHER. The People of Scotland and Wales are all Aeolean. The Picts intermarried with the Irish and were displaced much by Cunedda. The Opici had been a vassal tribe of Italus in Italy, but ended up with the Gomerian Irish bloodlines predominating. (The Irish are according to ancient Roman historians the original Germanii, a Slave tribe of Cyrus the Great). The Pictish treachery against Cunedda displaced them as they created a small navy to help the Irish invade Britain. Cunedda was forced to respond. That is the point in history where King Arthur appears! King Arthur seems to have been the grandson of Cunedda.

We do not have to suffer with History--just enjoy it...especially if it is underscored by actual fact.

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

The Scottish people are cousins of the Cymry from the earliest times. When the Aeolean Cymry lived in Troy, captured by King Priam as he conquered Western Anatolia, the Scottis lived in Hattusa and were known as the Phrygians. This is historically sort of earth-shattering news. The Phrygian language contains words always in common use by Scottis today. The Phrygian word for son is laddie. The Phrygian word for the little knife the Scots wear is SGN ( they left out vowels in writing) or sgian today. The word actually means "attendant." Phrygian SPRN is now the Scottish "sporran." It means protector.

The Scots seem to have always lived right next door to the Cymry since 5500 years ago in oldest Armenia. The Scottish lines that are firm mixtures of the descendants of the Cymry and also the sons of Phrygia are:

All of them!

Surprise! You are not Irish!

Blessings!

 

[Countessmeout]

The Scottish people are cousins of the Cymry from the earliest times. When the Aeolean Cymry lived in Troy, captured by King Priam as he conquered Western Anatolia, the Scottis lived in Hattusa and were known as the Phrygians. This is historically sort of earth-shattering news. The Phrygian language contains words always in common use by Scottis today. The Phrygian word for son is laddie. The Phrygian word for the little knife the Scots wear is SGN ( they left out vowels in writing) or sgian today. The word actually means "attendant." Phrygian SPRN is now the Scottish "sporran." It means protector.

The Scots seem to have always lived right next door to the Cymry since 5500 years ago in oldest Armenia. The Scottish lines that are firm mixtures of the descendants of the Cymry and also the sons of Phrygia are:

All of them!

Surprise! You are not Irish!

Blessings!

No. Phyrgia was originally settled by a group believed to have been from the Balkans, and of no real link to the Celts. These were the people found in the Trojan war times. The Celts appear in Phyrgia after the death of Alexander the great when they migrated into Northern Phrygia and created Galatia. The reason you find Phrygian words in the Celtic language, is because the language survived the invasion, simply being written in the Greek alphabet. Some words were adopted by the Celts.

The Celts in truth, you're right are not the ancient Celti, they are Gaels. The Gaels spread out throughout Europe and asia minor. When they came to the British isles, they became known as the Celts and eventually the Scotti. The Gaels did originally settle in Ireland. What is England, wales and Scotland were mainly settled by the Bythoni (Cymry). Eventually the Cymry were driven out of most of the island by the Celt/Gaels in the North and the Saxons. They remained in Wales and Cornwall, where traces of their language are still spoken.

So yes, for those who are of Scottish origins, our blood is most likely Gaelic, the same as those in Ireland. But our origins start in Europe, not in Phrygia. The original Phrygian tongue was considered to be similar to Greek.

 

[BallerinaTime333]

I think the Phrygian territories were captured from the original inhabitants descended from the Hattic people's. There were three invading tribes from the West who eventually blended with the Germanii vessels of Cyrus the Great to become the Irish. Those guys had been in Thessaly, spread out to the Balkans, and then we're hired as mercenaries by a local king to take Phrygia. We have to remember a celt is a type of stone axe. Our people of the Amyrgian or MRG (Amorgan or Umarggan) culture used bronze axes and carried bows and arrows before anyone else. Our YDNA today is listed in Genealogical tables as Armenian. A lot of people lump all of the migratory tribes together since they linked up in Switzerland at Lake Geneva and are all called the La Tene ((Latin) culture. But the digs are turning up celt axe makers living right next door to bronze age makers. The real tipoff for the Scottish truth is the YDNA proof linked with the migratory patterns traced through the newest archaeological digs in Thessaly ( Scotussa or Saka Hattusa) , Athens (Aeolean Tribe and Agyllians) and Albania (Scodra) where they apparently became maritime warriors of the Kournaovioi. The Kournaovioi went to Caithness and the Eastern coast of Scotland near the Forth of Forth according to YDNA records.

I honestly think the loan word theory cannot hold water since Greeks never used the word "laddie" for son. That is one language only: Scottish

A Brief Message to Wales People:
Please be invited to come to America and settle on farms in the Shenandoah Valley. Please gather your heritage seeds and pack them in commercial packaging. Please arrange to bring your sheep over in herds. The US needs you to apply for special dispensation to show your sheep in sheep shows here. We would love for you to settle here. The sheep would love the Shenandoah Valley and it will be Blessed for you. Please see the Virginia Estates.com site to choose a farm. We have companies that can erect aromatic cedar log cottages that can be stoned up later. You should consider working together to buy Charolais Cattle (pure) in a large co-op herd to start dairy. Those PODS are a good deal. Please come to America.

Very sincerely,
D.F. Morgan

Farms

The farms are best searched for by specifying Shenandoah Valley land for sale Virginiaestates.com.

 

[Sion ap Rhodri]

Sorry that I am resurrecting and old thread...and an older lineage I suppose.

I am a simple man and a son of a coal miners of Pennsylvania. Who is now living in a simple market town in Gwent (somewhat ironically if you are familiar with the Sons of Idwal ap Anarawd and his brother.

6. The Anwyl family are not the only descendants in a direct male line of one of the sons of Owain Gwynedd - in fact descendants exist from an elder son than the one the Anwyl's descend from.

Quoting above from James Frankcom :

""Last Ruler of Wales"

Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (1246-1282) was arguably the last independent prince among the Welsh to reign in any part of Wales. There was his brother Dafydd who followed him for six months in 1282/3 and after that some rebellions (the most significant being Owain Glyndwr from 1400-1409) but otherwise the family to which Llywelyn ap Gruffudd belonged - the House of Aberffraw - were the last rulers of any part of Wales in a legal and literal sense, maintaining their independence from the English Crown throughout most of the 12th and 13th Centuries, some time after the other realms (e.g. Powys and Deheubarth) had yielded.

"Main Ruler of Wales"

As to whether the house of Aberffraw to which Llywelyn the Great and Llywelyn the Last belonged were the "main" rulers of Wales, it can be safely said that the House of Aberrffraw had claimed paramountcy over all the other princely houses in Wales from their very foundation. They had a strong legal basis for doing so. Whether they were able to exercise that authority was a different matter. But more than any other dynast they dominated Wales consistently for over seven hundred years.

Their claim of paramountcy derived from the following:
The House of Aberffraw claimed its ancient ancestry lay with the far older 'House of the North'. This northern house were male line descendants of King Coel the Old (c.350-420AD), the last Roman "Dux" of northern Britannia who appears to have ruled from Eboracum, modern York. They asserted this claim through Merfyn Frych, king of Gwynedd (825-844AD) who was descended in the male line from Llywarch Hen (r.534-608) and before that Coel the Old (Colius Dux Britanniae).
The House of Aberffraw also claimed its ancestry lay with the 'House of Cunedda' through Essylt, the mother of Merfyn Frych. Essylt was the daughter of King Cynan of Gwynedd - the last of the House of Cunedda. He was a male line descendant of Cunedda Wledig whose right to Wales was through conquest; having driven out the Irish from Wales in c.370AD and ruled most of Wales until his death, c.425).
The House of Cunedda, ancestors of the House of Aberffraw via Essylt, mother of Merfyn, included King Cadwaladr ap Cadfan (reigned 625-634) and his son King Cadwallon the Blessed (655-682), who apart from being kings of Gwynedd were the last two named "High Kings of Britain".
Merfyn Frych, who I mentioned previously, was succeeded by his son Rhodri the Great (Rhodri Mawr). Rhodri united almost all of Wales through marriage and conquest. When Rhodri died his great realm was divided out between his three sons; the eldest son, Anarawd, and his heirs became the kings of Gwynedd and were known as the "House of Aberffraw"; the younger sons (Merfyn and Cadell) and their descendants became the kings of Powys and Deheubarth (respectively). During Rhodri Mawr's lifetime he put in place a system whereby his younger sons, Merfyn and Cadell, paid homage to his elder son, Anarawd. The younger sons swore that both they and their successors in Powys and Deheubarth (known as the Houses of Mathrafal and Dinefwr respectively) would likewise owe homage - for ever - to the descendants of Anarawd, the Kings of Gwynedd of House Aberffraw.
King Anarawd (878-916) was styled "King of the Britons" in the Annals Cambrae in acknowledgement of these circumstances.
King Gruffydd ap Cynan of Gwynedd (1081-1137), a direct descendant of Anarawd (male line, of course) reinforced the homage of lesser princes among the Welsh
King Owain ap Gruffydd (1137-1170), his son, also claimed to be "King of the Welsh" and was acknowledged as the foremost prince among the Welsh.
Prince Llywelyn ap Iorwerth (1195-1240), the grandson of Owain ap Gruffydd and popularly known as Llywelyn the Great, was acknowledged by all the other Welsh princes as their liege-lord at the Council of Aberdyfi in 1216 and recognised as "Prince of Wales" by King Henry III of England in the Treaty of Worcester (1218).
Prince Dafydd ap Llywelyn (1240-1246) was also acknowledged as Prince of Wales and paramount ruler of Wales (owing fealty to the King of England) during his short reign
Prince Llywelyn ap Gruffydd (1246-1282), nephew of Dafydd, was also recognised as Prince of Wales by Henry III in the Treaty of Montgomery (1267) and briefly by his successor, Edward I. He received the homage of all the other Welsh rulers in the 1250s and enforced his rule across all 'Waliae Pura' (that is those parts of Wales ruled by Welshmen). However, Llywelyn refused to to swear fealty to Edward I and was eventually overthrown by the armies of England in 1282.

So, when Llywelyn asserted that he was the rightful ruler of Wales he had a lot of precedence to back him up. This was why he would not tolerate the dastardly activities of Gruffydd ap Gwenwynwyn, the Prince of Powys and why the princes of the House of Dinefwr flocked to him. Llywelyn's ancestors had usually been the main rulers of Wales and because of the settlement made between the sons of Rhodri Mawr could claim paramountcy over all the Welsh (except Gwent which remained outside the lands of Rhodri) on a legal basis.

As such, the living heirs of the House of Aberffraw, in the male line, are not only the living heirs of Owain ap Gruffydd, "King of the Welsh" but are also the heirs of Rhodri Mawr and before that of Cadwallon and Coel Hen in an unbroken line stretching back more than sixty generations to the end of the Roman Empire. Heritage indeed."





"During Rhodri Mawr's lifetime he put in place a system whereby his younger sons, Merfyn and Cadell, paid homage to his elder son, Anarawd. The younger sons swore that both they and their successors in Powys and Deheubarth (known as the Houses of Mathrafal and Dinefwr respectively) would likewise owe homage - for ever - to the descendants of Anarawd, the Kings of Gwynedd of House Aberffraw."

Hywel Dda (Hywel ap Cadell of the House of Dinefwr) broke the oath, and took Gwynedd from Idwal ap Anarawrds sons Iago ap Idwal and Ieun ap Idwal, the rightful heirs to Rhodri Mawr's seat. Although later they were able to reclaim and ruled jointly of Gwynedd,


Rhodri Mawr had three sons, the eldest being Anarawd ap Rhodri Mawr. Anarawd had a brother, Cadell ap Rhodri Mawr, King of Seisyllwg. The Eldest son of Anarawd ap Rhodri Mawr was Idwal Foel ab Anarawd. Upon his death the titles should have passed to Iago ap Idwal, but it was forcefully taken from him from his Uncle and sons.

From Iago comes Owain ab Iago, of Holt, who was father to Gruffudd ap Owain and Brother of Angharad verch Iago and Custennin Ddu "The Black" ab Iago(who led a failed revolt to retake Gweyndd. Custennin's nephew Owain (ap Iago) was orphaned and he was taken as a steward to the Norman Lords and eventually were made into the Clerks of Chester and married into the Line of Hugh I of Chester De Avaranches, and the Son of Owain was named Sir William Le Belward (ap Owain) (The good Ward). The Hugh family married the Fitzhugh daughters (possibly illegitimate) into the "Belward"(ap Owain) line, thus protecting the lineage for their service to the Norman Lords as Knights and leaders of military. In the line of William ap Owain (Le Bel ward) the male decendants were married onto De Duttons, De Kingsleys, Fitzhughs and other powerful Norman families to keep the line in Nobility. William Le Belward died in Somme, Picardie, France after his military service to Hugh the Fat. Eventually they were given lands in Malpas and became Clerks for the Earls of Chester. So, thus, the senior line of Anarawd became Knights and then simple Clerks (Le Clerc de Malpas) of the Earls of Chester, but lives to this day. I may not have a direct male line (2 females), and I may have close bonds with those who have stronger claim, but this is my blood.

 

[SeaBrightMorgan]

The Actual Line Of Cunedda

The Harleian Genealogies delineate that the King of Gwynedd is crowned High King of Britain. As long as there is a son going down the line who is a direct descendant of Cunedda, the original House of Aberffraw is extant. The first House of Aberffraw was gathered around a Royal Holiday House on the Island of Anglesy. It was especially dear to Llewelyn The Great who was acting High King by force because he was down from an extinct female line and thought he should have it. Henry VIII had a better claim as a direct descendant of Cunedda. His line was put in by force, but the Wales people were glad to accept Arthur as their Prince since they believed his reign would be Wales' last one and Herald the Triumph of Christ as He returned for His people. When Henry killed Arthur for the Throne, the people were saddened.

The eldest son of Cunedda was named Tybion. He was killed in battle. His eldest son was named Meirion. Meirion's uncles assigned him Meirionydd and took the rest of things for themselves. Their lines died out except for Dwegfyl's. That goes down in the male line to umpty thousand male Morgans all over the world. Meirion's line goes down to Bishop Morgan who translated the Holy Scriptures into Cymraeg. He either had one son or adopted his brother's son. Either way the line is assured. They are Wynn cousins. The Wynns made sure the good Bishop was educated and supported. Although those Morgans were poor, they were looked after.

There is an old prophecy in a very old book in the British Museum about the last King of Wales being named Ap Morgan.

I always like to remember that all of the children down from that original Morgan of Britain from the time before Christ's Birth are nobility of Britain as they have kept their marriages properly Christian. The extinct female lines are precious kinfolk. Most Heads of those families are barons or earls.

If the old Laws of Wales are followed to proclaim an Hereditary High King of Britain, the line of Coel Hen would be installed. Coel Hen's line is the direct line. He had sons who made their way nicely in the world. That line is the oldest genealogically traceable on earth. That line comes down from Abraham's old birthplace, Ur.

Bene Vale!

 

[Owain Caerlleon]

The Welsh Princes are descended from Ancient Tribal Aristocracies from before the Roman occupation, however most of the genealogies are corrupted tracing back to Beli Mawr an ancestor God figure. But the Mathrafal and Fferlys (Rhwng Gwy Y Hafren) dynasties both claim descent from Tenewan ap Lludd who minus Lludd aka Nodens another Celtic God (Lludd being inserted as influence from the Historia Regum Britanniae, damn you Geoffrey of Monmouth!) is the historical Catuvellaunian Warlord Tasciovanus.

Also the Powysian Dynasty never in fact was taken over by Rhodri Mawr and his son Merfyn's dynasty as we know a later King of Powys Cadell ap Brochwel (Maternal Grandfather of Cynfyn ap Gwerstan, ancestor of the House of Mathrafal) claims descent from Aeddan son of Cyngen who went to Rome and not Merfyn son of Rhodri, it is possible Rhodri invaded Powys and had placed his son on its throne however if so the Powysian Royal family were able to recover it.

Powys' founder was even the first properly known High King or more likely Governor after the Roman Occupation who was Vortigern who married Severa daughter of Magnus Maximus Emperor of the Western Roman Empire, thereby legitimising the transfer of power. It may have even been Vortigern who moved Cunedda from Manaw Gododdin to Gwynedd in a way mimicking Roman tactics.

It was also a Powysian Prince Owain Glyndwr who led the last attempt at an independent Wales, holding out quite long indeed.

I myself may be a relation of Owain Glyndwr due to a possible connection through paternal heritage all the way back to Prince Owain Brogyntyn natural but acknowledged son of Madog last King of the undivided Kingdom of Powys. I have taken a DNA test recently and are waiting on my results, If I am I might just step up and say "I'll be taking my place as Prince, move along Charlie your not needed anymore! XD"

 

[Owain Caerlleon]

My DNA test confirms I am of Brittonic stock. I through my ancestry have a paternal claim to the throne of Powys through Owain Brogyntyn. A claim through marriage for Powys Fadog through Glyndwr's sister Lowri, Powys Wenwynwyn through the Grey Lords of Powys and or the Lords of Mawddy, Deheubarth through Lowri's mother Elen daughter of Tomas Heir to Deheubarth, from Llewelyn the Great by marriage through the Talbots Earls of Shrewsbury, Morgannwg by marriage from descendants of Iestyn ap Gwrgant, Rhwng Gwy Y Hafren through marriage from descendants Cadwgan ap Elystan Glodrydd. And according to a pedigree of the Hughes of Gwerclas, through Elen ferch Tomas of Deheubarth a supposed descent from Llywelyn the Last himself, although that one is of course dubious.

So according to pedigrees from sources such as the Visitations, Peter Bartrum, Burke's peerage, Lewys Dwnn etc. I have a pretty good claim if I were to press it.

 

[Qutus123]

Aye, with the exception that there currently is a legitimate heir according to Welsh primogeniture to the Aberffraw legacy as the leading Royal Family of Wales.

According to Hurbert Lewis in "The Ancient Laws of Wales", (1889. Chapter VIII: Royal Succession; Rules to Marriage; Alienation pgs 192–200.) that though not explicitly codified as such, the edling, or Heir apparent, was by convention, custom, and practice the eldest son of the lord and entitled to inherit the position and title as "head of the family" from the father. Effectively primogeniture with local variations. However, all sons were provided for out of the lands of the father and in certain circumstances so too were daughters. Additionally, sons could claim maternal patrimony through their mother in certain circumstances. In the late 12th Century, the Lord Rhys, Prince of Deheubarth attempted to enforce an amendment to Welsh law practiced there by excluding children born out of wedlock, favouring those born in wedlock. However, The Lord Rhys' eldest illigitimate son proved too popular and the resulting succession war tore Deheubarth (West Wales) apart, for which the Anglo-Normans took advantage of. Llywelyn the Great of Gwynedd became Prince of Wales in 1216 after the exhausted Dinefwr rulers of Deheubarth swore fealty to him. Llywelyn the Great then introduced the same succession rule in for his succession, bypassing Gruffydd Goch [the Red] (eldest illigitimate son) in favour of Dafydd II.


And thus, according to Burke's Peerage and application of Welsh law, then the current heir to the Royal Family of Wales would be Evan Vaughan Anwyl of Tywyn (b. 1946) and his son David Evan (b. 1977). In the article I assume that absolute cognatic primogeniture would be the succession law in a Welsh consititution post independence.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely have great respect to QEII, Charles (whom I expect to take the regnal name George VII), Camilla, and William. But I simply wish for an independent Wales with its own restored monarchy.

So what would be the complete like of succession from Llewelyn the Great to Evan Vaughan Anwyl? If you know it and don’t mind typing it out of course.

 

[Ryan Davies]

Looks like theres quite a few of possibilties.

It's the first time I've ever actually seen a picture of Evan Anwyl. He doesn't look like I thought he would.

House of Aberffraw

 

[Cltjames]

House of Aberffraw

There is a new website as of last year (2022)...


Https://houseofaberffraw.org



The website is a simple breakdown about the House of Aberffraw and it's relation to the Kingdom of Gwynedd and the potential heirs who could essentially claim de jure Prince of Gwynedd title. There are 9 potential claimants, 6 Welsh (one half French), 2 Irish and 1 Englishman.

 

[cymru-crown]

Well we also need to look out for Oliver James Anwyl and his cousins Harri & Gareth Anwyl.
Their lineage has been traced back to the same line as Evan Anwyl and could pose a contest for the crown of Wales, should it ever return.

Oliver Anwyl is now living in Edinburgh and carries two ranks as Lord.