Royals Breaking Protocol

[BeatrixFan]

My comments were not a snipe at the Queen. The poor woman has to do as she's told. And on that occassion the Press wanted to see the theatre of Monarchy perform grief - and that's exactly what the Queen did. The Queen has cried in public, she's kissed her family in public and she's spoken of her love for her husband and children.

It's all about knowing one's place. If everyone knows what they should be doing and when the system works. The Queen is the expert at playing the system. She has more power than most give her credit for and I'm sure she could and has made her feelings quite plain on more that one occassion. But in that situation, she bowed to the press and she shouldn't have done.

 

[Skydragon]

The real reason for the Queen's actions after Diana's death was to ward off an angry spiteful vindictive lynch mob that was literally at the Palace Gates.
Such a lynch mob didn't deserve such a lovely Queen who for her whole life had sacrificed her own happiness for her country and had always carried out her duties with dignity and respect. I would not have blamed the Queen if she had decided the throne wasn't worth such a sacrifice if it was for such an ungrateful people and stepped down from her throne.
Luckily for us, the Queen is much more loyal to her people than they are to her and she stuck it out.

I just had to say what a brilliant, thought out post

 

[Elise27]

I think that the comparisons that have been made between the spanish and the british royal families are irrelevant. firstly, monarchies are political institutions in their countries and each country is different. Each country expects something different from their royal families, the british and spanish are quite different people and as such it shouldnt surprise anyone that their monarchies are different. Not only that, but they have very different histories, in a way the spanish royals have had to work their way in with the public as opposed to the british family which has a very long and almost uninterrupted history.
As far as the queen of england is concerned, I dont think that the queen does anything she does not want to do, certainly the so called men in the grey suits might suggest but ultimately she is the one that has to accept. I give her more credit than she is given, many pple seem to say that she really doesnt care what happens to ordinary people because she doesnt go out there and starts crying, but I'm sure the queen has emotions and feelings, when these tragedies happen you have to be very evil to not feel saddened by the suffering of others.
Take the whole situation with diana, the circumstances placed the queen and diana on opposing ends. the queen probably did not have much love for diana given the circumstances but she had to be really evil to not feel sorry for diana's premature and tragic death, or to not feel saddened because her grandchildren were suffering. I am sure that the queen was upset about diana's death if not because of diana herself, at least because of the loss her grandchildren had suffered and i dont think any of us can doubt how much the queen loves her grandchildren.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I have a dear friend who said that although she loathed Diana with a passion, when she died she did cry and she mourned. But not for Diana. For William, Harry and for Charles. I thought that was very telling.

 

[Elise27]

I have a dear friend who said that although she loathed Diana with a passion, when she died she did cry and she mourned. But not for Diana. For William, Harry and for Charles. I thought that was very telling.

Indeed---you have to be just completely inhumane to not feel sorry for two kids, which at the time william and harry still were, who have just lost a parent and especially a mother.

 

[Skydragon]

That's what people want from their royals: plenty of human interest, romance, lovely weddings, sweet babies and inspiration in times of crisis. Unfortunately, the British RF hasn't been able to provide much of all that in recent years.

A substantial amount of Brits do not want that from their Royals, they want decorum, reserve and stiff upper lip.

I don't need to see the Royals grief or to know every moment in their lives. It was shameful the way those young boys were dragged back from the seclusion of Balmoral, at the whim of the media and a hysterical mob, who would no doubt have protested if it had been their children subjected to the same treatment.

If people want to be touchy, feely - find a boyfriend, family, husband etc or if you don't have romance in your live, go and get a DVD.
No offence meant, just a personal reserved British perspective.

 

[Elise27]

If people want to be touchy, feely - find a boyfriend, family, husband etc or if you don't have romance in your live, go and get a DVD.
No offence meant, just a personal reserved British perspective.

hehehe, a dvd? thats a good one!

 

[azile]

Interesting to read this thread.... it seems that there is general acceptance for breaks of protocol if they are in the interests of showing compassion, humility, love etc. However, other breaks of protocol don't seem as acceptable to all of us.

Is it time to change what is "protocol"? Or do we like to see these "outbursts" in just special occasions? Do we expect these short visible signs of emotion?

This thread intrigues me greatly! I"m interested in responses to these questions.

Eliza

 

[laduchesse]

Did CP Mary break protocol at the Nytårskur event (Jan. 1)? Looking at pictures, when she and CP Frederick were entering the building they were walking side by side. Shouldn't she have been walking behind him? Actually, it also looked like Prince Henrik was walking side-by-side with the Queen too. I thought for official events, the "biological" royal took precedence over his/her spouse in terms of walking. Just curious.

 

[pollyemma]

A substantial amount of Brits do not want that from their Royals, they want decorum, reserve and stiff upper lip.
.

exactly! that's what makes them royal.

 

[Marengo]

Did CP Mary break protocol at the Nytårskur event (Jan. 1)? Looking at pictures, when she and CP Frederick were entering the building they were walking side by side. Shouldn't she have been walking behind him? Actually, it also looked like Prince Henrik was walking side-by-side with the Queen too. I thought for official events, the "biological" royal took precedence over his/her spouse in terms of walking. Just curious.

I assume they walk next to each other, unless it is to narrow, then the most senior royal takes precidence.

But what is protocol anyway? Does it actually excist? I remember Queen Juliana in an interview after her abdication awnsering a question of the interviewer about protocol. She almost spitted the word out of her mouth and went banging with her fists on the table, & stating that there is no such thing (Prince Bernhard could not hide his amusement btw).

 

[King Kong]

Hi Juanita!
Queen Paola (Belgium) almost always walks in front of King Albert but he tells her to do so or gestures her to stand at a certain place. Would that be "breaking protocol"? I don't think so since "disobeying" the king would be much more serious.
Besides, protocol has changed a lot in the last decades.
Cheers!
Martin

 

[carlota]

i guess royal protocol changes with time. it also happened in rabat, as i explained before, when sofia and juan carlos were on oficial visit and were received by king mohammed and his spouse salma. salma walked behind the guests and king mohammed and queen sofia told her to approach them, fact with which she didn't feel comfortable with. however, by the end of the visit both ladies were walking side by side and even holding hands or with sofia taking salma with her arm.
i think the walking side by side with other royal fact gives no problem. it's guests who are not royal who must walk behind them, obviously. i remember one of the last visits of the king and queen of spain, again, to argentina, when cristina de kirchner, spouse of the president of argentina, walked not only in front of the king and kirchner but in front of the queen of spain.

 

[Juanita]

Hi Juanita!
Queen Paola (Belgium) almost always walks in front of King Albert but he tells her to do so or gestures her to stand at a certain place. Would that be "breaking protocol"? I don't think so since "disobeying" the king would be much more serious.
Besides, protocol has changed a lot in the last decades.
Cheers!
Martin

Well, i read one a critique about that and the critique said that the Queen was breaking the protocol because she is a consort! But i also read that King Juan Carlos isn't upset because he doesn't mind!
And i think that isn't very important, there are many things more important than this and besides if they aren't upset to each other... And like you said... the protocolo has changed.

 

[King Kong]

Hi Juanita!
Yes, I agree with you!
I remember when Prince Albert of Belgium became king, both he and his wife were somewhere in the palace gardens, next to a bench. They walked to that bench and were about to sit down. Queen Paola was waiting for him to sit down first and he was waiting for her to do so, so for a while, neither of them sat down. Then he looked at her and with his hand, gestured her to sit down and sort of do away with protocol.
Breach of protocol or not, it was nice to see that for him, she was first.
Cheers!
Martin

 

[King Kong]

i guess royal protocol changes with time. it also happened in rabat, as i explained before, when sofia and juan carlos were on oficial visit and were received by king mohammed and his spouse salma. salma walked behind the guests and king mohammed and queen sofia told her to approach them, fact with which she didn't feel comfortable with. however, by the end of the visit both ladies were walking side by side and even holding hands or with sofia taking salma with her arm.
i think the walking side by side with other royal fact gives no problem. it's guests who are not royal who must walk behind them, obviously. i remember one of the last visits of the king and queen of spain, again, to argentina, when cristina de kirchner, spouse of the president of argentina, walked not only in front of the king and kirchner but in front of the queen of spain.

Hello Carlota!
Do you happen to remember when King Juan Carlos last visited Argentina? I live here and I can't recall him meeting the Kirchners.
Obviously I can be wrong so I'm asking this just out of curiosity.
Cheers!
Martin

 

[crisiñaki]

To me protocol is more about the relationship of royals with other RF, where to sit, who to invite, what to serve than the relationship between royal families and their people who are constantly changing with the times as the world itself does.

If you notice, some Kings let their wives walk first because they apply the rule of ladies first many times as happens in Belgium and Spain, in the last one, the King said that he didn't mind Sofi (as he calls her ) walk ahead of him because they are (with their kids & their families) one entity: the Crown not two people separated, he also said that he always think as we never as I because she's his companion, his consort and does a great job of representing their country.

And about the bombings in London, I guess people expected to see the whole RF helping people, visiting them in hospital, but where were Andrew, William (who's gonna be King some day ) and the rest of the Windsors? I think it shows the division inside the family and the fact that some of them are so busy running their own lives to care about their people.

Duty should always come first regardless of the situation, so that's why I admire the Spanish and Swedish because they were there for their people in their time of need; the Spanish heir and his sisters walk along Madrid while raining with their people to reject terrorism and that gesture won them much praise; Spain did an State Funeral for the victims, thing that's only reserved for Heads of State and they let the victims families into the cathedral and conforted them. The Swedish, specially the Kings and Victoria were there for the terrible tragedy of tsunami and still remember it as shown in the King's speech last Christmas.

 

[Juanita]

Hello Carlota!
Do you happen to remember when King Juan Carlos last visited Argentina? I live here and I can't recall him meeting the Kirchners.
Obviously I can be wrong so I'm asking this just out of curiosity.
Cheers!
Martin

What happen in that visit?
I'm curious...

 

[King Kong]

What happen in that visit?
I'm curious...

Hello Juanita!
Some "interesting" things happened during the Kirchners' visit to Spain as regards protocol. (Carlota was right, they did meet but in Spain)
Mrs Kirchner walked ahead of the King and Queen as they entered the Palacio de la Zarzuela, I think. Then, at one meeting we could see Mr Kirchner sitting down talking with President Zapatero and tapping the King on the arm. And there was another much commented gaffe I can't recall right now but I'll ask.
The sad part is that Mr Kirchner was representing the country and not just himself
Cheers!
Martin

 

[Juanita]

Hello Juanita!
Some "interesting" things happened during the Kirchners' visit to Spain as regards protocol. (Carlota was right, they did meet but in Spain)
Mrs Kirchner walked ahead of the King and Queen as they entered the Palacio de la Zarzuela, I think. Then, at one meeting we could see Mr Kirchner sitting down talking with President Zapatero and tapping the King on the arm. And there was another much commented gaffe I can't recall right now but I'll ask.
The sad part is that Mr Kirchner was representing the country and not just himself
Cheers!
Martin

Thank you for the explanation, Martin!

 

[lizz70]

Rania breaking protocol

I think the one that realy stands out for me was when Queen Rania went to meet Pope John Paul II dressed in a white outfit with a white mantilla!!!!!!

This is a privilege reserved only for the Catholic Queens, for example Sofia. Even other Christian Queens have to wear black when they visit the Vatican, so Rania should have worn black also.

I never understood why that mistake was made.

 

[Juanita]

I think the one that realy stands out for me was when Queen Rania went to meet Pope John Paul II dressed in a white outfit with a white mantilla!!!!!!

This is a privilege reserved only for the Catholic Queens, for example Sofia. Even other Christian Queens have to wear black when they visit the Vatican, so Rania should have worn black also.

I never understood why that mistake was made.

In a white outfit with a white mantilla?!?!?!?!?
Just Queen Paola and Queen Sofia can use it!!!
I can't believe that she did this!!

 

[Marengo]

Grand Duchess Marie-Therese of Luxembourg can use it as well, as can all the princesses of Savoy.

 

[Juanita]

Grand Duchess Marie-There of Luxembourg can use it as well, as can all the princesses of Savoy.

Thanks Marengo, i forgot them!
So, just Queen Sofia, Queen Paola, Grand Duchess Maria Teresa and all the princesses of Savoy can use it!

 

[lizz70]

In a white outfit with a white mantilla?!?!?!?!?
Just Queen Paola and Queen Sofia can use it!!!
I can't believe that she did this!!

Yes she did! There are photos of it somewhere but it was a BIG breach of protocol. It was quite early on maybe 1999, not sure of the date but what a big booboo!

 

[Humera]

No it wasn't a breach of protocol.
Queen Rania was allowed to wear gray (not white) because she was visiting the Pope at his summer residence (Castel Gandolfo) and NOT the Vatican.
http://www.geocities.com/jordanroyals/misc/pope/castelgandolfo1.jpg
It would be quite silly for a Queen to make such a huge mistake and risk a diplomatic disaster. All royals and heads of state have teams of people to ensure they dont make such serious mistakes.

 

[lizz70]

No it wasn't a breach of protocol.
Queen Rania was allowed to wear gray (not white) because she was visiting the Pope at his summer residence (Castel Gandolfo) and NOT the Vatican.
http://www.geocities.com/jordanroyals/misc/pope/castelgandolfo1.jpg
It would be quite silly for a Queen to make such a huge mistake and risk a diplomatic disaster. All royals and heads of state have teams of people to ensure they dont make such serious mistakes.

What???? You mean not make mistakes like at Felipe and Letizia's wedding for example??

 

[BeatrixFan]

We're talking about the time she met Pope John Paul II Humera, not the time she met Benedict XVI. She wore a white suit and a white mantilla - even Queen Elizabeth II isn't allowed to wear white and has to wear black.

 

[Humera]

I know, I posted the link in my post above. You can see Pope John Paul II in the picture. She's not wearing white.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Sorry, I misread. But I'm sure that was at the Vatican and not the summer residence. In any case, she should have worn black IMO.