Royals Breaking Protocol


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Did anyone mention how both Queen Elizabeth (Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon) and Queen Mary (Mary of Teck) broke the protocol by attending their child's coronation? I know that Mary of Teck did it to show support her son who never expected to become a monarch, but I don't know why Elizabeth decided to do it.
 
Why was it against to the protocol for mothers to attend the coronation ceremonies of their children?
 
Because crowned persons usually do not attend coronations of other persons. This is because the service usually includes a show of obeisance to the sovereign and kings and queens do not show each other obeisance as they are equals. A crowned queen or king could attend coronation of a pope, because pope is higher than king. That's why The Prince of Wales, the then Princess of Wales (Diana Spencer) and The Duke of Edinburgh attended the enthronement of The Emperor of Japan, but the The Queen didn't.
 
Thanks for the explanation!:flowers: According to Pikul, Dowager Empress Maria Fedorovna attended the coronation ceremony of Nicholas II, but she never bowed/paid obeisance to her son.
 
The Pope may be higher than a Catholic King but I am afraid I can't agree that he takes precedence over a Sovereign who does not owe him any loyalty e.e. EIIR.

Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother did not break protocol only tradition by attending HM's coronaton in 1953, she did make obeisance to The Queen when she arrived (though it wasn't a very deep curtsy).
 
How about Princess Mabel's outfit at Crown Princess Victoria's wedding? More a fashion error than a protocol breach?
 
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Fascinating thread. All protocol has its roots in tradition, and there's scarcely a tradition that is practiced from time immemorial.

Politeness, etiquette and politesse probably overlap with protocol, but protocol is closer to the word "regulations" than it is to the word "etiquette." The word itself doesn't enter English until the 16th century, and comes from the Latin, where its first use of course, had nothing to do with Catholicism. The Romans took the word from the Greek s(protokollan, original glue.

So protocoli change over time, which is why I personally find the study of both protocol and etiquette so interesting. I do not think wearing a long skirt to a morning wedding is a breach of protocol, but it is a breach of standard Euro-American etiquette. Etiquette (a French word, of course) comes into English later than protocoli. Etiquette is highly standardized in Europe by the early 19th century, which is probably when the wedding dress rules were formalized, although those rules are based on earlier ones. I can't remember when it was (during the Renaissance) that wearing white at weddings become popular, but I believe it was Italian Renaissance princesses/duchesses who popularized it (previously, black had been the color in many places; Eastern Europe often had a different code of color for events). It's fascinating just to think about how white has caught on as the official or preferred color for wedding dresses - relatively recently (and of course, not everywhere).

All cultures have etiquette of course, whether they have the word or not, but to me the word today means a specific system, which forbids wearing of certain garments at certain times of the day, if one is to be proper. I don't think such rules are ever supposed to be put on the wedding invitations, myself!

Protocol is, according to most standard definitions, internationally agreed upon etiquette for use in diplomatic situations. Diplomats, heads of state and others are supposed to know and follow it, but I wonder if Queen Rania really has an on-staff expert on Western protocol.

I believe that if royals and others don't follow protocol and etiquette, their status is diminished, and probably more so than by almost anything else they might do. Naturally, younger royals aren't forever besmirched by breaches, but older royals really do have to teach and model the rules (it seems there are so many).

If a senior royal decides to modify a rule of etiquette (or even protocol), that's precisely how etiquette changes. Future monarchs either will or won't bow/curtsy at funeral corteges of those who are not monarchs; there will probably be opportunities to observe this in our lifetimes.

I believe that protocol changes only when heads of more than one state agree upon it, but that may be the personal spin I put on the word.

And, since we have no reigning royals in the countries where I spend most of my time, let me add that heads of state are not merely royals - but they should follow protocol as well.

And have manners.
 
All cultures have etiquette of course, whether they have the word or not, but to me the word today means a specific system, which forbids wearing of certain garments at certain times of the day, if one is to be proper. I don't think such rules are ever supposed to be put on the wedding invitations, myself!

Do you mean that Dresscodes shouldn't be put on wedding invitations per se, or only not on royal invitations? or do you mean something else? How about the RSVP?
 
Heads of state have equal status and they should not attend their counterparts' coronations or enthronements, but in the case of recently widowed former queen consorts, this rule does not apply. George VI was his mother's Sovereign and Elizabeth II was The Queen Mother's Sovereign too, so they were entitled and obliged by protocol to show their allegiance. They were crowned as consorts and not as reigning monarchs!
 
How about Princess Mabel's outfit at Crown Princess Victoria's wedding? More a fashion error than a protocol breach?
I think something happened to the dress she had planned to wear at the wedding and she had to do the best she could with what she had at hand or not attend the wedding service at all. It would have been more of a protocol breach not to attend I guess.
 
I think something happened to the dress she had planned to wear at the wedding and she had to do the best she could with what she had at hand
So Mabel at the Swedish CP wedding had men's pants, a torn ballet skirt and a corsage top at hand and just wore everything together? You're kidding Meraude, right?:ROFLMAO:
The designers of this avantgarde catastrophe worn in the wrong place, Viktor & Rolf, probably wouldn't be amused.
 
How about Princess Mabel's outfit at Crown Princess Victoria's wedding? More a fashion error than a protocol breach?
Yes, probably more reflective of her taste than anything else.
 
Because in marriages that are realized carried through on the morning the women have to use a short skirt and, generally, hat.
What do you mean by short? I don't think I have eve seen a royal in a mini skirt.
 
Short (day dress) as opposed to wearing a gown for women, mourning suit, uniform or business suit as opposed to white tie or gala uniform for men.
 
HM The Queen and the Obamas

I remember the international hoopla over the fact that Michelle Obama touched HM The Queen while they were at Buckingham Palace a year or two ago. I thought it was rather nice actually, especially since the Queen returned the gesture.
 
I remember the international hoopla over the fact that Michelle Obama touched HM The Queen while they were at Buckingham Palace a year or two ago. I thought it was rather nice actually, especially since the Queen returned the gesture.

What makes toucing the queen a big deal? She is not God or anything special, except by their own made rules.
 
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What makes touching the queen a big deal? She is not God or anything special, except by their own made rules.
I think you completely fail to understand the Queen's point of view. By virtue of the work she does, she meets and greets all manner of people in their hundreds. She shakes hands with perfect strangers. Preserving the basic dictates of what has now be identified as "Personal Space" is not only good manners, but it is essential.
Wikipeadia said:
The notion of personal space was introduced by Edward T. Hall, who created the concept of proxemics. In his book, The Hidden Dimension (1966), he describes the subjective dimensions that surround each person and the physical distances they try to keep from other people, according to subtle cultural rules.[1]
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPersonal_space&ei=FLiwToOcKOjSiAKy45QY&usg=AFQjCNH3UJVyjadonbhKIvhkwYy2pkeF7w&sig2=jGRzod0uLaawzaAM2kZTWQhttp://
Most ordinary people function on the concept of "Personal Space" and in the case of Michelle Obama, not only did she invade the Queen's personal space, she invaded her "Intimate Space". She was a complete stranger to the Queen, she had never met her nor even spoken to her, yet she had the incredibly bad manners to put her arm around her, like she was a small child or best friend. How incredibly gauche and what an incredible breech of protocol!

What the h**l was she thinking? No, the Queen is not God, nor have we "made" her one by our own rules, but she is special and as such deserves to be treated with respect and Michelle Obama breeched both etiquette and protocol. The Queen, as is her habit, smoothed the situation by returning the "favour".

Not everyone is "touchy feely", some people hug anyone, others friends and family and others hardly touch at all. Even when Sharing the Peace in Church one needs to remember who likes a handshake and who hates to be hugged!

The BRF, like most every other royal families, have protocol. We have good manners!
 
Royals making protocol mistakes

are there any anecdotes of royals breaking protocol and etiquette unconsciously / when not intending to?
 
The President of the United States had to put on the table his champaign congratulation glass because the God Save the Queen started.
 
What makes toucing the queen a big deal? She is not God or anything special, except by their own made rules.

I think that touching and embracing someone you don't know fairly well is very rude..
 
Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway curtsied to President Obama. It was a nice gesture, however, as she is royal, there was no need to curtsey even though he was a head of state.
 
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