Relationships between Members of the Spanish Royal Family

[Menarue]

I was very disappointed that Isabel Sartorius didn´t marry Felipe. In fact I am still disappointed, I think that he should have, at least, chosen an aristocrat. I have never heard that Princess Letizia´s family were well to do bankers, I have read that her maternal grandmother had something to do with radio or television and her paternal grandfather was a taxi driver.

 

[Odette]

I do not want to get off the subject here but Letizia's parents are not well to do Bankers. Her maternal grandfather was a taxi driver. Her paternal family are journalists of different sorts. Her mother I believe is in nursing and Letizia started as a reporter and ended up reading the evening news.

Her parent's divorce was definitely not the main reason. Maria-Carolina de Borbon y Parma had been invited by JC and Sofia for the marriage meetings with Felipe and her parents were divorced.
Felipe was still young and not ready for the marriage when he was with Isabel. Later in life, Isabel became a single mother with a daugher born out of wedlock (she has never been married) in 1997, afterwards Felipe was no longer interested.

I am very sorry but I find your remarks about Isabel mean spirited. The fact remains however that Felipe was deeply in love with her.

 

[Winnie]

I am very sorry but I find your remarks about Isabel mean spirited. The fact remains however that Felipe was deeply in love with her.

That Felipe was deeply in love is something ONLY he himself knows. Others, especially those of us that don't know him personally, can only "fish". You cannot just go by newspapers -- you know how they love to lie with half truths. I am sure that Letizia is now reaping the rewards for this past exploits.
The fact remains now that he isn't in love with Isabel anymore -- so it is water under the bridge. I would love to have a dollar for every time a young man fell in and out of "love" in his lifetime. Life usually turns out for the best in the long run and I think that his present marriage suits him.

Just think about our own lives. I cringe when I think about the men I thought I wanted to marry (madly in love) and what a devastated life I would have endured if I had.

 

[grevinnan]

Felipe has obviously found the women of his dreams - and his soulmate. I don't think all the thousands of photos showing him and Letizia together can be wrong. The spontaneous reaction at the soccer game a few days ago is a very telling picture of how they feel about each other. There are probably many people we all could have married and had a good marriage. But sometime you are lucky and find the person that makes your marriage spectacular. Some people are just lucky in waiting and or finding that one perfect partner.

 

[donnaK]

I am very sorry but I find your remarks about Isabel mean spirited. The fact remains however that Felipe was deeply in love with her.

Mean spirited ????? What did I say wrong ? Being in love doesn't mean there was a marriage on horizon since Felipe hadn't finished his study, he was not ready for a marriage at that time, that had been said by the royal insiders on TV many times. By the way, anyone in Spain who followed the royals a little knows that Isabel has never been married, that was even confirmed by herself in an interview.

 

[Marengo]

Please note that this thread is about the relations between members of the Spanish Royal Family. The discussion about true love for Isabel Sartorius does not belong in this thread, but I suppose there should be a thread around that deals with her, so maybe you all can take the discussion there.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Please note that this thread is about the relations between members of the Spanish Royal Family. The discussion about true love for Isabel Sartorius does not belong in this thread, but I suppose there should be a thread around that deals with her, so maybe you all can take the discussion there.

Sorry Marengo, it's my fault! I was really curious about the Sartorius issue and didn't have a clue where to ask my question, so I came here.

I apologize.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK
It's well known that the King would not let his 'commoner' in laws tag along any official holidays or official trips.

I think this is the most important sentence here. The King is in charge of everything and not allowing commoner in-laws to attend official holidays or to stay at official residences are only a few indications that he is not fond of any commoner relation within his family. Whenever he has to pose with commoner in-laws or even commoner family members, he does a bear it and grin and makes himself look so much out of place within this company that he could well be photoshopped into the pic (best example is Leonor's christening - the look on his face speaks volumes).

I don't believe a second that both King and Queen were fond of their son's decision to marry Letizia - IMO today the King respects Letizia in her function, as PoA and future Queen but this is where it ends. Apart from looking photoshopped into pictures where Letizia or her family are co-protagonists he does not show any true affection towards his daughter in law and the two most powerful gestures I can recall were at F&L's wedding where he snubbed Paloma and preferred to walk to church with his sister and his delayed arrival at Ruber Hospital when Letizia gave birth to Sofia - he only bothered to show up a few days later. At least for me the bottom line is that JC only cares about about the institution and the survival of the Borbons on the Spanish throne and nothing but. Of course he loves his children (his daughters are closest to his heart plus Felipe as heir and Leonor as heiress presumptive) but the rest is pretty much Sofia's job. Her last service to the monarchy would be the balance act to a) integrate Letizia to the degree that everybody gets along more or less ok but I don't believe she was successful in creating true affections within the family and to b) convince the spanish public of Letizia's quality as future Queen of Spain and I believe there is still a long way to go. I think that the relationship of Letizia and the Queen is good on a personal and professional level but I doubt it's anywhere near the sugary "mother & daughter" relationship some people like to interprete into pictures. I have utmost respect for Queen Sofia for always putting duty first and making personal sacrifices for the sake of the survival of the institution - JC owes a lot to her. I seriously doubt Letizia will walk the line as much as Sofia has always done in case Felipe will transform into a younger JC once the kids have grown up and the marriage will face new challenges or even be reduced to a more or less professional level.

 

[Menarue]

Duke of M. You are spot on. Queen Sofia, loves her son and will do anything for him that she can, even accept his choice for a wife. The Spanish Royal family have always been very close. The Count of Barcelona and his wife were very loving parents but I don´t think they would have approved of their grandson marrying someone not royal. No problem with the girls but when the Borbon dynasty is at stake then that would come first. King Juan Carlos made the perfect choice for his Queen of Spain and I admire her tremendously. Now she is trying very hard to be the glue that sticks this generation of royal family together. I hope that she succeeds.

 

[donnaK]

Duke, it's true that the Kings prefered all their 3 children marrying royals, then the parents of the other CPs in Europe also did. Infanta Sofia was born during a long weekend and JC was out of town. The King didn't even make it to the hospital to see Cristina after Irene was born, yeh, he loves his daughters so much more than his daughter-in-law (big deal, just like most parents). I don't see any reason why JC should have walked with Paloma at the wedding of F&L, it didn't happen in any other royal wedding either. The marriage of JC and Sofia would not have survived today's media if they now were the CP couple of Spain IMO. I'm sure there are people in Spain who don't like Letizia, but there is no proof that this is the majority, quite the contract to what you said, majorities do believe she qualifies to be a successor to Sofia. Of course, she is different from Sofia, but she also has her advantage of being a Spanish woman.
Catango, I agree with you that Felipe had never appeared so cheerful, friendly and communicative before Letizia. For people who had met him at the Sydney Olympics, he appeared rather aloof, distant, not so friendly.
Guido, nobody here had said that Felipe had never been happy at any moment of his life before Letizia or with his exes, but there is this difference between escaping to a foreign land to feel happy/relaxed and happily embracing his royal duties and his people in Spain, even his (or Letizia's) distractors in the Spanish media admitted this difference.

 

[Menarue]

I think that King JC puts up with Letizia because she is his son´s wife but that doesn´t mean he has to put up with her family.

 

[Odette]

Duke of M. You are spot on. Queen Sofia, loves her son and will do anything for him that she can, even accept his choice for a wife. The Spanish Royal family have always been very close. The Count of Barcelona and his wife were very loving parents but I don´t think they would have approved of their grandson marrying someone not royal. No problem with the girls but when the Borbon dynasty is at stake then that would come first. King Juan Carlos made the perfect choice for his Queen of Spain and I admire her tremendously. Now she is trying very hard to be the glue that sticks this generation of royal family together. I hope that she succeeds.

Menarue DoM I agree with everything that you both said, If we go a generation before when JC was in love with the Italian Princess before he met P Sofia........He was not allowed to marry her because she was not a member of a reigning family. He had however, to accept his children's choices and it falls on Q Sofia to "keep it all together". I agree that Q Sofia is not the person who will make Letizia a "best friend" but she will do all she can to show a unified front. She is a professional. Hopefully Letizia will learn from her how to become a true Queen when her turn comes.

 

[Odette]

I think that King JC puts up with Letizia because she is his son´s wife but that doesn´t mean he has to put up with her family.

I truly believe that this goes for all the Kings and Queens who had to accept their commoner daughters in law........I still believe that the whole institution of Monarchy is changing and it may even become obsolete in another generation or two.

 

[lula]

A thing is the public function and other different the personal relations.

The King belongs to a certain generation raised in a certain Spain and with another way of thinking ... only from this point of view some of his personal attitudes are acceptable or understandable. The same thing happens with the Queen, in her case, probably the priority was and it is enclosed over the Wreath, the future her children and her grandchildren. For the Spanish educated in the last 30 years, the attitude of him is not acceptable and of her it is not exemplary. Even for their own children be like that...

On the Queen and the Princess, I believe that they are contributed very much mutually. The Queen can teach things to the Princess in all that in relation with her public role, but I believe that in personal the Princess can contribute very much the Queen. The Queen has a relatively solitary life, if we exempt her sister Irene and her cousin Tatiana, scarcely one sees her to have relation with friends, the relation with her sisters-in-law is small, and neither she shares the exits of the King with his friends... the Princess and the girls must be a good company for her.

 

[Odette]

Lula. When Sarah Ferguson joined the BRF there was talk that the Queen enjoyed her company a lot because Fergie would talk to her about the "outside world" which the Queen was not familiar with, and she found the details interesting and amusing. This may also be happening with the Queen and Letizia if Letizia still keeps in touch with the "outside world"
There is no doubt things have changed and ideas evolve. My personal issue is that there are some institutions that "updating" and "modernization" bring them to the level of the common man and as a result, they lose their luster, mystique or whatever kept them there in the first place. Monarchy and religion are two such institutions. This is my own humble opinion. The Spaniards will have the last say of course.

 

[lula]

The Queen Sofia is not the Queen Elisabeth, I do not believe that it is necessary that her daughter-in-law comments on things to her " of the exterior world ". I think more that the Queen has one more company, to part of her sister, another woman in house, with which she can share interests.They share many official activities, but also they live closely, and often they work at the same building.

 

[donnaK]

The Queen Sofia is not the Queen Elisabeth, I do not believe that it is necessary that her daughter-in-law comments on things to her " of the exterior world ". I think more that the Queen has one more company, to part of her sister, another woman in house, with which she can share interests.They share many official activities, but also they live closely, and often they work at the same building.

True, the friendship between Sofia and Letizia goes beyond 'amusing things of the outside world', they both share the same interests at literature and arts (Sofia herself is quite different from the Borbon women), even do the Pilates together.

 

[Odette]

True, the friendship between Sofia and Letizia goes beyond 'amusing things of the outside world', they both share the same interests at literature and arts (Sofia herself is quite different from the Borbon women), even do the Pilates together.

How do we know this? A queen like Q. Sofia ? She was raised and educated in a German school, has always been reputed to be on the serious, rigid side, turned 60 years old to see her son marry a commoner and she turned into a bosom buddy with her daughter in law?
I have nothing against Letizia, I actually cannot figure her out. She however, married into the royal family, gave them two children and I hope she will always be happy. However, I have a hard time believing that Q Sofia will turn into her friend and do Pilates with her...... I am sure they have a cordial, civilised relationship but I cannot believe these two ladies are too close in private.

 

[donnaK]

How do we know this? A queen like Q. Sofia ? She was raised and educated in a German school, has always been reputed to be on the serious, rigid side, turned 60 years old to see her son marry a commoner and she turned into a bosom buddy with her daughter in law?
I have nothing against Letizia, I actually cannot figure her out. She however, married into the royal family, gave them two children and I hope she will always be happy. However, I have a hard time believing that Q Sofia will turn into her friend and do Pilates with her...... I am sure they have a cordial, civilised relationship but I cannot believe these two ladies are too close in private.

It was everywhere on the press during Letizia's pregnancy with Leonor. It was Queen's biographer said that they shared the same interest at literature and arts. All those articles were posted on this board before.

 

[donnaK]

I think that King JC puts up with Letizia because she is his son´s wife but that doesn´t mean he has to put up with her family.

The King also has other concerns on the possible accusation of the media and public on his in-laws' families taking adavange of the public money. Anyway, the rumors on Letizia not allowing Cristina's in-laws staying at the official residence is completely baseless since the King would not have allowed this to happen at the first place.

 

[Odette]

It was everywhere on the press during Letizia's pregnancy with Leonor. It was Queen's biographer said that they shared the same interest at literature and arts. All those articles were posted on this board before.

Isn't is strange that when the press comes up with some news we do not like we call them yellow press/trash etc but when it is something good we quote it over and over?
Again, I am not privy to their relationship and it takes a bit more for me to believe the Pilates story. The fact that some papers mentioned it, does not make it true. Same when they mention negative news.

 

[Menarue]

I don´t think there is much for Queen Sofia to learn about the common world from Letizia.
When she married JC he was a prince who perhaps, and at the time it was a big perhaps, would one day be King of Spain. There was his father in front of him at that time. Both JC´s sisters led very normal lives, one a nurse at a hospital in Lisbon and the other had a very normal life for a royal princess, did her own shopping, did charity work and gave lessons at a school for the blind. They all led a very simple life and were seen round and about where they lived and were very accessible. It may seem strange but the person to introduce a more normal life to Queen Sofia would have benn her husband and sisters-in-law not Letizia so many years later.

 

[donnaK]

Isn't is strange that when the press comes up with some news we do not like we call them yellow press/trash etc but when it is something good we quote it over and over?
Again, I am not privy to their relationship and it takes a bit more for me to believe the Pilates story. The fact that some papers mentioned it, does not make it true. Same when they mention negative news.

I have never called the stories from the royal insiders (ex. Queen's biographer, or a royal insider called Mariangel Alcarza who tranvelled with the royals, or other senior royal correspondants, Jaime Penafiel was an exception since he had been excluded from Zarzuela long before Letizia) yellow press or trash. How could Queen's biographer be trashy ? Plus I never really care if Sofia and Letizia have a true friendship or not as long as they have a respectful working relation (I don't think I can survive living next door to my mother-in-law and working at the same building with her). Just as lula said, getting along well with Letizia also benefits the Queen too since she has no other friends in Spain than her own sister Irene.

 

[Odette]

If I remember correctly the Queen's biographer wrote her book way before Letizia came into the picture. Penafiel wrote some stories that were hotly disputed by some.
It is good for Q. Sofia to have friends besides her sister. It is also true that she has two daughters who live in Spain, one of who is in Madrid and who definitely needs her mother since her separation.
It is lovely that Q Sofia knows how to put her past reservations behind her and show in public a smiling warm friendship towards Letizia.
The point that I am trying to make is that the stories about the warm and fuzzy feelings the Queen and Letizia share have not won me over yet. I am glad you believe what some reporters say, perhaps I have a harder time perhaps I do not have as much interest, perhaps there is a PR campaign going on. Who truly knows?

 

[Menarue]

The King also has other concerns on the possible accusation of the media and public on his in-laws' families taking adavange of the public money. Anyway, the rumors on Letizia not allowing Cristina's in-laws staying at the official residence is completely baseless since the King would not have allowed this to happen at the first place.

I don´t know about this, Letizia might have thought that it would be natural for her family to stay with her future in-laws, but the same goes for Infanta Cristina as for her father, she may have to welcome her brother´s wife but she wouldn´t have to put up with her family. There was a rumour about Letizia´s mother getting some royal house, but I haven´t heard anything more about that so it might just have been a rumour.
I don´t think that Letizia´s family are the kind of people that the the royal family would normally mix with on a social level, but I don´t believe that Queen Sofia doesn´t have friends in Spain besides her sister, I am sure she has many friends but I am also sure that she is very much aware of her position as the Queen of Spain and royal protocol.

 

[Redferns]

I wonder why Sofia has no friend....

 

[Menarue]

I wonder why Sofia has no friend....

I just don´t believe this and I think you shouldn´t even to bother wondering about it.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It was everywhere on the press during Letizia's pregnancy with Leonor. It was Queen's biographer said that they shared the same interest at literature and arts. All those articles were posted on this board before.

I don't go for the gossip pilates story either and one doesn't have to be the Queen's biographer to figure out that they share the same interest at literature and arts. Queen Sofia is not the type of woman who will entrust her daughter in law with her most intimate thoughts or darkest secrets but will share everything with her that will benefit Letizia's current and future role. Both women are professional and make the best of a situation that is non-negotiable. Felipe has made his choice and everyone has to live with it in good and bad times, the SRF are used to walk the line therefore I believe Letizia has the hardest part of all by becoming part of a system that does not adapt to her but forces her to adapt. If the spanish monarchy will fail because the CP couple is not up to the challenge Queen Sofia will probably consider herself as failed.

 

[Menarue]

Bravo! Duke of Marmalade. That is exactly right.

 

[magnik]

I wonder why Sofia has no friend....

How could you now that? Just because they aren't almost non photos of her with her friends?
She has her sister Princess Irene, Princess Tatiana Radziwiłł and why not Letizia?