Princess Madeleine & Family Moving to Florida: August 2018

[JR76]

Yes, there is dissonance in the public statements explaining the assorted moves.



Does it sound to you from her statement that the decision not to leave Miami is a final one, or only for the time being?



But what about the status of her children in relation to public appearances? For instance, if Princess Leonore is removed from the succession but returns to Sweden in adulthood, will the door be open to her to perform reimbursed engagements in the same way that Prince Alexander and Prince Gabriel might?

The statement seems carefully worded to say that the family live in Miami for the foreseeable future, but that nothing definite has been decided.
Regarding the line of succession et al the court has, as you know, itself said that they interpret the constitutional requirement that heirs are raised in Sweden as that they have to get a Swedish education. For them to backtrack now would only seem silly to me.
If the children of Princess Madeleine aren't in the line of succession they can't ever be reimbursed from the appanage.
Added to that, even if the inquiry by the Constitutional assembly has seemingly stalled at the moment, the writing on the wall is that in the future only the monarch, the heir, their spouses and maybe some of the other children of the monarch on part time will perform reimbursed engagements.

 

[Somebody]

That is a very good question. It seems Chris's business affairs that could not be handled in wilds of Stockholm, Sweden, necessitating a move to London, a prominent European business centre and are now easily handled in the busthigh business metropolis of Miami Florida.

The reasons/excuses given were never believable. It seems down to personal preference (although the why of the move from the US to Sweden remains a mystery - leaving Sweden not so much; clearly Chris did not like the 'public role' that came with it (which I fully understand)) and Chris' job has been used as an excuse. In general, their communication about the various moves has been inconsistent and vague; probably Chris and Madeleine have been trying to figure out for years what they truly want(ed) - or are not entirely on the same page.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The statement seems carefully worded to say that the family live in Miami for the foreseeable future, but that nothing definite has been decided.
Regarding the line of succession et al the court has, as you know, itself said that they interpret the constitutional requirement that heirs are raised in Sweden as that they have to get a Swedish education. For them to backtrack now would only seem silly to me.
If the children of Princess Madeleine aren't in the line of succession they can't ever be reimbursed from the appanage.

Thanks.
Yes, I agree in regard to the succession; I was unsure if a place in the line of succession (or being married to a member of the line of succession) was a precondition for reimbursement from the apanage. Is this established by law, custom, or simply the attitude of the general public?

Added to that, even if the inquiry by the Constitutional assembly has seemingly stalled at the moment, the writing on the wall is that in the future only the monarch, the heir, their spouses and maybe some of the other children of the monarch on part time will perform reimbursed engagements.

If you, or any other posters who are in agreement, would expand on "the writing on the wall" regarding official roles or the lack thereof for the children of Carl Philip and Madeleine respectively, I would be interested.

 

[LadyFinn]

The reasons/excuses given were never believable. It seems down to personal preference (although the why of the move from the US to Sweden remains a mystery - leaving Sweden not so much; clearly Chris did not like the 'public role' that came with it (which I fully understand)) and Chris' job has been used as an excuse. In general, their communication about the various moves has been inconsistent and vague; probably Chris and Madeleine have been trying to figure out for years what they truly want(ed) - or are not entirely on the same page.

I agree. When they moved to London, it was said that it was because of Chris's work. And when they moved to Florida, Thorgren said "They move to Florida because it's a good starting point for Chris's business..." And whole this time Wilton Payments has had offices both in Florida (started in 2013, it seems) and in London. And when Madeleine and Chris lived in New York, Chris took care of the business of the Florida office as he does now.

Regarding the line of succession et al the court has, as you know, itself said that they interpret the constitutional requirement that heirs are raised in Sweden as that they have to get a Swedish education. For them to backtrack now would only seem silly to me.

I agree. The Marshal of the Realm Svante Lindqvist said when Leonore was born that she should be raised and have her education in Sweden. So it would be very strange if the court would now interpret that otherwise.
It will be interesting to see if the press is starting to put pressure on the court with questions about Madeleine's children's future and if they will stay in the order of succession.

 

[SLV]

My guess is that while Victoria&Daniel only had Estelle. Madeleine's children were needed for future duties. And therefor needed to be raised in Sweden in order to be able to do so. Now that her brother has two children to take up that future task, that neccesity has disappeared. And they can live where they want.
As for not settling in one spot. My guess is that many buisinessman-families travel the world following where the job takes them.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I agree. The Marshal of the Realm Svante Lindqvist said when Leonore was born that she should be raised and have her education in Sweden. So it would be very strange if the court would now interpret that otherwise.
It will be interesting to see if the press is starting to put pressure on the court with questions about Madeleine's children's future and if they will stay in the order of succession.

Although I indeed would not expect the court to backtrack on the legal interpretation, I do wonder if there will be a published announcement that Leonore has lost her place in the succession - and her rights to a future appanage and public duties - if the media keep silent about those questions. In many instances in other royal families changes to the order of succession, appanage, or duties have happened without a published announcement.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

My guess is that while Victoria&Daniel only had Estelle. Madeleine's children were needed for future duties. And therefor needed to be raised in Sweden in order to be able to do so. Now that her brother has two children to take up that future task, that neccesity has disappeared. And they can live where they want.
As for not settling in one spot. My guess is that many buisinessman-families travel the world following where the job takes them.

I think this is an important point. Not that many years ago, Leonore was 5th in the line of succession and one of only two grandchildren of the King. Now Leonore is 8th- with 4 cousins ahead of her in the line of succession. The birth of Oscar and Carl Phillip’s children gave the O’Neill family more options.

And here is a big benefit —since the family has lived in Florida, they have avoided the paparazzi that followed them in New York & London. A definite plus.

 

[Frelinghighness]

my thoughts exactly. Also,when there was only Estelle, the King was understandably nervous considering his own history

 

[Mari-Anne]

I think Madeleine and Chris are very wise to raise their children so that they would get good education. This way they would be well prepared to work for their money on their choosen profession, and thus not depend on someone else's appenage/allowance.

By the time Leonore and her siblings are adults, finished their Universities, then Sweden already have Queen Victoria and then more likely the representation duties will be kept within Victoria's family. So even more reason not to depend on the "charity" of others.

Whether or not Leonor and her siblings should be removed from the line of succession...I do not get the fuss or need for the press to put the pressure on the court to make the decision hurridly. They are the grandchildren of Swedish King but likelihood of them ascending the throne one day...its zero now that there are more children after Estelle. Or do they get some income/advantages from being in the line and having the title? If the "eligibility" depends on where someone went to school, was raised, then so be it. The first monarch from the House of Bernadotte was born in France and no problem with that. Or has Queen Silvia done bad job as the spouse of The King even thought she was not raised/educated in Sweden?

Personally I hope that they will return to Sweden next Autumn. Like its been said before many families travel abroad because of their jobs but I hope Madeleine miss Sweden too much and she and Chris will find enough to do to get involved in Sweden. And if to believe Swedish gossip press, then their marriage is on the rocks, has been for years
[Any wonder why they enjoy anonymity of Florida and chance to be away from the nasty gossip press ]

 

[LadyFinn]

And here is a big benefit —since the family has lived in Florida, they have avoided the paparazzi that followed them in New York & London. A definite plus.

They weren't photographed so much in London. And I have seen photos of them in Miami at least from five different occasions.

Whether or not Leonor and her siblings should be removed from the line of succession...I do not get the fuss or need for the press to put the pressure on the court to make the decision hurridly.

There is less than a year to make the decision of Leonore's schoolstart, and when the decision is made, is should tell us if Leonore is still in the line of succession. And a year goes very quickly. Of course the press is interested in this matter.

 

[Mari-Anne]

They weren't photographed so much in London. And I have seen photos of them in Miami at least from five different occasions.

There is less than a year to make the decision of Leonore's schoolstart, and when the decision is made, is should tell us if Leonore is still in the line of succession. And a year goes very quickly. Of course the press is interested in this matter.

There seemed to be loads of photos from London but there are rarely any pictures of them from Miami.
As to Leonore...it appears some expect or even insist that she'd be waived off from the line of succesion rather sooner than later Why its so important?

There may not even come any official announcement in case they do decide to permanently settle down in Florida [I believe its not 100% confirmed right now?] and the children will loose their place. E.g in Denmark its unclear when exactly princess Benedikte's children lost their place in the line of succession. Or whether their descendants will have sucession right if raised in Denmark. There were no official announcement from the court? No pressure from the Danish press? Why these constant expectations in Madeleine's case? Or what will happen when the decision will be made next year but the family will move back e.g when Adrienne starts the school?

 

[tommy100]

I think its far to premature to expect a statement. To be honest even when Leonore starts school does that mean she is no longer in the line of succession, I mean does one or two years at the start if they then move and she does the vast majority of her schooling in Sweden count against or not?

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

My guess is that while Victoria&Daniel only had Estelle. Madeleine's children were needed for future duties. And therefor needed to be raised in Sweden in order to be able to do so. Now that her brother has two children to take up that future task, that neccesity has disappeared. And they can live where they want.
As for not settling in one spot. My guess is that many buisinessman-families travel the world following where the job takes them.

I agree. Whilst it'd be nice for Madeleine and Chris to be based in Sweden; now that there's no longer such a demand for them and their children in terms of succession matters, they're free to have a more independent lifestyle.

 

[Alisa]

Then would they not have to give up their style and titles?
Hope the family is away from the South Florida area and hurricane Dorian!

 

[Sarahbellar]

They weren't photographed so much in London. And I have seen photos of them in Miami at least from five different occasions.

They were photographed monthly- if not weekly- in London. Here are the dates I have recorded for March 2017 alone.
4 March 2017
6 March 2017
7 March 2017
13 March 2017
15 March 2017
19 March 2017
20 March 2017
28 March 2017

 

[Mbruno]

I think its far to premature to expect a statement. To be honest even when Leonore starts school does that mean she is no longer in the line of succession, I mean does one or two years at the start if they then move and she does the vast majority of her schooling in Sweden count against or not?

It may be premature, but , if the family has already decided that they won’t move back to Sweden permanently and that Leonor and her siblings will do most of their schooling ( if not all of it) in the US, I see no point in delaying a statement either.

The longer this uncertainty drags on , the worse it will be for the kids. It is better to take them out of the line of succession now and give them some courtesy style of Prince/Princess xxx Bernadotte ( without the HRH or ‘of Sweden’).

 

[O-H Anglophile]

It may be premature, but , if the family has already decided that they won’t move back to Sweden permanently and that Leonor and her siblings will do most of their schooling ( if not all of it) in the US, I see no point in delaying a statement either.

The longer this uncertainty drags on , the worse it will be for the kids. It is better to take them out of the line of succession now and give them some courtesy style of Prince/Princess xxx Bernadotte ( without the HRH or ‘of Sweden’).

Maybe the O'Neill family has not yet decided for sure where they plan to live long term.

At the children's ages currently, there is nothing effecting the children. I am sure the children are unaware of the line of succession and as Leonore is 8th and her siblings are 9th and 10th, it really is not an issue that seems pressing.

 

[Queen Claude]

It may be premature, but , if the family has already decided that they won’t move back to Sweden permanently and that Leonor and her siblings will do most of their schooling ( if not all of it) in the US, I see no point in delaying a statement either.

The longer this uncertainty drags on , the worse it will be for the kids. It is better to take them out of the line of succession now and give them some courtesy style of Prince/Princess xxx Bernadotte ( without the HRH or ‘of Sweden’).

Really??? I think the uncertainty is bothering certain royal watchers more than the royals themselves.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Really??? I think the uncertainty is bothering certain royal watchers more than the royals themselves.

LoL completely agree. The kids don't care one way or another. If they are raised and educated in the US then you will have your answer without a statement being needed. Either way there is a long line ahead of them for succession so the O'Neil's are more free to do what they like. And if the paparazzi issue is dying down then more power to them.

 

[Kaatje]

How does it work for royals to move to a foreign country such as is the case here? Foreign spouses can apply for an immigrant visa but obviously she’s not in a position to become a citizen of the US, so she is required to have some other sort of visa to live here? Or is there some sort of arrangement with the US government? How does this work if she stays permanently?

 

[Countessmeout]

How does it work for royals to move to a foreign country such as is the case here? Foreign spouses can apply for an immigrant visa but obviously she’s not in a position to become a citizen of the US, so she is required to have some other sort of visa to live here? Or is there some sort of arrangement with the US government? How does this work if she stays permanently?

Its easier for Madeleine. Her husband is a US citizen (dual with the UK). She would be there as a permanent resident (originally spousal visa). She likely could apply for dual-citizenship. I'd think she'd retain her place, as long as she continues to also be a Swedish citizen.

Other royals usually move to foreign countries for things like jobs or school, and would be on the neccessary visa.

 

[Kaatje]

Its easier for Madeleine. Her husband is a US citizen (dual with the UK). She would be there as a permanent resident (originally spousal visa). She likely could apply for dual-citizenship. I'd think she'd retain her place, as long as she continues to also be a Swedish citizen.

Other royals usually move to foreign countries for things like jobs or school, and would be on the neccessary visa.

Thank you! I’ve always wondered how these movements work!

 

[Somebody]

Madeleine has a diplomatic passport; at least some royals use those to not bother with other kinds of visa regulations.

 

[Kaatje]

Madeleine has a diplomatic passport; at least some royals use those to not bother with other kinds of visa regulations.

Doesn’t the use of a diplomatic passport require that she is in the US on behalf of her country? Or maybe royals don’t have a second “regular” passport for personal use? I have no idea if royals have a different distinction in their passports, but I find the topic very interesting.

 

[Countessmeout]

Madeleine has a diplomatic passport; at least some royals use those to not bother with other kinds of visa regulations.

Diplomatic passports are for travel, not for long term residence. Her diplomatic passport would help her come and go from the country with ease. But for living there full time, that is another matter. Unless she was holding an official position for the Swedish court.

 

[MsJulie]

Sometime ago, if I understood the post correctly, Swedish Law said that prince/princesses had to attend school in Sweden in order to keep their right to succession. I found this:

https://royalcentral.co.uk/europe/s...lose-their-titles-in-the-coming-years-106861/

Does this change? They loses HRH but not the succession? I am confused. Thanks.

 

[winifred]

As I understand it, only members of the Royal HOUSE lose their succession rights over the education rule. Since Madde and Carl-Philippe and their children are now only part of the Royal Family, and not the Royal House, the children remain in the line of succession.

 

[LadyFinn]

Princess Madeleine stays in the United States indefinitely
Madeleine has no plans to move home to Sweden. At least not for a long time. The court reports that the princess couple has given up the children's places in preschools in Stockholm.
Last year, Madeleine and Chris took the kids with them and moved to the United States. In Miami, Florida, the Princess family has created a life that works well with Chris's work and children's activities.
But just like other expatriate Swedes, the princess of course feels homesickness at times. And it is above all the proximity to the family and friends that she lacks, Madeleine has told in several interviews. For life in Florida, there is no temporary housing situation for Madeleine and Chris. No, they plan to stay in the United States indefinitely.
Svensk Damtidning has asked the court what Madeleine has chosen to do with Leonore and Nicolas's preschool places in Stockholm. When the family lived in London, in 2017, the children had pre-school places - even in Sweden. Leonore stood in a queue, got a place and was also schooled at a preschool near the apartment at the Royal Mews.
- The family lives in London but since they regularly stay in Sweden it is good that Princess Leonore has this experience. Then it is also about that Madeleine wants the children having a strong connection to Sweden and the Swedish language, said Margareta Thorgren then.
But now the situation is different.
Madeleine's children no longer have their preschool places in Stockholm, Margareta Thorgren has told to Svensk Damtidning. And that indicates that the move to the US is more permanent than the move to London ever was. The Princess couple has created an everyday life in Florida - indefinitely.
In the future, Leonore, Nicolas and Adrienne will also be considered private individuals. They are no longer Royal Highnesses and will therefore have no obligations to perform assignments in the King's service. They will also be freer when it comes to choosing what they want to educate and work on.
Prinsessan Madeleine stannar i USA _ Svensk Dam

 

[Tatiana Maria]

That appears to be a definite decision, but it's curious that it was communicated in this oblique manner to a gossip magazine rather than a clear statement in an official press release. Perhaps the Court is making a point of treating it as a private matter, in accordance with their new reading of the Act of Succession.

 

[LadyFinn]

Svensk Damtidning writes that Madeleine and Chris's house is still for sale.

Madeleine and Chris's house is for sale and no one knows where they will go if they have to move.
While Christmas decorations are being picked up, a storm cloud hangs over Madeleine and her family this Christmas. For it is not entirely certain where they will live next year.
Just over a year ago, the family took their pick and pack and moved into a rented luxury villa in Florida. 750 square meters, seven bedrooms, wine cellar and pool. In the garden, mango trees and papaya trees swayed in the warm winds.
But just when the family had really settled in and made themselves at home, the shock message came. In July, the house suddenly went out for sale, for SEK 29 million. During the fall, a for sale sign has been placed outside the house, so far no one has bought it.
Princess Madeleine and Chris are worried that they may need to move again.
But any day the house can be sold, and since Madeleine and Chris only rent the house, they may not be able to stay. The family has already moved over four times and they really seemed to have found their home in the luxury villa.
Därför måste Madeleine och Chris bryta upp _ Svensk Dam