Princess Madeleine, Chris O’Neill & their children moving to Sweden

[kalnel]

Even if that would be true; that's something they should have considered before announcing their move. It's really the going back on forth on their announced plans about living or not living permanently or temporarily in Sweden (not just times but before as well) that makes them seem undecisive.

Why "should have considered?" They don't owe anyone an explanation. What do they care if people think they're indecisive?

They may have just decided that this year wasn't good timing -- for the couple or the kids. Or maybe it was a matter of convenience. It doesn't have to be some deep, dark reason.

 

[Somebody]

Why "should have considered?" They don't owe anyone an explanation. What do they care if people think they're indecisive?

They may have just decided that this year wasn't good timing -- for the couple or the kids. Or maybe it was a matter of convenience. It doesn't have to be some deep, dark reason.

Your previous explanation was that the delay of the announced return to Sweden might have been because it was not the right timing in terms of schooling. If that was truly the main consideration for postponing, that is not a new development but something anyone moving (and even more so anyone moving internationally) should consider before taking any drastic actions (such as putting your house on the market and announcing your return to Sweden in this case); not something that comes up several months later...

Of course, circumstances might change and there could be good reasons for the postponement, but your example is one that could have been foreseen and any parent moving their family should consider the impact on their children's schooling in advance not as an after-thought.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Madeleine was not living in Sweden nor was she on active royal duty when the two of them met. She had relinquished all that after her engagement with Jonas broke off and she left for New York to heal from this painful breakup I suppose. While there she was able to work for her mother's charity organization.

So, at that time the two of them probably figured that this configuration of them living abroad with Madeleine travelling to Sweden occassionally would work out fine. So, it seems it was Madeleine who changed her mind. And it looks like they still - after trying various options - haven't found an arrangement that works for all of them .

I don't think the princess decamping to New York City when the breaking of her engagement was announced was intended as a permanent move. Initially, she did not even cancel her official engagements in Sweden over the subsequent weeks and it attracted some media attention when she later did so. (See https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...part-7-february-2008-may-2010-a-15924-16.html)

In contrast, when she returned to Sweden after her first child's birth, she registered the length of her intended stay in Sweden as "permanent". http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/prinsessan-madeleine-flyttar-hem-till-sverige/

It is true that she has not had to completely give up her private career (though she has had to give up almost all of her official commitments) because World Childhood Foundation has branches in the US and UK, but I imagine it is not the same as working at headquarters, and in any event, Chris O'Neill would not need to relinquish his career to move to Sweden either, as my understanding is that it is perfectly possible for his type of work to be carried out in Stockholm.

Prince Joachim of Denmark also met his first wife when he was working in her country, but I don't think anyone, much less his wife, would have expected him (and her) to continue to live there after marriage.

 

[kalnel]

Your previous explanation was that the delay of the announced return to Sweden might have been because it was not the right timing in terms of schooling. If that was truly the main consideration for postponing, that is not a new development but something anyone moving (and even more so anyone moving internationally) should consider before taking any drastic actions (such as putting your house on the market and announcing your return to Sweden in this case); not something that comes up several months later...

Of course, circumstances might change and there could be good reasons for the postponement, but your example is one that could have been foreseen and any parent moving their family should consider the impact on their children's schooling in advance not as an after-thought.

Not necessarily. They announced their plan to move to Sweden in March, and they cancelled their plan in late June. Perhaps they assessed the children's schooling at the end of the school year and changed their minds.

Things can change a lot from March to June.

But, I would point out again that I was not offering an "explanation" of anything. I was just musing that the children's schooling could be part (or all) of the reason they decided against moving.

I went back and looked at the reporting in this thread of what the spokesperson for the royal house said, and the comment was that they weren't ready. That certainly would cover many scenarios, from the kids' schools to Chris getting his business activities arranged to selling their house here to getting a place in Sweden ready to move in.

Who knows?

 

[Mbruno]

Not necessarily. They announced their plan to move to Sweden in March, and they cancelled their plan in late June. Perhaps they assessed the children's schooling at the end of the school year and changed their minds.

Things can change a lot from March to June.

But, I would point out again that I was not offering an "explanation" of anything. I was just musing that the children's schooling could be part (or all) of the reason they decided against moving.

I went back and looked at the reporting in this thread of what the spokesperson for the royal house said, and the comment was that they weren't ready. That certainly would cover many scenarios, from the kids' schools to Chris getting his business activities arranged to selling their house here to getting a place in Sweden ready to move in.

Who knows?

I am not an expert on children's education, but it appears to me that the longer the children stay in school in the United States, the harder it will be for them to adapt to school in Sweden with a different language of instruction and learning, a different curriculum, different teaching methods, etc.

 

[Frelinghighness]

Children are adaptable and these children have had a very great exposure to Sweden with cousins about the same age and grandparents of course. All of that is motivation for them to adapt and most likely learn the language if they want to play and fit in. Children can learn languages so much easier than adults. Also, we don’t know, maybe their mother has only spoken to them in Swedish?
In any case, they would have the best schools in either country, something international I would guess. Their ages are important. Switching before puberty is a given.
Imo, Madeleine wants to be close to her parents and she would be right. Silvia appears fatigued to me in the past year.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Not necessarily. They announced their plan to move to Sweden in March, and they cancelled their plan in late June. Perhaps they assessed the children's schooling at the end of the school year and changed their minds.

Things can change a lot from March to June.

Somebody was responding to the example you gave in your original post:

I was just thinking about whether next year would be a more natural year to transfer the kids to a new school without too much disruption. Based on their ages, I would guess that Leonore, who is nine, is probably in fourth grade. Nicolas, who is eight, is probably in third grade. (Give or take a year, depending on what age they started.)

Neither would be likely to change schools for another few years here in the United States, but I wonder if next year might the age that Swedish students change schools.

The age at which children normally transfer schools in Sweden did not change between March and June 2023, and thus is something that the parents should, and probably did, already assess before March.

To answer your original question:

"In the Swedish school system, children go to school for at least ten years from the year they turn six, as mandated by the Swedish Education Act [...] Swedish compulsory schooling consists of four stages: förskoleklass (‘preschool year’ or year 0), lågstadiet (years 1–3), mellanstadiet (years 4–6) and högstadiet (years 7–9). Children between ages six and thirteen are also offered out-of-school care before and after school hours."

The Swedish school system | sweden.se​

Campus Manilla, the school which Princess Estelle and Prince Oscar attend and which Princess Madeleine was rumored to be considering for her children, includes a primary school which covers years 1-9 (i.e., children ages 6-16).

Grundskola - Campus Manilla

I went back and looked at the reporting in this thread of what the spokesperson for the royal house said, and the comment was that they weren't ready. That certainly would cover many scenarios, from the kids' schools to Chris getting his business activities arranged to selling their house here to getting a place in Sweden ready to move in.

Who knows?

The last two scenarios are unlikely. Court spokeswoman Margareta Thorgren denied that the postponement was related to the home sale (or to immigration issues), and nothing has happened (as far as we know) between March and June to the couple's expanded and renovated (and rent-free) apartment at the Royal Mews. And while the children aren't necessarily guaranteed placements at their parents' first-choice school, schooling is free, compulsory and guaranteed in Sweden, so there is no concern about finding them a place.

He who pays the piper calls the tune. I have no doubt in Sweden that will be the in laws. Housing, schools, thats a lot of money. Not sure Chris is a breadwinner of that scale. The in laws may even pay for that already and in Sweden, Chris would be totally trapped by the in law family and the media.

Their housing and schooling would both be state-funded in Sweden: the former owing to the king's royal right of disposal over numerous state-owned residences, the latter being national policy.

Given how far down they are in the line to the throne, I don't understand why it is so important to Madeleine that her children have succession rights.

What leads you to think it is important to her? Besides, we have seen how for many people it is "so important" to have hundreds or thousands of people in line to the British throne; keeping numbers 9-11 in line seems much more reasonable in comparison.

Also, we don’t know, maybe their mother has only spoken to them in Swedish?

According to the court spokeswoman, the children are bilingual in Swedish and English.

In Hänt Magazine:
Madeleine's children have lived in the USA almost all their lives, and all three are kind of hidden royalty for many here in Sweden. You can then wonder about is how it really is with the Swedish language for the children. In an Instagram post that the royal family recently shared, several people wondered if the children spoke or understood Swedish.
But now the royal family reveal to Hänt how their language skills actually are.
"The children are bilingual", reveals Margareta Thorgren.
The princess' children can thus speak and understand both English and Swedish.
Sanningen om prinsessan Madeleines barn – efter frågorna _ Hänt

 

[LadyFinn]

Aftonbladet has noticed, that Madeleine and Chris's house is for sale again.
The price is now $7,295,000.
In March 2023 the price was $7,650,000 and in April 2023 it was $7,450,000. On 17th June 2023 the house was taken out from the listing for sale.
Prinsessan Madeleine säljer sitt lyxiga hus i Florida

The swedish press about that Madeleine and Chris have had to lower the price of their house from the previous sale.
Madeleine och Chris miljonbakslag med huset _ Kungligt _ Expressen
Madeleines och Chris bakslag – tvingas sänka huspriset med 4 miljoner _*Svensk Dam

 

[LadyFinn]

Svensk Damtidning writes that the price of Madeleine and Chris's house has been reduced yesterday.
After 118 days on sale with the price $7,295,000, the new price is $6,995,000.

Chris och Madeleine dumpar priset på lyxhuset – desperata draget

Prinsessan Madeleine och Chris O'Neill sänker priset med flera miljoner kronor.

www.svenskdam.se

 

[valeas]

I think it could turn out extremely difficult for Chris to adapt to Sweden and while Madeleine is said to be shy she might miss her homecountry and a bit of the royal limelight.IMO its not about succession, lets be realistic.
If she decided to return after her parents passing there might simply be no role for her at all- So now is the time!
The family works well without her, Sofia got important and is respected, a third fourth or even third royal lady in Sweden while Estelle will soon be ready... I don't see the need of Madeleine in official engagements at all.
I think it was very clever of Silvia to place Madeleine into the Childhood thing, this guarantees her some role, at least some little importance plus duties/income/connections.
I fear the couple will carry on with the difficulty of where to live
and once they are back in Sweden every step, trip or fancy partylife is on the Swedish public's eye. Guess Chris will hate it and I do not blame him for this, like some media do.
People outside Scandinavia are likely to idealise our countries because of the wonderful landscapes not knowing much more,
but the Swedish society f.e. is so much different from the rest of Europe or US, it is very hard to adapt, people never accept you no matter how long you lived here and the transparency has grown some weird development, too. Your neighbour does not only mind his business.
I hope the marriage of C&M is strong!

 

[LadyFinn]

Articles in Swedish media about the sale of Madeleine and Chris's house

Efter tröga processen – prinsessan Madeleine har hittat husköpare

Prinsessan Madeleine och Chris O’Neill har i snart ett år försökt sälja sin miljonvilla. Nu har de hittat en köpare – och kanske säljer de till ett oväntat pris

www.aftonbladet.se

Prinsessan Madeleine har äntligen sålt lyxvillan

Det gick trögare än väntat att få lyxvillan i Florida såld. Men nu har prinsessan Madeleine och maken Chris O’Neill äntligen hittat en köpare, rapporterar Hello! 75 miljoner kronor kammar prinsessparet hem på försäljningen – vilket är en bra bit under utgångspriset.

www.expressen.se

 

[Somebody]

Looks like a very specific step towards establishing a future in Sweden. Belgravia most likely refers to the London neighborhood of the same name.

Not sure whether combining business and friends is the best idea. If things go wrong business wise, it might also affect personal relations.

 

[LadyFinn]

Finnish Iltalehti quotes Expressen's paywall article
Margareta Thorgren says that as Madeleine and her family's move is such a large move that the family will come in stages. The house needs to be emptied and other such stuff. They have lived in the United States for many years, there is a lot to plan there.
Madeleine will return to Sweden already in mid-July. Thorgren says that the family plans to vacation in Sweden together, and they also plan to attend Victoria's birthday party on July 14 in Öland.
The children will go to a Swedish school in the autumn.

Då flyttar Madeleine och Chris med familjen till Sverige

Nu får Sverige ännu mer kunglig glans. Prinsessan Madeleine med familj flyttar hem till Sverige – och barnen börjar i svensk skola. – I och med att det är en rätt så stor flytt så kommer familjen komma i omgångar, säger Margareta Thorgren, informationschef på hovet.

www.expressen.se

Madeleine ja Chris eivät muuta samaan aikaan Tukholmaan

Madeleinen perhe muuttaa Ruotsiin kesän aikana.

www.iltalehti.fi

 

[Somebody]

I am trying to understand the stages. It sounds as if Madeleine and the children will move back in July (bringing basic stuff like clothes) and Chris will come as well but go back to Florida afterwards to arrange the real move later that summer. Or will he not come at all until he's arranged everything back home?

 

[FigTree]

Well kids will be finished school for quite a while. My understanding is that Chris will come later.

Of course it’s huge but ai don’t think for one moment they just won’t hire someone to pack their things things up.

 

[Somebody]

Well kids will be finished school for quite a while. My understanding is that Chris will come later.

Of course it’s huge but ai don’t think for one moment they just won’t hire someone to pack their things things up.

For sure. However, you still want someone at the house when they are packing to answer any questions about what should happen with certain items that for example cannot be transported by container or air, things that might be left behind or will be taken on as 'luggage' when flying to Sweden. And there is quite some paperwork to sign for international moves.

There is no reason why they cannot just move back to Sweden all at the same time - but it makes sense to move out of your house a few days prior to the official move as to be able to live somewhat of a normal life for the children. In their case, I expect they'll need a few days packing even with a large team of movers - as well as a day for loading everything into the container(s). So, it looks like they decided that Madeleine would take the children to Sweden while Chris takes care of the move itself.

 

[LadyFinn]

I am trying to understand the stages. It sounds as if Madeleine and the children will move back in July (bringing basic stuff like clothes) and Chris will come as well but go back to Florida afterwards to arrange the real move later that summer. Or will he not come at all until he's arranged everything back home?

As always, the statements about the move are a mess. It can also be that the finnish newspaper has not understood correctly.
Now Hänt Magazine writes:
Thorgren reveals that Madeleine will come home already in mid-June alone. But when there is a holiday, the family will be together in Sweden, the family will have holiday, as much as possible, on Öland and in Sweden.
Hänt contacts the court and asks when the whole family will be together in Sweden, and Thorgren replies in a message to Hänt: "The princess's entire family is moving to Sweden after the summer".
The children have also been enrolled in a Swedish school, but exactly which one the court doesn't want to specify.
- The children will start in schools in the Stockholm region.
There have been rumors about Carlsson's school in central Stockholm.

Prinsessan Madeleine flyttar ensam till Sverige – hovet bekräftar chocknyheten

Prinsessan Madeleines flytt till Sverige har gång på gång blivit uppskjuten – men nu är det äntligen dags! Men inte med familjen..,

www.hant.se

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I only believe it when I see it, the whole family in Sweden. I don't see Chris permanently in Sweden at all, with the tabloid press having a field day chasing him and writing about how uncomfortable he looks at family events. Maybe they move there and he will have his escape route by doing extended business trips abroad.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

and Thorgren replies in a message to Hänt: "The princess's entire family is moving to Sweden after the summer".

Since the school year begins in late summer, the children will be unable to start on schedule if they only move to Sweden "after the summer". Does this suggest the move is being postponed again, or is it only their father who will wait until after summer to return to Sweden?

 

[hereditarytitles]

After all those messages of Mrs. Thorgren I get the impression that she doesn't exactly know how the family's plan is. But , that is probably not her fault, but Madeleine and her husband seem to have problems with the great move.
Madeleine recently looked haggard and stressed. Maybe they still have problems to find a compromise. It isn't easy to move a whole family from another continent with a different culture and style of living to another continent. Maybe Chris wanted to stay in the US and Madeleine tried and after a while wasn't comfortable, homesick, wanted her children to be back in her family. I can well understand that. Chris on the other hand seems to be a very cosmopolitan guy having grown up in family like that. He doesn't belong to a royal family, always insisted to provide for his own family, doesn't want to subdue to royal duties like some other husbands have done. Although, when I think about it, the only othersthat come to mind is Daniel of Sweden and the late Duke of Edinborough who completely gave up their own life and ambition to support their wifes.
Sure there is a difference because Madeleine is not the heir... I just hope for them to have made the right decision and they all will be content with the new life in Sweden.
It will not be easy for the children because they are in an age where they have grown up and went to school in the US, maybe adapted the lifestyle and made friends.
Anybody who ever made that experience of moving a family with children from one country to another will understand that this is not an easy thing to do

 

[Mbruno]

After all those messages of Mrs. Thorgren I get the impression that she doesn't exactly know how the family's plan is. But , that is probably not her fault, but Madeleine and her husband seem to have problems with the great move.
Madeleine recently looked haggard and stressed. Maybe they still have problems to find a compromise. It isn't easy to move a whole family from another continent with a different culture and style of living to another continent. Maybe Chris wanted to stay in the US and Madeleine tried and after a while wasn't comfortable, homesick, wanted her children to be back in her family. I can well understand that. Chris on the other hand seems to be a very cosmopolitan guy having grown up in family like that. He doesn't belong to a royal family, always insisted to provide for his own family, doesn't want to subdue to royal duties like some other husbands have done. Although, when I think about it, the only othersthat come to mind is Daniel of Sweden and the late Duke of Edinborough who completely gave up their own life and ambition to support their wifes.
Sure there is a difference because Madeleine is not the heir... I just hope for them to have made the right decision and they all will be content with the new life in Sweden.
It will not be easy for the children because they are in an age where they have grown up and went to school in the US, maybe adapted the lifestyle and made friends.
Anybody who ever made that experience of moving a family with children from one country to another will understand that this is not an easy thing to do

People like Prince Daniel or the Duke of Edimburgh are (or were) married to future queens, so they had no alternative but to give up their former private life and become full-time working royals. That is not the case, however, of most husbands of royals who are not direct in line to the throne. Pieter van Vollenhoven, Lorenz of Austria-Este and Sir Timothy Laurence are examples of men who married royal princesses and did not have to give up their careers.

I doubt Chris is expected to become a working member of the Royal Family, even on a part-time basis. I believe the real issue for him is moving to Sweden, when he would rather stay in the United States probably.

 

[FigTree]

He may be away a lot. He may now be away a lot. Prompting Madeleine wanting to be nearer family. Whichnis understandable.

 

[Silverpot]

Since the school year begins in late summer, the children will be unable to start on schedule if they only move to Sweden "after the summer". Does this suggest the move is being postponed again, or is it only their father who will wait until after summer to return to Sweden?

The school year starts around 20th of August, which is the start of autumn on our latitudes. So yes, it's considered to be "after the summer".

 

[LadyFinn]

Chris has answered to Expressen in an e-mail about his new company and how he will set up life in Stockholm.

Belgravia Advisors AB is just been started. It is active, but is not expected to generate revenue to any meaningful extent this year, Chris writes.
He wants time with his family, given the family's planned move, it is important for him balance his career - which according to him is a private matter - with the fact that he is married to Madeleine.
Chris will still move around the world to the extent necessary: "I plan to have my base in Stockholm full time, but will travel as often as my job requires."
That Chris himself hasn't yet registered in Sweden is one of the reasons why he chose to bring his friends into the board: "They also satisfy the requirement that more than half of the board members reside in the EES."

Chris O'Neills egna ord – nya planen i Sverige

NEW YORK. Här är Chris O’Neills plan för framtiden i Sverige. För Expressen berättar han om sitt nya företag – och hur han ska lägga upp tillvaron i Stockholm. ”Jag kommer resa så ofta som mitt jobb kräver” , skriver han.

www.expressen.se

Chris O'Neill talar ut om flytten till Sverige – vill ha tid med familjen

Chris O'Neill berättar nu om sina planer inför flytten till Sverige – avslöjar detaljerna.

www.svenskdam.se

The website of Belgravia Advisors AB:

Belgravia Advisors AB - Belgravia Advisors AB

belgravia-advisors.com

 

[LadyFinn]

Madeleine celebrates today her 42th birthday. The royal court published a family photo taken last summer at the connection of the royal family's group photo.
"Princess Madeleine and her family are now moving home to Sweden. After several years of living abroad, the Princess and Mr. Christopher O'Neill have decided that the family will live in Stockholm for the time being."

H.K.H. Prinsessan Madeleine 42 år

I dag fyller H.K.H. Prinsessan Madeleine 42 år. Grattis!

www.kungahuset.se

 

[FigTree]

For the time being. They would want to be thinking about their children. Huge move for them and best leave them now with their education etc. it’s not like they kept their home in America in case they want to return.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

For the time being

 

[Ghost]

My father was a military. It was always for the time being. Yet a very stable home.

 

[Somebody]

In their case it sounds as if they want to try it out and if it truly doesn’t work out for Chris they will once again move/make other arrangements. Probably not back to Florida but I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK ends up being in de cards again at some point in the future.

 

[tommy100]

Yes, I think they are simply giving themselves room for any potential moves later on. I can see the UK being an option - they did it before didn't they? I think they'll stay in Europe, both have parents in their - respectfully - twilight years where being 2-3hrs direct plane ride away is preferable to 10hrs+ with the need for connecting flights.