Princess Diana's Relationship with her Stepmother, Raine Spencer

[MARG]

I think it is absolute not right for Diana to push her step-mother off a step. But it is arguable whether it is due to her character or her mental illness at that time (bulimia and depression).
But I don't see the necessity to over exaggerate it as Diana wanted to harm Raine intentionally. It is a step not stair. It might be a big step or a small step. I tend to believe it is a small step, because considering there were so many guests and photographers in the event (Charles Spencer's wedding was a big social event at that time), no one and no news had came out to talk about this incident at all. So it is very likely so minor that people didn't even notice.

No doubt the incident had happened. But without any witness, any news, there is no need to exaggerate it. The good news is, Diana and Raine became good friends later and the friendship lasted for many years. There is no need to imagine a story like Raine was an angel, Diana was an evil, and the angel loved the evil so much, she missed the evil long after she died, and made a statement to beg for the justice for the evil to make her rip.

Trying to whitewash an event that Diana herself talked about on the Settelen Tapes is pointless. It was not a small step, it was not a big step. It was "a flight of stairs" in Diana's own words.

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months. I had to go back and say, you know... I love you daddy, etc, etc. I was so angry. I wanted to throttle that stepmother of mine because she brought such grief.

Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Daily Mail Online

This is a royal forum not a fan site and this thread is about Diana's relationship with her Step-mother. This compulsion to whitewash Diana's behavior and attack anyone who does not agree with you and accuse them of "exaggerating" is totally ridiculous when they are quoting Diana herself. Just as an aside, there is more than one staircase at Althorp.

She was 28 years old when she pushed Raine down the stairs, her joy at what she had done and how sorry she was is reflected in the casual way she describes how she had to manipulate her father to placate him. There is no regret at what she had done four or five years before, just irritation that she had to 'kiss up to daddy' to get back into his good books.

I do not hate Diana, how can you "hate" someone you do not know. But what I do hate is the persistent sanctification of her. She was not an angel and she wasn't the devil, but IMO she was not a particularly nice person. As to Raines statement? It is a matter of public record in a court of law.

Are people still going over the rocky start of Diana's relationship with her stepmother, of which their relationship approved very well and long before Diana died?

Um, this thread is named:

Princess Diana's Relationship with her Stepmother, Raine Spencer​

The Earl Spencer married Raine, Countess of Dartmouth in 1976. Diana pushed her down the stairs in 1989. Hardly the "rocky start of Diana's relationship with her stepmother".

 

[anbrida]

Trying to whitewash an event that Diana herself talked about on the Settelen Tapes is pointless. It was not a small step, it was not a big step. It was "a flight of stairs" in Diana's own words.
Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Daily Mail Online

This is a royal forum not a fan site and this thread is about Diana's relationship with her Step-mother. This compulsion to whitewash Diana's behavior and attack anyone who does not agree with you and accuse them of "exaggerating" is totally ridiculous when they are quoting Diana herself. Just as an aside, there is more than one staircase at Althorp.

She was 28 years old when she pushed Raine down the stairs, her joy at what she had done and how sorry she was is reflected in the casual way she describes how she had to manipulate her father to placate him. There is no regret at what she had done four or five years before, just irritation that she had to 'kiss up to daddy' to get back into his good books.

I do not hate Diana, how can you "hate" someone you do not know. But what I do hate is the persistent sanctification of her. She was not an angel and she wasn't the devil, but IMO she was not a particularly nice person. As to Raines statement? It is a matter of public record in a court of law.

First my apologize for the misinformation about the situation. I didn't read the newspaper, I watched the video, I think I missed the "s" at the end. However, what she said was "the stairs" not "a flight of stairs". There are a lot of stairs in Althorp, might be the front door or inside the house. Might be two-step stairs or a flight of stairs.

Obviously that was very terrible behavior. However the "seriousness" of the incidence was really questionable. It happen in Charles Spencer's wedding day. There was no injure report, no news report, no picture, no other people even mentioned about the story, all we have just a few words. But with common sense, the incident didn't cause any turmoil, otherwise in such a big social event with so many guests and photographers, there would be too many witnesses available. So I think there is no necessity to imagine Diana had done some serious crime.

About she didn't show regret in the tape. First, definitely she should apologize which finally she did. And if she was talking about this event with Raine, and she didn't show any remorse, that was terrible. However she was talking about this to a third person many years later, and the incidence was not a serious one. From the context, she was talking about how bad Raine treated her mother, how Raine not allowed the children to see their father for 16 weeks, it would be really unnatural to expect her suddenly show great remorse when she talked about that incident.

The event happened because Raine even refused to say "hi" to Diana's mother Frances who was still the groom's mother, which should get full respect in her son's wedding. So don't portrait Raine as some angel who have a huge ability to forgive people and therefore can love anybody no matter how bad they are. Raine was just a normal person.

About Raine's statement in the court. There is no law requiring her to issue any statement. She took the initiative and was the only one in the court to do so. And there was other news which showed she cared about her step daughter a lot.

Finally, I state again, it was terrible for Diana to go physical. And it showed Diana could have huge tantrum. It is arguable whether it is due to her character or her state of mental illness (depression and bulimia).

But I don't think people should just use such a unclear event to define one person. If you notice, this single event was talked from the first post of this thread 9 years ago till today. There were so many lovely stories between Raine and Diana, but the lasting memory was this negative event.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Normally the family gathers first before the guests arrive which would account for very few people being aware of Diana's temper tantrum and her assaulting her step-mother.

Her father did not speak to her for 6 months, clearly John Spencer consider Diana's actions serious enough to warrant not speaking to his daughter for 6 months.

If you read the entire section both John and Raine did not say hello to Frances. Note the hypocrisy in Diana's words.

"My father and stepmother refused to even say hello to my mother. And it got me so angry, the behaviour of these grown-ups, that I ploughed in and screamed at my stepmother and my father. I said it was very bad manners.

"They were just indulging themselves and this was Charles's day and Victoria's. Do we have to live in the past every time mummy walks in the house?"

"My stepmother and I ended up having this row. And I pushed her down the stairs. Which gave me enormous satisfaction. My father didn't speak to me for six months. I had to go back and say, you know... I love you daddy, etc, etc. I was so angry. I wanted to throttle that stepmother of mine because she brought such grief.

"She kept saying to me, 'Oh, but Diana. you're so unhappy in your own marriage. You're just jealous of daddy's and my relationship.' And jealousy was not high on the agenda. It was behaviour I was after. She said, 'You don't know how much we've suffered because of Frances.' I said, 'Suffering, Raine? You don't know the word. I see suffering of such magnitude in my role that you would never even understand.'

"I really spat it out at her. I said, 'We've always hated you. You've ruined our family life. You've done a great job there, Raine. Great job. Made us really unhappy. I hope you're pleased about that.'"

Diana tapes: My troubled childhood | Daily Mail Online

 

[anbrida]

I think we better look at a bigger context. Here is what Queen Camilla missed out

We used to behave like homing pigeons to him. Lovely house. Everything else -- she moved in. It's out.
She is a bully, she doesn't know how to treat individual.
They say, the expert say, the stroke was brought on by the tension between the four children and a step-mother, which is very true, I am sure.
She wouldn't let us see him for about 16 weeks in hospital.

However This is only a very casual, private non-formal dialogue between two persons, when obviously Diana was in a bitter mood, when her marriage was falling apart. It is not a formal statement. The tapes were never supposed to be disclosed to the public. Does it really surprise everyone that when she was in a bitter mood, she would use extreme words, she would be not fair enough? What is the point to put such scrutiny on EVERY WORD she said in that tape, and then being so judgmental.

About showing no remorse. Obviously when the tape was made, she was bitter towards her step-mother, no matter she was right or wrong. But there is no good judge for family affair. Within the context, how can one moment she show bitterness towards one person, and then suddenly show remorse to the same person. Diana had bulimia not schizophrenia.

I just restate it again. That is only a casual, private, non-formal dialogue, when Diana was in a bitter mood as her marriage was falling apart. In my opinion, it is irrational to put such scrutiny on every words she said in this tape. No one would wish their private, casual words to be examed one-by-one in such strict and judgmental manner.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Holy crap, I just discovered Raine had her own children. How have I never heard this before?

 

[Osipi]

Holy crap, I just discovered Raine had her own children. How have I never heard this before?

She has 4 children from a previous marriage to Gerald Legge, 9th Earl of Dartmouth. They married in 1947 and divorced in 1976). Children are William, Rupert, Charlotte and Henry.

Another interesting fact is that a year after the death of Johnnie Spencer, she remarried again to Comte Jean-François Pineton de Chambrun and they subsequently were divorced in 1995.

 

[Ish]

She has 4 children from a previous marriage to Gerald Legge, 9th Earl of Dartmouth. They married in 1947 and divorced in 1976). Children are William, Rupert, Charlotte and Henry.



Another interesting fact is that a year after the death of Johnnie Spencer, she remarried again to Comte Jean-François Pineton de Chambrun and they subsequently were divorced in 1995.

So... both of Diana's sons and her granddaughter share names with her step-siblings?

 

[Osipi]

So... both of Diana's sons and her granddaughter share names with her step-siblings?

It looks that way doesn't it.

I think too that among the aristocratic set, some names are just very, very British and very, very popular. I'm just glad that Rupert was put to the side. Its not a name I really care for much.

 

[Frelinghighness]

Raine was such a disaster, the whole divorce was such a terrible scar on the family especially for Diana and her younger brother. That any of the children ever spoke to her, after her truly taking over their father and the estate and selling so many of the treasures, is a miracle.
Of course, people love to blame the women, but it was john spencer who allowed his new wife so much power.

 

[Osipi]

Althorp was definitely a bone of contention in the Spencer family. It wasn't only Raine that was selling off but actually the entire family. There were various differences of opinion on just what should be done. Charles Spencer, at the time was the manager of the estate for his father and Raine wanted to redecorate the rooms at Althorp in ways that the children did not agree with.

I did find an old article that was published around the time of the Battle at Althorp.

Princess Di vs. Wicked Stepmother : Royalty: Countess Spencer is selling off family heirlooms against her stepchildren's wishes, insiders say. The British are all atwitter over tiff. - latimes

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

She has 4 children from a previous marriage to Gerald Legge, 9th Earl of Dartmouth. They married in 1947 and divorced in 1976). Children are William, Rupert, Charlotte and Henry.

Another interesting fact is that a year after the death of Johnnie Spencer, she remarried again to Comte Jean-François Pineton de Chambrun and they subsequently were divorced in 1995.

Yeah I just read this and the children's names, I believe the last 2 are younger than Diana. I have never heard of this, I assumed Raine had no children. What was the relationship like between the step siblings? I don't believe this is off topic. In reading about Diana I only ever hear about how cruel the step chikdren were to Raine or how Raine was the big bad wolf but never anything about her first 4 children and their relationship with the Spencers and Johnny as a step father.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Raine was such a disaster, the whole divorce was such a terrible scar on the family especially for Diana and her younger brother. That any of the children ever spoke to her, after her truly taking over their father and the estate and selling so many of the treasures, is a miracle.
Of course, people love to blame the women, but it was john spencer who allowed his new wife so much power.

Raine was not a disaster. She met John Spencer in 1973, married him in 1976. John and Raine did not redecorate until 1990/1991.
Eighteen years after they met and fifteen years after they married.

The Spencer divorce was not the fault of Raine.

The 'children' were adults. Their behavior was unforgivable.

Raine is said to have lost custody of her two younger children because of her relationship with John Spencer.

It is interesting that people were not aware that Raine had children but think the 'Spencer children were scarred from the divorce'. No concern for the Legge children or the Shand-Kydd children.

John Spencer on what he thought of his children from the article Ospi linked.

"I have told my friends that all children are ungrateful," he said. "They just don't seem to understand the responsibilities of this place. It costs a lot of money to run. My father left me this estate, and I decided to sell some things to help pay our way."

He specifically points out Diana.

"Diana doesn't understand about money," Earl Spencer added. "She's had no experience of money.....I love my children, but they have gone a bit haywire."

It is a wonder Raine ever spoke to the Spencer 'children'.

The mistreatment of Raine by Diana and her brother began long before items were sold by John Spencer.

 

[royal rob]

Didn't raine paint some of the beautiful old woodwork with gold paint ? I'm sure I remember reading that


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[wyevale]

Acid Raine [despite her fearsome reputation], was clearly not a woman who wanted to be without the protection of a [titled] man, in this World...

 

[Osipi]

Acid Raine [despite her fearsome reputation], was clearly not a woman who wanted to be without the protection of a [titled] man, in this World...

I have to admit I thought the same thing but from what I've seen, Raine and Johnnie did have a good, loving relationship.

 

[Mermaid1962]

One of the 'serious' biographies of Diana that I read said that what Raine did was to bring the furniture back to the period when Althorp House was built, which included the bright colours of the furniture.

Didn't raine paint some of the beautiful old woodwork with gold paint ? I'm sure I remember reading that


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

Yes, and that must have really bothered those who were against her.

I have to admit I thought the same thing but from what I've seen, Raine and Johnnie did have a good, loving relationship.

This is true. I see William Legge being interviewed sometimes on British news programs.

I find it interesting that the Spencers are so often seen as victims. There were three broken families because of the breakdown of the 8th Earl Spencer's first marriage and the adulteries in which they both participated.

It is interesting that people were not aware that Raine had children but think the 'Spencer children were scarred from the divorce'. No concern for the Legge children or the Shand-Kydd children.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I remember quite well that Raine had 4 children so her youngest were 8 and 13 at the time of her second marriage, Diana was 15 and her younger brother around 12. That was a lot of underage children.


Raine was a very flamboyant character, her third marriage I remember well also because she remarried pretty quickly to a French count she barely knew, and didn't stay married for long.

 

[Curryong]

Raine took after her mother, Barbara Cartland, in personality, I've always thought. Barbara herself was divorced, at a time when that was very unusual. I can remember the Press making a bit of a fuss at the time of Diana's wedding because Raine's mother wasn't on the guest list.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Google says Barbara was divorced as well.
It is ironic that Francis is called a bolter but Raine isnt. At least with Francis she didn't bolt, her children were taken from her. I assume Raines first husband wasn't too keen to let her keep the younger ones, the same with Johnny.

 

[Isabella]

This is true. I see William Legge being interviewed sometimes on British news programs.

I find it interesting that the Spencers are so often seen as victims. There were three broken families because of the breakdown of the 8th Earl Spencer's first marriage and the adulteries in which they both participated.

Probably because the only reason this is being discussed at all is because it was once of the Spencer children who married the heir to the throne. So, of course, there's going to be a lot more focus on them. Personally, I don't see anything wrong in considering the Spencer children to be victims - I feel sad for any children who were negatively affected by divorce. True, the Legge and Shand-Kydd children aren't mentioned as often, as most people don't know much about them. I don't think that means that people don't sympathize with them less, in the general sense. It's a complex situation with a lot of parties involved.

 

[Queen Camilla]

I see William Legge being interviewed sometimes on British news programs.

I find it interesting that the Spencers are so often seen as victims. There were three broken families because of the breakdown of the 8th Earl Spencer's first marriage and the adulteries in which they both participated.

If you recall, can you share what William Legge said in the interview/s.

Thanks

 

[Mermaid1962]

It's political stuff mainly. I haven't heard him discuss his family or the Spencers. It's not appropriate here. If you want to see his appearances, he's searchable on YouTube under William Legge or Earl of Dartmouth.

 

[Countessmeout]

Not surprising. He is a pretty well-established politician. He is a member of the European parliament. His sister Charlotte is married to the Duke of Caraci. And Rupert, his brother's heir, seems to have published a few novels.

 

[Curryong]

What adulteries did Johnny, 8th Earl Spencer participate in that caused the breakdown of his first marriage? As far as I've read he was absolutely crushed by his wife Frances's actions with Peter Shand Kydd. Admittedly, he was the third party in Raine's divorce but he was single then. She was the adulterer not him.

 

[Countessmeout]

I don't remember hearing about John Spencer having an affair during his marriage to Frances. Maybe it is just not well publicized. The break down of their marriage was always chalked up to her affair with Shand-Kydd which led to him kicking her out and suing for custody of their kids. He was of course involved with Raine for 2 years prior to her divorce, but he was single.

 

[Denville]

I've never heard of his having any affairs. He had an affair with Raine who was married, and the kids hated her.. but it was their mother's affair (or rather her falling in love with Peter Shand Kydd) that broke up the marriage.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I'd never read of any affairs on Earl Spencer's part either.

 

[Blog Real]

I read that Diana and her stepmother made peace in recent years of the life of Diana. But they have had a complicated relationship.

 

[Denville]

I'd never read of any affairs on Earl Spencer's part either.

No, but Raine was married when he started his relationship with her. I think that Diana was very unlucky really.. I think that she missed her mother, and when Frances had gone, tried ot look after her father and followed him about, but he kept himself locked away a lot. And then he chose a vulgar arrogant woman for his new wife, who Im sure would not have been particularly affectionate to Diana, (Unless it suited her)...So she didn't have a warm female presence, apart from nannies who came and went. I think that the relationship with Raine was always stormy though she did get togethter with her later on.. I am not sure if perhaps then, she was realising that a lot of people of her class were down on her becauase of her differences with the RF, and she sought allies.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Right re Johnny and Raine. Diana didn't have the example of a stable, loving home life to follow. Had Johnny married a warm, soft, loving woman, things might have been different between them. Raine might have been right for Johnny, who was attracted to strong-willed women, but she seems to have been a difficult step-mother.