Princess Caroline and husbands part II

[Moonmaiden23]

It seems like after Grace’s death, they weren’t as close to all the royal families that Grace cultivated a relationship with. I always was in assumption that after her death, Monaco lost that American glamour and just became another European royalty.

I didn’t know Grace wanted Albert to marry a Spanish princess.

Monaco might be less glamorous after the Grace/Rainier era but the Principality is, if anything, even more prestigious with a seat at the UN.

And there is no major gathering of European royalty in the last 40 years since Grace's death....not even one...that has not featured a representative of the House of Grimaldi.

Finally....the idea that Caroline met Karl Lagerfeld through Ernest of Hanover is absurd. She has known him since she was a teenager.

In fact....the entire notion that this gorgeous, elegant and sophisticated woman was "ignored" on the Continent until she became HRH is beyond ridiculous. Go through archived issues of Point de Vue and Paris Match in the 70's, 80's and 90's and see if you still feel that way.

Marriage to Ernst gained Caroline nothing she didnt aready have except her beautiful 2nd daughter.

 

[Alexey 1904]

Kitty 1224: Apparently, royals want their family members to marry other royals. I guess he figured he got it when Caroline married 3rd time the charm, Ernst August of Hanover.

 

[Roderick]

It is exactly the opppsite. The current Prince of Monaco is at almost all international royal events, while we hardly saw Prince Rainier at any international royal wedding, jubilee, investiture, whatever. Also the royal turn-out at Prince Albert's wedding was far bigger than at any wedding of any Monegasque prince before him. So the relationships with all European royal families have improved and deepened, exactly under Albert!

Well, it could be said that the marriage of Albert's parents and its success was what put Monaco much further into the international spotlight than any personal efforts of Albert himself although he appears a more gregarious and sociable prince than Rainier was. Rainier tended to avoid events and occasions unless it was deemed necessary for him to attend, whilst Albert has involved himself in a wide range of causes outside of Monaco. Different era too, of course.

 

[Florestane]

Monaco might be less glamorous after the Grace/Rainier era but the Principality is, if anything, even more prestigious with a seat at the UN.

And there is no major gathering of European royalty in the last 40 years since Grace's death....not even one...that has not featured a representative of the House of Grimaldi.

Finally....the idea that Caroline met Karl Lagerfeld through Ernest of Hanover is absurd. She has known him since she was a teenager.

In fact....the entire notion that this gorgeous, elegant and sophisticated woman was "ignored" on the Continent until she became HRH is beyond ridiculous. Go through archived issues of Point de Vue and Paris Match in the 70's, 80's and 90's and see if you still feel that way.

Marriage to Ernst gained Caroline nothing she didnt aready have except her beautiful 2nd daughter.

Agree totally.

 

[debrann]

Totally agree, I think Ernst became more well known because he married Caroline

 

[fandesacs2003]

I think you most of the comments mix tabloid popularity and royal life.
Yes Caroline is worldwide known since the day 1 of her life. She has been followed by paparazzi all these years, her personal life had some high dramas attiring more the press coverage and "selling " a lot among popular press. The average people knew many details about her life. Also she has been attending, firstly with her parents and then acting as first Lady of Monaco, some very high events, but not royals, celebrities oriented.
All these happened also before marrying EA and being a HRH.
Furthermore, before her 3rd marriage, she has not attended high royal events such as royal weddings, simply because mainly Prince Albert was representing Monaco, and no additional attendant was planned, to enable Caroline to be invited.
She was not present at Prince Charles and Diana wedding, as her mother represented Monaco (I think with Prince Albert, but not sure).
Furthermore she was present to both Dutch, Denmark and Spanish royal weddings, not representing Monaco, but as wife of EA and consequently close family member (EA is close their cousin). And of course she was not present to William and Katherine wedding, as she was already estranged with her husband.
To cut the story short: before and after EA, Caroline was present in almost none Royal event such as wedding, anniversaries and baptisms. The only exception I can recall is the Luxemburg wedding, but I am not even sure is she was representing Monaco in the absence of Prince Albert.

Totally agree, I think Ernst became more well known because he married Caroline

 

[capri]

I think you most of the comments mix tabloid popularity and royal life.
Yes Caroline is worldwide known since the day 1 of her life. She has been followed by paparazzi all these years, her personal life had some high dramas attiring more the press coverage and "selling " a lot among popular press. The average people knew many details about her life. Also she has been attending, firstly with her parents and then acting as first Lady of Monaco, some very high events, but royals.
All these happened also before marrying EA and being a HRH.
Furthermore, before her 3rd marriage, she has not attended high royal events such as royal weddings, simply because mainly Prince Albert was representing Monaco, and no additional attendant was planned, to enable Caroline to be invited.
She was not present at Prince Charles and Diana wedding, as her mother represented Monaco (I think with Prince Albert, but not sure).
Furthermore she was present to both Dutch, Denmark and Spanish royal weddings, not representing Monaco, but as wife of EA and consequently close family member (EA is close their cousin). And of course she was not present to William and Katherine wedding, as she was already estranged with her husband.
To cut the story short: before and after EA, Caroline was present in almost none Royal event such as wedding, anniversaries and baptisms. The only exception I can recall is the Luxemburg wedding, but I am not even sure is she was representing Monaco in the absence of Prince Albert.

I totally agree with you, fandesacs2003.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think you most of the comments mix tabloid popularity and royal life.
Yes Caroline is worldwide known since the day 1 of her life. She has been followed by paparazzi all these years, her personal life had some high dramas attiring more the press coverage and "selling " a lot among popular press. The average people knew many details about her life. Also she has been attending, firstly with her parents and then acting as first Lady of Monaco, some very high events, but not royals, celebrities oriented.
All these happened also before marrying EA and being a HRH.
Furthermore, before her 3rd marriage, she has not attended high royal events such as royal weddings, simply because mainly Prince Albert was representing Monaco, and no additional attendant was planned, to enable Caroline to be invited.
She was not present at Prince Charles and Diana wedding, as her mother represented Monaco (I think with Prince Albert, but not sure).
Furthermore she was present to both Dutch, Denmark and Spanish royal weddings, not representing Monaco, but as wife of EA and consequently close family member (EA is close their cousin). And of course she was not present to William and Katherine wedding, as she was already estranged with her husband.
To cut the story short: before and after EA, Caroline was present in almost none Royal event such as wedding, anniversaries and baptisms. The only exception I can recall is the Luxemburg wedding, but I am not even sure is she was representing Monaco in the absence of Prince Albert.

Correct. Before his public fall from grace the Prince of Hannover simply was a respected royal, welcome at all royal courts, representing a House firmly rooted in the highest echelons of the Almanach de Gotha, widely expanded into almost all royal families, from Britain to Greece, from Prussia to the Netherlands, etc.

When Princess Caroline married the Prince of Hannover, it may not have changed much in the popular media, but her status changed from one of the children of Prince Rainier into HRH The Princess of Hannover.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Exactly, you hit the nail. She became a blood (by marriage) parent of most of the European royal families.

Correct. Before his public fall from grace the Prince of Hannover simply was a respected royal, welcome at all royal courts, representing a House firmly rooted in the highest echelons of the Almanach de Gotha, widely expanded into almost all royal families, from Britain to Greece, from Prussia to the Netherlands, etc.

When Princess Caroline married the Prince of Hannover, it may not have changed much in the popular media, but her status changed from one of the children of Prince Rainier into HRH The Princess of Hannover.

 

[Denville]

Hardlly a parent. She had one child by Ernest..and I find it hard to beleive that he was ever all that well respected, given how dreadfully he's behaved over many years.

 

[Stefan]

Correct. Before his public fall from grace the Prince of Hannover simply was a respected royal, welcome at all royal courts, representing a House firmly rooted in the highest echelons of the Almanach de Gotha, widely expanded into almost all royal families, from Britain to Greece, from Prussia to the Netherlands, etc.

As far as i remember Prince Ernst August did not attend much Events in the reigning Royal Houses in Europe before his marriage to Princess Caroline. perhaps the one or other Event in Spain and the UK because of his relations but i don't think he was present at royal Events in Denmark, or the Netherlands for example.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

As far as i remember Prince Ernst August did not attend much Events in the reigning Royal Houses in Europe before his marriage to Princess Caroline. perhaps the one or other Event in Spain and the UK because of his relations but i don't think he was present at royal Events in Denmark, or the Netherlands for example.

Yes he was. Prince Albert represented Monaco.
The Prince and Princess of Hannover were invited royal guests in Amsterdam as well: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2D41TM5/p...e-kerk-church-reuterspaul-vreeker-2D41TM5.jpg

 

[fandesacs2003]

Before his marriage to Princess Caroline, he was hardly known to social celebrity observers. Maybe he was known to the very addicted royal observers and specialists, but not to the average ones.
As for his potential attendance we do not known if he just did not want to attend, but indeed was invited to. I don't believe that he suddenly became invited only just after his marriage to Caroline.
I remember also in the beginning of their marriage, Caroline was with him to many inside Germany events related to the different royal and princely houses of Germany. I don't think she was invited as Rainier's daughter.
Interesting to see if he was invited to Prince Charles wedding with Diana, furthermore since his father was still alive , maybe father was there to represent the House of Hannover.
One if the few and maybe last events, related to royals he went, was the celebration of 50 years marriage of King Konstantine of Greece, being his first cousin.

As far as i remember Prince Ernst August did not attend much Events in the reigning Royal Houses in Europe before his marriage to Princess Caroline. perhaps the one or other Event in Spain and the UK because of his relations but i don't think he was present at royal Events in Denmark, or the Netherlands for example.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I find the assumption that Caroline WANTED to be accepted by the "highest levels of the Gotha" in the first place a bit of a stretch.

Her first two marriages give the lie to that theory.

She came very close to making a 3rd marriage to an actor, Vincent Lindon.

And by all accounts the 3rd marriage she did make was to a man she had known most of her life- Ernest von Hanover-but fell passionately in love with when she was approaching middle age. I doubt if the idea of being trotted out on his arm to high profile Royal weddings factored into her decision to marry him at all, based on her previous romantic choices.

In short...ALL of Princess Caroline's romantic choices seem to have been made with her heart and not her head.

As for her attendance at the 2012 Luxembourg Royal wedding of Guillaume and Stephanie, Caroline was indeed representing her brother Albert as he had been committed to a State visit (Poland?) at the time of the announcement of the wedding date. The fact that she was/is personally close to Grand Duke Henri and has known him since childhood made Caroline the perfect choice to stand in for Prince Albert at that wedding.

 

[Denville]

her behaviour has indeed been very odd. Her first two marriages were clearly love matches.. and then it was rumoured that she was in love with an actor.. but I never worked out why she didn't marry him. then she married Ernest who is "highly born" but far from a desiralbe husband. so it would seem that her main reason for marrying him MUST have been his "high birth".

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I am sure Princess Caroline did not care so much about, as her first two marriages show indeed. But the point was: when she married the (now disgraced) Prince of Hannover her status changed from one of Rainier's children into that of The Princess of Hannover.

Were the two not estranged now and was Prince Ernst August not so problematic, we would have seen the couple at more royal events.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I don't think that Caroline wed EA because of his royal position. If this was true, she would grab on him already at their youth ages. And if true she would have kept being with him still now.
Furthermore, she liked the Royal life with EA, she has been raised to be comfortable with, and she appreciated. For instance her sister, never liked protocol and royal events, Caroline yes.
And I don't believe either that Caroline does not divorce because of keeping the HRH. They have their reasons not to divorce, reasons unknown for us, but certainly not for this.

 

[Denville]

Given that she was apparently in love with someone else, an actor, I think its rather surprising that she didn't wed the actor. There were rumour that Rainier didn't like the idea, and possibly she gave way on this and then got involved iwht Ernest on the rebound.... As for not getting a divorce, they may well have complicated financial arrangements that are hard to unpick... or she may wish to keep her HRH...

 

[fandesacs2003]

Absolutely agree to all you said

I am sure Princess Caroline did not care so much about, as her first two marriages show indeed. But the point was: when she married the (now disgraced) Prince of Hannover her status changed from one of Rainier's children into that of The Princess of Hannover.

Were the two not estranged now and was Prince Ernst August not so problematic, we would have seen the couple at more royal events.

 

[Stefan]

Yes he was. Prince Albert represented Monaco.
The Prince and Princess of Hannover were invited royal guests in Amsterdam as well: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2D41TM5/p...e-kerk-church-reuterspaul-vreeker-2D41TM5.jpg

But that was after his Wedding Princess Caroline not before. Or did he attend dutch Royal Events before 1999?

 

[fandesacs2003]

Princess Caroline, before wedding EA attended zero royal events.
Prince EA we don't know as we barely knew him before he wed her.
So do you mean that all the royal events they attended together, after 1999, it was because she was invited and he accompanied her?
Attending Prince Felipe's wedding, (Queen Sofia and Prince EA are first cousins) was because Caroline was invited?
Same for Denmark, both are descendents of King Christian, is also because Caroline was invited?
The question is also, which major royal events took place in the period 1980 -1999? Out of the PoW marriage to Diana, I can remember the two Spanish infantas. I don't think Caroline was invited to one of them.
For Prince EA we need a search, as unknown to the celebrity press then.

But that was after his Wedding Princess Caroline not before. Or did he attend dutch Royal Events before 1999?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Given that she was apparently in love with someone else, an actor, I think its rather surprising that she didn't wed the actor. There were rumour that Rainier didn't like the idea, and possibly she gave way on this and then got involved iwht Ernest on the rebound.... As for not getting a divorce, they may well have complicated financial arrangements that are hard to unpick... or she may wish to keep her HRH...

According to Lindon, there were too many obstacles proposed by Prince Rainier and not objected to by Caroline that caused the romance between the two to go sour.

There was of course an air tight prenuptial agreement but what Lindon apparently truly objected to were certain religious requirements demanded by Rainier that I am not clear about...but I assume concerned demands that any children of the marriage must be baptized and educated as Catholics.

The reason I am confused ( if this is true) is that Rainier apparently did not make the same demand of Prince Ernest. Princess Alexandra was baptized Lutheran and remained so, until she converted to Catholicism as an adult.

 

[Stefan]

Princess Caroline, before wedding EA attended zero royal events.
Prince EA we don't know as we barely knew him before he wed her.
So do you mean that all the royal events they attended together, after 1999, it was because she was invited and he accompanied her?
Attending Prince Felipe's wedding, (Queen Sofia and Prince EA are first cousins) was because Caroline was invited?
Same for Denmark, both are descendents of King Christian, is also because Caroline was invited?
The question is also, which major royal events took place in the period 1980 -1999? Out of the PoW marriage to Diana, I can remember the two Spanish infantas. I don't think Caroline was invited to one of them.
For Prince EA we need a search, as unknown to the celebrity press then.

I thought that he was maybe invited to the spanish Royal Wedding's in 1995 and 1997 as there where plenty of german relatives of queen Sofia present but not really noticed by the Press and photographers.

I think after his marriage to Princess Caroline he was invited because of his marriage to her, because at the Weddings in Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Madrid she wasn't representing Monaco as Prince Albert went also to all of them.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Yes, she wasn't representing Monaco. She was accompanying her husband who was the real invitee.

I thought that he was maybe invited to the spanish Royal Wedding's in 1995 and 1997 as there where plenty of german relatives of queen Sofia present but not really noticed by the Press and photographers.

I think after his marriage to Princess Caroline he was invited because of his marriage to her, because at the Weddings in Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Madrid she wasn't representing Monaco as Prince Albert went also to all of them.

 

[Denville]

According to Lindon, there were too many obstacles proposed by Prince Rainier and not objected to by Caroline that caused the romance between the two to go sour.

There was of course an air tight prenuptial agreement but what Lindon apparently truly objected to were certain religious requirements demanded by Rainier that I am not clear about...but I assume concerned demands that any children of the marriage must be baptized and educated as Catholics.

The reason I am confused ( if this is true) is that Rainier apparently did not make the same demand of Prince Ernest. Princess Alexandra was baptized Lutheran and remained so, until she converted to Catholicism as an adult.

Well, if true, it doesn't look good, does it? Caroline jettisoned a man whom she was in love with, because of her father's demands.. and then married someone who wasn't a Catholic, not even a member of a ruling family, and who was certainly not a very likable individual. His only plus was that he was "royal".. albeit from a family that hadn't been ruling for almost a hundred years.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

His title was not his only plus. He was also fabulously wealthy and could maintain Caroline in even grander style than what she was accustomed to with great
castles and estates all over Europe and Africa.

At least no one could accuse the guy of gold digging.

 

[Denville]

His title was not his only plus. He was also fabulously wealthy and could maintain Caroline in even grander style than what she was accustomed to with great
castles and estates all over Europe and Africa.

At least no one could accuse the guy of gold digging.

Right.. so he had a lot of money and a "noble heritage".

 

[JR76]

Let's not forget that a big reason for Caroline marrying Ernst August was that they were a few months pregnant at the time of the wedding.

 

[capri]

Let's not forget that a big reason for Caroline marrying Ernst August was that they were a few months pregnant at the time of the wedding.

She probably wanted to get pregnant.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Correct, he was extremely wealthy, handsome man, of very high lineage, close to her all the time, and they had a beautiful baby daughter. He had all ..except one bad point. He was alcoholic, and unfortunately his marriage and life were destroyed from this.
As per the pregnancy I don't believe it was the reason she married him. She just wanted him, and she got pregnant.
Don't forget that also while marrying Stefano she was pregnant to Andrea.