Prince Albert's Older Children Part 1: 2009 - 2023

[Biri]

Alexandre will graduate and get the job, no problem.

 

[Denville]

Well, but this is a theory.... I bet, Prince Albert still supports Alexandre and his mother financially. And if this stops, they are in trouble.

And if they would go to a court whereever to sue Prince Albert to continue with this payments... - Good luck, since he enjoys legal immunity!

why would ALbert deprive his son and ex girlfriend of their income?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Well, but this is a theory.... I bet, Prince Albert still supports Alexandre and his mother financially. And if this stops, they are in trouble.

And if they would go to a court whereever to sue Prince Albert to continue with this payments... - Good luck, since he enjoys legal immunity!

He definitely finances their lifestyle.

 

[fandesacs2003]

I'm sure that Prince Albert will equally split his personal fortune between his 4 kids and his wife of course. Their right to the Monaco throne is another subject and for me there is no doubt that it belongs only to Jacques and Gabriella.
As for Alexandre, if it is true Prince Albert and Nicole had 5 years relationship being both unmarried. If Albert wanted to marry Nicole, make her the Princess of Monaco and their baby the heir ... nothing was empeaching him to do. But he didn't..
Why he will do it now?

Having a legal spouse and two heirs?

 

[hereditarytitles]

I'm sure that Prince Albert will equally split his personal fortune between his 4 kids and his wife of course. Their right to the Monaco throne is another subject and for me there is no doubt that it belongs only to Jacques and Gabriella.
As for Alexandre, if it is true Prince Albert and Nicole had 5 years relationship being both unmarried. If Albert wanted to marry Nicole, make her the Princess of Monaco and their baby the heir ... nothing was empeaching him to do. But he didn't..
Why he will do it now?

Having a legal spouse and two heirs?

The whole speculations about Alexandre and his mother all came up because of the interview in PdV , Nicoles presence at events starting with Charlene's illness (she didn't appear there before if I correctly remember). Plus the IG picture of Albert and his other children at the birthday party.
And WHO initiated all of this? Not Albert, but Nicole did.

(..)

 

[tommy100]

I agree that it seems some plan by Nicole, and it isn't very nice IMO. She has a nice life thanks to Albert (most likely) and shouldn't be trying to cause trouble for Charlene. If Albert had wanted her or their child to be in the RF and have an official role he would have married her before or after Alexandre was born. I wonder out of interest, if there a way Albert could change the laws and rules in a way which would now make it so Alexandre can't become eligible for the succession e.g. removing the clause allowing Alexandre to be legitimised by his parents one day marrying? I don' think Albert should do this but wonder how much leverage he may have to flex to Nicole if needed.

 

[Countessmeout]

He doesn't need leverage.

The laws don't need to change even if Nicole has some conspiracy for power through her son. The laws as they stand serve to keep her in her place. Unless Albert divorces his wife, and marries her, Alexandre is not becoming heir.

Nicole is living in dream land if she thinks Albert will marry her now. If he ever intended to marry her it would have been when they were together. She has to be really dreaming if she thinks he is going to push his wife out, ill or not, and get him to marry her after all this time.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I agree that it seems some plan by Nicole, and it isn't very nice IMO. She has a nice life thanks to Albert (most likely) and shouldn't be trying to cause trouble for Charlene. If Albert had wanted her or their child to be in the RF and have an official role he would have married her before or after Alexandre was born. I wonder out of interest, if there a way Albert could change the laws and rules in a way which would now make it so Alexandre can't become eligible for the succession e.g. removing the clause allowing Alexandre to be legitimised by his parents one day marrying? I don' think Albert should do this but wonder how much leverage he may have to flex to Nicole if needed.

She doesn’t come from a wealthy family so yes Albert definitely has been funding her lifestyle. When Alexandre was born, she had a house in the South of France with a car and luxuries. Plus Albert subsided her now defunct fashion business in London. As long as he doesn’t remarry to Nicole, then there’s no need to change anything.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I wonder out of interest, if there a way Albert could change the laws and rules in a way which would now make it so Alexandre can't become eligible for the succession e.g. removing the clause allowing Alexandre to be legitimised by his parents one day marrying?

The Constitution gives the Sovereign Prince the exclusive prerogative to initiate legislation (although Parliament must still vote through any bills), but I think it would be excessive to reform the Civil Code, which would affect all Monegasques, just for the sake of Albert II's hypothetical marriage to Nicole Coste.

A one-off addition to the house law, sovereign ordinance, etc. regulating the status of Alexandre personally would be a more efficient way of keeping him excluded from the succession to the throne, if that were to happen.

 

[tommy100]

Thank you Tatiana Maria!

I don't think Albert should or would change anything but just wanted to know if he could. Alexandre's mum is playing a dangerous game IMO, I hope Albert puts a stop to it soon.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

But why would it not be true for Jazmin? Neither the Civil Code, the House Law or the Constitution (all three documents have been linked on this page of this thread) make any distinction between children born from an extramarital affair and children born of two unmarried parents.




I believe his spokesman later clarified that they are in the line of succession to his private property.




No, Prince Louis II's out-of-wedlock daughter Charlotte was given inheritance rights to the principality of Monaco as well as the princely family fortune, but she was never legitimated. Various laws and decrees made explicit that if her father ever had legitimate children, they would displace her as his heir.

From the 1911 princely decree:



https://journaldemonaco.gouv.mc/Journaux/1911/Journal-2797

The 1911 law making Charlotte a dynast was found to be invalid under an 1882 statute so the princely decree went out the window with that. She was subsequently adopted by her father in 1918(I realize the validity of this is shaky because the law stated that the adopting party had to be at least 50 years old and Louis was 48). Charlotte only became Princess of Monaco and Duchess of Valentinois after she was adopted. After 1911 she was only called Charlotte Grimaldi de Monaco, Mademoiselle de Valentinois.

 

[Mirabel]

Albert has a vast fortune, and I'm sure he will see to it all his children are well-provided for.

But he considers Jacques his heir; I doubt that will ever change.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The 1911 law making Charlotte a dynast was found to be invalid under an 1882 statute so the princely decree went out the window with that. She was subsequently adopted by her father in 1918(I realize the validity of this is shaky because the law stated that the adopting party had to be at least 50 years old and Louis was 48). Charlotte only became Princess of Monaco and Duchess of Valentinois after she was adopted. After 1911 she was only called Charlotte Grimaldi de Monaco, Mademoiselle de Valentinois.

Correct, and the 1882 statute to which you refer was the (then) house law, which was issued in 1882 and remained valid (subject to amendments) until 2015. Read the original house law here:

https://journaldemonaco.gouv.mc/Journaux/1882/Journal-1258

Note that while it allowed for adoption, adopted children were still distinguished from legitimate children (Article 2).

 

[Granada]

I'm curious, does anyone REALLY think that Albert is going to set aside Charlene ? AND-OR raise up Alexandre as the brand new Heir ?
Uber 'mean girl', Nicole Coste might fantasize daily about that possibility, but it is NOT going to happen. C'mon......

Like other posters said, Albert needs to step up and speak to Alexandre, and ESPECIALLY his mom Nicole, to cut out the passive aggressive crap. That Nicole is NEVER to ever mention the reigning Princess of Monaco, Charlene, in public. AND cut out the "princely" signaling with stuff like the Birthday Cake embossed with the Monaco Coat of Arms.

*Maybe* Charlene has been dealing with these inter family stresses for a while, as Nicole seeks to insert herself into a quasi public role at events that Alexandre attends. Who knows WHAT goes on behind the scenes.

I guess I never thought of that before. Must be very challenging, as Nicole is no shrinking violet.
I hope Albert can get a handle on this. Quickly and decisively. For Charlene, Jacques and Gabriella's sake too. Also Alexandre too, spell out the reality of the situation, so he can accept and come to terms with his place in the family. A beloved son. Not Heir.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Here we are dealing with three highly hypothetical topics.
1.That Albert will divorce Charlene (or the opposite)
2.That Albert will marry Nicole
3. That Albert will be willing to deprive Jacques from being the hereditary heir in favor of Alexander


Even if 1. happens, 2 & 3 for me seem pure fiction...


By the way I presume that Alexandre bears Monaco nationality, correct?

 

[kyle]

I've been following this thread a long time. One thing that I have always appreciated was the notice at the beginning of the thread by the moderator. In this case, I am thinking about the rule against speculation about the motives of the mothers.

Added later...
I believe Alexandre will have a major role in the private business ventures of Prince Albert. He will never have a royal role, but I think he will work alongside his father and be a powerful man in the future.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

I have a question regarding the rules about who can use the surname Grimaldi. Upthread someone said that Albert controls who can use it in Monaco. How does that work with peope who travel there and happen to carry the surname Grimaldi? In many countries people can change their surnames to whatever they like. Where I live I can change my surname to Grimaldi or Windsor or Bernadotte. I don't have to have any connection to the surname I choose.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I have a question regarding the rules about who can use the surname Grimaldi. Upthread someone said that Albert controls who can use it in Monaco.

Again, the house law (and other Monegasque statutes) is available to consult online, so it is not only a matter of "someone said".

https://journaldemonaco.gouv.mc/Jou...2015-portant-statuts-de-la-Famille-Souveraine

Art. 2.

Membre de la Dynastie des Grimaldi, le Prince régnant en porte le nom.

Toute question relative à la dévolution du nom de Grimaldi peut être réglée par Décision Souveraine.​

How does that work with peope who travel there and happen to carry the surname Grimaldi? In many countries people can change their surnames to whatever they like.

I'm afraid I haven't looked into that. But in general, conflicts between different countries' name laws are unlikely to affect a mere traveler, as their passport and other travel documentation will be issued by the country where they have citizenship and will be regulated by the laws of that country. Dual citizens and people who are long-term legal residents of a foreign country are more likely to confront difficulties caused by differences between various countries' naming laws (for example, if someone with a double surname becomes a citizen of a country where the law prohibits double surnames).

 

[iceflower]

This thread has been cleaned up from personal arguments. Please stay respectful towards each other, for further personal exchanges please use the private message system. Remember that you can even put other members on your ignore list. Thank you!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I believe Alexandre will have a major role in the private business ventures of Prince Albert. He will never have a royal role, but I think he will work alongside his father and be a powerful man in the future.

He could even assist his younger brother Prince Jacques in some capacity, when Jacques comes to the throne.

I would love to see the siblings establish some sort of relationship. Why not? They are blood brothers.

 

[sophie25]

He could even assist his younger brother Prince Jacques in some capacity, when Jacques comes to the throne.

I would love to see the siblings establish some sort of relationship. Why not? They are blood brothers.

When Jacques is an adult he will decide whom he wants around him, this is why Nicole Coste is being short sighted. She has attacked Charlene on numerous occasions without possibly thinking that her son's long term future will depend on the goodwill of Charlene's children not Albert.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

When Jacques is an adult he will decide whom he wants around him, this is why Nicole Coste is being short sighted. She has attacked Charlene on numerous occasions without possibly thinking that her son's long term future will depend on the goodwill of Charlene's children not Albert.

How will this impact his future? Alexandre is already entitled to a share of his father’s assets after their father passes on so Alexandre won’t lose out on anything. Also, I think it’s wise if Alexandre finds something of his own to do that has nothing to do with the Principality. Plus Albert already financially supports them and has been doing so long before the twins were born.

 

[Granada]

Completely agree sophie25.

Yes, we know that Prince Albert's two eldest children will be very well provided for, but if this waspish and cruel behavior of Alexandre's Mother Nicole towards Charlene continues, I could definitely see Alexandre sidelined from Monaco Public Events in future, when Jacques assumes control.

Prince Jacques will *probably* inherit The Principality when young. He is only 8 and Prince Albert is already 65.

I know Albert is VERY preoccupied dealing with the fallout of the corruption scandal. But once that is hopefully resolved satisfactory, I hope Albert can get a firm handle on Nicole Coste's blatant and ongoing public disrespect of Charlene.

 

[kalnel]

When Jacques is an adult he will decide whom he wants around him, this is why Nicole Coste is being short sighted. She has attacked Charlene on numerous occasions without possibly thinking that her son's long term future will depend on the goodwill of Charlene's children not Albert.

Could you provide a credible source or link to examples of Nicole Coste "attacking" Charlene?

The only big interview Nicole has done was with Paris Match in 2021, and she makes few comments about Charlene, other than to say that she is not her enemy and doesn't like being compared to her. She also mentions the incident where Charlene supposedly moved Alexandre's room to the employees' wing of the palace.

But, she does not attack Charlene. She also claims that the Daily Mail fabricated a big story where her friends quoted her as saying negative things about Charlene.

BTW, in this interview Nicole says she put the name "Grimaldi-Coste" on Alexandre's passport when he was a child, and she would like for him to use the name Grimaldi, as Jazmin does. This is a bit different from what Alexandre said in Point de Vue a few weeks ago.

She also raises the status of "legitimacy" in this interview, raising the same points Alexandre did in Point de Vue. She says, "En bon français, et selon le Code civil, cela signifierait que ses deux parents auraient été engagés maritalement avec d’autres au moment de sa naissance, et que, de surcroît, il ne serait pas reconnu. Or ce n’était nullement le cas. Alexandre est né deux ans avant que ne commence l’idylle entre son père et Charlène en décembre 2005. Avant, ils s’étaient juste croisés. Il est faux de dire le contraire. Je tiens à le souligner, car ce doute a permis à la presse de continuer de faire croire que mon fils était illégitime."

She says Albert did verify paternity in front of a notary, who has attested to Albert's signature in court: "Contrairement aux directives données, le notaire a refusé de me remettre l’acte signé sous scellé prouvant que son père l’avait reconnu devant moi à l’âge de 3 mois. En sus, il a essayé d’exercer des pressions sur moi. Je n’avais pas ces papiers entre les mains, et si je ne les obtenais pas avant les 2 ans d’Alexandre, je n’avais plus aucune possibilité de recours en justice si le père changeait d’avis. En même temps que paraissait l’article de Paris Match, j’ai assigné le notaire devant le tribunal, et il a reconnu les faits."

 

[victor1319]

How will this impact his future? Alexandre is already entitled to a share of his father’s assets...

No, he is not! He would be "entitled" under French Law, but Monaco is not France and Prince Albert is a Prince Sovereign with absolute legal immunity (besides crimes against humanity and such - See Putin!).

Prince Albert can do as he likes! If he wants to give Alexandre money, if he wants him to inherit something, he will... If not, then not!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The only big interview Nicole has done was with Paris Match in 2021,

Thank you very much for linking to the full text of her 2021 Paris Match interview - it is not easy to find.

She also raises the status of "legitimacy" in this interview, raising the same points Alexandre did in Point de Vue. She says, "En bon français, et selon le Code civil, cela signifierait que ses deux parents auraient été engagés maritalement avec d’autres au moment de sa naissance, et que, de surcroît, il ne serait pas reconnu. Or ce n’était nullement le cas. Alexandre est né deux ans avant que ne commence l’idylle entre son père et Charlène en décembre 2005. Avant, ils s’étaient juste croisés. Il est faux de dire le contraire. Je tiens à le souligner, car ce doute a permis à la presse de continuer de faire croire que mon fils était illégitime."

It is interesting that Nicole Coste says "according to the Civil Code" when her comments clearly conflict with what the Civil Code states about legitimacy.

For example, Article 226-9 says:

Article 226-9
La légitimation peut bénéficier à tous les enfants nés hors du mariage pourvu que, par reconnaissance volontaire ou par jugement, leur filiation ait été légalement établie à l'égard de leurs deux auteurs.

Translation:
Legitimation may benefit all children born outside of marriage provided that, through voluntary recognition or through a judgment, their filiation has been legally established in regard to both their parents.
​

Therefore, all children born outside marriage can be legitimated, and there is no legal foundation for her claim that children born to married individuals outside of their marriages are less-legitimate than children born to unmarried individuals. (Is it a way of attempting to elevate her son above his half-sister Jazmin?)

In any case, Article 226-14 makes clear that her son is not legitimate according to the Civil Code:

Article 226-14
La légitimation confère à l'enfant légitimé les droits et les devoirs de l'enfant légitime.
Elle prend effet à la date du mariage.

Translation:
Legitimation confers on the legitimated child the rights and responsibilities of a legitimate child.
It takes effect on the date of the marriage.​

Unfortunately, her inaccurate statements invite the question of whether she intentionally misrepresented the contents of the Civil Code or based her claims on unreliable sources and did not do due diligence by checking the Civil Code herself.

Here is the link to the Civil Code, so that anyone may find the answers themselves:
https://legimonaco.mc/code/code-civil/

No, he is not! He would be "entitled" under French Law, but Monaco is not France and Prince Albert is a Prince Sovereign with absolute legal immunity (besides crimes against humanity and such - See Putin!).

Prince Albert can do as he likes! If he wants to give Alexandre money, if he wants him to inherit something, he will... If not, then not!

Monaco's Civil Code also entitles certain people, including the decedent's children, to a reserved share of the estate: see e.g. book III, section I.

But you raise an interesting point about sovereign immunity - does it mean the monarch's private property cannot be forced to follow the civil laws of inheritance?

 

[kalnel]

Thank you very much for linking to the full text of her 2021 Paris Match interview - it is not easy to find.



It is interesting that Nicole Coste says "according to the Civil Code" when her comments clearly conflict with what the Civil Code states about legitimacy.

For example, Article 226-9 says:

Article 226-9
La légitimation peut bénéficier à tous les enfants nés hors du mariage pourvu que, par reconnaissance volontaire ou par jugement, leur filiation ait été légalement établie à l'égard de leurs deux auteurs.

Translation:
Legitimation may benefit all children born outside of marriage provided that, through voluntary recognition or through a judgment, their filiation has been legally established in regard to both their parents.
​

Therefore, all children born outside marriage can be legitimated, and there is no legal foundation for her claim that children born to married individuals outside of their marriages are less-legitimate than children born to unmarried individuals. (Is it a way of attempting to elevate her son above his half-sister Jazmin?)

In any case, Article 226-14 makes clear that her son is not legitimate according to the Civil Code:

Article 226-14
La légitimation confère à l'enfant légitimé les droits et les devoirs de l'enfant légitime.
Elle prend effet à la date du mariage.

Translation:
Legitimation confers on the legitimated child the rights and responsibilities of a legitimate child.
It takes effect on the date of the marriage.​

Unfortunately, her inaccurate statements invite the question of whether she intentionally misrepresented the contents of the Civil Code or based her claims on unreliable sources and did not do due diligence by checking the Civil Code herself.

Here is the link to the Civil Code, so that anyone may find the answers themselves:
https://legimonaco.mc/code/code-civil/





Monaco's Civil Code also entitles certain people, including the decedent's children, to a reserved share of the estate: see e.g. book III, section I.

But you raise an interesting point about sovereign immunity - does it mean the monarch's private property cannot be forced to follow the civil laws of inheritance?

Section 226 pertains to children whose parents marry. If you read on to Section 232-237, it discusses filiation and recognition of illegitimate children. For fathers, it comes down to signing an official recognition, which, according to Nicole's court case, Albert did.

I agree with those who suggested that Albert's attorneys likely closed any loopholes, but I wouldn't be surprised if an attorney for Alexandre could make an interesting case.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Section 226 pertains to children whose parents marry. If you read on to Section 232-237, it discusses filiation and recognition of illegitimate children. For fathers, it comes down to signing an official recognition, which, according to Nicole's court case, Albert did.

Yes, but I was referring to Nicole's comments on legitimacy, not her comments on recognition. I don't think anyone has disputed that Alexandre is recognized, but according to Monaco's Civil Code, and contrary to what he and his mother have said, he is still illegitimate because his parents have never married.

All legitimate children are recognized, but not all recognized children are legitimate, under the Civil Code.

 

[kalnel]

Yes, but I was referring to Nicole's comments on legitimacy, not her comments on recognition. I don't think anyone has disputed that Alexandre is recognized, but according to Monaco's Civil Code, and contrary to what he and his mother have said, he is still illegitimate because his parents have never married.

All legitimate children are recognized, but not all recognized children are legitimate, under the Civil Code.

Yes, you're right -- good distinction.

I still have to wonder, though, if he couldn't make a case that as he is regarded as "legitimate" in France -- and recognized by his father -- he should have the same status in Monaco. (I realize that the countries have different laws, but I would have to think the courts would require reciprocity.)

 

[kalnel]

Charlene was probably not invited. In any case, there’s no need for Charlene to be there. The issue is Nicole’s lack of discretion and her constantly coming to events in the Principality concerning the family like the balls and galas.

While I'm sure it's annoying for Charlene to have Nicole appear at things, Nicole has no need to hide. She had a baby with Albert -- why shouldn't she attend whatever she wants.

Plus, these events aren't generally things that anyone off the street can walk in on. Someone is inviting her.