Mexico, the Mexican Empire, Emperor Maximilian & Empress Carlota, née of Belgium

[David V]

In the Yucatan, there are likely still descendants of Mayan royal houses around- more specifically the Xiu, Pacab and Cocom dynasties. The families survived into colonial times and afterwards. There are indigenous peoples throughout the Americas that have hereditary chiefs, which may be considered as indigenous nobility/aristocracy.

 

[norenxaq]

David: those are post-classical. if there are descendants of any Classical Mayan royalty, it is probably undocumented (I would like to see any documented lineages, if they exist
)

I am interested in genealogies of the Pacab and Cocom families

 

[David V]

One story I've heard was that when Queen Elizabeth II visited Mexico in the 70s, she was amazed to discover that a congressman was descended from one of the Post-Classic Mayan lineages.

 

[norenxaq]

what, if anything, do you know about that mayan lineage?

thank-you

 

[Cory]

Imperial Family of Mexico

It is rather strange that the grandmother of Don Maximiliano de Gotzen-Iturbide dies in a communist camp in Romania in 1949.Does anybody knows details about this subject?

Sefa Casei Imperiale a Mexicului persecutata de comunistii din Romania « Blogul Monarhist

casa imperial de Mexico

 

[Hereditary Thane]

The lady in question and her husband I believe had a residence in Transylvania. She was associated with Admiral von Horthy; this may have predisposed the communists to view her with some suspicon. However, to subject such an elderly lady to the privations of an internment camp is indefensible.

 

[Cory]

The communists did't realy need a pretext to make harm.They were just evil.

 

[Hereditary Thane]

The Dowager Princess Imperial, Maria Joseph was the step-daughter of Count Emil Jenison-Walworth - he married her mother in London circa 1900. My knowledge of the murdered lady, at Deva in 1949 is from family oral tradition and not to written primary sources. I guess, if her politics had been different, she may well have suffered at the hands of the fascist Iron Guard or White Arrow.

 

[Kasumi]

Last Aztec Emperor's feather headdress to be presented in Mexico

The Mexican government says talks with Austria which lasted for three years on a temporary return of a feather headdress associated with the last Aztec emperor could be a model for the return of other hotly contested artifacts. The temporary exchange could give Mexico the headdress on loan from Austria, while Mexico could send back a gilded carriage once used by a member of Austria's royal family who ruled Mexico in the 1860s.
Emperor Montezuma reportedly gave his headdress to conqueror Hernan Cortes.
The exchange would recognize each country's rights to the headdress as "common cultural legacy." - Canadian Press

 

[David V]

"The Last Kings" Yucatan, Mexico - Jay Dunn, photojournalist

http://www.osea-cite.org/class/readings/Castillo-Cocom_Maya_PRInces.pdf

These talk about the Mayan royal descendants in modern Mexico.

 

[Cory]

Are the members of the Mexican Imperial Family interested to return to the country of their ancestors?

 

[Richardhwinn]

Hey does anyone know if the children of Countess Emma von Gotzen, Princess of Mexico had any descendants and if so where can i find this information? Thank you.

 

[Kasumi]

Hey does anyone know if the children of Countess Emma von Gotzen, Princess of Mexico had any descendants and if so where can i find this information? Thank you.

Do you mean a daughter or a sister of HH Count Maximiliano de Götzen-Itúrbide?
Because they have the same name 'Emma'. I suppose - it's the sister, who lives in Western Australia.
At the official site of the Imperial House of Mexico only her 7 children are mentioned. Why not to write an e-mail to the Imperial House for further details?

 

[Richardhwinn]

Sorry, I meant this sister, and I went to the website but I couldnt find a email address. Thanks anyways

 

[Kasumi]

The Mad Monarchist blog is a good resource. He lives in southern Texas, so Mexico is essentially local history for him. Try to contact him, Richardhwinn.
Hope this will help.

 

[HaroldRoberts]

Emperor Maximilian of Mexico

Without doubt, the greatest man who ever lived.

 

[Komtesse Rosaire]

So is there a pretender to the Imperial Throne?

 

[MAfan]

Yes, there is: Maximilian von Götzen-Itúrbide, Head of the House of Iturbide. He is a descendants of both Emperor Augustin I (by blood) and Emperor Maximiliano (by adoption). He is the pretender to the throne since 1949.

Here is his biography from his official website:
casa imperial de Mexico

 

[Cory]

Noblesse & Royautés » Exposition « Charlotte de Belgique. Les années heureuses »

 

[MarcosFenn]

To American perceptions shortly before World War One, the history of the French promotion of Emperor Maximilian 50 years earlier formed a background to the especially strong hostility to Germany's plan to 'allow' Mexico to annex formerly Mexican lands in the Southwestern US.

When the British intelligence service, therefore, leaked the contents of the Zimmermann Telegram, containing the German plan, to the US authorities, it knew that US reaction would be hugely angry and hostile. It was thus judged worthwhile to fake a robbery where the British supposedly 'discovered' the Zimmermann Telegram, and then they 'helpfully' showed it to the US mission in London, thus avoiding the implication that the British had been reading the coded communications to Washington, DC., but currying favor with the US, whose assistance as an ally in World War One was strongly desired.

The British intelligence service thus reckoned correctly that, just as the US resented French promotion of Emperor Maximilian of Mexico during the American Civil War, as a European interference in Western Hemispheric affairs, so also the US, with memories of the sinking of the Lusitania, would also hugely resent the Zimmermann Telegram.

There is thus an undoubted historical and geopolitical link between Mexican Emperor Maximilian's short reign and the events 50 years later which led to the US entering World War One on the side of the British, the French, and the Italians.

In the event, Mexican President Don Feliciano Carranza, rejected the contents of the Zimmermann Telegram's proposals, but it was deemed somewhat irrelevant in the US in any case: the US had already declared war on Germany.

(Read: 'Venustiano Carranza')

 

[CyrilVladisla]

It was informative to learn that Archduke Maximilian was approached twice with an offer to be made Emperor of Mexico.
The first occurrence was in 1859.
The second occurrence was in 1863.
​

 

[Blog Real]

Who is the current pretender to the throne of Mexico?

 

[Ish]

Count Maximilian von Götzen-Iturbide. He is the son of the younger daughter (Maria Gisella) of the daughter (Maria Josepha), of the adopted son (Salvador) of Maximilian I, who was also the biological son of the son (Salvador Maria) of Augustín I.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Charlotte's sad life in pictures and portraits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvXAjM9shMc

 

[maria-olivia]

Thanks for sharing this pictures of all heir life, I never saw some at the end.
I do not know where her beatiful jewels are ?
She was as her Father an ambitious Women and wore the surname of Leopold first beloved wife.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Thanks for sharing this pictures of all heir life, I never saw some at the end.
I do not know where her beatiful jewels are ?
She was as her Father an ambitious Women and wore the surname of Leopold first beloved wife.

maria-olivia, I am happy that you like the pictures of Charlotte. You brought up an excellent fact of history: Where are her jewels? Charlotte and Maximilian had no children who would have perhaps inherited the jewels. Were some jewels from her parents? Were some jewels from her brother-in-law, Francis Joseph I?

 

[Curryong]

I've got no doubt that Carlotta received presents of jewels from her parents and from Max's family at the time of her wedding.

I seem to remember reading that Empress Carlotta's personal jewellery (the Mexican Crown Jewels remained in Mexico) was smuggled out of the country by a female friend of the couple. Some may have been immediately sold, I suppose, in order to facilitate Maximilian's fight to stay on the throne after the French withdrawal.

A poster on this thread or similar wrote years ago however that after Carlotta was permanently confined in a castle in Belgium her brother King Leopold II then proceeded to loot her fortune (and presumably her jewellery) in order to help finance his personal fiefdom in the Congo. We know what happened there. This very unpleasant individual was determined to take the country's resources and enrich himself.

This poster had written a thesis on Leopold and his actions in the Congo and had read documents showing that Leopold had no compunction about taking his sister's wealth.

Carlotta lived for a very long, long time and it appears there wasn't much of a fortune left when she died. Probably her jewellery had been quietly disposed of through Europe's gemstone markets in Amsterdam and elsewhere long before.

 

[MAfan]

I also seem to recall a similar story, that her vast assets were managed by her brother Leopold II (or by someone else close to him, I don't remember well), but basically her money was used to finance the King's venture in Congo.
IIRC the story was explained in Charlotte's biography by Prince Michael of Greece; though I read it many years ago and can't remember all the details. I'll try in the next days to check it.

 

[MAfan]

I finally managed to retrieve Empress Charlotte's biography (written by Prince Michael of Greece).
With regards to Empress Charlotte's fortune and inheritance, it says that when King Leopold II died in 1909 his daughters were counting on inheriting his huge assets, to which Charlotte's assets had been blended (it mentions that Charlotte's assets were worth 60 millions, which at some point redoubled).
It eventually turned out that the King left in his will "only" 15 millions, which should have been divided among his daughter. The books also mention that in his will the King wrote that in his lifetime, by virtue of his position and the trust of some people in him, he had managed enormous sums of money which didn't belong to him. The author suggests that he was referring (also) to Charlotte's money, squandered in the Congolese venture.
Eventually - the book continues - the King's daughter had many researches done to find out what had happened to the money of the King and of Empress Charlotte, but they failed to discover that.

So, apparently, Charlotte's money has been (badly) managed by King Leopold II and it vanished together with most of the King's fortune.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

So does anybody think the Mexican people would say that overthrowing both the first and second empires was worth it?

-Frozen Royalist