Dutch State Visit to Sweden; October 11-13, 2022

Duc_et_Pair · Oct 12, 2022

Mbruno said:
Apparently no Dutch order for Carl Philip as he was wearing the Seraphim at the arrival reception. Maybe he will change into a Dutch order in the evening if he indeed got one.

It is a pity that King Willem Alexander cannot wear military uniform. His business suit doesn't match well with King Carl Gustaf's and Prince Carl Philip's attire.

It appears that, as in Denmark, Willem-Alexander and Maxima used an Air Force plane rather than taking a commercial flight.

I am also surprised that Princess Estelle was also present at the Palace. I understand she is second in line to the throne, but isn't she too young to take part in a state visit?

The Dutch royals have the strange habit to cram their agendas full to the max. Directly after the welcome ceremony they had audiences with the Prime Minister and with the Chair of the Parliament.

This means: no time to exchange a military uniform into a business suit. It would be awkward for the King to visit the Government and Parliament dressed in a naval uniform, with sword and Swedish Orders.

In Ye Olde days there was plenty of time to change outfits. Queen Beatrix used to have three outfits during each day of a State Visit (morning, afternoon, evening) ! It is their very own frantic schedule - no any need to do - which most likely was the reason why the King choose for civil wear.

PS - the King did not take a plane from the Netherlands Royal Air Force but from the Government fleet (which consists of one Boeing 737 Business Jet and two Gulfstreams 650).

wartenberg7 · Oct 12, 2022

Duc_et_Pair said:
The Dutch royals have the strange habit to cram their agendas full to the max. Directly after the welcome ceremony they had audiences with the Prime Minister and with the Chair of the Parliament.

This means: no time to exchange a military uniform into a business suit. It would be awkward for the King to visit the Government and Parliament dressed in a naval uniform, with sword and Swedish Orders.

but the (dutch) King didn´t wear a military uniform anyway and arrived in a business suit for this st. visit...?

Mbruno · Oct 12, 2022

I was wondering if Prince Daniel being awarded a lower Dutch order than his wife might not be a matter of reciprocity. When King Willem-Alexander was Prince of Orange, he was awarded the order of the Seraphim (without collar), but Princess Maxima was made only a Commander Grand Cross of the order of the Polar Star.

I still don't understand though why Prince Daniel was not given the order of Orange-Nassau rather than the House order (now the order of the Crown when awarded to foreigners). The House order is a dynastic order as opposed to the order of the Netherlands Lion and the order of Orange-Nassau, which are state orders countersigned by the Dutch ministers. Does that mean that the government did not approve any award for Prince Daniel and that he only received his order in the personal gift of King Willem-Alexander?

Marengo · Oct 12, 2022

wartenberg7 said:
but the (dutch) King didn´t wear a military uniform anyway and arrived in a business suit for this st. visit...?

The Dutch king stopped wearing militairy uniforms all together after his enthronement, except during military events IIRC.

An Ard Ri · Oct 12, 2022

Marengo said:
The Dutch king stopped wearing military uniforms all together after his enthronement, except during militairy events IIRC.

Ok that makes sense as I was also wondering.

Stefan · Oct 12, 2022

Mbruno said:
I was wondering if Prince Daniel being awarded a lower Dutch order than his wife might not be a matter of reciprocity. When King Willem-Alexander was Prince of Orange, he was awarded the order of the Seraphim (without collar), but Princess Maxima was made only a Commander Grand Cross of the order of the Polar Star.

Wasn't i hinted last year that it also has something to do with the swedish Protocol or so.
And the order of the Polar Star is gvien to all spouses of heirs also to Crown Princesses Mary and Mette-Marit

Atr last from Norway Daniel got order of St. Olav the same on as Victoria.

Mbruno · Oct 12, 2022

LadyFinn said:
Luncheon at Stockholm City Hall.
Profimedia gallery

Legion-Media has updated their gallery from the first day, previously posted links don't work:
Legion-Media

SPA published a video from the gala dinner.

Apparently, this Lady in green was wearing the sash and star of her Dutch order on the wrong side of the torso.

Stefan said:
Wasn't i hinted last year that it also has something to do with the swedish Protocol or so.
And the order of the Polar Star is gvien to all spouses of heirs also to Crown Princesses Mary and Mette-Marit

Atr last from Norway Daniel got order of St. Olav the same on as Victoria.

Yes, under current regulations , the order of the Seraphim can only be awarded to heads of State (or people of equivalent rank) or to members of the Swedish Royal House. The Swedish King already pushes the envelope so to speak by awarding the order to queens consort and heirs (and uses the collar as a special honor to certain heads of state, like European monarchs or some presidents). Giving the Seraphim to wives of heirs would deviate too much from the intention of the order regulations.

My point, however, was that, since Maxima as Princess of the Netherlands could not receive the same Swedish order as her husband as Prince of Orange, it is natural that Prince Daniel, by reciprocity, should not be given the same Dutch order as Crown Prince Victoria. The order of the Netherlands Lion is not as exclusive as the order of the Seraphim, but, as far Victoria is concerned, awarding her the Netherlands Lion was equivalent to Willem-Alexander having been admitted as a Knight of the Seraphim as Prince of Orange.

wartenberg7 · Oct 12, 2022

Marengo said:
The Dutch king stopped wearing militairy uniforms all together after his enthronement, except during military events IIRC.

I know that. I was referring to the remark that, due to a very tight time schedule, he had not enough time to change from military uniform to business suit between official engagements at the state visit.

Stefan said:
Wasn't i hinted last year that it also has something to do with the swedish Protocol or so.
And the order of the Polar Star is gvien to all spouses of heirs also to Crown Princesses Mary and Mette-Marit

Atr last from Norway Daniel got order of St. Olav the same on as Victoria.

Yes, but he obviously is differently treated comparing to CPss Mary of Denmark (perhaps she is a future Queen?), who also received The Order of the Netherlands Lion, just as CP Frederik.

LadyFinn · Oct 12, 2022

Legion-Media has updated their gallery from the first day, previously posted links don't work:
Legion-Media

Robin Utrecht's gallery from the gala dinner
staatsbanket zweden 2022 staatsbezoek - Images _ Robin Utrecht _ Photoshelter

Some beautiful photos of Victoria at the gala dinner
https://d0.momapix.com/legionmedia/....394868456436dbe743e4380554c0493a&w=833&h=516
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...the-state-banquet-at-the-picture-id1243900989
https://d1.momapix.com/legionmedia/....f42c7f9c8aeab0fc412031e192e2119d&w=833&h=516
https://d0.momapix.com/legionmedia/....3335881e06d4d23091389226225e17c7&w=833&h=516

SPA published a video from the gala dinner.

Tord Magnuson told Svensk Damtidning his feelings from yesterday:
- You feel a little rusty in some way, to put on the coat the right way, but I don't think I need to be ashamed.
- It was a very nice dinner, it was incredibly good food and a very lovely and positive atmosphere. The food was exceptionally good. It must be fun for the person responsible for the food storage to hear. Cooking for 170 people and presenting it nicely requires knowledge.
Tord Magnusons ord om festkvällen med Máxima och Willem-Alexander_ _Känner mig ringrostig_ _*Svensk Dam

Photos from the return reception/concert with Tim Kliphuis Ensemble at Stockholm Concert Hall.
https://m.psecn.photoshelter.com/im.../fit=1000x750/g=G0000hy8raIeeomE/1RU-3524.jpg
https://m.psecn.photoshelter.com/im.../fit=1000x750/g=G0000hy8raIeeomE/1RU-4895.jpg
https://m.psecn.photoshelter.com/im.../fit=1000x750/g=G0000hy8raIeeomE/1RU-3483.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fe45gW6WYAMXXTG?format=jpg&name=small

Victoria and Daniel
https://sun9-54.userapi.com/impg/4F...n=baf917d8c20122d20ea1001655eb41d7&type=album

Profimedia gallery
Legion-Media gallery

Glamourchock! Victoria vinner stilkampen under kungliga festkvällen _*Svensk Dam

The Swedish Royal Court has updated photos of the second day to its website.
Statsbesök från Nederländerna _ Kungahuset

Duc_et_Pair · Oct 12, 2022

Mbruno said:
I was wondering if Prince Daniel being awarded a lower Dutch order than his wife might not be a matter of reciprocity. When King Willem-Alexander was Prince of Orange, he was awarded the order of the Seraphim (without collar), but Princess Maxima was made only a Commander Grand Cross of the order of the Polar Star.

I still don't understand though why Prince Daniel was not given the order of Orange-Nassau rather than the House order (now the order of the Crown when awarded to foreigners). The House order is a dynastic order as opposed to the order of the Netherlands Lion and the order of Orange-Nassau, which are state orders countersigned by the Dutch ministers. Does that mean that the government did not approve any award for Prince Daniel and that he only received his order in the personal gift of King Willem-Alexander?

All Orders are "negotiated" with the hosts and we know the Dutch are not too frugal with Orders. It must have been the outcome of the "negotiations" that no any other - besides Crown Princess Victoria - received a State Order.

All other given Orders were in the Crown Order (Order of the House of Orange). This is no State Order, no Koninklijk Besluit (Royal Decree) needed with a ministerial contraseign but a Hofbesluit (Court Decree) signed by the King alone.

Again the highest State Order was given to a Heir (like to Frederik and Mary) but it was not given to the Prince of Wales... Queen Beatrix never gave the highest State Order to Heirs. So it depends very much on the "negotiations".

At the other hand: it is strange to see members of the Swedish Government, Parliament and Household with a State Order (Order of Orange-Nassau) while Daniel, Carl Philip, Sofia, Christina and Tord wore "just" a House Order.

I can only explain it as a consequence of diplomatic reciprocating.

Countessmeout · Oct 12, 2022

An Ard Ri said:
Ok that makes sense as I was also wondering.

Part of taking the throne in the Netherlands requires leaving the military. He was discharged. Unlike Carl Gustav he doesn't have any current rank.

As many veterans do, he will wear it for military events.

Duc_et_Pair · Oct 13, 2022

Countessmeout said:
Part of taking the throne in the Netherlands requires leaving the military. He was discharged. Unlike Carl Gustav he doesn't have any current rank.

As many veterans do, he will wear it for military events.

The King has as "rank": the King. He is the only one whom wears the royal insignia (orb, sceptre, sword) on the uniform of a supreme officer:

picture

It is a missed opportunity for some more ceremonial at the arrival ceremony. Carl XVI Gustaf did his best. Willem-Alexander chose for a boring suit.

Countessmeout · Oct 13, 2022

Duc_et_Pair said:
The King has as "rank": the King. He is the only one whom wears the royal insignia (orb, sceptre, sword) on the uniform of a supreme officer:

picture

It is a missed opportunity for some more ceremonial at the arrival ceremony. Carl XVI Gustaf did his best. Willem-Alexander chose for a boring suit.

King is not a military rank.

He was officially discharged in 2013. He can for military events wear the uniform of his last rank. Like other veterans. A state visit is NOT a military event so improper for him to wear. Its not a tux.

Carl Gustav and his son are considered active military, they hold current ranks. It is proper for them to wear if they choose.

Duc_et_Pair · Oct 13, 2022

Countessmeout said:
King is not a military rank.

He was officially discharged in 2013. He can for military events wear the uniform of his last rank. Like other veterans. A state visit is NOT a military event so improper for him to wear. Its not a tux.

Carl Gustav and his son are considered active military, they hold current ranks. It is proper for them to wear if they choose.

There are plenty of royals who do not have any active military career but wear fancy uniforms nonetheless. It is really a personal choice of the King to wear an uniform during this State Visit or not, als the welcome ceremony was a very military event anyway.

The Dutch Government holds the supreme command over the Armed Forces. The King is a member of said Government. This would mean that military inside Government would act as "their own supreme commander".

The current Dutch Minister of the Interior is in the same position as her fellow member of Government, the King: she was a commander a Panzer Howitzer battle group in Afghanistan but when she took a seat in Government, she had to lay down her military commissions as well.

With the future Queen Victoria and the future Queen Estelle we will see if their husbands have anything to do with the mlitary. It is possible the use of mlitary uniforms by royals will "fade out" in Sweden as well.

LadyFinn · Oct 13, 2022

The royal couples have arrived to Gothenburg for the last day of the visit.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580481433230987264

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580481785980342272

Photos by SPA
Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 ** Pic 5 ** Pic 6 ** Pic 7 ** Pic 8

Helicopter surveillance, road closures and changes to public transport. These are some of the consequences for the citizens of Gothenburg when Dutch and Swedish royalty are visiting the city.
Trafiken i Göteborg påverkas av kungligt besök _ GP

King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia, in the company of the Dutch royal couple, will visit Volvo and the port of Gothenburg to talk about green transition. But to get to Gothenburg, the royals use the government plane and the day ends with a ceremony at Landvetter Airport.
Kungen och drottning Silvia besöker Volvo och hamnen _ Bohusläningen

Willem-Alexander praised Stockholm yesterday at his speech at the luncheon at the City Hall:
Brief remarks by His Majesty King Willem-Alexander at a lunch hosted by the Mayor of Stockholm, Anna König Jerlmyr, and the President of the City Council of Stockholm, Cecilia Brinck, in Stockholm City Hall _ Speech _ Royal Hou

Willem-Alexander's speech today at a luncheon hosted by the Governor of Västra Götaland County, Sten Tolgfors.
Brief remarks by His Majesty King Willem-Alexander at a lunch hosted by the Governor of Västra Götaland County, Sten Tolgfors, in Gothenburg _ Speech _ Royal House of the Netherlands

Video by SPA

iceflower · Oct 13, 2022

Here are some more photos of the final day today, October 13:

** robinutrecht.photoshelter gallery ** ppe gallery ** gtresnews gallery **

** gettyimages gallery: SWE: Day 3 - Dutch Royals Visit Sweden ** anp gallery ** rex gallery **

Somebody · Oct 13, 2022

Next to the part about Amalia's security situation, Willem-Alexander did also mention during the press meeting that Amalia (godchild) and Victoria (godmother) call each other often - and he really liked the surprise of his goddaughter attending the lunch on the first day.

Alisa · Oct 13, 2022

Awww...I really liked the video of Queen Maxima trying to console the crying little girl and giving her a flower from her bouquet. What a heart-warming moment!

Countessmeout · Oct 13, 2022

Duc_et_Pair said:
There are plenty of royals who do not have any active military career but wear fancy uniforms nonetheless. It is really a personal choice of the King to wear an uniform during this State Visit or not, als the welcome ceremony was a very military event anyway.

The Dutch Government holds the supreme command over the Armed Forces. The King is a member of said Government. This would mean that military inside Government would act as "their own supreme commander".

The current Dutch Minister of the Interior is in the same position as her fellow member of Government, the King: she was a commander a Panzer Howitzer battle group in Afghanistan but when she took a seat in Government, she had to lay down her military commissions as well.

With the future Queen Victoria and the future Queen Estelle we will see if their husbands have anything to do with the mlitary. It is possible the use of mlitary uniforms by royals will "fade out" in Sweden as well.

Each country has its own rules.

Its not about active duty. Its about being in the military. British royals and such who wear uniform are Still in the military. They hold current ranks. Its why Harry had to have permission to wear an uniform during services for his grandmother. He is only a veteran now, he lost his military ranks.

Daniel will not wear military uniform as its not a costume. He has no military rank. Its not a childish game of dress up.

A state visit is not a military event.

On to actual important events:

I loved the moment between Maxima and the little girl. It was sweet. :flowers:

Mbruno · Oct 14, 2022

Countessmeout said:
King is not a military rank.

He was officially discharged in 2013. He can for military events wear the uniform of his last rank. Like other veterans. A state visit is NOT a military event so improper for him to wear. Its not a tux.

Carl Gustav and his son are considered active military, they hold current ranks. It is proper for them to wear if they choose.

I believe King Carl Gustaf holds honorary ranks only and is not considered "active military". His ranks are, however, the highest in the 3 services.

Kungen är Försvarsmaktens främste representant. Han är amiral i flottan samt general i armén och flygvapnet. Kungen är hederschef för Livgardet och Livregementets husarer.

Source

Official English version

I wonder if Victoria as Queen will hold honorary ranks in the Armed Forces too.

JR76 · Oct 14, 2022

Mbruno said:
I wonder if Victoria as Queen will hold honorary ranks in the Armed Forces too.

I've been thinking about that since I saw the comment above about the "phasing out" of military titles in the Royal family. As we know Victoria undergoes military training every year so I don't find it impossible that she'll get some honorary titles in the future to continue the monarchy s association with the Armed forces. Especially now when the Veteran's day is becoming more and more high-profile and Sweden might join Nato meaning that we in the future will have soldiers in active duty somewhere in the world.

LadyFinn · Oct 15, 2022

Information from the various program points during the visit.

From Facebook of The Vasa Museum
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Wallenberg and the royal couple lobbied for Swedish submarines
The Dutch royal couple met their Swedish counterpart and a number of Swedish business leaders at a round table at the Grand Hôtel on Wednesday.
One of the issues that was discussed was submarines, says Jacob Wallenberg, chairman of the board of the Confederation of Swedish Enterprise. Saab hopes to sell this to the country, and will submit a quote soon.
Wallenberg och kungaparet lobbade för svenska ubåtar

The royal houses from the Netherlands and Sweden visited the Host Agency
"The state visit's interest in green innovation shows the international scope of the climate issue"
Kungahusen från Nederländerna och Sverige besökte Värtaverket - Stockholm Exergi

SciLifeLab had the honor to welcome Their Majesties from the Netherlands and Sweden to visit the national research infrastructure SciLifeLab and learn more about technologies to study cells and initiatives for precision medicine.
SciLifeLab welcomes Their Majesties from the Netherlands and Sweden - SciLifeLab

Short video from Gothenburg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580505371206045696

Photos from Facebook of the County of Västra Götaland
The first photo is the group photo of the royal couples with Sten Tolgfors, the governor of Västra Götaland County.
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Lindholmen Science Park was first on the program when the Dutch and Swedish royal couples arrived in Gothenburg during the state visit. With interest and curiosity, they were able to learn how Lindholmen's ecosystem drives innovation for increased Swedish competitiveness through the various skills and commitment of a variety of actors.
Kungligheter med passion för innovation _ Lindholmen Science Park

The Dutch royal couple's state visit ended at the Volvo Group, where Queen Máxima in high heels was seen balancing into an excavator.
Both she and husband King Willem-Alexander also got to test drive the truck, before being waved off at a grand farewell ceremony at Landvetter Airport.
Göteborg_ Nederländska kungaparets besök på Volvo

Finnish royal blogger, who lives in Gothenburg, writes at her blog with some good photos, that she received information in advance from the court that the royal ferry would arrive at the Stenpiren pier around 12.00. In the spring, Victoria, Daniel and Haakon also went to hang out at the same place. The governor's residence, where the royals had their luncheon, is located a few hundred meters away.
There was an audience of several hundred people, a large part of the audience clearly got there by accident, because Stenpiren is a hub for public transport. However, the crowd was clearly excited, and almost everyone had small flags handed out by the city representative. Both teenagers and seniors seemed interested in this spectacle, although clearly many had no idea who was expected.
Around 11.40, the police directed the public behind the isolation tape, leaving a wide corridor for the royal entourage between the tape and the opposite bus and tram stops. The blogger got a bit of a bad seat, where she couldn't see the royal couples step out of the ferry, but she could still see all of them as they walked past. She was tactical and went around the travel center to get ahead of the royals during their walk. The little spurt was worth it, and she managed to take a few more photos. Filming is difficult, because there are always a lot of people around the royals, even though theaudience is separated from them. There are staff, police and journalists around, so it's hard to get good footage. You also don't know in advance whether the royals will stay to greet the audience or just walk by.
Ruotsin ja Alankomaiden kuningasparit Göteborgissa

Style icon Máxima is certainly not easy to compete against, but despite this, many agree that Victoria won the fashion battle this time.
Frossa i glamour! Hon klädde sig bäst under statsbesöket från Nederländerna _*Svensk Dam

Victoria and Willem-Alexander at Arlanda Airport, photo by Henric Wauge.
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Nils van der Poel, swedish speedskater and Olympic Champion in 5000 and 10000 meters at the Olympic Games in Beijing in 2022, was invited to the gala dinner of the state visit. Nils van der Poel has a dutch grandfather.
Van der Poel declined the King's invitation, which he talks about in episode of the Carina Bergfeldt talk show on SVT (recorded last Tuesday).
- It would have been very nice to be able to clone yourself sometimes, but when you need to do that, you often have to look to whom I promised first, and then you have to stand by that word, he says.
- So you refused the King's invitation to come here? Carina Bergfeldt asks.
- Unfortunately, I had to do it, says Nils, and is met with resounding applause and laughter from the audience.
Carina Bergtfeldt seems very pleased with being chosen over the King himself and that the TV-production was out in such good time.
- It was very nice, we are very happy that you are here.
Nils Van der Poels diss mot kungen_ ”Var tvungen” _ Hänt

SPA published a summary video of the state visit just a couple of minutes ago

Dutch State Visit to Sweden; October 11-13, 2022

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