"Courtiers, The Hidden Power Behind The Crown" by Valentine Low (2022)

[HRHHermione]

Here's the third excerpt from the book by Valentine Low.



https://archive.ph/R15hy

I just finished reading it. This one is quieter than the other two and a bit more thoughtful. I think he’s right that the gap between what they wanted and what would be acceptable for members of the royal family was far too great.

I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion this is ultimately better for Harry though. His life is now just as public but with far fewer privileges.

 

[Alison H]

That's quite critical of everyone. No-one seems to have handled things very well. But I think it's true that there just wasn't a compromise.

"The view from the palace establishment was that, however much time Harry and Meghan spent away from royal duties, anything they did would reflect on the institution."

I think it's hard to argue with that, especially if they wanted to "dip their toes into American politics" and be involved in commercial ventures.

 

[Claire]

I must admit the VL is much more sympathetic then I expect him to be - but that might just be the exact. He know that the original date of the Oprah interview, the time that Royal Sussex was setup and patented. The website and its contents - all the maneuvering by Sunshine Sachs as early as several months after the wedding. None of that behavior sounds like people willing to go to a negotiation table.

With regard to Megan feeling suicidal - I actually thought by now she would have downplayed what she said in the interview. There are several reasons for that - it was one of the largest counter points in the interview for several reasons. She did not discuss how she recovered, Harry's response about not knowing what to do when he himself is in therapy and is patron to a number of mental health charities. The fact that members of the royal family have round the clock medical care- yep they just have to hit the operator to get urgent care in all houses. As Meghan was pregnant she also would have had other doctors looking after her - anyone who has been pregnant in the UK in the last 10 years knows that that doctors, nurses and doulas are now training trained to look at for pre and post natal depression. And yes - they ask several times if you are okay? There is also 3 facilities within 1 hrs from Windsor estates, there is a narcotics and drugs one nearby Sandhurst - which Harry must be very aware of. And a depression, breakdown and anxiety clinic specially allowing people feeling social to walk in nearby as well. Essentially the stories don't add up.
And as much as I don't want to and don't like lessening anyone emotional state and how they viewed something. I wouldn't be surprise if during her podcast or in a future she notes that she would never commit suicide - she just wanted to say that she was really depressed.

 

[Sunnystar]

And Low makes it clear in that last excerpt that it was the Queen herself who absolutely would not budge on the Sussexes following royal rules, even when they were on their "downtime" if they wanted a half in-half out existence. Ultimately, there was no middle ground to be found because Meghan & Harry were unwilling to agree to those terms and the Queen wasn't going to put the reputation of the monarchy at risk. She'd already seen what happened with Edward & Sophie when they were trying to live private lives, and then there were the multitude of issues with glad-handing, etc that resulted in Andrew losing his trade representative role.

 

[Mbruno]

That's quite critical of everyone. No-one seems to have handled things very well. But I think it's true that there just wasn't a compromise.

The excerpt suggests the courtiers were looking for a compromise, but it was the late Queen who drew the line.

In hindsight, I think she was right. The type of political and business activities that Meghan is now carrying out in America (and which I believe she always wanted to pursue in the first place) would not have been possible or acceptable in a "half in/half out" scenario.

 

[FigTree]

I just finished reading it. This one is quieter than the other two and a bit more thoughtful. I think he’s right that the gap between what they wanted and what would be acceptable for members of the royal family was far too great.

I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion this is ultimately better for Harry though. His life is now just as public but with far fewer privileges.

I hope he is happier. He always looks miserable at public events. If it bothers him so much I hope that he can just stop it then.

It's a mass of contradictions though. He wanted out but wants children to have titles. Wanted out but wanted a far more luxurious life than the one he is provided with as a royal so then has to write books, make reality shows. None of it makes sense.

 

[HRHHermione]

"Courtiers, The Hidden Power Behind The Crown" by Valentine Low (2022)

I hope he is happier. He always looks miserable at public events. If it bothers him so much I hope that he can just stop it then.

Right now, whenever we see him, he seems angrier and more miserable than he ever has in his entire life. That was true even before the sad death of the Queen.

He’s lost a lot. He’s estranged from his brother and father, and reportedly from most of his old friends. He’s living somewhere he doesn’t know many people. The only money he can really make is from merchandising his traumas, and in a way, he has less privacy than he’s ever had in his entire life.

For most of the royal family, the public has access to what they want us to have access to. We see their public lives, but not their private lives and certainly not their inner, emotional lives.

 

[Moran]

Thanks for the excerpt, TLLK!

I have to admit I'm confused. Low says that Meghan and Harry would never accept anything less than full freedom but criticizes the courtiers about the way they handled it? In my mind, when someone has decided that it would be their way or the highway, in the long run it doesn't really matter how you handle it unless you cave in entirely.

What should the courtiers have done, in Mr Low's opinion?

 

[FigTree]

Right now, whenever we see him, he seems angrier and more miserable than he ever has in his entire life. That was true even before the sad death of the Queen.

He’s lost a lot. He’s estranged from his brother and father, and reportedly from most of his old friends. He’s living somewhere he doesn’t know many people. The only money he can really make is from merchandising his traumas, and in a way, he has less privacy than he’s ever had in his entire life.

For most of the royal family, the public has access to what they want us to have access to. We see their public lives, but not their private lives and certainly not their inner, emotional lives.

Yeah he's trapped really. All he and his family need is a three bed house and a simple life. They could live of the money that Diana gave him and never have to work. I know that's fanciful because it would always take a lot of money to run his life but it could be significantly less and more manageable. They don't need the house they have and the wouldn't have to go around merchandising their life in the royal family.

 

[Erin9]

"Courtiers, The Hidden Power Behind The Crown" by Valentine Low (2022)

I just finished reading it. This one is quieter than the other two and a bit more thoughtful. I think he’s right that the gap between what they wanted and what would be acceptable for members of the royal family was far too great.

I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion this is ultimately better for Harry though. His life is now just as public but with far fewer privileges.

I agree that the gap was too great between what the Sussexes wanted and what the royal family found acceptable. Had the Sussexes wanted an actual quiet life- some way of making money out of the spotlight, rather than the celebrity one, something probably could have been worked out. But that wasn’t going to happen.

Whether this is better for Harry or not- I don’t know. His life is still public, still dependent on the media. His relationship with his family has certainly taken a hit. He does have fewer privileges. He has control to a point though. Aside from the need to make a living to fund their extravagant lifestyle, he can do as little or as much as he likes. When he wants. With whatever project.

Personally- I’m not impressed with the Sussexes behavior or output (quality or quantity) post the exit. They seem to be squandering opportunities imo. So, we’ll see how this really goes long term.

 

[FigTree]

I agree that the gap was too great between what the Sussexes wanted and what the royal family found acceptable. Had the Sussexes wanted an actual quiet life- some way of making money out of the spotlight, rather than the celebrity one, something probably could have been worked out. But that wasn’t going to happen.

Whether this is better for Harry or not- I don’t know. His life is still public, still dependent on the media. His relationship with his family has certainly taken a hit. He does have fewer privileges. He has control to a point though. Aside from the need to make a living to fund their extravagant lifestyle, he can do as little or as much as he likes. When he wants. With whatever project.

Personally- I’m not impressed with the Sussexes behavior or output (quality or quantity) post the exit. They seem to be squandering opportunities imo. So, we’ll see how this really goes long term.

They may not be squandering anything. It may be that they simply don't have the talent for what they are being offered.

I mean the family could have met before the end of January but like all things they probably didn't think it was going to blow up and were just taking it at a gentle pase.

 

[Erin9]

They may not be squandering anything. It may be that they simply don't have the talent for what they are being offered.



I mean the family could have met before the end of January but like all things they probably didn't think it was going to blow up and were just taking it at a gentle pase.

Good point- and one I’ve contemplated. They have this global platform ONLY because Harry was born into the most famous family in the world. It has nothing to do with their own talents. Right now, I have to say: it shows.

I think the ending would have been the same regardless of when they met.

 

[Lilyflo]

This bit interested me:

"They wanted to find a compromise whereby they could live part of the year abroad but carry out some royal duties at home. No such compromise was found. Instead, they lost their royal duties, their patronages, Harry’s military affiliations, their security, their income from the Prince of Wales and, for official purposes anyway, their HRH titles. They pretty much lost everything, except for the freedom to do exactly what they want."

How is what they wanted a "compromise"? It's entirely what they wanted not a compromised version of what they wanted.

It looks to me as though HMQ was the one willing to compromise by saying yes you can have your part-time royal work and also live part-time in another country but if you remain as working royals in any form, that comes with a set of rules ie "They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends". That's the compromise between the extremes of having everything they wanted and nothing they wanted.

No doubt there were frustrations about how it all was handled on both sides but ultimately, HMQ was willing to meet them half-way and they rejected that offer because they wanted to make money and have the freedom to say/do anything they wanted to.

I feel quite maternal towards Harry but his 'anger' has been an issue for years (well before Meghan) and he's still blaming his family / the courtiers for slighting him or not letting him do what he wants to. He's the product of a tragic but indulged childhood and I feel torn between wanting to excuse him and telling him to 'man-up', as they say in the services.

 

[Moran]

What's most intriguing is that this part of the book, while more positive towards the Sussexes or at least more critical towards the others basically contradicts Harry's claims that his sweet old Granny was totally understanding but overall, a pawn in the hands of the palace men. What we see here is the top lady trying to negotiate, being amenable but at the end, making the call that was only hers to make. As it should be. The boss made the decision.

 

[Saragli]

I've enjoyed these excerpts so far. I really appreciate that the author is clear on making a point on how frustrated, fragile, and unprofessional Harry was before Meghan came along. The misogynist, and racist, stories that put all the blame on Meghan for coming in and changing Harry never sat well with me. I also appreciate the author doesn't excuse Harry and Meghan's appalling behaviour. The insight into how the courtiers work doesn't really stray from the narrative of the courtiers for the past century - that they are stalwarts for tradition, glacial to implement any change, and, quite frankly, often petty. Their jobs are hard, and I respect their work, but the culture needs to change.

But I agree with the author, that while the process was unnecessarily cruel and messy, leaving the royal family was probably the best thing for Harry. Unfortunately Harry and Meghan seem unable to realize that they got what they wanted, and where they are now is probably the best for them, but they need to do their part to reconcile.

 

[Erin9]

What's most intriguing is that this part of the book, while more positive towards the Sussexes or at least more critical towards the others basically contradicts Harry's claims that his sweet old Granny was totally understanding but overall, a pawn in the hands of the palace men. What we see here is the top lady trying to negotiate, being amenable but at the end, making the call that was only hers to make. As it should be. The boss made the decision.

Agreed. I always thought, ultimately, this was absolutely TQ’s call. There was never any evidence imo to suggest that she didn’t make decisions, understand the decisions she made, or was no longer in charge.

Thing is- Harry and Meghan were and are still angry that their HIHO plan was rejected. They didn’t want to blame the Queen directly-that would be a bad look for them. So- they had to make it someone else’s fault. They did it across the board. It was always vaguely the institution, the family, etc- never TQ. Despite her being head of it.

But here it is- she made the call.

 

[Erin9]

"Courtiers, The Hidden Power Behind The Crown" by Valentine Low (2022)

This bit interested me:



"They wanted to find a compromise whereby they could live part of the year abroad but carry out some royal duties at home. No such compromise was found. Instead, they lost their royal duties, their patronages, Harry’s military affiliations, their security, their income from the Prince of Wales and, for official purposes anyway, their HRH titles. They pretty much lost everything, except for the freedom to do exactly what they want."



How is what they wanted a "compromise"? It's entirely what they wanted not a compromised version of what they wanted.



It looks to me as though HMQ was the one willing to compromise by saying yes you can have your part-time royal work and also live part-time in another country but if you remain as working royals in any form, that comes with a set of rules ie "They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends". That's the compromise between the extremes of having everything they wanted and nothing they wanted.



No doubt there were frustrations about how it all was handled on both sides but ultimately, HMQ was willing to meet them half-way and they rejected that offer because they wanted to make money and have the freedom to say/do anything they wanted to.



I feel quite maternal towards Harry but his 'anger' has been an issue for years (well before Meghan) and he's still blaming his family / the courtiers for slighting him or not letting him do what he wants to. He's the product of a tragic but indulged childhood and I feel torn between wanting to excuse him and telling him to 'man-up', as they say in the services.

IA. The Sussexes weren’t willing to compromise. They wanted everything the way they’d laid out on their website. They wanted it that way- or no way. They got no way. And are still bitter.

It’s not a compromise if what you present is all you’re willing to accept.

 

[Moran]

I do hope this book can contribute to the long needed death of the myth about the good prince and the evil witch who led him astray. Now, we have it - he was already this way well before she appeared, not that we didn't know it. She might have influenced him but she didn't "invent" a new character for him. I surely hope this book help people to see him as a grown man who can - gasp - make his own decisions and not do one's bidding without really wanting it.

 

[Saragli]

I do hope this book can contribute to the long needed death of the myth about the good prince and the evil witch who led him astray. Now, we have it - he was already this way well before she appeared, not that we didn't know it. She might have influenced him but she didn't "invent" a new character for him. I surely hope this book help people to see him as a grown man who can - gasp - make his own decisions and not do one's bidding without really wanting it.

I agree. After the premature death of his mother, and the nation watching him walk behind her coffin, the UK infantilized him and always gave him a free pass. They kept that soft spot on him for far too long.

 

[Curryong]

We are still only seeing part of the whole picture though. And that is from the side of the Palace Courtiers. These are extracts we are seeing as well, not the full chapters. And it doesnt appear that Low managed to get any sort of response from Young, Aronson or anybody really senior who was party to the whole negotiations.

We don’t have (naturally) the perspective of either of the Sussexes, Prince Charles, Prince William, or, most important of all, that of the Queen. It’s part of the history of the BRF now and of Queen Elizabeth’s reign, and the full picture isn’t likely to emerge for another fifty years or more.

 

[Prinsara]

We don’t have (naturally) the perspective of either of the Sussexes, Prince Charles, Prince William, or, most important of all, that of the Queen. It’s part of the history of the BRF now and of Queen Elizabeth’s reign, and the full picture isn’t likely to emerge for another fifty years or more.

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor haven't become more endearing with time, and their myth has thoroughly unraveled. Without some drastic behavioral changes on the part of the Sussexes, I don't see why they're likely to be viewed much more favorably, given everything we do know after just a couple of years.

 

[Moran]

We do have the perspective of the Sussexes, though - from them and their lawyer who compared Meghan's staff to a bunch of 7-year-olds in a patronizing way. We just didn't read it in this book.

From what I've seen this far, it's the courtiers' side of it and no one would take it as the whole story. No one should, either. But we do know the Sussexes' side.

 

[Curryong]

We don’t know how the negotiations in Norfolk went from anybody’s side as nobody has spoken about them in detail. Including Harry. We really don’t know what was laid out on the table, only the results. And all that Low has got and put in his book are impressions from staff about the earlier role of Young and Co. in formulating some of it.

 

[Erin9]

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor haven't become more endearing with time, and their myth has thoroughly unraveled. Without some drastic behavioral changes on the part of the Sussexes, I don't see why they're likely to be viewed much more favorably, given everything we do know after just a couple of years.

I tend to agree with this.

And if there is one perspective we’ve heard repeatedly- though not in this book- it is the Sussexes.

 

[FigTree]

We don’t know how the negotiations in Norfolk went from anybody’s side as nobody has spoken about them in detail. Including Harry. We really don’t know what was laid out on the table, only the results. And all that Low has got and put in his book are impressions from staff about the earlier role of Young and Co. in formulating some of it.

We kind of do though. All the debating was done before Norfolk. Norfolk seems to be getting Harry in the room and basically telling him it wasn’t going to work and telling him how much he was loosing. You’d have to feel sorry for him here.

We do know what has happened…from the Sussexes. And the more we hear and the more those stories coalesce to a similar story the more confident everyone can be that it’s circling the truth.

I do think Meghan had buyers remorse after marrying him…and then had to make it for the pair of them. But a I do think with their anger and bitterness that they have buyers remorse now too. They really seem never to be happy.

 

[HRHHermione]

To me, one interesting point in this excerpt is that Harry thought such a seismic change could be done overnight and exactly the way they wanted. He seems continually angry about his security being removed after their announcement that they were moving and stepping down, but to me, that seems obvious as something that would have been difficult to sort out and taken real time to do.

It makes me wonder if he’d really never paid attention to the hard work of the people around him and the logistics they have to do.

 

[Curryong]

I take it then that readers of this book will come away with the impression that the courtiers who formulated the arrangement by which the Sussexes left the RF were 100% correct in all their arrangements and the Sussexes were 100% in the wrong, with no shades of grey, no flexibility shown by either side, in spite of Low’s assertions about at least one or two of the courtiers’ methods.

 

[FigTree]

I take it then that readers of this book will come away with the impression that the courtiers who formulated the arrangement by which the Sussexes left the RF were 100% correct in all their arrangements and the Sussexes were 100% in the wrong, with no shades of grey, no flexibility shown by either side, in spite of Low’s assertions about at least one or two of the courtiers’ methods.

That’s for everyone to decide for themselves. Certainly the book said that they really tried but that in the end the Queen said no dice. So ultimately if you think they were treated unfairly buck stops with her. However, this was a vastly experienced woman who had seen everything from her uncles, to Churchill, to Thatcher, to Mugabee, to Stalin. I’d trust when she said something wouldn’t work…it wouldn’t be work. Not in the way either wanted it. If they went away and got low profile jobs and didn’t want to stick their toe in public matters it would probably have been fine.

 

[Moran]

We'll see what the full chapters show but this far, I can't see what Low expected of the courtiers to do if, as he said, the Sussexes were determined not to move an inch. It doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, when Harry's memoir hits the shelves, we'll have the Sussexes' version - and they are going to be 100% correct and everyone else was mean and whatnot because their perfection irked.

So it balances out in the long run, I think. I don't expect of readers to be satisfied with just one book. Even Morton didn't have as lasting effect as initially thought in shaping the public opinion on Diana, Charles, Camilla and everyone else.

 

[FigTree]

We'll see what the full chapters show but this far, I can't see what Low expected of the courtiers to do if, as he said, the Sussexes were determined not to move an inch. It doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, when Harry's memoir hits the shelves, we'll have the Sussexes' version - and they are going to be 100% correct and everyone else was mean and whatnot because their perfection irked.

So it balances out in the long run, I think. I don't expect of readers to be satisfied with just one book. Even Morton didn't have as lasting effect as initially thought in shaping the public opinion on Diana, Charles, Camilla and everyone else.

Time is a greater sifter to the surface. Moving on too and healing. Harry’s magical unicorn book wherever it is.