Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[JamesJenkins]

It makes me cringe to imagine HM's staff and close family referring to the baby as Lilibet in the presence of The Queen. So awkward! The name seems like such a "gotcha" move on the part of Harry and his wife.

I will say, that is a bit cringe-worthy. Luckily she has a nickname, Lili, much like her father is called Harry and I doubt ever Henry.

 

[Curryong]

It makes me cringe to imagine HM's staff and close family referring to the baby as Lilibet in the presence of The Queen. So awkward! The name seems like such a "gotcha" move on the part of Harry and his wife.

Why wouldn’t staff and family refer to the baby as Lili, as her parents almost certainly will do?

I am really really glad we didn’t have social media when Harry was born in 1984. When announcing his formal names the parents stated that the baby would be henceforth known as Harry. Some people didn’t like that very much, but accepted it. If that happened today apparently all hell would break loose!

 

[Denville]

I thought at the time that Harry was an awful Victorian nickname for Henry, which had long since gone out of fashion...

 

[Curryong]

I thought at the time that Harry was an awful Victorian nickname for Henry, which had long since gone out of fashion...

Victorian names are in fashion again now. And Harry has returned to popularity for British parents since then, unlike Archibald.

 

[JamesJenkins]

Why wouldn’t staff and family refer to the baby as Lili, as her parents almost certainly will do?

I am really really glad we didn’t have social media when Harry was born in 1984. When announcing his formal names the parents stated that the baby would be henceforth known as Harry. Some people didn’t like that very much, but accepted it. If that happened today apparently all hell would break loose!

Social media would have done a number on Andrew and Fergie with the odd old names Eugenie and Beatrice.

 

[Denville]

Victorian names are in fashion again now. And Harry has returned to popularity for British parents since then, unlike Archibald.

Yes I know. Thanks to Harry the awful name is now quite common.

 

[JamesJenkins]

Yes I know. Thanks to Harry the awful name is now quite common.

Was there any controversy or backlash on the name Zara? Which is certainly odd by royal standards and also means Princess which…seems pretentious given she is not a princess.

 

[Denville]

Was there any controversy or backlash on the name Zara? Which is certainly odd by royal standards and also means Princess which…seems pretentious given she is not a princess.

It was considered very odd, but Anne was clearly not giving her children royal names, i.e. Peter and Zara and they were not meant to be working royals ever.. nor to have titles. And Zara is not "Princess" - that's "Sarah". Anne chose conventional middle names for her children however, calling Peter "Mark and Andrew" after his own father and Philips father.. and Zara is Zara Anne Elizabeth.

 

[LaBettie]

I wished they had gone with Lili or Lily as the official first name and explain it as a tribute to Lilibet. Lily/Lily goes better with Archie since he is just Archie and not Archibald “Archie”. Archie and Lily sound fresh without being too stuffy or weird.

I know H&M want a non-traditional name, to honor both Elizabeth and Diana, to not match Charlotte Elizabeth Diana, and to match Archie by not having three names, but did they need to lay claim on Lilibet just to call her Lili? They probably did it to stir the pot.

It would be interesting to see which name will be used more often in the future. The royal court will always use the formal name and the media will mention it often. I hope the Queen gave them her blessing to use Lilibet with the strict instruction to not do anything with it like Archie and Archewell. I hope Lili is able to meet her namesake and be happy with the name she uses when she grows up.

Speaking of Lily, Lily of the Valley is one of the Queen’s favorite flowers. And since they are in SoCal, she can be Lili of the Valley. LOL just pointing it out, not trying to speak ill about a baby.

 

[Curryong]

Yes I know. Thanks to Harry the awful name is now quite common.

? Well, presumably the men and boys themselves, their parents and other close relatives don’t think the same way!

 

[Denville]

I dont think the queen has any control over what they do with names..They could not use "Sussex Royal" and they can't use their style of HRH but she can't tell them not to set up a "Lili Foundation"

 

[Queen Claude]

Maybe he was. Never thought of that. Is anyone able to confirm that?

Neither being foreign born, nor a member of a foreign royal family is a disqualification for being in the line of succession, not in 1859 nor at present. Members of the Norwegian, Danish, Greek and other foreign royals are in the line of succession. Now being Catholic...

 

[Alison H]

Social media would have done a number on Andrew and Fergie with the odd old names Eugenie and Beatrice.

I've got an unfortunate recollection of Charlie Wolf, who's now a political commentator but used to be a DJ on the now defunct Atlantic 252 radio station, announcing that the Duke and Duchess of York had named their baby "Eugene".

The name Harry's become extremely popular, although that's now due mainly to England football captain Harry Kane.

 

[JamesJenkins]

I wished they had gone with Lili or Lily as the official first name and explain it as a tribute to Lilibet. Lily/Lily goes better with Archie since he is just Archie and not Archibald “Archie”. Archie and Lily sound fresh without being too stuffy or weird.

I know H&M want a non-traditional name, to honor both Elizabeth and Diana, to not match Charlotte Elizabeth Diana, and to match Archie by not having three names, but did they need to lay claim on Lilibet just to call her Lili? They probably did it to stir the pot.

It would be interesting to see which name will be used more often in the future. The royal court will always use the formal name and the media will mention it often. I hope the Queen gave them her blessing to use Lilibet with the strict instruction to not do anything with it like Archie and Archewell. I hope Lili is able to meet her namesake and be happy with the name she uses when she grows up.

Speaking of Lily, Lily of the Valley is one of the Queen’s favorite flowers. And since they are in SoCal, she can be Lili of the Valley. LOL just pointing it out, not trying to speak ill about a baby.

Does the court ever call Harry Henry?

 

[Denville]

Neither being foreign born, nor a member of a foreign royal family is a disqualification for being in the line of succession, not in 1859 nor at present. Members of the Norwegian, Danish, Greek and other foreign royals are in the line of succession. Now being Catholic...

no, that's what I thought. When George III's children were very short of legitimate children, it was feared that the throne might go from one elderly German princess to Another.....

 

[Leopoldine]

It was considered very odd, but Anne was clearly not giving her children royal names, i.e. Peter and Zara and they were not meant to be working royals ever.. nor to have titles. And Zara is not "Princess" - that's "Sarah". Anne chose conventional middle names for her children however, calling Peter "Mark and Andrew" after his own father and Philips father.. and Zara is Zara Anne Elizabeth.

I seem to recall that Prince Philip had involvement with a naval ship named Zara during the war, and it was the inspiration for the name.

 

[Denville]

I've got an unfortunate recollection of Charlie Wolf, who's now a political commentator but used to be a DJ on the now defunct Atlantic 252 radio station, announcing that the Duke and Duchess of York had named their baby "Eugene".

The name Harry's become extremely popular, although that's now due mainly to England football captain Harry Kane.

I thought that it came about because Harry had appeared as a royal name in the 80s and it began to creep back...
I remember telling someone that the Yorks had named their new baby Eugenie and she said to me "You're making that up" - because it sounded so odd. But it is a royal name. However I always thought taht Sarah was trying to show off that she knew all about Queen Victoria as she was writing books about her then.

I seem to recall that Prince Philip had involvement with a naval ship named Zara during the war, and it was the inspiration for the name.

there are different stories. But the poiint is, that it was a very unusual name and was a clear statement by Anne that "my kids are not royal".

 

[Alison H]

Yes, the 90s are so-named because of Prince Harry, but the name would probably have gone back out by now if it weren't for Harry Kane, And Harry Styles from One Direction . The story about Prince Harry was that Diana didn't like the name Henry, so the compromise was that Henry would be his official name but that he'd be known as Harry.


I think the Queen suggested Beatrice. And then maybe they thought the name Eugenie went well with Beatrice, as it was the name of the first Beatrice's daughter ... although the previous Eugenie was known as Ena.

 

[Curryong]

Does the court ever call Harry Henry?

I know when Harry closed the London Olympics the public announcement said ‘Prince Henry’ and everybody looked around as if saying ‘Who?’

 

[Prinsara]

I seem to recall that Prince Philip had involvement with a naval ship named Zara during the war, and it was the inspiration for the name.

I thought it was Charles who came up with it since Anne apparently didn't have any better ideas, and it means "dawn" — in Arabic.

Nobody made a fuss about Sarah Armstrong-Jones, who was not a princess, or her older brother David, who had his persona non grata great-uncle's name. Again, no social media.

 

[Denville]

I thought it was Charles who came up with it since Anne apparently didn't have any better ideas, and it means "dawn" — in Arabic.

Nobody made a fuss about Sarah Armstrong-Jones, who was not a princess, or her older brother David, who had his persona non grata great-uncle's name. Again, no social media.

There is that story about Zara but the Arabic for Dawn is apparently Zohr.. so Zora would have been better.
As for David and Sarah AJ they both had conventional upper class names. David was the name of the Q Mother's favourite brother... and Sarah is a very popular upper class name...
Her other names were Frances after TOny AJs mother and Elizabeth after Marg 's mother.. so I dont think people were going to think they had odd names. But Peter and Zara were odd names at the time.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, the 90s are so-named because of Prince Harry, but the name would probably have gone back out by now if it weren't for Harry Kane, And Harry Styles from One Direction . The story about Prince Harry was that Diana didn't like the name Henry, so the compromise was that Henry would be his official name but that he'd be known as Harry.
.

Yes, but would Harry Styles or Harry Kane have necessarily been named Harry if not for the previous popularity of the name in the 1990s? Plus Prince Harry remained popular in Britain throughout his twenties. I remember British lists of names for baby boys crediting him with the popularity of the name Harry as late as 2016.

 

[Prinsara]

Don't forget Harry Potter. Which also has a prominent Lily.

 

[Denville]

Don't forget Harry Potter.

oh dear Lord, is there no end to it? And Harry has probalby made the name Archie more popular too.

 

[rominet09]

Happy mother and daughter are doing well.

I would have understood the name 'Lily Diana' as they clearly crave their royal connection (in contrast to Archie who didn't get a royal name) and in addition build their brand on being Diana's son('s family). However, using the queen's childhood nickname (it doesn't get much more intimate than that) as their daughter's official name seems rather pretentious, especially after trying to destroy all that she has ever lived for and represents over the last year and a half. Poor queen... (who also needs to pretend to be honored by this gesture as that is what a diplomatic person like her would do)

And 'Lili' (instead of Lily) looks weird to me.

Well said ! I am really uneasy with "Lilibeth Diana" for me it looks as if they wanted to claim that they were still in the RF.

 

[Curryong]

They are still in the BRF, just not working royals. Harry is still the Queen’s grandson, Prince Charles’s son and Prince William’s brother. If he isn’t a royal why is he Prince Harry and why did the Queen (and Sophie reiterated it just the other day) state that he and Meghan are still ‘well-loved’ members of my family’?

 

[RJC]

I would have thought the names were quite lovely and very touching if it hadn't been for recent interviews. Now it seems like they are trying to worm their way back. I also feel sorry for Doria who, afaik, has been a constant in their lives. Maybe if they'd put Doria on the end I might have had more respect for them. The birth of a healthy baby is a wonderful thing though so I'm very happy for them.

 

[Curryong]

It may be that Doria doesn’t particularly like her name and doesn’t want a relative to be given it. I loved my mother but she hated her name and so I never gave it, even as a middle name, to either of my two daughters.

 

[Kellydofc]

They are still in the BRF, just not working royals. Harry is still the Queen’s grandson, Prince Charles’s son and Prince William’s brother. If he isn’t a royal why is he Prince Harry and why did the Queen (and Sophie reiterated it just the other day) state that he and Meghan are still ‘well-loved’ members of my family?

Because the rest of the family isn't foolish and they're not going to say anything bad about Harry or Meghan to the press. They know how to be circumspect and keep family drama behind closed doors. If only the Sussexes were half as politic.

 

[Curryong]

That still doesn’t mean that Harry isn’t a member of the Royal Family.