Archduke Carl-Christian, Pss Marie Astrid (née Luxembourg) and Family 2, 2022 -


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I would say it is not embarrassing but a necessity for any person in the public eye to edit their Wikipedia pages if possible. Even on discussion forums such as this, we have seen time and again how misinformation without any basis in reality is commonly believed just because it appears on Wikipedia, even after being discredited by reliable sources.

Of course, edits ought to correct misinformation and not add to it, whether the editor is a family member or not. But I would hope the "someone [who] set the record straight and added that these titles have been extinct etc" is also making the same clarifications on the articles of Alexander and others using extinct titles, rather than singling out Natacha for personal reasons.



The Marlene Koenig article which was posted upthread did not cover fact-checking of Russian genealogies in any detail. But since I am not sufficiently interested in the fiancée's ancestry to look into it myself, I will take your word that you have read articles by people who did conduct research into her ancestry and concluded that at least one of her ancestors fabricated his alleged nobility. (And I fully agree: Facts and evidence should be trusted over unsupported statements.) My point, though, was that her ancestor lying about being nobility does not mean that the whole family invented their entire family history. For example, is there any evidence that her grandfather's record of fighting in World War Two is a lie, or that her mother being Dutch is a lie?

(I will need to split my reply due to the post length limits.)

Genealogists specializing in Russian History talked to Marlene and did their own research after titlegate™️ and confirmed Roumiantzoff title went extinct after the last Count did not have legitimate male heirs. Same goes for the other last name.
 
Does anybody know what happened with the eye of Christoph' s and Adelaide' s elder daughter Katarina?
 
Archduke Maximilien and Archiduchess Natacha were in Vienna to day .
 
It seems that Carl-Christian and Marie-Astrid had another grandchild this year, besides Archduke Karl and Christoph and Adelaide's 4th child: Henri and Gabriella had a third child, a son, probably around 7/8 months ago, according to a picture posted by Prince Henri on his Instagram account (which is private).
See also here:
Descendants of King Christian IX of Denmark
 
If a Benelux/Germanic royal/noble baby doesn't have "d'Aviano" in his name, is he really a Benelux/Germanic royal/noble baby?

I don't think so :D

Karl Maria is one of my favourite combinations.
 
If a Benelux/Germanic royal/noble baby doesn't have "d'Aviano" in his name, is he really a Benelux/Germanic royal/noble baby?

I don't think so :D

Karl Maria is one of my favourite combinations.
No Dutch royal has 'd'Aviano' in his name. It is mostly a tradition among the Habsburgers to include 'Marc/Marco/Marcus d'Aviano'; they are all named after Marco d'Aviano. See wikipedia for more information about this friar.

In that way it also slipped into Astrid's family (as her husband is a Habsburger) - but not any other Belgian royals. Not sure why it was also adopted for grand duke Jean and some of his descendants.
 
No Dutch royal has 'd'Aviano' in his name. It is mostly a tradition among the Habsburgers to include 'Marc/Marco/Marcus d'Aviano'; they are all named after Marco d'Aviano. See wikipedia for more information about this friar.

In that way it also slipped into Astrid's family (as her husband is a Habsburger) - but not any other Belgian royals. Not sure why it was also adopted for grand duke Jean and some of his descendants.
Jean's father Felix was the Empress Zita's brother which might explain why his parents followed the Habsburg custom when choosing a name for him.
 
Jean's father Felix was the Empress Zita's brother which might explain why his parents followed the Habsburg custom when choosing a name for him.

Jean's aunt marrying into the Habsburg family doesn't seem in itself a good reason to take on their naming customs; unless Jean's godfather was a Habsburger with this naming convention imho. After all, his second name is after his godfather pope Benedict XV.
 
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Saw in Alexander's LinkedIn that he is now working for the UAE consulate in Geneva. I know it's common for foreigners to work at Embassies/Consulates not of their birth country (As an American, I interned at the French consulate in my city while in uni). Just thought it was interesting.
 
Archduchess Gabriella with her family:

 
Anyone know whether Natacha or Kathleen have (new) babies?
 
Anyone know whether Natacha or Kathleen have (new) babies?
Unfortunately, no. I think Archduchess Kathleen and her husband don't want any more children (5 children is a lot nowadays, including two, Karl and Cecilia still relatively young).

Surely Archduchess Marie-Christine will not have any more children, I assume, since she has now entered the threshold of 40 years and the last child was born in 2016.

Maybe Christoph and Adelaide will have another child, but maybe in a few years (Flavia is still young). Henri and Gabriella will almost certainly have another one (or two), or at least that's what I hope. Will they probably want a boy too? In any case, Henri and Gabriella are still young and therefore there is a likelihood that they will have other children (I hope a boy, maybe this year or 2026? Since Philippine was born in 2023). Gabriella posted a new photo of her daughters a few days ago.

Alexander and Natacha seem to live very privately, I haven't seen them since the day of the wedding. Surely they will have children, although it is strange, since his brothers and sisters became parents before the age of 30.
 
According to Royal Musings Natacha and Alexander seem to have separated😢
Yes, I read the article.

This does not surprise me at all. The Archduke and his wife had not be seen in public since their wedding day. But this happens when you marry a woman who pretends to be someone she is not, in this case a countess, because I am sure they would never have even married if he had known the machinations carried out by her family.
 
This keeps popping up. But what I believe her grandfather or great grandfather started these pretentions and their descendants continued it. As have done many, for example Prince Henrik of Denmark, president Giscard d´Estaing and Lady Paola Windsor/ Doimi de Frankopan. Objectionable as it may be, it is hardly a reason for such a quick divorce, especially as this was known before the wedding.

I remember at the time that somebody from Switzerland intiated a biarre online hate-campaign against Natacha.
 
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It's not exactly surprising news, but coming months after the wedding is a little strange. But it's obvious that they shouldn't have much in common.
 
Yes, I read the article.

This does not surprise me at all. The Archduke and his wife had not be seen in public since their wedding day. But this happens when you marry a woman who pretends to be someone she is not, in this case a countess, because I am sure they would never have even married if he had known the machinations carried out by her family.
Well, articles about her family's supposed titles were published several months before the wedding: if Alexander, or his family, were so concerned by that, they could have very well broken off the engagement, which didn't happen.
So, I imagine that there are other-more serious- reasons for such a quick divorce.
 
Indeed. If pretending to a title and having ancestors who carried out title-related machinations is grounds for divorce, then we can assume Natacha is divorcing Alexander for calling himself an Archduke of the republic of Austria, which has outlawed all titles of nobility, and for having an ancestral family member (Rudolf IV of Austria, 1339-65) who forged a document to give himself the Archduke title.

Hopefully the mysterious online hate campaign will leave Natacha and her family alone henceforth. Of course, many individual these days are subjected to online hate campaigns, but it was indeed bizarre to see one against the private wife of the private nephew of the the monarch of a small grand duchy.

The article by the way says that "she has resumed using her maiden name" - hardly the action of a title-hungry person, who would presumably cling to her estranged husband's more prestigious surname as long as possible.


It's not exactly surprising news, but coming months after the wedding is a little strange. But it's obvious that they shouldn't have much in common.

How so? They seem to have had quite similar upbringings as upper-class Swiss residents from cosmopolitan families.
 
Indeed. If pretending to a title and having ancestors who carried out title-related machinations is grounds for divorce, then we can assume Natacha is divorcing Alexander for calling himself an Archduke of the republic of Austria, which has outlawed all titles of nobility, and for having an ancestral family member (Rudolf IV of Austria, 1339-65) who forged a document to give himself the Archduke title.
Natacha is free to claim what ever title she wants, but there is a large difference between using a title made-up by a close relative and using one that has been part of your family heritage for centuries.
 
Natacha is free to claim what ever title she wants, but there is a large difference between using a title made-up by a close relative and using one that has been part of your family heritage for centuries.

I understand your point. But if my recollection is correct, it remains unclear when Natacha’s ancestors made up the title (assuming that is indeed what happened, rather than some ancient creation for which it is now too difficult to locate the documentation), so for all we know they may have been using it for centuries as well. In any event, it was used in her family since at least the time of her paternal grandfather.

There is also a large difference between using a title which was, as far as we know, only recently discovered to be of dubious origins as a result of an embittered person’s posts, and using a title which is known to the world to have been revoked in 1919 as a result of a country’s legitimate self-determination.
 
The article by the way says that "she has resumed using her maiden name" - hardly the action of a title-hungry person, who would presumably cling to her estranged husband's more prestigious surname as long as possible.

Well, to be correct... - we do not know if the unfortunate couple has some kind of pre-nuptial "contract" and whether the name question after an eventual separation is mentioned in it. The Fürstenbergs for example nowadays have such a clause about the duty to go back to the maiden name, if I remember it right.
 
Archiduc Christian and his wife Marie Astrid were so lucky at their Wedding, now a divorce.
They had also a grandchild born before his parents Wedding.
 
With all due respect, I can't understand why a couple would split up after such a short time because of a noble title. That is simply absurd! They must have known each other beforehand and not just married because of their true or untrue noble origins. It's not as if only marriages of nobles are happy and they never separate. There are plenty of examples to show that this is no guarantee of a happy marriage.
Just as it is no guarantee that marriages between nobles and non-nobles (which, strictly speaking, is a bit old-fashioned in this day and age anyway) work better.
 
While we're on the subject, it would be interesting to make a list. Which marriages are successful because both partners are royal or noble, and which marriages are successful where this is not the case.
 
This has nothing to do with THR&IHH Archduke Christian and his wife Marie Astrid. Do we know exactly if their Son Alexander is really divorced because of a noble tittle ?
 
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