The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April-June 2021

[Mirabel]

I have one simple question. I know he's talking about the past as well but...
Is he happy now? Because he seems miserable, stuck in the past and going ballistic on his family again and again and not able to let go and live happy live while his wife is expecting a second child.

That was what struck me as well.
Harry supposedly has everything he wants right now, so why the constant whining?

 

[Mbruno]

That was what struck me as well.
Harry supposedly has everything he wants right now, so why the constant whining?

In the wake of the Bashir inquiry on the Panorama interview, I wonder how Oprah and others alike are a factor in Harry's recent outbursts. Is the US media encouraging Harry to go ballistic on his family because there is obviously an audience for that kind of dirty laundry?

 

[Denville]

I think that Harry is more complicit. he (or he and Meg) want to go on tv and complain. Its their brand. Its what's making them sepcial.. they walked out on royal life and they can talk about the bad parts of it and the secret dark side. Diana DID want to talk as well but I dont think she was thinking in terms of making money by spilling her misery.. She just wanted to say her say.. and she WAS a wronged wife.. she wasn't complaining about her OWN family - its more understandable that an estranged wife, at odds with her husband and his family, might want to put her side of the story.. Even so, I'm not sure she would have been quite so outspoken wihtout Bashir as we've said, making her feel that the husband's family were out to get her, perhaps even to kill her.
I dont really think that Harry would have such vibes from his own father and brother, yet he seems to be keen to speak and there's no evidence that Orpah's been feeding him info that might make him speak out....

 

[lirienn]

Agreed. He's complicit. Also he uses Diana's name way too much and uses racism in case of Diana's last partner as a reason for her paparazzi harassment! It's like he joined a cult! He also thinks of himself and Meghan as those superstars, on a Diana-level level or more. He thinks they're SO important, so special. And will be forever. No one is.

 

[Alison H]

Perhaps Harry & Meghan should have take multiple leaves out of other royal family members' book especially those who have faced relentless attack by the press. I'm not just talking about senior working royals, but also the York Princesses, especially when Palaces do not release public statements in shutting down "freeloader, spongers, ugly stepsisters, snobs" stories. In an interview, Princess Eugenie was asked about the negative press/tabloids and false stories. She did not complained that the royal family institution did not protect Beatrice and herself. Instead she said that one could either take it or simply just rise above it.

It's happened to pretty much everyone at one time or another. Even the much-loved Queen Mother was accused of spending too much, and the Queen, in the early years of her reign, was criticised for sounding schoolgirlish. Charles and Camilla have both been ripped to shreds. Sarah was called "the Duchess of Pork" and her house was called "Southyork". Edward was called a wimp, an idiot and all sorts of other things. Anne was accused of being rude, and also had her private letters published in the press. Philip's "gaffes" were always being reported. Sophie was conned by the Fake Sheikh thing. Zara was "the wild child". Kate was "Waity Katie", and her hard-working parents were accused of being social climbers. William was accused of being workshy.

It's not just the Royals, either: it's anyone in the public eye. Politicians, sports players, singers, actors ...

After a while, it wears off, and they move on to someone else. I can't remember the last time I read anything negative about either Beatrice or Eugenie.


And, yes, there is an audience for dirty laundry. Harry's remarks shock people and make headlines. And, unfortunately, overshadow the more constructive comments made by others in the new documentary, such as Lady Gaga talking about surviving sexual assault.

 

[Curryong]

The Press havent moved away from Beatrice and Eugenie out of the kindness of their journalistic hearts. The tabloid press have moved off from the York Princesses as soon as they had Meghan and then Harry in their sights.

And in none of the cases of the other royals mentioned were the attacks relentless, day after day, week after week, month after month for more than three years as they have been with Meghan.

 

[camelot23ca]

Or perhaps Charles wanted to communicate that life in public service can be hard, and you will probably get criticised like I was. And of course, his dim wit of a son contorts it into the message that he is now spouting!

None of the supposedly terrible advice Harry has said Charles gave him sounds inappropriate to me. There are things about the life of a working royal that will never change, because they can’t be changed. Engagements, travel, dealing with the press, public criticism, including press coverage and public criticism which is sometimes inaccurate and unfair. So I think advice like: “this is how it’s always been - it was for your grandfather, it was for me, and it will be for you. We’ve worked hard for many years to come up with a system that minimizes the disruption to our lives - I suggest you stick with it instead of tearing up the rule book.” is actually well meant and good advice.

And I’ve wondered this before - did Harry ever go to his family with a well thought out plan for an alternative arrangement? He says he was told he couldn’t leave and his complaints were met with indifference and “neglect.” Well, here’s what I would see if I was Charles: an adult son who enjoyed the army but still decided to leave it when he could have stayed. He didn’t have any other experience or training that would be a natural fit with some sort of career outside royal life. He wasn’t academic enough to be able to go to university, for example. He didn’t want a job dealing with the public or involving travel. He was, by his own admission, using drugs and drinking way too much. So, did Harry ever come up with an idea for a productive life outside full time royal duties? Or did he expect Charles to fund a “career” of full time drinking, drugs and panic attacks?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tried-STOP-Meghan-leaving-going-end-life.html


Somebody save Harry from himself!

 

[Denville]

The Press havent moved away from Beatrice and Eugenie out of the kindness of their journalistic hearts. The tabloid press have moved off from the York Princesses as soon as they had Meghan and then Harry in their sights.

And in none of the cases of the other royals mentioned were the attacks relentless, day after day, week after week, month after month for more than three years as they have been with Meghan.

That's what the tabloid press are like. They re there to make money. When the public get bored with one royal/celeb, they'll move on. But Harry and Meghan have gone on and on, since they left the UK, providing them with things to write about. They claimed that they wanted a private life, then go on TV and talk about their private life and the family and the dark side of royal life. How can they expect the press not to notice this? Charles got bad press when he and Diana were at odds in the late 80s. He's STILL Getting bad press at times.

 

[Heavs]

That was what struck me as well.
Harry supposedly has everything he wants right now, so why the constant whining?

The quote "the best revenge is living well" seems apt here. The Sussexes do not seem like they're the ones living well right now. They seem caught in a spiral of anger, self pity and destructive thinking. Possibly a lot of it is because they didn't actually get what they wanted.

It's happened to pretty much everyone at one time or another. Even the much-loved Queen Mother was accused of spending too much, and the Queen, in the early years of her reign, was criticised for sounding schoolgirlish. Charles and Camilla have both been ripped to shreds. Sarah was called "the Duchess of Pork" and her house was called "Southyork". Edward was called a wimp, an idiot and all sorts of other things. Anne was accused of being rude, and also had her private letters published in the press. Philip's "gaffes" were always being reported. Sophie was conned by the Fake Sheikh thing. Zara was "the wild child". Kate was "Waity Katie", and her hard-working parents were accused of being social climbers. William was accused of being workshy.

Indeed. I was just talking to a friend about how in the 90s and 2000s Anne couldn't do anything right (she was rude, snobbish, dowdy and owned dangerous dogs) if people remembered she existed at all, now many people have come to appreciate her hard work and seeming no nonsense nature.

Edward as well as the Marines and production company issues had his sexuality questioned in pretty lurid even hateful terms and now he and Sophie are a stable pair of hands who are getting recognition for their work and have a very private home life. I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for Bea and Eugenie in the last few years and how tempting to "give their side" but they haven't and both have growing families and the best press they've had since their birth.

Diana was chased by the paparazzi no matter which man she was with and she also called them herself a lot of the time.

Harry has basically enabled the media to keep talking about him in ever more lurid details from things he himself puts out there and then claims that anyone who disagrees with what he says or questions it is trolling him and should be shut down.

 

[princess gertrude]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tried-STOP-Meghan-leaving-going-end-life.html


Somebody save Harry from himself!

EXACTLY!!! I keep going back to the quote "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging". Of course, I don't think Harry even realizes that he's in a hole. These "interviews" are not going to help his relationship with his family. I do so wish too Marmalade, that someone would save Harry from himself.

 

[muriel]

Harry has basically enabled the media to keep talking about him in ever more lurid details from things he himself puts out there and then claims that anyone who disagrees with what he says or questions it is trolling him and should be shut down.

Very good point. All these ill-though through pronouncements by Harry are doing is providing ammunition to the very media that he so despises. Well thought through, Harry!

 

[Erin9]

Perhaps they are cold and unfeeling. It seems obvious that there are some issues between Charles and his sons that will never be completely healed.



Harry and William are certainly entitled to their own feelings regardless of what others may think.

I don’t buy that the entire family is cold and unfeeling. That’s just not believable to me.

 

[Mbruno]

Harry's relationship with his dad and "suffering as a child" are private matters which may be debatable , but Harry has a right in my opinion to voice an opinion about it.

What I really don't get is Harry complaining he had "to go to Nepal" because there was no one else available to do it, as if that were some kind of abuse or an unreasonable request. Isn't going on overseas trips on behalf of your country part of a Royal Family's job? Part of what essentially they are paid to do?

I recently learned in one of the Spanish forums here on TRF that Prince Felipe, when he was only 15, had to go on a solo event (i.e without his parents) in Colombia (that is, in another continent) to represent his country. What is so appalling then about a 30-year-old Harry having to go to Nepal or wherever he was needed to go?

I know Harry was going through a rough time and I don't want to judge him as I know how those phases are for many people, but did he think he could just stay in London getting drunk and getting high as he admitted to Oprah that he was doing?

 

[Moran]

It IS off putting,. I never thought Harry was bright and I thought that perhaps he had some problems.. but I thought that he was sincere in wanting to do his job, both in the army and also in his royal duties, because he liked people. People have said that he was "so obviously warm hearted and genuine" in dealing with kids and people esp. those in trouble.. and that that could not be faked... and now, it appears from his OWN LIPS that he WAS faking.. that he didn't like meeting people who were less fortunate than himself- NOT it seems because it upset him to see them but because he was less free than they were and he just didn't want to do those awful tours.
So I'm kind of thinking that my feeling that he was going over the top a lot of the time in his "look here, I'm jolly warm hearted Harry the friendly Prince" was a correct instinct.... and that it was pretty much all an act.

I always overlooked the mentionings of Harry not being this bright because come on, we can't all be Harvard professors and how many of us actually are? But his latest bouts of self-pity made me think he's considerably less than stellar on the top of being inconsiderate, unfeeling and self-obsessed.



He envied those less fortunate than him because they were freer? What does this overprivileged... fill in the word ... think people DO? Poor Harry had to work, show up when he didn't want to be there, poor baby, poor love. Really? How many of us are free not to work when they don't feel like working? How many of us don't have to show up for work when they'd rather spend a day of leisure? 99% of the world population is enslaved this way, yet all Harry can do is whine over his own sad fate of having all his needs met anyway but having to work from time to time.


I really don't want to work today. I want to go out and have a walk. But I have no choice. I have to hand this project in time and be ready to - gasp - take the critique where I've done wrong and even defend my work where I'll be cricitized without good reasons. That's life. I might whine from time to time but I'll never do it on TV which wouldn't have given me the time of the day either because I'm not one of the most privileged people in the world.


If I don't work, I can't pay my bills. Is this being free? Harry is really quite the entitled man of privilege.

 

[suztav]

I think he is more ill than presents the eye and I don’t think he is getting the help that he really needs. All this publicity and feeding the media is only making him worse. He has not learned one thing from his mother.

It’s sad that he is being manipulated in much the same way as his mother.

Finally ... I am appalled at the way that he is publicly throwing his family and the institution under the bus.

This isn’t going to end well.

JMHO

 

[Mbruno]

I think he is more ill than presents the eye and I don’t think he is getting the help that he really needs. All this publicity and feeding the media is only making him worse. He has not learned one thing from his mother.

It’s sad that he is being manipulated in much the same way as his mother.

That is what I feel too. Whether it is his wife, or Oprah, or whoever, I think he is being encouraged to say those things by people who are posing as his friends or claiming to want to help him. I don't think it is all about the money or being in the spotlight.

 

[Moran]

I think he is more ill than presents the eye and I don’t think he is getting the help that he really needs. All this publicity and feeding the media is only making him worse. He has not learned one thing from his mother.

It’s sad that he is being manipulated in much the same way as his mother.

Finally ... I am appalled at the way that he is publicly throwing his family and the institution under the bus.

This isn’t going to end well.

JMHO

Diana was manipulated because she had mental troubles. Her mistakes are vastly different from, say, Sophie with the Fake Sheikh. Everyone can show bad judgment from time to time. Sophie did and learned.


Diana, though... Why weren't Charles, Camilla, William and Catherine manipulated? Why wasn't Princess Anne? Charles did give an ill-thought interview WHEN HE WAS IN A BAD PLACE MENTALLY and even then, it was considerably less harmful than what Diana and how Harry are doing.



It takes a certain kind of person to get suck into this to such extent. I also think Harry is less than happy but honestly, with the side of his that he has revealed lately, I can't really bring myself to care. Also, why should I? Harry has enough compassion as it is. He's been doing nothing but pitying himself for quite a long time. He doesn't need the compassion of someone free who only has to work for a living, show up for engagements on time and take care of the wellbeing of her nearest and dearest because that's what people do. It cannot possibly compare to Harry's royal slavery.


Well, that's how it sounds to me from his TV showings.

 

[Lady Chiara]

In connection to the tabloids, they print what sell, it may not be ethical journalism but it still is legal and the backbone of freedom of speech and press, it would be problematic for the palace to stop every single bad article about any member of the family and it seems to me that they confide on the bad reputation (journalistic speaking) the tabloids have with the public.
Also, I've read a lot of people saying that the press was horrible with Meghan from the beginning and this is not true IIRC.
From 2016 when the first news started to come out of their relationship to almost the end of 2018 the press absolutely adore Meghan (and Harry). At the end of the day they had to endure about a year of bad press before leaving the family and now they are on the news because they choose to be in the public eye.
About two years of bad press doesn't seems so much compared to what other people had.
(I want to say that I am not in any way justifying the racism and sexism that was in the press towards Meghan and Harry, just saying that, as other members point out, is not unicum to them and they are not the sole, poor martyrs of tabloids hate)

 

[Heavs]

Harry's relationship with his dad and "suffering as a child" are private matters which may be debatable , but Harry has a right in my opinion to voice an opinion about it.

What I really don't get is Harry complaining he had "to go to Nepal" because there was no one else available to do it, as if that were some kind of abuse or an unreasonable request. Isn't going on overseas trip on behalf of your country part a Royal Family's job? Part of what essentially they are paid to do?

I lrecently earned in one of Spanish forums here on TRF that Prince Felipe, when he was only 15, had to go on solo event (i.e without his parents) in Colombia (that is, in another continent) to represent his country. What is so appaling then about a 30-year-old Harry having to go to Nepal or wherever he was needed to go?

I know Harry was going through a rough time and I don't want to judge him as I know how those phases are for many people, but did he think he could just stay in London getting drunk and getting high as he admitted to Oprah that he was doing?

It seems so. He's several times now complained about doing actual royal work and meeting the plebs and how he didn't want to be there and meet people who were theoretically worse off than him but "free". He doesn't seem to realise most people *do not* have the choice to work or not or cannot leave their dire circumstances.

I think he looked at a lot of his friends who had trust funds or family jobs they showed up to a couple of times a week and spent the rest of the time partying and thought that was what he wanted to do.

It is part of the job of the royal families to visit places, meet people and give official recognition to hard work that isn't otherwise acknowledged in return for a very privileged life and he has given no indication of what he wanted to do apart from that once he quit the army and before he started getting paid to talk about his family.

It may not have been what he wanted but he only clocked up about 100 engagements in 2015 the year he started full time royal duties and was FAR outdone by his grandparents, aunt, uncles and elderly cousins as well as his brother.

In 2016 - the year he went to Nepal - he did 180 engagements over 94 days and he was 11th in the league table IluvBertie produced. His father and step mother did two overseas tours that year and four the next year and his brother did two as well. He may well have been struggling with his life and mental health but it wasn't "burnout" from the job.

It might not have helped that he was in a long distance relationship and constantly flying back and forward to Canada.

 

[Denville]

but this is what he's doing now wiht his life. This is how he's making his living. I remember a year ago that he did a talk for JP Morgan and it was rumoured that it was about his mental health. I thought "How long can he do talks like htat, and make money out of it"? ANd it seems like he can spin it out quite a lot...

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

I was flabbergasted by his claim that Diana was chased because she was with a person of color. Wasn’t Diana followed by the paparazzis no matter who she dated after Charles? She was followed everywhere. It wasn’t about Dodd’s race.

I kept thinking I was reading it wrong. ANYONE Diana dated was going to get massive attention. And they did.

He seemed to be saying, unless I completely misunderstood, that Diana’s death was due to her dating someone of color. (Didn’t yesterday he blame Martin Bashir, the press in general for her death in his statement about The Interview?) I thought it was due to a number of poor decisions including: not wearing a seatbelt, choosing to speed through the streets of Paris, a driver that was legally drunk, security they didn’t have her best interests at heart- and other factors I’m probably leaving out. Maybe I just didn’t get what he was saying though.

 

[Somebody]

For as much as Harry is complaining about not wanting to pass on the suffering, it is striking to see how much at the same time Harry and Meghan are coveting -by seeking the limelight to invade their own privacy and that of their family- what in their own words is causing them enormous amounts of stress and suffering up to midnight crying (just before they themselves triggered a lot of media attention by announcing the Oprah interview) and cringing at the relentless media (at any time and any place).

 

[TLLK]

It IS off putting,. I never thought Harry was bright and I thought that perhaps he had some problems.. but I thought that he was sincere in wanting to do his job, both in the army and also in his royal duties, because he liked people. People have said that he was "so obviously warm hearted and genuine" in dealing with kids and people esp. those in trouble.. and that that could not be faked... and now, it appears from his OWN LIPS that he WAS faking.. that he didn't like meeting people who were less fortunate than himself- NOT it seems because it upset him to see them but because he was less free than they were and he just didn't want to do those awful tours.
So I'm kind of thinking that my feeling that he was going over the top a lot of the time in his "look here, I'm jolly warm hearted Harry the friendly Prince" was a correct instinct.... and that it was pretty much all an act.

I'm reminded that this was the couple who wanted to make the Commonwealth their focus when they were still considered senior royals. Meghan decorated her veil with the Commonwealth floral emblems. How must the people who met him during all of his solo and joint tours be feeling now? What about the ones in the UK who genuinely believed that he was happy to see them and promote their charities, sports leagues, schools etc...

 

[Somebody]

It seems so. He's several times now complained about doing actual royal work and meeting the plebs and how he didn't want to be there and meet people who were theoretically worse off than him but "free". He doesn't seem to realise most people *do not* have the choice to work or not or cannot leave their dire circumstances.

I think he looked at a lot of his friends who had trust funds or family jobs they showed up to a couple of times a week and spent the rest of the time partying and thought that was what he wanted to do.

It is part of the job of the royal families to visit places, meet people and give official recognition to hard work that isn't otherwise acknowledged in return for a very privileged life and he has given no indication of what he wanted to do apart from that once he quit the army and before he started getting paid to talk about his family.

It may not have been what he wanted but he only clocked up about 100 engagements in 2015 the year he started full time royal duties and was FAR outdone by his grandparents, aunt, uncles and elderly cousins as well as his brother.

In 2016 - the year he went to Nepal - he did 180 engagements over 94 days and he was 11th in the league table IluvBertie produced. His father and step mother did two overseas tours that year and four the next year and his brother did two as well. He may well have been struggling with his life and mental health but it wasn't "burnout" from the job.

It might not have helped that he was in a long distance relationship and constantly flying back and forward to Canada.

Good point. Being tired of all the traveling is somewhat understandable if you are traveling a lot in your private life and in addition also have to do so traveling for work. However, I am sure many people would love the flexibility that Harry had in being able to travel back and forth because he wasn't tied to an 8-5 job with limited days off and had the money to spend on endless plane tickets. Is it tiring, sure, the lifestyle he chose was tiring; but I guess he thought it was worth it to spend time with his girlfriend at the time.

 

[Erin9]

That was what struck me as well.

Harry supposedly has everything he wants right now, so why the constant whining?

I find that odd too.

I don’t think truly happy people constantly publicly lash out like this. (So much for one and done. It’s over and over and over again....)

And I don’t think any good therapist would advise doing what he’s doing to his family. Makes me wonder about a lot of things honestly.

 

[Mary-Rose]

-With great power comes great responsibility-. For me it seems Harry lost both it .. and now he is unhappy and is doing everything to get back some kind of power..

 

[camelot23ca]

It seems so. He's several times now complained about doing actual royal work and meeting the plebs and how he didn't want to be there and meet people who were theoretically worse off than him but "free". He doesn't seem to realise most people *do not* have the choice to work or not or cannot leave their dire circumstances.

I think he looked at a lot of his friends who had trust funds or family jobs they showed up to a couple of times a week and spent the rest of the time partying and thought that was what he wanted to do.

Yes, I think Harry’s idea of normal is likely skewed by the social circle he grew up in. No doubt many of his friends come from wealthy families who made their own money, or who inherited it, with no strings attached. It’s no one’s concern if those families want to fund a life of idle privilege for their children. So he sees some of his peers putting in minimal hours at a cushy job that pays well, or getting funded by their parents for various vanity projects/hobby jobs, or simply just partying for years on end, and doesn’t think it’s fair that he can’t do that.

Of course there are also many people who grew up privileged whose parents expected them to work exceedingly hard in school, and then to find a career and work exceedingly hard at that, too. So even within very specific socioeconomic circumstances you can choose your “normal.”

 

[Erin9]

The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 4: April 2021 -

That is what I feel too. Whether it is his wife, or Oprah, or whoever, I think he is being encouraged to say those things by people who are posing as his friends or claiming to want to help him. I don't think it is all about the money or being in the spotlight.

I think you’re right. I do think he’s being encouraged to believe by some people that it is somehow helpful to air a bunch of very private issues publicly. I don’t think he reached that conclusion all by himself. It’s not a conclusion I share.

I do see parallels between him and Diana.....just not the ones he sees. This is all very sad IMO.

 

[Mbruno]

-With great power comes great responsibility-. For me it seems Harry lost both it .. and now he is unhappy and is doing everything to get back some kind of power..

As sixth in line to the throne and presumably going further down over time, he would never have any real "power" so to speak. His fate would be at best to live like his uncles and aunts do now. But, on the other hand, he says he decided when he was 20 that he didn't want a royal life or a royal job and that he felt trapped by it (his own words to Oprah).


I guess he feels empowered in some kind of delusional way now and enjoys being the center of attention in California and in the US media. However, as much as he talks about the RF as an abusive institution that made him a prisoner, he still introduces himself as "Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex" and has not renounced his position in the line of succession. He also (apparently) wants his children to have princely titles and to be in the line of succession (as they are anyway by law). Why does he want his family to be associated with an institution which he claims is so heartless, cold and abusive?