Charles & Camilla: How has your opinion changed since the wedding?

[rmay286]

I think you're right that they have a happy marriage, and you can infer that from their public behaviour, but I still think people have to remember that a judgment can only go so far based on what you publicly see of people. Sometimes I think that unpleasant stories about Charles and Camilla's married life, and/or individual behaviour, are going to come out after both of them pass away (hopefully many decades from now) and the same people who said "see, Diana's public image was just a facade and totally inaccurate" are going to say "I don't believe a word of it because Charles and Camilla looked happy in public." The full story about people never comes out until their lives are over, and never even then.

 

[Skydragon]

I don't know why everyone is having so much trouble understanding this. It makes sense to me. Appearing in public is the "job" of members of the royal family. In private life, most people don't accompany their spouses on their jobs. Royal spouses are expected to.

We know a fair bit about the public lives of Charles and Camilla as "working partners" in their royal duties. We know very little about their private life at home as husband and wife. Yes, they are also husband and wife in public, but in public we only see a small aspect of their lives. If my mom and dad worked together in public, they wouldn't act identically to the way they act at home. Public behaviour is never a full and fair representation of private behaviour.

I suppose it is phrases such as 'obligated'. I am 'expected' to turn up for certain events, I am not obligated. As a wife I go to support my husband, something that most wives would do. Sorry is the wife that is not prepared to show support for her husband, IMO. That isn't to say that you cannot have independent activities and causes. Hubby would be rather out of place at some of my causes, but he supports me 1000% and frequently asks if I would like him to 'help out or attend'.

 

[jcbcode99]

I also support my husband by attending functions or events that are probably not suited to my own likes and interests--but I go because it not only is expected but it is also the proper thing to do. Likewise, he attends functions and events with me because he is expected to do so as well. THat is part of the marriage committment.

 

[Russophile]

The NFL network is on at our house 24-7.
PITY ME!!!!!



Actually, I like it. There's a lot that Mr. Russo and I have in common and that's one of the essential factors of a good marriage. With Camilla and Charles, she has a lot of things as well that she shares with him. It's not like she lied to him about loving the outdoors and fishing and playing polo, she genuinely likes it.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I think you're right that they have a happy marriage, and you can infer that from their public behaviour, but I still think people have to remember that a judgment can only go so far based on what you publicly see of people. Sometimes I think that unpleasant stories about Charles and Camilla's married life, and/or individual behaviour, are going to come out after both of them pass away (hopefully many decades from now) and the same people who said "see, Diana's public image was just a facade and totally inaccurate" are going to say "I don't believe a word of it because Charles and Camilla looked happy in public." The full story about people never comes out until their lives are over, and never even then.

No kidding....take my own family! To outsiders we looked like the perfect family. Beautiful Mom, Dad with a prestige job, attractive bright children, lovely brick colonial house in the suburbs. My teachers were always holding me up as some marvel of successful middle class upbringing. In truth, our family was as chaotic and dysfunctional as it gets... I look at photos of us now and I shake my head in disbelief. We could have been in a TV commercial...we were so beautiful and "normal".

Another good example is JFK and Jackie Kennedy. I am not old enough to remember that Presidency but looking at photos, they appeared to be a gorgeous idealized American family. Beautiful couple with beautiful children who lived in beautiful homes and took perfect vacations and hung around glamourous people. Learning about their incredibly complex and difficult relationship(see "America's Queen" by Sarah Bradford for those of you who insist on a quoted source) was really a revelation.

The late Princess of Wales's tragedy is that she never learned how to hide her feelings and didnt seem to want to try. She was that rare type of aristocrat who let it all hang it and while that was appealing to the masses
and part of her huge appeal, it didn't go over well at all within the Royal family and her social circle...it just was not done that way.

So I am saying that the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall might in fact be quite content together...considering all the pain that was involved in finally getting them together I hope they are. But we cannot know for sure simply by how they appear in public. It's not that simple.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

So I am saying that the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall might in fact be quite content together...considering all the pain that was involved in finally getting them together I hope they are. But we cannot know for sure simply by how they appear in public. It's not that simple.

The question is IMHO whether you believe in fairytales or not. People who live together in close relationships have all their own problems with each other. Even in marriages who appear to be "made in heaven" it happens that both are developping their personality and find that they have to accommodate new developments, opinions, wishes and behaviour that wasn't there before. How they deal with this "growing" is, viewed from the later perspective of the historian in case of prominent couples, up to interpretation.

But - for Charles and Camilla speaks the information from the Dimbleby-book about their relationship - note that Charles agreed to all the statements in Dimbleby's book before it was published, so this is how Charles sees it, too:

From page 277:

Her (Camilla's) warmth, her lack of ambition or guile, her good humour and her gentleness endeared her to the (Royal) household.The Prince had come to regard her as his best friend, in whom, more than in any other, he could totally confide. She was, as he would later explain, his "touchstone" and his "sounding board". They were not often alone together but they talked frequently and at length on the telephone, and in the process their feelings for each other grew in strength and intensity to the point where their deep freindship could properly be described as "love".

Page 293 - description of his honeymoon with Diana:

"When he was not sailing and bathing, he sat in the sun reading from a selection of books provided for him by van der Post (a philosopher-guru of the prince at that time)." From a letter he wrote on that honeymoon:
"Diana dashes about chatting up all the sailors and the cooks in the galley etc. while I remain hermit-like on the verandah-deck, sunk with pure joy into one of Laurens van der Post's books..."

And here's a pic from his recent cruise in the Carribean with Camilla, his "touchstone":

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/charlesDM2202_468x310.jpg

Somehow I'm not afraid of what the world will find out about their marriage after their demise. If after so many years a pic like this is possible, I believe all is well with them.

 

[rmay286]

That is a lot of proof that they're happy together.

I wasn't thinking that people would discover Charles and Camilla had an unhappy marriage, actually--eg. I'm not anticipating stories about fights and misery behind the scenes! I had something much more subtle in mind. I wouldn't make sweeping statements about fairytales and happy endings because back in the days of Charles and Diana people did so, and they turned out to be completely wrong. I don't feel I know that much about Charles and Camilla really, and I have two such inconsistent pictures of them (eg. Camilla calling her first husband "it" yet being very loyal to Charles) that I feel I still haven't got the big picture. So I while I have absolutely no reason to doubt that they're very happy, I don't want to make too many conclusions about this relationship.

To go back on topic about how my opinion of Camilla has changed...I saw her outfit at Peter's wedding and I remembered that a few years ago I found her very unattractive. And now I think that while Camilla isn't particularly attractive, she usually looks very nice and knows how to dress perfectly for the occasion. She actually reminds me of the Queen in that characteristic.

 

[love_cc]

And here's a pic from his recent cruise in the Carribean with Camilla, his "touchstone":

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_03/charlesDM2202_468x310.jpg

Somehow I'm not afraid of what the world will find out about their marriage after their demise. If after so many years a pic like this is possible, I believe all is well with them.

I think the photo is not a recent one. However I have no objection about the description about their relationships with stablitiy,warmth and harmony. Yes they are and they have always given me this impression when I paid interest in their news.

I don't have much reserves about their relationships except possible clashes of personalies occasionally. It is normal because even my parents have experienced these throught their marriage. The most important thing is that Prince Charles and Camilla have their strengths of affections to find solutions for those clashes and keeping their relationships going.

I only hope that we can see Camilla more in her public events.

 

[Madame Royale]

we were so beautiful...

And modest, too...

As for Camilla and Charles! It's enjoyable to look at photographs when you know, even without knowing them personally, that they are friends aswell as husband and wife. My parents have been married a long time and have, as is the case with any couple, gone through some hard times, but they stuck through it together and sorted what needed to be sorted which makes the happier times all the more satisfying.

As for spousal support. My parents have always supported one another and gone to any event or function the other is invited too. Naturally, the other is normally invited too, but my father has interests (the stock market, sport, gym work) my mother doesn't, and my mother has interests (shopping, gardening, shopping, jewellery, shopping) that my father doesn't much care for. Yet they support each other because showing you care is an unmistakable expression of your committment to them. At the end of the day, my parents would be lost without one another, and they know it.

They are definitly suited down to the grown, Camilla and Charles. Of that there could be no doubt!

 

[Skydragon]

There must be a new poll due out, I have just been asked my opinion on who I want to succeed (they clearly don't know how it works) and what I want Camilla to be called. I'm guessing you can't imagine my answers!

 

[bertie5252003]

Even after all this time I still have never warmed to Camilla... it still says to me behave badly and all will be well for you moderators you can delete this if you think it too much all over again but I just wanted to have my say finally about her.

 

[scooter]

I agree bertie. I have on many occasions tried to point out that some people dislike Charles and/or Camilla because of their own actions. But somehow it seems to get sloughed off as 'the rabid Diana fans....', when it's not about the 1st wife at all.

 

[chaimae]

Even after all this time I still have never warmed to Camilla... it still says to me behave badly and all will be well for you moderators you can delete this if you think it too much all over again but I just wanted to have my say finally about her.

i think you are free to say what you think it s your vue point .
me too i never like Diana .
but camilla i was and i stell a big fan of this women

 

[muriel]

I agree bertie. I have on many occasions tried to point out that some people dislike Charles and/or Camilla because of their own actions. But somehow it seems to get sloughed off as 'the rabid Diana fans....', when it's not about the 1st wife at all.

whats your point, scooter?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I agree bertie. I have on many occasions tried to point out that some people dislike Charles and/or Camilla because of their own actions.

But then these people probably like noone at all, because I can see few people who are "better" than those two. We are all sinners under The Lord's rules! Merry christmas to you all, for His son, the reedeemer was born on this time.

 

[Idriel]

I can see few people who are "better" than those two.

Umm. Have a little faith in Mankind!

Merry christmas to all.

 

[Skydragon]

I agree bertie. I have on many occasions tried to point out that some people dislike Charles and/or Camilla because of their own actions. But somehow it seems to get sloughed off as 'the rabid Diana fans....', when it's not about the 1st wife at all.

I really fail to see what this has to do with Camillas current events! But with the full knowledge that it will be deleted from this thread I will reply to your post repeating the same old same old from you. You hold his ex wife up as lady wonderful, when in fact she committed her own 'actions' (repeatedly with numerous partners, some married, engaged or otherwise spoken for) and unless you have absolute proof, it is only your opinion that the ex wife only indulged after her husband. So if it's not about the first wife (ex wife), surely you should be on the ex wifes thread condemning her!

 

[scooter]

I really fail to see what this has to do with Camillas current events! But with the full knowledge that it will be deleted from this thread I will reply to your post repeating the same old same old from you. You hold his ex wife up as lady wonderful, when in fact she committed her own 'actions' (repeatedly with numerous partners, some married, engaged or otherwise spoken for) and unless you have absolute proof, it is only your opinion that the ex wife only indulged after her husband. So if it's not about the first wife (ex wife), surely you should be on the ex wifes thread condemning her!

I do not hold his first wife up as Lady Wonderful. Please cut and paste where I have done so. I simply point out that if anyone does not like Charles or camilla on the basis of their own actions we get sloughed off as Diana Loonies which you have just done right there. It's not about the first wife. Some of the things I dont like them for were before Diana came onto the scene, even though we did not learn about them until after the fact. As far as absolute proof, would you consider a copy of the Camillagate transcript sufficient proof? Where Camilla refers to her husband APB as 'it' and hopes that the hospital strike continues and Charles and Camilla plan which of their friends house they can commit adultery in?

 

[Russophile]

And that's water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. Charles and Camilla make a terrific team, they support each other and compliment each other greatly. Most of all, they make each other happy.

 

[Skydragon]

I simply point out that if anyone does not like Charles or camilla on the basis of their own actions we get sloughed off as Diana Loonies which you have just done right there.

Where precisely have I used the word loonies, you read much into my posts that has never been written or even inferred! I have merely pointed out the argument some seem to come up with (she only did it because Charles had sex with Camilla first), cannot in any way be proven!

It's not about the first wife. Some of the things I dont like them for were before Diana came onto the scene, even though we did not learn about them until after the fact.

So you don't like them, for what, before Diana came on the scene, most people knew/know very little about their relationship pre Diana as neither they nor their friends have spoken about it.

As far as absolute proof, would you consider a copy of the Camillagate transcript sufficient proof? Where Camilla refers to her husband APB as 'it' and hopes that the hospital strike continues and Charles and Camilla plan which of their friends house they can commit adultery in?

Nobody, afaik, has denied they committed adultery but it seems to be hard work for some, to admit that Diana also committed adultery, not just with one partner but with a variety. And whilst you are always happy to mention the Camillagate tape, you seem to gloss over the squidgygate tape and the sex noises being made, even the title says a lot!

 

[scooter]

I really fail to see what this has to do with Camillas current events! But with the full knowledge that it will be deleted from this thread I will reply to your post repeating the same old same old from you. You hold his ex wife up as lady wonderful, when in fact she committed her own 'actions' (repeatedly with numerous partners, some married, engaged or otherwise spoken for) and unless you have absolute proof, it is only your opinion that the ex wife only indulged after her husband. So if it's not about the first wife (ex wife), surely you should be on the ex wifes thread condemning her!

I am not reading anything into it. You said above I 'hold his ex wife up as lady wonderful'. I ask you again to please cut and paste where I have done so. Also, I was not aware that there was an actual 'ex wifes thread condemning her'. Is that the exact title? *Gone off to check*

 

[Skydragon]

I am not reading anything into it.

You have clearly read into my post that I consider all Diana fans, loonies, this is what you wrote -

I simply point out that if anyone does not like Charles or camilla on the basis of their own actions we get sloughed off as Diana Loonies which you have just done right there.

Clearly I never said such a thing but then again you liked to say 'A CERTAIN POSTER SAID UNLESS IT WAS IN A STATEMENT RELEASED BY ......', which again was untrue and something you had misinterpreted or had in your own mind.

You said above I 'hold his ex wife up as lady wonderful'. I ask you again to please cut and paste where I have done so.

Read through some of the posts you have made in the threads and you might get an idea where I get that impression from. It is worth rereading my post as I said you 'hold his ex up as lady wonderful', not that you had ever posted such a comment. I have searched the threads and not found ONE post from you that condemns the ex for her numerous adulterous affairs.

so, I was not aware that there was an actual 'ex wifes thread condemning her'. Is that the exact title? *Gone off to check*

Nor is there a thread entitled condemning Camilla, but you seem determined to vent your spleen/condemn Camilla in every thread. Perhaps there ought to be a thread discussing the ex's many affairs, but it might exceed the bandwidth available!

I notice, that you have been unable to clarify your statement

It's not about the first wife. Some of the things I dont like them for were before Diana came onto the scene, even though we did not learn about them until after the fact.

I ask again -
So you didn't like them, for what? Before Diana came on the scene, most people knew/know very little about their relationship pre Diana as neither they nor their friends have spoken about it.

 

[MARG]

. . . . .I ask again - So you didn't like them, for what? Before Diana came on the scene, most people knew/know very little about their relationship pre Diana as neither they nor their friends have spoken about it.

I have wondered that myself. There have been more than a few who have postulated the "tragic lovers separated by the BRF who resumed an illicit relationship after they were both married to others" scenario.

Does anyone have any irrefutable truth that this is a fact? Because IMO it seems that more than a few (yes Scooter I am including you) are basing their opinion on Charles and Camilla "since the wedding" on largely unsubstatiated gossip regarding the above.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I personally find it sad that some people should condemn Charles and Camilla because of the Camilla-gate transcript. While it is true that they talked about where and when they could spend time together andyes, this discussion was quite success-orientated and thus not necessarily cosy, it shows the difficulties these two were in at that time. I'd have prefered it, too, if they could simply have fixed a date and a place and that would have been that.

But the most important thing for me was the clear impression of deep love, of finding the other more important than oneself, of offering comfort, praise, friendship and understanding. Of longing, deep inner longing born out of love. That touched me very much. As we all know from various biographies that are on the serious side, Charles did not find this kind of love with Diana and I guess the marriage of Camilla and APB did not offer this kind of deep feelings as well, even though they at least managed to stay friends, propably on accepting that their marriage wasn't enough.

The whole tape for me only shows how very intimate, very close and loving they are and that Charles is not afraid to tell Camilla how very, very close he wants to be with her - which for a gentleman of his age and upbringing was quite something to do. And now the whole world can judge him by these most intimate feelings - that is the shame, not the talk in itself.

 

[Jacknch]

I'm afraid I am one of those types of people who when confronted with something he cannot change or is out of his control just accepts it and moves on. For me personally, the failure of C & D's marriage and her death can be looked back on as being sad but it's pointless arguing or regretting or wishing it had never happened! No one in their right mind should be angry over C getting married to C - unless your anger can bring some result to what you want you're all wasting your time and would be psychologically happier if you channelled your energies more positively! It's not an ideal situation to have Diana divorced and dead and Camilla divorced and re-married to Charles but that's what happened - it's reality! Accept it or move to Denmark where having a royal family is a much happier and easier thing to have!

Under the circumstances, I think Camilla has carried out her role really well. She's funny, laughs alot, is friendly, dresses well and looks after herself. She seems to be a great support to her husband (who by all accounts can be a difficult person to be with) and so I'm pleased we have her. At least she doesn't give interviews or goes running to the media to tell tales like C & D did. At least she doesn't appear to have a hidden agenda to get one up on everyone else lie C & D did. All in all she has acted more royally than some of the royals. She's not perfect nor is she Mother Theresa, but she's what we've got and I for one am not going to live out the rest of my days lamenting over the past and wishing D was still alive or William was next in line to the throne.

 

[Roslyn]

But the most important thing for me was the clear impression of deep love, of finding the other more important than oneself, of offering comfort, praise, friendship and understanding. Of longing, deep inner longing born out of love. That touched me very much.

(snip)

The whole tape for me only shows how very intimate, very close and loving they are and that Charles is not afraid to tell Camilla how very, very close he wants to be with her - which for a gentleman of his age and upbringing was quite something to do. And now the whole world can judge him by these most intimate feelings - that is the shame, not the talk in itself.

This is how I think of the tape, too.

I felt very sorry for them both having that intimate conversation made public, but it did provide an insight into their feelings for each other and the dynamics of their relationship which we otherwise would never have known.

 

[Warren]

Today's round of personal bickering posts has been removed. Let's have no more please.

Warren
British Forums moderator

 

[scooter]

I have wondered that myself. There have been more than a few who have postulated the "tragic lovers separated by the BRF who resumed an illicit relationship after they were both married to others" scenario.

Does anyone have any irrefutable truth that this is a fact? Because IMO it seems that more than a few (yes Scooter I am including you) are basing their opinion on Charles and Camilla "since the wedding" on largely unsubstatiated gossip regarding the above.

Marg, please explain to me how a direct quote from Charles and Camilla on TAPE is unsubstansiated gossip?

[ed by Warren: gratuitous introduction of material which has no relevance whatsoever to the thread topic.]

 

[kimebear]

As the tape was made well before the wedding and the topic of this thread is opinions of Charles and Camilla since the wedding, I believe that MARG's statement is fairly self explanatory.

 

[MARG]

. . . . . some of the things I dont like them for were before Diana came onto the scene, even though we did not learn about them until after the fact. . . . . . .

This was the part of the post I was referring to.

Marg, please explain to me how a direct quote from Charles and Camilla on TAPE is unsubstansiated gossip?

I fail to see how any tape, post Diana, could explain dislike of them from before Diana. It perplexes me greatly. The tape in question merely verifys the relationship at that time! It does not however, answer the question I posed.

I have wondered that myself. There have been more than a few who have postulated the "tragic lovers separated by the BRF who resumed an illicit relationship after they were both married to others" scenario.

Does anyone have any irrefutable truth that this is a fact?

Which was, in itself, a reiteration of Skydragons question;

I ask again - So you didn't like them, for what? Before Diana came on the scene, most people knew/know very little about their relationship pre Diana as neither they nor their friends have spoken about it.