Frances Shand Kydd (1936-2004) - Diana's Mother

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by chelly

No wonder Diana had relationship issues. I had forgotten some of this.

I think it depends on personality, Earl Spencer clearly has had relationship issues too, while both of Dianas sisters are and remain married to the same partner.
Diana was unlucky in that sense that she was a type of character who would drown into emotional issues (her own and especially other people's) instead of moving on in a pragmatic way.

[Zonk]

I think the ages of the siblings definitely played into how each dealt with their relationships.

Jane and Sarah were older and away at boarding school, so they might have privy to the good times as well as any arguments that Frances and Johnnie might have had. For them it could have been, our parents are sad but thank God that's over. They were also developed emotionally.

Charles and Diana were fairly young and it could have been devastating to them.

Look at how Charles and Diana have had issues with their relationships and Jane and Sarah (from what we know) appear to have stable relationships.

I am 11 years older than my younger sister, our parents divorced when I was 22 and my sister was 11. I remember the good and bad times my sister, all she knows is bad times of my parents marriage.

At least the Spencer children had boarding school so they could techincally get away from the tension in the house.

[sirhon11234]

Originally Posted by Zonk

I think the ages of the siblings definitely played into how each dealt with their relationships.

Jane and Sarah were older and away at boarding school, so they might have privy to the good times as well as any arguments that Frances and Johnnie might have had. For them it could have been, our parents are sad but thank God that's over. They were also developed emotionally.

Charles and Diana were fairly young and it could have been devastating to them.

Look at how Charles and Diana have had issues with their relationships and Jane and Sarah (from what we know) appear to have stable relationships.

I am 11 years older than my younger sister, our parents divorced when I was 22 and my sister was 11. I remember the good and bad times my sister, all she knows is bad times of my parents marriage.

At least the Spencer children had boarding school so they could techincally get away from the tension in the house.

It appeared that Sarah had some self esteem issues in the 70s when she suffered from an eating disorder. Whether it was caused by her parent's relationship or lack of control in her life I do not know.

[Zonk]

This is true and we have no idea of Jane's struggles (if she had any).


My point was that its possible that the age and maturity level of Sarah and Jane might account why they appear to have strong marriages as opposed to Charles and Diana being fairly young and having non successful relationships despite the fact that all dealt with the fallout of the demise of the marriage of Johnnie and Frances.

[gfg02]

Memories Of Diana : Attending William's Christmas Nativity Play
These pictures are from December 9th 1986 and show Princess Diana arriving with her mother Frances Shand Kydd, to attend Prince William's school Christmas nativity play.
Memories Of Diana : Attending William's Christmas Nativity Play* - Princess Diana Remembered


Others:
http://www.spokeo.com/Frances+Shand+...03721:32845171
http://www.spokeo.com/Frances+Shand+...05781:30649101

[roseroyal]

Originally Posted by gfg02

Memories Of Diana : Attending William's Christmas Nativity Play
These pictures are from December 9th 1986 and show Princess Diana arriving with her mother Frances Shand Kydd, to attend Prince William's school Christmas nativity play.
Memories Of Diana : Attending William's Christmas Nativity Play* - Princess Diana Remembered

What I love about these pics is Diana looks and is acting like any other mummy who is coming to see the school play. Talking to the other kids.
Not surprised by this, but love it all the same.

[Dman]

Video Interview:

VIP - Shand Kydd - YouTube

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince William and Prince Henry called Diana's mother "Gran Fran".

In Diana, Sarah Bradford wrote:

Of all Diana's family, Frances Shand Kydd was the one who gave her the fullest support.

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

Sarah Bradford's book is a fine one. It's quite balanced.

Diana by Sarah Bradford is excellently written.

In Majesty magazine, it was written:

Frances Shand Kydd was the first to see her newborn grandson, Prince William.
'The hours spent waiting for a grandchild are the longest in any mother's life,' Frances said at the time. 'He is a beautiful child and Diana is very, very radiant and very, very well.'

In Diana: Her True Story, Andrew Morton wrote that when Prince Charles complained to Diana's mother that the Princess had delivered a boy with rusty hair (Prince Henry): "Mrs. Shand Kydd told him that he should be thankful his second son was born healthy. From that moment the Prince of Wales effectively excluded his mother-in-law from his life."

[Mermaid1962]

Sarah Bradford's book is a fine one. It's quite balanced.

[Dman]

It must have been hard on Frances to see her daughter go through so much and then died so tragically.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Over the whole Spencer drama the one person who comes out the worst for me is Francis' mother. Id be banned if I stated what I thought of her.
What kind of relationship did Francis have with Jane and Sarah? Did they have a better understanding of the divorce and realize their mother didn't abandon them? The oldest girls appear to be fine, the youngest kids have/had some serious problems.

[Dman]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Over the whole Spencer drama the one person who comes out the worst for me is Francis' mother. Id be banned if I stated what I thought of her.
What kind of relationship did Francis have with Jane and Sarah? Did they have a better understanding of the divorce and realize their mother didn't abandon them? The oldest girls appear to be fine, the youngest kids have/had some serious problems.

Despite all the drama the Spencer family went through, there's a bond mothers have with their children that a lot of things can't break. I think before she died, the past was put behind them.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Does anyone know how the Spencer children viewed their grandmother?
I suspect Francis would have been angry that her mother did the same thing to Diana that she did to her; by that I mean siding with Charles.
All this talk about social climbing makes me think how hypocritical people are for calling the Middleton's socialclimbers.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Diana by Sarah Bradford is excellently written.

I agree. I found Sally Bedell-Smith's bio rather catty and unconvincing. Tina Brown's was okay too. Anne Edwards not only got some of her facts wrong she came close to hagiography.

But Sarah Bradford Viscountess Bangor although sympathetic was very balanced in the treatment of her subject. She did not shy away from Diana's tragic neuroses and character flaws.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Does anyone know how the Spencer children viewed their grandmother?
I suspect Francis would have been angry that her mother did the same thing to Diana that she did to her; by that I mean siding with Charles.
All this talk about social climbing makes me think how hypocritical people are for calling the Middleton's socialclimbers.

It is very well possible that The Hon. Mrs Frances Shand Kydd simply sided with Charles because she agreed with his assessment and thought about the unsecure future Diana would have, while her grandchildren would more and more become "separated" from their mother because of their ever rising position withing the royal family and the monarchy.

It is very well possible that The Hon. Mrs Frances Shand Kydd had a clearer and sharper overview of the situation and a proper assessment of "well, what now... what is the best in this situation?" than her emotionally relatively unstable daughter (who relied on so-called "friends" as astrologists, fortune-tellers or a butler whom forgot what his proper job was).

When that is explained as "social climbing", tja... I explain it as a mother who made an assessment involving the interests of her grandsons, also for the longer term. Of course Diana would be very upset that her mother sided with the father of her grandsons, instead of with her own daughter. With that she is no different from countless ex-wives who are in conflict with their parents because they felt unsupported in a bitter divorce.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

It is very well possible that The Hon. Mrs Frances Shand Kydd simply sided with Charles because she agreed with his assessment and thought about the unsecure future Diana would have, while her grandchildren would more and more become "separated" from their mother because of their ever rising position withing the royal family and the monarchy.

It is very well possible that The Hon. Mrs Frances Shand Kydd had a clearer and sharper overview of the situation and a proper assessment of "well, what now... what is the best in this situation?" than her emotionally relatively unstable daughter (who relied on so-called "friends" as astrologists, fortune-tellers or a butler whom forgot what his proper job was).

When that is explained as "social climbing", tja... I explain it as a mother who made an assessment involving the interests of her grandsons, also for the longer term. Of course Diana would be very upset that her mother sided with the father of her grandsons, instead of with her own daughter. With that she is no different from countless ex-wives who are in conflict with their parents because they felt unsupported in a bitter divorce.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I apologize if English is not fluent to you. Diana did not have a grandson until 2013, long agger she was dead. I was not talking about Francis siding with Charles, Lady Fermoy did that; it was the same thing she did to her own daughter. I have no idea if Francis sided with Charles or Diana.
And calling the Spencers/Lady FerMoy social climbers goes far beyond the Wales' divorce. There were instances mentioned in earlier posts of Ruth marrying a man 20yrs older because of his status and wanting the brother but couldn't have him. Also the Spencers blindly pushing Diana along to marry Charles because he was the top prize. Those occurences are why I brought up social climbing.

[Duc_et_Pair]

My post was written from the viewpoint of Frances Shand Kydd, so the "grandsons" in question here were the princes William and Harry indeed. Diana's mother sided with the Charles/Philip camp, aiming for a solution in which both spouses could lead separate lifes but remain married for the sake of their sons, the monarchy and the nation.

This has been explained -not by you- as Frances Shand Kydd choosing for the social climb rather than for her own flesh-and-blood. The often turbulent relationship of mother and daughter was well known.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I don't believe Francis sided against Diana, it was Ruth Fermoy who did so.

[Moonmaiden23]

You are exactly right XC. Ruth Lady Fermoy, close friend of the Queen Mother, sided with the Establishment against grandaughter Diana not her mother Frances.

Before Frances died she reportedly said she regretted the day either of her daughters(Sarah and Diana) had ever laid eyes on Charles and left a written request to the PoW that he not attend her funeral...a request that he honored.

[Queen Camilla]

Moonmaiden23,

I do not believe this is true. Charles was at Ronald Reagan's funeral and could not be at two places at one time.

The Spencers and the Roches chased after the Royal Family. It would be the BRF that probably wished it had never laid eyes on the Spencers and Roches.