Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children


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Ish said:
Henry FitzRoy was Duke of Richmond and Somerset and Earl of Nottingham.

The title Duke of Richmond is presently held by Charles Henry Gordon-Lennox, the 10th Duke in its 4th creation.

The title Duke of Somerset is presently held by John Michael Edward Seymour, the 19th Duke in its 4th creation.

The title Earl of Nottingham is presently held by Daniel James Hatfield Finch-Hatton, the 12th Earl in its 7th creation. He is also the 17th Earl of Winchilsea.
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Well I guess those aren't just laying around unused then....


LaRae
 
I have always like the idea of Mercia (old kingdom, as is Wessex).

Duke of Mercia sounds good to me.
 
cepe said:
I have always like the idea of Mercia (old kingdom, as is Wessex).

Duke of Mercia sounds good to me.
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I'm with you cepe. Duke of Mercia is so much sounding beautiful.
 
eya said:
I'm with you cepe. Duke of Mercia is so much sounding beautiful.
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I think they need to use it a bit "politically" as well. I've noticed a tendency in Sweden when they give out Dukedoms to the royals it's usually the northern counties or the island counties. I think that might be because those are more scaresly populated and often forgotten in a general Swedish life, so I think it might be a concious move of the royal family to include them a bit extra. I wonder if the UK have such places?
 
Well, Mercia was a 'border province'. The trouble is, IMO, if the monarch continues to appoint Dukes (or Earls) with 'Ye olde English' names instead of the names of existing English counties then the whole thing starts to become quite Ruritanian. Just as Kate and Will have paid visits to their namesake city so could Harry and his wife to Sussex. There'd be no visits to Mercia, obviously.
 
So, if Harry and Chelsy do get back together, perhaps he'd become the Duke of Leeds. ;-)
 
Curryong said:
Well, Mercia was a 'border province'. The trouble is, IMO, if the monarch continues to appoint Dukes (or Earls) with 'Ye olde English' names instead of the names of existing English counties then the whole thing starts to become quite Ruritanian. Just as Kate and Will have paid visits to their namesake city so could Harry and his wife to Sussex. There'd be no visits to Mercia, obviously.
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Mercia does exist. there is a Mercian police region for example. there is also the Mercian Regiment, with PoW as Colonel.

what I like about it is that it covers part of the country which does not have royal representation at present.

so it's my idea and I like it :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Clarence doesn't have any geographical base at all and has a bad history going back centuries.

Sussex is ok but try saying Duchess of Sussex in a hurry!
 
That would be good and Chelsy could pop in to her old alma mater if she felt like it, lol.

Seriously though, Leeds has no royal connection to it, though it is an extinct dukedom. With Sussex (and Cambridge) there are links with King George III's sons and grandson, Queen Mary's mother, etc. With the exception of the Wessex earldom all the titles borne by Royal dukes that are currently in use have an historic connection to the throne.

Yes, the Duke of Clarence has an awful history.
 
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Has 'Duke' of Clarence even been used since the time of the Plantagenets?

I think it was used as part of an Earldom in the 1800's, one of Queen Victoria's sons.


LaRae
 
Prince Eddy, Edward VII's son, who died young in 1892 was Duke of Clarence and Avondale.

King William IV, known as 'Silly Billy' was also Duke of Clarence and St Andrews before coming to the throne.
 
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Ah ...not a happy history there for sure.


LaRae
 
A dukedom was a given for Harry up until Edward's earldom. Prince Edward is the only son of a sovereign in this dynasty going back to King George I not to be created a duke. He broke the mould. Although it may still happen.

No doubt Harry's wishes will be taken into account. He may well want to follow in Edward's shoes and take a lesser title and maybe even have any future children styled non-royal.

Also depending on when he marries he may well be raised to the peerage as a bachelor. Who knows he may never get married.

We have no real idea how Charles will grant titles. He may not follow the Queen's examples.
 
Was that by Edwards choice then to be an Earl as opposed to a Duke?


LaRae
 
Edward was only given an earldom however, because he is to inherit his father's title of Duke of Edinburgh after the Queen dies. So he will be a royal duke eventually. Harry will do what he wishes but even if he remains a bachelor (don't think he will) he'll be given a dukedom, IMO. Other bachelor princes were.
 
Of course Harry will be raised to the peerage one way or the other. Bachelor or married.

Edward won't receive his father's dukedom. If and when it merges with the crown he will receive a new creation of Edinburgh. At least this is the 'agreement'. Its not binding and Charles for a variety of reasons could change his mind. Or after all these years Edward may simply not want change in title.

In all likelihood Harry will be made a duke and not an earl but I can see him not wanting any children styled as royal highnesses. It gives them more chance of a normal upbringing.
 
The Edinburgh dukedom will almost for certain merge with the crown. The only way it wouldn't is for Charles, William and George to die before Philip and Queen. Then Charlotte would become Queen and Harry would inherit the Edinburgh dukedom.


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Why would Harry inherit the Edinburgh dukedom though? He could well have a dukedom of his own. Edward wouldn't be dead, hopefully. He would just receive the promised title from a new monarch (or her regent) after the Queen and Prince Philip's deaths.
 
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The dukedom of Edinburgh is hereditary. The Letters Patent specify the standard remainder of 'heirs male of body lawfully begotten'

If Charles, William and George die after Philip but before the Queen. The Crown passes to Charlotte and her descendants, the dukedom passes to Harry and his descendants.
 
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After the death of the Queen and Prince Philip however, the title merges with the Crown, especially if Charlotte would ascend the throne as a young single woman. Harry would undoubtedly have a dukedom of his own by then and would likely be regent until Charlotte was 18.

Therefore if there is a new creation then the title could be given to Edward by the new monarch as per the family agreement. I don't believe that whoever is on the throne in this hypothetical scenario, that Edward would be subjected by the sovereign to being leapfrogged over. He obviously accepted the terms of the agreement at the time the Earldom of Wessex was created.
 
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If Harry was already Duke of Sussex for example and the above scenario did somehow play out he would still inherit the dukedom of Edinburgh. He'd have two dukedoms.
 
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Rudolph said:
If Harry was already Duke of Sussex for example and the above scenario did somehow play out he would still inherit the dukedom of Edinburgh. He'd have two two dukedoms.
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Exactly! Just like when William becomes Duke of Cornwall he will still be Duke of Cambridge as well. So he will be Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge.
 
But can H really be Duke of Sussex ? Isn't Sussex now parted in West Sussex and East Sussex ?

Don't live in UK so i don't know if it's possible anyway but maybe someone from UK here can answer.

I won't be surprised if he's made Duke of London. No Royal history but as grand as it can be without :) Wasn't Churchill offered that title but said no ?

Or maybe he'll be given an Earldom.
Maybe that would open up for the possibility of not making his wife an H.R.H if she wants to continue to have a work ?
 
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Duke of London has only ever been considered once, for Churchill, because of his career. There has never been a peerage with the title. Dukes are usually for a region not for a city. The Duke of Edinburgh being a rare exception to that. Since London is pretty much incorporated into the Dukedom of Westminster, I would be even more surprised.

While Sussex does indeed have two lieutenants now, it is as far as I know, still considered one entity. Considering Edward is Earl of Wessex which doesn't even exist any more (there is no county of Wessex). So the new division in Essex doesn't really have any impact IMO,

Harry will be made a Duke, with an earl as a secondary title. Royal princes always are. Edward was made an earl but with the understanding he would inherit the Duke of Edinburgh when his father died. Harry's wife, even if only Countess, would still be a HRH. With Charles' plan to slim down, Harry's wife will be required to be a working royal.
 
Cambridge, York and Westminster all dukedoms plus cities in addition to Edinburgh. There was a Duke of Sussex before. He was the sixth son of George III.


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I see. Then he may be created Duke of Sussex anyway or maybe Duke of West Sussex and East Sussex.
The son of George III was Duke of Sussex before Sussex was divided.

Duke of Clarence is also an option.

Or maybe they will bring up a very old title like Exeter or Albermarle.

I personally would love to see Harry as Duke of Windsor. It is a way too grand title to not have any positive association. But it won't happen as long as QEII is the one offering the titles. She would probably vomit if someone dares to suggest it :-D

The best thing for Harry would be if he found someone from royal or aristocratic circles who are used to represent and do all the common "Royal duties" instead of having a successful career.

It is just not right that he can't marry someone he is in love with just because she then must give up all her dreams and plans. By the end there won't be any woman who wants to marry a royal prince (who are not expected to be king) because of that.
 
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Technically any title can be created. Duke of Hogwarts or Earl of the Universe can be used. If there is some name Harry is particularly struck with its possible to create a peerage using it.

Realistically though it will almost in all likelihood be Sussex because of its history as a dukedom
 
Skippyboo said:
Cambridge, York and Westminster all dukedoms plus cities in addition to Edinburgh. There was a Duke of Sussex before. He was the sixth son of George III.


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The Dukes of York and Cambridge are named not for the cities but the shires (counties), Yorkshire and Cambridgeshire. I said Edinburgh was the 'rare exception' not the only one, and yes Westminster is named for a city.
 
Rudolph said:
Technically any title can be created. Duke of Hogwarts or Earl of the Universe can be used. If there is some name Harry is particularly struck with its possible to create a peerage using it.

Realistically though it will almost in all likelihood be Sussex because of its history as a dukedom
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I understand that. I just speculated about possible title with royal connections. Ofcourse he can be granted a Dukedom that has never had a Royal Duke before. There are lots of realistic options.

Time will tell i guess but i don't see Sussex as the only possibility. There has only been one Duke of Sussex. Augustus Frederick was married twice and the only child of George III who never served in the military......

They need to start new traditions sooner or later becuase many titles with lots of Royal history aren't going to be available for a heck of a long time like Cambridge, Gloucester and Kent while Albany is unavailable, Connaught is in Ireland and Edinburgh is reserved for Edward.

Had i been Harry i would have been more happy with a very old title that hasn't been used for many centuries.

There are very old Grand dukedoms with Royal connections available that haven't been used for a very long time like Exeter, Hereford, Kendal in England or Ross in Scotland.
 
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