The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[Curryong]

Thank you for pointing out that not every miscarriage needs to be characterized as a trauma. I had an early miscarriage between my two children and the cause was what is known as a “blighted” ovum. The egg was defective enough so the embryo could only progress up to a certain point and then miscarry, with no complete genetic information. I was proud of my body for dealing with it. Also, I felt relieved as I really didn’t feel ready for another child. Six months later I was pregnant and felt ready.
Also, the chances of Megan miscarrying are much higher at her age.

No, it's perhaps fortunate that all miscarriages aren't traumatic, like your experience. But many many are, which is why the heads of organisations that assist women and their partners in the grief process have come out in the last twenty four hours to praise Meghan for writing her heartfelt letter.

And Meghan's age need not necessarily have been a pointer to her miscarriage. She after all had no problem in carrying Archie to term. And miscarriages happen to women of all ages.

 

[QueenMathilde]

So, to change the subject - have we heard anything about their Thanksgiving plans?

 

[Madame Verseau]

This is so sad for for the Sussexes. I hope they took the time to heal and still work on it. Making it public is perhaps

If the press drag out the Markles, especially the father , to use this try to guilt the Sussexes to let them into their lives (and get fresh material) is beyond sick.

 

[Betsypaige]

I completely agree with you. The style is bad, especially dramatic first part. The topic is unclear. I'm sympathetic and support being open about miscarriges, but leave it Sussexes to announce it in NY Times.

What exactly is wrong with The NY Times? It’s hardly a gossip rag.

I was an English major in college, I love reading, I love words....and I’m not even a fan of Meghan as you guys know. However, I don’t understand why some of you are analyzing this letter as if you are grading her ...Who cares about style or whether any publisher would ever accept a manuscript written this way? The point of the letter is being missed...which is that Meghan wanted to share her pain, for whatever reason ...and I don’t think that’s for us to judge.

Do you think the RF, I mean, the Queen, The PoW and the Cambridges were informed of the pregnancy and of the miscarriage in July ? Or did they get to know about it from the NY Times like the rest of us?

Man, I do hope Harry told his family...he seems to be on good terms with his father, so I’d like to think he did. I doubt we’ll ever know.

 

[adjovie]

Man, I do hope Harry told his family...he seems to be on good terms with his father, so I’d like to think he did. I doubt we’ll ever know.

It was reported in the news (I think SkyNews or BBC) that they informed the Royal family at the time it happened in July. If I can find the YouTube link, I'll post it…

 

[Osipi]

As someone that has experienced a miscarriage, I can identify with the loss the Sussexes have faced. It happens to the best of couples and hopefully it will not affect a future pregnancy for Meghan.

She decided that she wished to share what they've gone through with the public and the NYTimes decided it was worth printing. What the general public thinks and feels about it really doesn't matter. There's really no right and no wrong about this. It's just basically sharing information for those that care to read it.

 

[gerry]

I'm usually a lurker but I had to reply to this...

I think that there is a stigma about miscarriage/stillbirth in most of the English speaking world. Not only because of it involves "reproductive issues" but also because it involves loss and grief which our culture handles very poorly. People in our culture are often very uncomfortable with grief and talking about loss and the resulting grief makes people uncomfortable. There is a silent expectation that you are expected not to talk about it - "stiff upper lip". (This stigma is gradually diminishing). People do differ in how they cope with grief, it's very individual and not everyone will wish to talk about it. However, even if the pregnancy has not been publicly shared, some people will still wish to tell others about a miscarriage/stillbirth because of the emotional impact. Others will not. Both approaches should be respected.

I personally have never had a miscarriage but I've been close to people who have. However, I have lost a child (5 years ago). The grief you experience makes some people actively avoid you. Sometimes other people will be so uncomfortable that they say hurtful things because their discomfort without thinking about how it will hurt you. In the case of loss of a child, some people will become visibly uncomfortable when you even mention your late child's name in passing. Both types of grief are so isolating in our culture.

Although the 2 losses (miscarriage/stillbirth and loss of a child) are not the same, they share many similarities including this stigma. The bereaved support group I attended after my son's death, also offers support groups for families who've experienced miscarriage/stillbirth as well as for losses of other family members than children.

Although I've questioned some things Meghan and Harry have said or done, I have no issue with this article and I view it positively as a way of lessening stigma and the isolation these couples feel as well as coping. I've written about my son's death although I haven't had it published (don't know where it could be published) but I've shared it. I've read books /articles about other people who've lost a child and it does help. I've also been quite public about the cause of my son's death (SUDEP - Sudden Unexpected Death in EPilepsy) & have done some things to raise awareness. None of the things were for attention.

Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry for your loss: no parent should have to lose a child but, as Meghan writes, it happens more often than we know because there is indeed a 'stigma' and awkwardness about dealing with death in general and miscarriage in particular. In this time when so many are dying, often needlessly, we can only be thankful that Meghan has chosen to remind us about the importance of connecting: 'are you okay' is a simple conversation starter.

 

[kathia_sophia]

I feel very sad for Meghan and Harry. It must have been (still is) a difficult time. My heart is with them. If their dream is to have a second child, then I wish them well and success for a future pregnancy.


As to why they did not announce the pregnancy. Perhaps, she didn't cross the 4th month "rule"? Most women (royal or not) wait until the fourth month to announce the pregnancy because the risk of miscarriage decreases.

 

[kathl29]

I’m not a big fan of Harry and Meghan but sad to hear this news. As someone who has had three miscarriages I would not want anyone to go through the same pain.

Nice to see her acknowledge Harry’s grief in her letter as the partner is often forgotten.

This is one of those occasions where I feel that if you don’t have something nice to say then maybe don’t say anything at all - some of the comments on social media have been awful.

 

[adjovie]

Here's some good reporting:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331580246521470976

And this (Piers Morgan actually held back today; shocking):

 

[AC21091968]

Apologies for being late to the discussion and my post may be considered off-topic.

Although not in the same scale as Meghan, when Annunziata Rees-Mogg (former Brexit Party MEP later Conservative Party MEP) announced that she was pregnant at 16 weeks, after miscarried triplets, there were some (not majority) snarky comments or even backhanded compliments on the Daily Mail in 2019. She is also the youngest sister of Jacob Rees-Mogg, the current Leader of the House of Commons and Conservative MP.

[........]

I think similar to Annunziata, since Harry and Meghan are considered to be financially wealthy and privilege in terms connections, some believed that Meghan should keep the miscarriage of such personal news to herself. I have sympathy to both couples and other couples who lost their children during pregnancy, which is terrible and awfully painful to the parents. I think opening up on the topic of miscarriage will continue to loose the stigma not just in Western countries, but also countries with very traditional/conservative cultures. To some extent, I kind of wish Meghan did not mention about George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, New Yorkers and South Africa interview, but just focus on her miscarriage.

 

[angieuk]

Very sad; and out of anyone's control.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...aise-Meghan-Markle-breaking-stigma-shame.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...han-Mails-SARAH-RAINEY-miscarried-summer.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8985249/Meghan-Markle-reveals-suffered-miscarriage.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...tpouring-love-Meghan-Markle-Prince-Harry.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...age-discusses-Meghan-Markles-tragic-loss.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...Tindall-spoke-suffering-two-miscarriages.html

 

[evolvingdoors]

Apologies for being late to the discussion and my post may be considered off-topic.

Although not in the same scale as Meghan, when Annunziata Rees-Mogg (former Brexit Party MEP later Conservative Party MEP) announced that she was pregnant at 16 weeks, after miscarried triplets, there were some (not majority) snarky comments or even backhanded compliments on the Daily Mail in 2019. She is also the youngest sister of Jacob Rees-Mogg, the current Leader of the House of Commons and Conservative MP.

[........]

I think similar to Annunziata, since Harry and Meghan are considered to be financially wealthy and privilege in terms connections, some believed that Meghan should keep the miscarriage of such personal news to herself. I have sympathy to both couples and other couples who lost their children during pregnancy, which is terrible and awfully painful to the parents. I think opening up on the topic of miscarriage will continue to loose the stigma not just in Western countries, but also countries with very traditional/conservative cultures. To some extent, I kind of wish Meghan did not mention about George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, New Yorkers and South Africa interview, but just focus on her miscarriage.

And this is where the criticism of the letter lays for some people (myself included) and why some of us are questioning the reason behind the letter publication, it is the addition of these other topics. When the other celebrities discussed their lost they usually stayed on topic to that specific loss and did not try to weave in (at times shoehorn) other issues.
There could have been so many other ways she could have approached this. And I think having the letter being looked over by someone to help her tighten it up, would have been a good idea.


I thought whether or not to share this, I am familiar with the pain a miscarriage can bring, there was a multiple miscarriages for a very close family member of mine, so I understanding wanting to share and find solace. (Though I disagree that there is a stigma to it, but this may be a cultural and generational difference?).

 

[carlota]

miscarriage is always a sad event, and i am glad she found courage to tell her story. meghan didn't have issues falling pregnant with her first, so hopefully they will have a better time after this rough patch adding another sibling to the family.

i do however have some issues with her piece.

the first is that a part of me continues to be puzzled by their 'need for privacy' when later one publishes a story about something so deeply personal. some people may say 'she's trying to break the taboos'... but there's a reason why this is not spoken out when it happens and that is that this is so deeply personal. just as with other trauma, such as abuse, rape, etc the victim usually doesn't feel like sharing this when it happens with the world just to have 'support'.

the second one is her need to bring up all the 'topics that tick the box' in this oped which should have been about the main topic she is addressing, miscarriage. it is almost as if she knows this will garner attention (such as addressing the south africa interview fiasco and saying 'few asked if i am okay' when you're touring one of the world's poorest countries, with serious social issues yet you live a privileged life. she keeps bringing this up and up again. also the topic of BLM).

I just don't think Meghan would ever suit the role. Can you imagine a fiercely independent, woke American woman like Meghan curtsying for the rest of her life to the Queen (or later Charles or William & Kate) and to other European and Asian monarchs on state visits? Mary Donaldson does it effortlessly as did Letizia when she was still Princess of Asturias, but, with Meghan, even though she did it in public several times, it always looked awkward.

what you're saying about meghan, one can say about letizia too. a previously republican, divorcee, rather liberal and ambitious lady herself... yet she adapted and blended into the role. efforlessly? maybe not, but clearly for her duty and the crown now come first, as they should, which one is yet to say about meghan. but i think you're spot on on your judgement of her not wanting a lifelong commitment to the BRF, and saw it as a way to build her brand. let's face it, we all had to google who meghan markle was when their romance was announced.

 

[Kataryn]

I completely agree with you. The style is bad, especially dramatic first part. The topic is unclear. I'm sympathetic and support being open about miscarriges, but leave it Sussexes to announce it in NY Times.

My guess is that a lot happened in 2020 that touched Meghan and Harry deeply and the miscarriage was just the most hurtful. The topic is unclear for you? For me it is about being ok even though such terrible things happened - to them and to you as in: you, the world. It may be an American thing (at least for the around 53 % of Americans who voted for Biden) but the inquery after your status of being ok ist actually very kind. You can open up if asked that way, but you don't have to.

And for Meghan, being biracial herself, the killings of black people by the police is a deeply disturbing thing and I don't think she feels ok when she thinks about that. She doesn't feel ok when she thinks about the management of the pandemic and how it badly affected so many people. The miscarriage was her very personal low in 2020 but there are other things to mention, things that could have gone easier on a lot of people if only we all responded in kindness and with the willingness to help.



So for me, the whole article was not about her miscarriage (as this is so very private) but it served as an opener to raise interest in her article and her basic wish: ask people if they are okay, and listen to them, help them if you can. I can understand why Meghan chose to talk about her worst experience in 2020 and not to stick to her privacy, why she chose the NYT to offer her opinion to and still can understand why she moved to the US with Harry to live quietly and as a private citizen. Because she is worth it for herself and she thinks you are worth to be asked honestly is you are ok and if not, to listen and to help. because the world would be a better place if we all lived like that! Even if terrible things happen.
The article touched me and I like the message.
And I'm sad when I think that Charles lost a new grandchild and the queen a new great-grandchild, too. For the Windsors are a family where blood lines count and family bonds are deeper than in most families, because they are the first "Family" of the UK realm and all lost a new member. So really sad!

 

[Denville]

A


I thought whether or not to share this, I am familiar with the pain a miscarriage can bring, there was a multiple miscarriages for a very close family member of mine, so I understanding wanting to share and find solace. (Though I disagree that there is a stigma to it, but this may be a cultural and generational difference?).

I dont think there's a stigma to it, in the western world, certainly not in the US...However it is sad for Meghan and harry. I think that she didn't have to talk about it, but she chose to do so.. and I hope she's recovered now and over the worst of it...

 

[Betsypaige]

It was reported in the news (I think SkyNews or BBC) that they informed the Royal family at the time it happened in July. If I can find the YouTube link, I'll post it…

Yes, I heard that tonight as well...thanks! I never really doubted it ...I just kind of wondered out loud. I’m thankful for Zoom in cases like this so Harry, Charles, etc..could see each other, but it’s not the same as being able to comfort him in person.

 

[evolvingdoors]

miscarriage is always a sad event, and i am glad she found courage to tell her story. meghan didn't have issues falling pregnant with her first, so hopefully they will have a better time after this rough patch adding another sibling to the family.

i do however have some issues with her piece.

the first is that a part of me continues to be puzzled by their 'need for privacy' when later one publishes a story about something so deeply personal. some people may say 'she's trying to break the taboos'... but there's a reason why this is not spoken out when it happens and that is that this is so deeply personal. just as with other trauma, such as abuse, rape, etc the victim usually doesn't feel like sharing this when it happens with the world just to have 'support'.

the second one is her need to bring up all the 'topics that tick the box' in this oped which should have been about the main topic she is addressing, miscarriage. it is almost as if she knows this will garner attention (such as addressing the south africa interview fiasco and saying 'few asked if i am okay' when you're touring one of the world's poorest countries, with serious social issues yet you live a privileged life. she keeps bringing this up and up again. also the topic of BLM).




what you're saying about meghan, one can say about letizia too. a previously republican, divorcee, rather liberal and ambitious lady herself... yet she adapted and blended into the role. efforlessly? maybe not, but clearly for her duty and the crown now come first, as they should, which one is yet to say about meghan. but i think you're spot on on your judgement of her not wanting a lifelong commitment to the BRF, and saw it as a way to build her brand. let's face it, we all had to google who meghan markle was when their romance was announced.

I didn't even know Harry had a girlfriend let alone who she was until.. I think right before the Canadian IG, which is when I started lurking here.

 

[Duchess of Wakanda]

I dont think there's a stigma to it, in the western world, certainly not in the US...However it is sad for Meghan and harry. I think that she didn't have to talk about it, but she chose to do so.. and I hope she's recovered now and over the worst of it...

Maybe not in your experience, but there is a stigma around it.

 

[ACO]

Maybe not in your experience, but there is a stigma around it.

Exactly. All you have to do is listen and read all the reactions to this piece by Meghan to recognize it. There is sadly quite the stigma but it has been nice seeing the various experts speaking out yesterday.

 

[Denville]

Exactly. All you have to do is listen and read all the reactions to this piece by Meghan to recognize it. There is sadly quite the stigma but it has been nice seeing the various experts speaking out yesterday.

I cant' see where anyones reaction has been that there's some stigma. People have just tended to say that while they sympathise, they wonder why she went into stuff about George Floyd or other issues.. [.....]

 

[TLLK]

Exactly. All you have to do is listen and read all the reactions to this piece by Meghan to recognize it. There is sadly quite the stigma but it has been nice seeing the various experts speaking out yesterday.

I respectfully disagree. I have yet to read a reaction on this site that is related to the familiar stigmas associated with pregnancy loss ie: speculation on the couple's marital state or their ability to have any future children. However I have read posts questioning the decision to incorporate references to the deaths of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor though on this site.



I do agree with those in the healthcare profession that the couple's decision to share the news of their miscarriage can be helpful to other women and couples that have experienced a similar situation.

 

[Duchess of Wakanda]

There is a stigma in western society surrounding miscarriage. Just because it’s not been seen on this website doesn’t mean it’s not there. A stigma doesn’t always mean people being uncaring or cruel to parents going through the loss. Sometimes it’s people telling you that the loss isn’t the same as loosing a “regular” child, or that you will get over it and have other kids. While (2 out of 3 of) these things might be technically true, parents who’ve suffered a miscarriage don’t want to hear those things because they aren’t helpful in the moment. They wanted THAT baby on THAT baby’s due date. Not another baby in the future.

Two - George Floyd and Breonna Taylor’s death were traumatic and painful for many people. When people who look like you and are killed for no other reason reason than they look like you, it will do something to your soul - and the fact that we were dealing with a soul crushing pandemic with the deceased into the 100,000s, a global recession, and (in this country) a divisive political situation made it ten times worse.

Sometimes, just because something doesn’t apply to you personally, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t apply to other people. I fount Meghan’s piece remarkably moving. She put in words what I’ve been asking myself and others “Are You Okay?” because really that’s all we can do for one another sometimes.

 

[Denville]

There is a stigma in western society surrounding miscarriage. Just because it’s not been seen on this website doesn’t mean it’s not there. A stigma doesn’t always mean people being uncaring or cruel to parents going through the loss. Sometimes it’s people telling you that the loss isn’t the same as loosing a “regular” child, or that you will get over it and have other kids. While (2 out of 3 of) these things might be technically true, parents who’ve suffered a miscarriage don’t want to hear those things because they aren’t helpful in the moment. They wanted THAT baby on THAT baby’s due date. Not another baby in the future.

T

A stigma means that its something shameful or embarrassing - that it is something that's not meant to be talked about... it doesn't apply to where people say clumsy things because they dont know what to say....

 

[Duchess of Wakanda]

A stigma means that its something shameful or embarrassing - that it is something that's not meant to be talked about... it doesn't apply to where people say clumsy things because they dont know what to say....

And the reasons above are why couples are shamed into not speaking up, especially the “Well you didn’t loose a real baby” and “it’s not the end of the world, you can have more”

But this is where I end this argument on my end - I’m not going to debate about someone else’s pain and tragedy anymore.

 

[TLLK]

Just because it’s not been seen on this website doesn’t mean it’s not there.

Yes Duchess of Wakanda I am aware that there are comments made on the Internet and not just this site. In that case I believe that it would be wise to follow the example set by the Duchess of Sussex who made it known in Oct. 2020 that she doesn't follow or read social media comments.


Meghan undoubtedly knew that her decision to share her letter via the NYT would bring a mixture of praise and criticism. I'm sure that they'll appreciate the support they receive. Also I believe that she and Prince Harry have the strength to handle any criticism and will simply ignore naysayers. If they believe that some of their critics have made relevant points regarding the contents of their letter, then they may choose to consider those.

 

[poppy7]

Yes Duchess of Wakanda I am aware that there are comments made on the Internet and not just this site. In that case I believe that it would be wise to follow the example set by the Duchess of Sussex who made it known in Oct. 2020 that she doesn't follow or read social media comments.


Meghan undoubtedly knew that her decision to share her letter via the NYT would bring a mixture of praise and criticism. I'm sure that they'll appreciate the support they receive. Also I believe that she and Prince Harry have the strength to handle any criticism and will simply ignore naysayers. If they believe that some of their critics have made relevant points regarding the contents of their letter, then they may choose to consider those.

I appauld anyone who is willing to make themselves vulnerable about their experiences in order for it to help people. I haven't read the article and any criticism at their choice of exposure is probably typical of what they do. I would however say though that I am not quite sure it is true to say she is trailblazing on this. Many women, I including Harry's aunt and cousin have been open about their experiences.and all deserve praise for bringing understanding to difficilt topics.

As for the rest. Could t be further from the truth. They pay far too much attention to these things.

 

[QueenMathilde]

So did they do anything for Thanksgiving that I missed? Served food or something?

 

[TLLK]

I believe that they would have celebrated Thanksgiving today with their favorite traditional foods. However I expect that they kept the party small due to Coronavirus restrictions.

 

[Betsypaige]

I'm certainly not surprised....

“[Prince] Charles has been supporting Harry and Meghan during their time of grief,” a source exclusively tells Us Weekly. “There is a great sadness around the royal family for Harry and Meghan.”

Buckingham Palace tells Us that the couple’s pregnancy loss is “a deeply personal matter.”

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrit...dness-for-meghan-and-harry-after-miscarriage/


There's also this:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/megha...riage-op-ed-in-the-new-york-times-with-royals

So did they do anything for Thanksgiving that I missed? Served food or something?

“They are going to have a quiet dinner at home and are looking forward to celebrating their first American Thanksgiving in the States as a family,” royal reporter Omid Scobie tweeted. “They plan to enjoy a homecooked meal with traditional Thanksgiving dishes, including recipes made with fresh vegetable from their garden.”

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrit...e-celebrating-thanksgiving-after-miscarriage/