Juan Valentín, Pablo, Miguel & Irene Urdangarín, News and Events 3: Jan. 2024 -


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Marengo

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Arms of Infanta Cristina​

Welcome to Juan Valentín, Pablo Nicolás, Miguel and Irene Urdangarín, News and Events, Part 3
Commencing January 30th, 2024 ​

The previous thread can be found here
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What a very worthwhile mission and bravo to Doña Irene :flowers:
 
Good to see she is following in her eldest brother's footsteps.
 
www.vanitatis.elconfidencial.com

Imágenes y detalles inéditos del viaje de la infanta Cristina e Irene Urdangarin a la India

La Infanta acompañó a su hija a Asia, donde vive ahora de cooperante, y le enseñó sus proyectos sobre el terreno en el llamado 'deep India'. Sus compañeros cuentan los detalles
www.vanitatis.elconfidencial.com www.vanitatis.elconfidencial.com

Irene with her mother in India. In some pictures she has the Borbon looks of Cristina (similar to Leonor) but in general I think she looks like Inaki, her father.

Especially here, spitting image of Inaki
 
The grandchildren of king Juan Carlos are considered Grandes of Spain, which is the highest honor in the ranks of nobility. But I always wonder why he didn't give each one personal title before he abdicated. His ancestor, Queen Isabela II entitled every child she had and then some besides the main title Infante/Infanta of Spain.
 
Toledo said:
The grandchildren of king Juan Carlos are considered Grandes of Spain, which is the highest honor in the ranks of nobility. But I always wonder why he didn't give each one personal title before he abdicated. His ancestor, Queen Isabela II entitled every child she had and then some besides the main title Infante/Infanta of Spain.
Click to expand...
He not did grant titles to children of either of his sisters and I never expected to see titles on any of his grandchildren either!
 
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An Ard Ri said:
He did grant titles to children of either of his sisters and I never expected to see titles on any of his grandchildren either!
Click to expand...
I'm checking online doing searches in Spanish to find why and here's the translated Wiki Spain page:
Títulos nobiliarios otorgados por Juan Carlos I - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

"As for the rank of the title, there is no guideline either, and they are usually granted at the mercy of the king, although the duchies and grandeurs of Spain have been reserved – which the former implicitly carry – for those cases closest to the king or as a special recognition."

"...The children of the Infantes and Infantas of Spain from the moment of their birth have the title and treatment of Grandees of Spain and, in the case of both the Infantes and Infantas and their children, they possess this title for life...This would not be the case with hereditary titles in sensu stricto, but with a position that grants them a title and treatment.
 
Toledo said:
I'm checking online doing searches in Spanish to find why and here's the translated Wiki Spain page:
Títulos nobiliarios otorgados por Juan Carlos I - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

"As for the rank of the title, there is no guideline either, and they are usually granted at the mercy of the king, although the duchies and grandeurs of Spain have been reserved – which the former implicitly carry – for those cases closest to the king or as a special recognition."

"...The children of the Infantes and Infantas of Spain from the moment of their birth have the title and treatment of Grandees of Spain and, in the case of both the Infantes and Infantas and their children, they possess this title for life...This would not be the case with hereditary titles in sensu stricto, but with a position that grants them a title and treatment.
Click to expand...
They also have the courtesy style of His or Her Excellency Don/Doña which is the equivalent to Lord/Lady.
 
I had to correct ab error above, I just realized after reading the bio on Queen Isabel II, she lost most of her children at early ages, from stillborn to 3 weeks of age. When I thought about her giving titles away, I realized it was to members of her court, especially the biological fathers of her 12 children.
 
An Ard Ri said:
He did grant titles to children of either of his sisters and I never expected to see titles on any of his grandchildren either!
Click to expand...
You mean he did not grant titles to them
 
Toledo said:
I had to correct ab error above, I just realized after reading the bio on Queen Isabel II, she lost most of her children at early ages, from stillborn to 3 weeks of age. When I thought about her giving titles away, I realized it was to members of her court, especially the biological fathers of her 12 children.
Click to expand...

Yes, Queen Isabel II's children were automatically Infantas and Infantes at birth, as they were born to a reigning monarch.

In the Spanish system, the highest-ranking title is used, and a royal title such as Infanta or Infante outranks a title of nobility such as Duchess or Duke. Thus, there would have been no purpose to gifting titles of nobility to her children, since they would not be expected to use them.

Toledo said:
I'm checking online doing searches in Spanish to find why and here's the translated Wiki Spain page:
Títulos nobiliarios otorgados por Juan Carlos I - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

"As for the rank of the title, there is no guideline either, and they are usually granted at the mercy of the king, although the duchies and grandeurs of Spain have been reserved – which the former implicitly carry – for those cases closest to the king or as a special recognition."

"...The children of the Infantes and Infantas of Spain from the moment of their birth have the title and treatment of Grandees of Spain and, in the case of both the Infantes and Infantas and their children, they possess this title for life...This would not be the case with hereditary titles in sensu stricto, but with a position that grants them a title and treatment.
Click to expand...

The regulation that children of Infantas and Infantes (not the Infantes and Infantes themselves) are limited to being "only" Grandees of Spain was of course introduced by King Juan Carlos I in his 1987 decree. Prior to this, children of Infantas and Infantes, if they were Spanish subjects and from "equal" marriages, were routinely created Infantas and Infantes. (But the marriages of Elena, Cristina and Felipe to non-royals would have been deemed "unequal" under the old laws, just as their aunts' marriages were treated as "unequal".)

 
Pablo Urdangarín on his return to Barcelona.
www.europapress.es

Pablo Urdangarín se pronuncia: Del ingreso de la Reina Sofía a la recién estrenada libertad de su padre

Centrado en su carrera deportiva, hay un motivo de peso para que Pablo Urdangarín no se haya desplazado...
www.europapress.es www.europapress.es

More photos of Irene Urdangarín in Cambodia.
www.hola.com

Las imágenes no vistas de Irene Urdangarin en Camboya

La benjamina de los Urdangarin se encuentra en el país asiático desde hace 3 meses, donde está viviendo una experiencia muy enriquecedora como voluntaria
www.hola.com www.hola.com
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Infanta Cristina has never had any personal arms of her own. Drawings of invented arms have found their way onto Wikipedia, but they have no basis in reality. Whenever coats of arms have been required for Infantas Elena and Cristina, the arms of the royal family have been used (as can be seen in photographs of older royal events).
Click to expand...
Yes, that is correct. The only members of the Spanish royal family who have an official coat of arms are King Felipe VI, the Princess of Asturias, and King Juan Carlos.

I would realy like Queen Letizia to be given a personal coat of arms too, but that has not happened so far. When needed, she uses her husband's arms as seen recently when she was inducted into the Danish Order of the Elephant.
 
Irene seems to be dating Juan Urquijo (whose sister Teresa recently married the Mayor of Madrid) since fall. They've known each other since childhood, he's 7 years older than her and a agronomist engineer.

www.hola.com

Irene Urdangarin y Juan Urquijo, juntos e ilusionados

La hija de la infanta Cristina y el hermano de Teresa Urquijo, comenzaron a salir en otoño
www.hola.com www.hola.com
 
At that age, 7 years is a considerable age difference; one fresh out of high school and the other well after college. However, his sister married someone almost twice her age...
 
crm2317 said:
The pair are also distantly related being descendants of Alfonso XII.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Juan Urquijo is a member of one of the numerous morganatic cadet branches of the royal dynasty, and they are fourth cousins through their royal lineage:

King Alfonso XII of Spain - María de las Mercedes, Princess of Asturias - Infante Alfonso of Spain - Princess Teresa of Bourbon - Beatriz of Bourbon-Two Sicilies - Juan Urquijo

King Alfonso XII of Spain - King Alfonso XIII of Spain - Juan, Count of Barcelona - King Juan Carlos I of Spain - Infanta Cristina of Spain - Irene Urdangarin
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Indeed, Juan Urquijo is a member of one of the numerous morganatic cadet branches of the royal dynasty, and they are fourth cousins through their royal lineage:

King Alfonso XII of Spain - María de las Mercedes, Princess of Asturias - Infante Alfonso of Spain - Princess Teresa of Bourbon - Beatriz of Bourbon-Two Sicilies - Juan Urquijo

King Alfonso XII of Spain - King Alfonso XIII of Spain - Juan, Count of Barcelona - King Juan Carlos I of Spain - Infanta Cristina of Spain - Irene Urdangarin
Click to expand...
He is not a descendant from a morganatic branch, but from a female branch
 
Stefan said:
He is not a descendant from a morganatic branch, but from a female branch
Click to expand...

Dynastic rights such as royal titles and inheritance of the throne have been transmissible through both females and males for most of Spanish royal history. However, before the Pragmatic Sanction of 1776 was superseded by the current Constitution (at least, that seems to be the most common view), "unequal" marriages between a royal and a non-royal, like that of Juan's grandparents, were treated as morganatic.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Dynastic rights such as royal titles and inheritance of the throne have been transmissible through both females and males for most of Spanish royal history. However, before the Pragmatic Sanction of 1776 was superseded by the current Constitution (at least, that seems to be the most common view), "unequal" marriages between a royal and a non-royal, like that of Juan's grandparents, were treated as morganatic.
Click to expand...
But then his grandmother was perhaps a spanish dynast, but she did not have any spanish Titles. Only her parents and later her brother had them
 
Stefan said:
But then his grandmother was perhaps a spanish dynast, but she did not have any spanish Titles. Only her parents and later her brother had them
Click to expand...

Juan's grandmother Princess Teresa was certainly a Spanish dynast in the eyes of Alfonso XIII seeing as he deemed her parents' marriage to be dynastic (by convention, he would not have created Juan's great-grandmother Alice an Infanta by grace if he had not considered the marriage to be such).

Presumably, Teresa and her siblings were granted the same Spanish form of address and rank as other dynastic children of Infantes and Infantas who were not themselves Infantes and Infantas:

 
Tatiana Maria said:
Juan's grandmother Princess Teresa was certainly a Spanish dynast in the eyes of Alfonso XIII seeing as he deemed her parents' marriage to be dynastic (by convention, he would not have created Juan's great-grandmother Alice an Infanta by grace if he had not considered the marriage to be such).

Presumably, Teresa and her siblings were granted the same Spanish form of address and rank as other dynastic children of Infantes and Infantas who were not themselves Infantes and Infantas:

Click to expand...
There is no Royal Decree granting them any titles in this link.
 
It was impossible for Alfonso XIII to issue official royal decrees concerning the family because, by the time of the former Infante Alfonso's marriage and the birth of his children (Teresa being his firstborn), Spain had become a republic and the former King Alfonso XIII was exiled to Italy.

However, the linked segment of the article refers to the form of address (Royal Highness) and rank (equivalent to those of Infantes) which Alfonso XIII accorded to members of the family who were in identical or similar positions while he was still a reigning sovereign, and those Royal Decrees are quoted further down.
 
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