Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[Mirabel]

I also feel sorry for Doria who, afaik, has been a constant in their lives.

Doria seems quite close to Meghan and Harry since they met, but why did Meghan grow up living with her father instead?

(I've always wondered about that, although I don't mean to cast aspersions...perhaps there was a reason I'm not aware of.)

 

[Anna1519]

It may be that Doria doesn’t particularly like her name and doesn’t want a relative to be given it. I loved my mother but she hated her name and so I never gave it, even as a middle name, to either of my two daughters.

Right. I've seen a lot of commentary around Doria today and quite frankly, it seems less like genuine sympathy than it is an excuse to beat Harry and Meghan over the head yet again. Given that Doria is already a strong presence in their lives, perhaps Harry and Meghan wished to use Lili's names to pay tribute to two women they love who the children will not see often (or at all, in Diana's case). There doesn't need to be a malicious motive behind every choice that Harry and Meghan make.

 

[kathia_sophia]

Congratulations to the Sussexes on the birth of their daughter Lili.


I really like the name Lili (though I prefer the spelling Lily), because it is so sweet and cute. And goes well with Archie too. However...Lilibet. Well, I don't have anything against it, and if they want to honor the Queen then be it, but I dislike the name itself, and I find it weird to give a baby a nickname of a nickname. Sounds kinda odd to me.


People are giving Felipe as the example for people outside the family who calls the Queen by Lilibet. But Felipe is an exception, I must say. He even calls Queen Margrethe as "Aunt Daisy" (he was the only one who called Aunt Daisy on her b-day congratulations). I think it is his personality.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Neither being foreign born, nor a member of a foreign royal family is a disqualification for being in the line of succession, not in 1859 nor at present. Members of the Norwegian, Danish, Greek and other foreign royals are in the line of succession. Now being Catholic...

You're quite right that the UK has never made foreign birth or family membership a disqualification for succession to the Crown, however, unless they have converted, the Greek ex-royal family are disqualified for not belonging to the Protestant faith. Under the Act of Settlement (1700), succession to the British Crown is reserved for those heirs of the body of Princess Sophia, Electress and Dowager Duchess of Hanover, who are Protestants.

the Crown and Regall Government of the said Kingdoms of England France and Ireland and of the Dominions thereunto belonging with the Royall State and Dignity of the said Realms and all Honours Stiles Titles Regalities Prerogatives Powers Jurisdictions and Authorities to the same belonging and appertaining shall be remain and continue to the said most Excellent Princess Sophia and the Heirs of Her Body being Protestants​

 

[Heavs]

It may be that Doria doesn’t particularly like her name and doesn’t want a relative to be given it. I loved my mother but she hated her name and so I never gave it, even as a middle name, to either of my two daughters.

It's possible that she asked them not to. Although they could have gone further back up the Ragland family tree like Eugenie and Jack did with August and Hawke.

It's noticeable that she's missing because of the events of the last few months. They chose two go with two very powerful white women and not celebrate Meghan's maternal heritage, whilst calling the UK, the firm and family racist. And most likely without asking if Lilibet was okay from the one they're "honoring".

Obviously they can name their baby what they please and the absence of Doria doesn't really matter in the end, but I understand why some are questioning it (and not just H&M critics either). It wouldn't have been so noticeable if they'd gone say Alice Diana.

 

[LaBettie]

Does the court ever call Harry Henry?

On H&M’s engagement announcement, both Henry and Harry were used. On the Queen’s consent, it was Henry C.A.D. and Rachel Meghan. On H&M’s wedding invite it was Henry and Meghan. On Archie’s birth certificate it was Henry C.A.D. and Rachel Meghan.

So Harry knows that Henry has to be used sometimes.

The Royal Family Twitter said Lilibet Diana with no mention of Lili. If her full name is used, it would be Lilibet Diana and not Lili Diana or Lilibet “Lili” Diana.

 

[Curbside]

Wow so much vitriol about them honoring their grandmother by naming their daughter her unusual nickname. I even saw someone say that the child will be mocked for the old-fashioned name.

I just named my duaghter after my grandmother Andoria but we will call her Anne which was is my grandmothers nickname which I’ve never called her obviously but she was incredibly honored by it.

The H&M disdained has is...odd. Let’s not talk horrible about a child’s name, folks.

My dad was named Charlie, after his uncle Charles. My sister named her son Charlie and I named my daughter Charlotte. Same principle with Elizabeth and Lilibet.

 

[ACO]

Right. I've seen a lot of commentary around Doria today and quite frankly, it seems less like genuine sympathy than it is an excuse to beat Harry and Meghan over the head yet again. Given that Doria is already a strong presence in their lives, perhaps Harry and Meghan wished to use Lili's names to pay tribute to two women they love who the children will not see often (or at all, in Diana's case). There doesn't need to be a malicious motive behind every choice that Harry and Meghan make.

Also how do they know Doria even wanted it? Not everyone wants that. This faux concern is fascinating. Doria is actually the one grandparent that’s a constant in their lives. I think she knows better than some projecting emotions on her.

 

[RJC]

It may be that Doria doesn’t particularly like her name and doesn’t want a relative to be given it. I loved my mother but she hated her name and so I never gave it, even as a middle name, to either of my two daughters.

True. My mother as well and I used her second name for my eldest daughter's middle name. My daughter used my mothers firstname for her daughter's middle name though which was a thrill.

 

[Curryong]

Doria seems quite close to Meghan and Harry since they met, but why did Meghan grow up living with her father instead?

(I've always wondered about that, although I don't mean to cast aspersions...perhaps there was a reason I'm not aware of.)

Meghan didn’t grow up living solely with her father. She lived with both of her parents parents at different times as many children of divorced parents do. In the article below are photos and descriptions of two of the apartments Meghan lived in with Doria as she was growing up.


https://www.hellomagazine.com/homes...n-markle-childhood-home-doria-ragland-inside/

 

[CyrilVladisla]

It is lovely that the little girl has Diana for her middle name. The D could also signify a representation of Doria.

 

[ladongas]

Wow so much vitriol about them honoring their grandmother by naming their daughter her unusual nickname. I even saw someone say that the child will be mocked for the old-fashioned name.

I just named my duaghter after my grandmother Andoria but we will call her Anne which was is my grandmothers nickname which I’ve never called her obviously but she was incredibly honored by it.

The H&M disdained has is...odd. Let’s not talk horrible about a child’s name, folks.

At last, the voice of reason. Thank you.

 

[Queen Claude]

You're quite right that the UK has never made foreign birth or family membership a disqualification for succession to the Crown, however, unless they have converted, the Greek ex-royal family are disqualified for not belonging to the Protestant faith. Under the Act of Settlement (1700), succession to the British Crown is reserved for those heirs of the body of Princess Sophia, Electress and Dowager Duchess of Hanover, who are Protestants.

the Crown and Regall Government of the said Kingdoms of England France and Ireland and of the Dominions thereunto belonging with the Royall State and Dignity of the said Realms and all Honours Stiles Titles Regalities Prerogatives Powers Jurisdictions and Authorities to the same belonging and appertaining shall be remain and continue to the said most Excellent Princess Sophia and the Heirs of Her Body being Protestants​

OK, I knew for sure that Catholics are excluded. I read more than once that the Greek royals were in the line of succession but they were not official accounts.

 

[Alisa]

I doubt if Diana called her Aunt Lilibet as an adult, I think she became more formal and then when married to Charles called her "mama"...

Or not. Adults have called the Queen "Aunt Lilibeth" in the past. Just recently the King of Spain addressed the Queen as "Aunt Lilibeth " when writing a letter of condolences on the death of Philip.

 

[Emme]

There are various alternatives to Elizabeth - Isabel or Isabella, or the Scottish Elspeth, and a lot of people now use Beth, Libby, Lizzie, Betty, Bessie or Eliza as names on their own.


Lilibet's always been unique to the Queen - one of those childhood nicknames which stuck, because she couldn't pronounce her own name properly when she was a baby learning to speak. I don't think even the Kents and the Gloucesters use it: as far as I know, Prince Philip was the last person who called her Lilibet.

Diana was quoted (NY Times article 30 July 1981) as calling HM “Aunt Lilibet” since she (Diana) was a little girl growing up in Park House on the Sandringham estate.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/30/world/the-royal-newlyweds-she-charms-with-an-easy-grace.html

My daughter is Elisabeth (with an “S”). Sometimes I call her Lissy. Her grandfather called her Lily (and she would only allow him to use that name - it was their thing), classmates call her Lizzy, but mostly she’s Elisabeth. So many variations!

 

[Alisa]

On the flip side, there's no reason why Henry and Meghan couldn't have honoured The Queen by naming the girl Lili as a given name, instead of Lilibet.

On the flip side, the couple's detractors would make it clear that the name Lili is not honoring the Queen as she is known as "Lilibeth" and not "Lili"

 

[moby]

Congratulations to the Sussexes. May the new birth bring healing to them and be a catalyst for reconciliation with Harry’s birth family.

My first reaction when finding out the name was to cringe. I find the choices strange, and I agree with those who think it’s laying it on thick, highlighting their royal connection—much needed now for their brand than when Archie was born.

Lili is an adorable name though. Lilibet not so much. I do wish they also paid tribute to Doria, from the side of the family they didn’t spend the whole year bashing.

 

[ACO]

There is also a Lillie in the Ragland side. Doria’s aunt.

 

[suztav]

God bless the baby with a healthy life and a bit more sense of reality than her parents.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

OK, I knew for sure that Catholics are excluded. I read more than once that the Greek royals were in the line of succession but they were not official accounts.

They would be in the line of succession if they have converted to Protestantism. I am not aware that they have, but I do not closely follow the family.

There is no serious dispute among the authorities that the restriction to "the Heirs of Her Body being Protestants" in the Act of Settlement remains in effect. Further details on the requirement are available in Parliament's research briefing "The Act of Settlement and the Protestant Succession".

[...] the Act of Settlement was passed, devolving the Protestant succession after Queen Anne (assuming no heir) on Princess Sophia the Electress of Hanover and her heirs, who are Protestants.

[...] section 3 of the Act of Settlement which requires active participation in the Church of England by the monarch: [...] This means, for instance, that a Methodist, Congregationalist, Church of Scotland, or Baptist member can take Anglican communion, though a Unitarian (who would reject the concept of the Trinity) and Quakers (who do not subscribe to the concept of the Lord’s Supper) could not. Hence in the strict sense of the wording of the Act of Settlement, members of most Protestant churches would not now be excluded. Members of Protestant denominations outside the Church of England do not generally object as a matter of faith to the established status of the Church of England and could thus subscribe to the requirements of the Coronation Oath Act 1688. Such a person could therefore “join in communion”, as the words of the statute decree.​

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

Congrats to the Sussexes! I'm not overly fond of the name "Lilibet", but I can understand the meaning behind it. I'm overjoyed that Lili, Archie, Meghan and Harry are safe, healthy and enjoying the new bundle of life.

 

[Emme]

Yes, the 90s are so-named because of Prince Harry, but the name would probably have gone back out by now if it weren't for Harry Kane, And Harry Styles from One Direction . The story about Prince Harry was that Diana didn't like the name Henry, so the compromise was that Henry would be his official name but that he'd be known as Harry.


I think the Queen suggested Beatrice. And then maybe they thought the name Eugenie went well with Beatrice, as it was the name of the first Beatrice's daughter ... although the previous Eugenie was known as Ena.

Ah, for some reason I thought Ena was a nickname for Victoria’s daughter Helena.

 

[Curryong]

No, Helena’s nickname was Lenchen. Beatrice, Ena’s mother, was Queen Victoria’s youngest child. Her daughter Victoria Eugenie (after the Empress Eugenie) became Ena, later Queen of Spain.

 

[caethi]

Congratulations to the Sussexes. May the new birth bring healing to them and be a catalyst for reconciliation with Harry’s birth family.

My first reaction when finding out the name was to cringe. I find the choices strange, and I agree with those who think it’s laying it on thick, highlighting their royal connection—much needed now for their brand than when Archie was born.

Lili is an adorable name though. Lilibet not so much.

I wish the Sussexes health and happiness. I also cringed when I heard the name "Lilibet." We can never know what the Queen thinks of this, and she loves her grandson and his family. The name, however, clearly emphasizes their link to the monarchy. I can hear them now, however: "We wanted to honour the Queen, not as the Queen, but as Harry's beloved grandmother." Of course they have a right to name their child anything they wish. Perhaps they truly lack self-awareness, and didn't realize how some might react to the name. The fact that they chose to emphasize the fact that they are close to the Queen doesn't have to be a cynical ploy. Given their behaviour to date, however, I tend to believe that they were fully aware of the ramifications of the name, but that is something else we will never know.One thing is clear, however; they appear to have no idea what it truly means to "honour" the Queen.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Ok, I posted this on 6-2. I was really thinking “Lily”.....

I agree! And since Archie has two names, the baby girl will also have two names as well - no more. I cannot see them naming her after anyone in either family except Diana . I read somewhere that once upon a time Harry was somewhere where he met a “Lily” and he liked the name and asked how it was spelled. This may appeal to Meghan as her dad (before he became persona non grata ) called her “Flower” as a child, did he not?

 

[Emme]

No, Helena’s nickname was Lenchen. Beatrice, Ena’s mother, was Queen Victoria’s youngest child. Her daughter Victoria Eugenie (after the Empress Eugenie) became Ena, later Queen of Spain.

I get all of those Victoria children and grandchildren mixed up!

 

[Curryong]

I get all of those Victoria children and grandchildren mixed up!

No wonder, there are dozens of them!

 

[Kataryn]

I'd say more a way of "proving" how intimate they are with the queen (In spite of her apparent shortcomings as a parent). Like they told how she got Archie a waffle iron and that Philip cuts off calls by closing the computer.. Its all to say that they are intimate with the RF....

Well, they are!

 

[Emme]

Much discussion here of Doria, and her being honored in the choice of name.

I am Jewish, and we name children in honor of a relative who has passed. Interestingly, oftentimes the baby’s name will just have the first initial (which helps Moishe become Mark). My youngest has the exact name of his great great grandfather, it’s become a very trendy name again. My other children honor past relatives with first initial only.

So, perhaps the “D” in Diana honors both Doria and Diana - both grandmothers with one name.

 

[Sandy345]

I think the child will be called Lily not Lilibet by her parents and brother and also in the media. So I don't think it is an issue that the full name is Lilibet. Her cousins have unusual names like Isla and Savannah.