Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill & Family, General News Part 3: Sept 2017 -

[Mbruno]

I wonder if we hadn't had the pandemic, Leonore would have gone to school in Sweden?

No, that ship sailed a long time ago and the King's decision in 2019 to remove the HRH from Madeleine's children, thereby also removing (in the Court's interpretation) their legal obligation to be raised in Sweden, was pretty much the nail in the coffin.

I suppose Madeleine speaks Swedish to her children at home and they will probably continue to go to Sweden in the summer (when the public health emergency is over), at least until they are 18 or so, but, otherwise, I think the children will be raised as Americans and will self-identify as such too.

Not as big a deal as Harry and Archie's case though as Madeleine was not expected to remain a full-time working royal after she married Chris, neither were her children. At least they have now made a clean break with royal duty without any ambiguity after some confusion in the early years when Madeleine still showed up in Sweden from time to time to attend some official events and the Court was still vague about the possibility of then only Leonore and Nicolas going to school in Sweden.

Maybe Madeleine would personally have liked to move back to Sweden, but she caved in , I think, to Chris, who never had any intention to do so and, apparently, was not very comfortable with the time he spent at the Royal Mews apartment.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Not as big a deal as Harry and Archie's case though as Madeleine was not expected to remain a full-time working royal after she married Chris, neither were her children.

Perhaps not full-time, but the parliamentary inquiry and the King's decision in 2019 were both reactions to public anxiety about the future number of adult members of the Royal House, and the reason for that anxiety was the settled general rule of adult members of the Royal House being funded by the state, in return for which they are expected to carry out official events.

No, their move to Miami is by all accounts final. The O'Neill kids' education was probably one of the reasons why the King made his decision regarding the status of Carl Philip & Madeleine's children public when he did.

Aren't the children Bernadotte O'Neills? (Bernadotte was used in Prince Nicolas's birth certificate and Bernadotte O'Neill in their passports.)

 

[acdc1]

No, that ship sailed a long time ago and the King's decision in 2019 to remove the HRH from Madeleine's children, thereby also removing (in the Court's interpretation) their legal obligation to be raised in Sweden, was pretty much the nail in the coffin.

I suppose Madeleine speaks Swedish to her children at home and they will probably continue to go to Sweden in the summer (when the public health emergency is over), at least until they are 18 or so, but, otherwise, I think the children will be raised as Americans and will self-identify as such too.

Not as big a deal as Harry and Archie's case though as Madeleine was not expected to remain a full-time working royal after she married Chris, neither were her children. At least they have now made a clean break with royal duty without any ambiguity after some confusion in the early years when Madeleine still showed up in Sweden from time to time to attend some official events and the Court was still vague about the possibility of then only Leonore and Nicolas going to school in Sweden.

Maybe Madeleine would personally have liked to move back to Sweden, but she caved in , I think, to Chris, who never had any intention to do so and, apparently, was not very comfortable with the time he spent at the Royal Mews apartment.

I remember 4 or 5 years ago the couple getting a lot of criticism because their status was so ambiguous. Madeleine was still flying in for royal events from time to time and the children were still HRHs and full members of the royal house so were expected to go to school and be primarily raised in Sweden, and I think that Leonore and maybe Nicolas attended a Swedish preschool for a while, but at the same time it was pretty clear from the beginning that Chris never had any intention of living in Sweden on an extended or permanent basis. They were also all over the place for a while- New York, London, Florida, and spending bits and pieces of time in Sweden in between all the moves. Things have seemed to settle down in recent years now that they have permanently settled in Florida and the HRHs have been removed. Like you, I’m guessing that while Madeleine probably speaks Swedish to them and they will be involved in the Swedish community in Florida, in addition to spending summers there when they can, the children will probably primarily identify as American.

I’ve also always gotten the impression that Madeleine would probably have loved to live in Sweden and raise her children there, but that it was Chris’s desire to live in the US that kept them from it. I had also heard that he wasn’t particularly happy the short periods they did live in Sweden, but from what they’ve posted on social media they seem happy living in Florida. There are certainly worse places to live than South Florida (I have family in the area and have spent extensive time in the Miami area).

 

[gerry]

I remember 4 or 5 years ago the couple getting a lot of criticism because their status was so ambiguous. Madeleine was still flying in for royal events from time to time and the children were still HRHs and full members of the royal house so were expected to go to school and be primarily raised in Sweden, and I think that Leonore and maybe Nicolas attended a Swedish preschool for a while, but at the same time it was pretty clear from the beginning that Chris never had any intention of living in Sweden on an extended or permanent basis. They were also all over the place for a while- New York, London, Florida, and spending bits and pieces of time in Sweden in between all the moves. Things have seemed to settle down in recent years now that they have permanently settled in Florida and the HRHs have been removed. Like you, I’m guessing that while Madeleine probably speaks Swedish to them and they will be involved in the Swedish community in Florida, in addition to spending summers there when they can, the children will probably primarily identify as American.

I’ve also always gotten the impression that Madeleine would probably have loved to live in Sweden and raise her children there, but that it was Chris’s desire to live in the US that kept them from it. I had also heard that he wasn’t particularly happy the short periods they did live in Sweden, but from what they’ve posted on social media they seem happy living in Florida. There are certainly worse places to live than South Florida (I have family in the area and have spent extensive time in the Miami area).

I forget (not that I followed this closely) but were the children of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill not also born in the United States, which makes them de jure American citizens in any case?

 

[Prinsara]

I forget (not that I followed this closely) but were the children of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill not also born in the United States, which makes them de jure American citizens in any case?

They are children of an American parent (like Archie) which jus sanguinis makes them Americans, regardless.

 

[JR76]

I forget (not that I followed this closely) but were the children of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill not also born in the United States, which makes them de jure American citizens in any case?

Princess Leonore was born in New York while Prince Nicolas and Princess Adrienne were born in Danderyd outside of Stockholm

 

[Mbruno]

I forget (not that I followed this closely) but were the children of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill not also born in the United States, which makes them de jure American citizens in any case?

Leonore is the only one who was born in the US (in New York City to be more precise). Nicolas and Adrienne were born in Sweden, but they are also American citizens through their father.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

No, their move to Miami is by all accounts final. The O'Neill kids' education was probably one of the reasons why the King made his decision regarding the status of Carl Philip & Madeleine's children public when he did.

Thanks, I hadn't realised it was a final move.

 

[LadyFinn]

Margareta Thorgren confirmed that there is no trip home to Sweden planned for the foreseeable future.
- They live in Florida and even there the autumn begins with schooling and other things.
Will they come to Sweden in the near future?
- I don't have any information about that. But they have not been home during the summer and there is no return trip planned for them in the next few weeks.
Chris O'Neill's best friend is getting married soon, will he and Princess Madeleine go to Sweden to attend the wedding?
- Wedding is a private event and the Swedish court doesn't comment that.
Hovets sorgliga besked om Madeleine _ Svensk Dam

 

[LadyFinn]

Andrea Brodin and Cedric Notz met and fell in love at the wedding of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill.
But now that it's their turn to say yes to each other, Madde and Chris will not be there.
Now Crown Princess Victoria's close friend, interior designer Andrea Brodin, 43, is marrying entrepreneur Cedric Notz, 45.
The couple met in 2013 at the grand wedding between Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill.
Chris O'Neill's choice of best man fell on Cedric Notz, and by the court he was described as a close childhood friend. Chris O'Neill and Cedric Notz were also colleagues at hedge fund Noster Capital.
Andrea Brodin and Cedric Notz became a couple, and he chose to leave Switzerland to live in Sweden with his new love and her children Diana, 13, and Ivar, 11, from her marriage to Niclas Engsäll. Today the couple lives in a house on Lidingö and has a daughter together, Isabella, 3.
But when it's time for Andrea Brodin and Cedric Notz to step on the altar, it's without Chris O'Neill and Madeleine.
- No, Princess Madeleine and her family will not come to Sweden, says Margareta Thorgren.
The family lives in Florida, and has not been able to come to Sweden at all this summer due to the covid-19 pandemic.
- This year it is special circumstances that make you look ahead, hopefully it will look different next summer. Princess Madeleine relates to the American restrictions, Margareta Thorgren said recently.
Chris O'Neill och prinsessan Madeleine missar vännens bröllop

 

[LadyFinn]

Chris O'Neill caused several scandals through his previous Instagram account which he shut down.
Now Allt om kungligt can reveal that Princess Madeleine's husband is back on social media. Under the profile name "Endless Summerboy", he now offers photos from his private life in Florida.
Chris O'Neill is a private man who shuns attention and tries to keep a very low profile. In other words, he does not like to show himself to the Swedish people if he absolutely does not have to.
A few months ago, he even disappeared from Instagram, despite that the account "Chrisoneill101" was private and thus only available to the absolute inner circle.
But now Allt om kungligt can reveal that Chris O'Neill is back on Instagram - this time under the somewhat fascinating name "endlesssummerboy".
However, he is secretive and does not even have a picture of itself, the account is instead decorated by a cartoon person with a surfboard and with the text "Florida Surfn Endless Summer".
The profile picture is a vintage sticker for Florida as a state and can be found on a number of different websites. According to information to Allt om kungligt, Chris O'Neill uses the name "Endless Summerboy" in various situations and it has also become a bit of his nickname among close friends.
The Instagram account is private and thus closed to the public. Chris O'Neill has 88 followers at the time of writing, he follows 134 accounts and has made 79 posts.
How long he can be private remains to be seen, photos and updates from the previous account were leaked to the press.
Chris okända konto läckt – hemliga smeknamnet avslöjat - Allt om kungligt

 

[LadyFinn]

The truth behind Chris O'Neill's company - the debt
Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill live a privileged life in one of Florida's most bourgeois areas, where they recently bought a villa for $ 30 million.
Chris O'Neill chose not to take the title of prince to continue his financial career, and after the wedding he started his own company Wilton Payments.
But the latest reports show that the company is making a loss and has not been a source of income for Chris O'Neill.
Princess Madeleine's husband Chris O'Neill surprised many Swedes when he chose a continued financial career over a princely title.
In his biography on the royal family's website, Chris O'Neill's CV is lined up. An MBA from Columbia Business School is described as the start of a successful career as a financial analyst.
But what Chris O'Neill has done since he left his job as head of research at the hedge fund company Noster Capital in 2013 is not mentioned at all by the Royal Family.
Chris O'Neill himself has said in interviews that he has changed tracks and stopped working with private customers, in order to instead work with electronic payment solutions for larger companies.
In 2013, the princess husband started its company Wilton Payments Ltd, which has just this business idea.
The company is registered with both Chris O'Neill and brother-in-law John d'Abo as shareholders. Chris O'Neill owns only 42.5 percent, but is the one who controls the company and represents the company's American operations.
Expressen has previously reported how the business has been at a loss for several years.
The latest submission submitted by Chris O'Neill's company to the British equivalent of the Swedish Companies Registration Office states that Wilton Payments does not need to prepare a complete annual report, due to the fact that it is such a small company.
The figures that still exist show how the company's assets have decreased sharply from 2018 to 2019 - but also the company's liabilities have decreased, by the equivalent of SEK 1.5 million to just over SEK 3.3 million.
A larger loss may be due to investments made that will hopefully bear fruit in the future. But one thing is for sure - Wilton Payments has, according to the latest accounts, not been a source of income for Chris O'Neill.
According to the Royal court, Chris O'Neill has also independently invested in several startup companies. But which companies they are, or in which sectors they are located, is not stated.
Sanningen bakom Chris O'Neills bolag – skulden
Translation

 

[KellyAtLast]

I wish the press would leave this man alone.

 

[Mbruno]

The truth behind Chris O'Neill's company - the debt
Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill live a privileged life in one of Florida's most bourgeois areas, where they recently bought a villa for $ 30 million.
Chris O'Neill chose not to take the title of prince to continue his financial career, and after the wedding he started his own company Wilton Payments.
But the latest reports show that the company is making a loss and has not been a source of income for Chris O'Neill.
Princess Madeleine's husband Chris O'Neill surprised many Swedes when he chose a continued financial career over a princely title.
In his biography on the royal family's website, Chris O'Neill's CV is lined up. An MBA from Columbia Business School is described as the start of a successful career as a financial analyst.
But what Chris O'Neill has done since he left his job as head of research at the hedge fund company Noster Capital in 2013 is not mentioned at all by the Royal Family.
Chris O'Neill himself has said in interviews that he has changed tracks and stopped working with private customers, in order to instead work with electronic payment solutions for larger companies.
In 2013, the princess husband started its company Wilton Payments Ltd, which has just this business idea.
The company is registered with both Chris O'Neill and brother-in-law John d'Abo as shareholders. Chris O'Neill owns only 42.5 percent, but is the one who controls the company and represents the company's American operations.
Expressen has previously reported how the business has been at a loss for several years.
The latest submission submitted by Chris O'Neill's company to the British equivalent of the Swedish Companies Registration Office states that Wilton Payments does not need to prepare a complete annual report, due to the fact that it is such a small company.
The figures that still exist show how the company's assets have decreased sharply from 2018 to 2019 - but also the company's liabilities have decreased, by the equivalent of SEK 1.5 million to just over SEK 3.3 million.
A larger loss may be due to investments made that will hopefully bear fruit in the future. But one thing is for sure - Wilton Payments has, according to the latest accounts, not been a source of income for Chris O'Neill.
According to the Royal court, Chris O'Neill has also independently invested in several startup companies. But which companies they are, or in which sectors they are located, is not stated.
Sanningen bakom Chris O'Neills bolag – skulden
Translation

Two questions:

1. Is it confirmed that Chris O'Neill was offered a "princely title"? Madeleine's first fiancé, Jonas Bergström, according to some posters here, was intended to become a duke, but not a prince. Why would Chris be given a higher title?
2. Is Expressen trying to imply something negative by reporting that Wilton Payments is at a loss and not "a source of income" for the O'Neill family? In other words, are they implying that Chris is involved in other "secretive" businesses or that his family is getting private funding from the King to maintain their lavish lifestyle?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Is it confirmed that Chris O'Neill was offered a "princely title"? Madeleine's first fiancée, Jonas Bergström, according to some posters here, was intended to become a duke, but not a prince. Why would Chris be given a higher title?

Yes. Please see the information in this post:

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...-and-changes-2019-a-20051-13.html#post2305095

I wish the press would leave this man alone.

It seems to be a normal thing, at least in Sweden, to report on financial filings linked to public figures.

 

[Heavs]

In theory it makes sense that both Madeleine's fiancés were offered a "princely" title or that it was at least discussed. Madeleine, unlike many other female non crown princesses was able to pass on HRH Prince/ss to her children, so why shouldn't (in theory) she equally be able to have her husband created a prince like her bother's wife is a princess?

Of course that would have come with agreements to become a swedish citizen and perform duties for the SRF and give up all of his business interests which is clearly the last thing Chris ever wanted.

It seems the Jonas will become a Duke idea was never confirmed. Although since it was announced he would continue working then it might have been a way to give Madeleine's husband a title with no HRH, that wasn't contingent on his becoming a working member of the family.

This is entirely speculation though.

I think Chris's potential financial and business dealings are fair game, though publishing details from his private Instagram isn't surprising but is needlessly intrusive.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It seems the Jonas will become a Duke idea was never confirmed. Although since it was announced he would continue working then it might have been a way to give Madeleine's husband a title with no HRH, that wasn't contingent on his becoming a working member of the family.

At the press conference on the occasion of his engagement it was announced that Jonas Bergström would become a duke but not a prince. The press department later clarified that he would also retain his own last name and not become a Bernadotte.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/jonas-blir-var-nye-hertig/

As you pointed out, since it was announced that he would continue working as a lawyer, the decision to deny him the right to share his wife's royal status is consistent with the 2013 press release (see link in post #346) which stated that "a member of the Royal Family should be a Swedish citizen, and should not hold a position of responsibility within business".

The decision to allow him to share the ducal title in spite of not being a prince could potentially be attributed to his being a Swedish citizen (unlike Chris O'Neill) or his engagement being announced (unlike Mr. O'Neill's engagement) before the scandal with the Duke of Palma in Spain, which may have alerted the King to the risks of having a semi-royal duke with private business interests in the royal family. But as you said, that is entirely speculation on my part.

 

[KellyAtLast]

Why doesn’t the press look into Sofia’s business that she started with her family as soon as she married they never report on that and she’s a royal princess with all the perks and privelege via tax payers. Chris has no royal title no royal privelege does not live in tax payer money he is a private man yet they always report on things about his life like he’s on public payroll.

 

[Mumper]

Why doesn’t the press look into Sofia’s business that she started with her family as soon as she married they never report on that and she’s a royal princess with all the perks and privelege via tax payers. Chris has no royal title no royal privelege does not live in tax payer money he is a private man yet they always report on things about his life like he’s on public payroll.

Why do Maddie's children even have the titles of prince or princess when she clearly doesn't meet the standard of raising the children in Sweden?

At least Sofia WORKS, and her children are well-raised and behaved?

 

[Heavs]

Why do Maddie's children even have the titles of prince or princess when she clearly doesn't meet the standard of raising the children in Sweden?

At least Sofia WORKS, and her children are well-raised and behaved?

I believe the King and the Court believe the matter to be settled now they are no longer members of the Royal House with HRH but merely courtesy titles, even though they're still in the line of succession. Something of a compromise I suppose.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Why doesn’t the press look into Sofia’s business that she started with her family as soon as she married they never report on that and she’s a royal princess with all the perks and privelege via tax payers. Chris has no royal title no royal privelege does not live in tax payer money he is a private man yet they always report on things about his life like he’s on public payroll.

Why do Maddie's children even have the titles of prince or princess when she clearly doesn't meet the standard of raising the children in Sweden?

At least Sofia WORKS, and her children are well-raised and behaved?

I do not understand the relevance of what you have written in your response to KellyAtLast's post about the differing degrees of scrutiny of Chris O'Neill and Princess Sofia's respective business interests.

 

[Mumper]

Those children, by rights, should not have the title of prince and princess.

Children don't inherit their titles through the maternal line - or is it different in Sweden?

 

[Mumper]

I do not understand the relevance of what you have written in your response to KellyAtLast's post about the differing degrees of scrutiny of Chris O'Neill and Princess Sofia's respective business interests.

I don't understand the relevance of your response?

 

[Countessmeout]

Those children, by rights, should not have the title of prince and princess.

Children don't inherit their titles through the maternal line - or is it different in Sweden?

Every country has their own guidelines about how a title is transmitted.

If your argument applied to all countries, then Victoria's children would not be prince/princess either. The husbands of a princess are entitled to use their titles (as long as they are Swedish citizens and don't work in private business like Chris Oneil) and their children are prince/ss. Until the change last year, they were also HRH. Unlike the UK who introduced equal inheritance to the throne but not to other titles, Sweden fully practices equality in royal titles.

You see the same in Belgium where Astrid's children are Prince/ss of Belgium and her husband is titled Prince Lorenz of Belgium. In Spain the husband of Infantas (at least with Elena and Cristina's) have been allowed to use their Ducal titles. And their children are Their excellency Don/Donna, through their mother. Then again Spain adopted equal inheritance for titles of nobility in contrast to the UK.

You will find it in non European monarchies as well. In Thailand Princess Chulaborn's daughters are Princesses (her nieces are not as her sister gave up her place in succession on marriage). In Bhutan the grandchildren are dasho/ashi (either male or female line).

With the introduction of equal inheritance, we will have to see how other kingdoms handle the children of daughters who aren't the heir.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Every country has their own guidelines about how a title is transmitted. [...] You will find it in non European monarchies as well. [...]

Well said.

In Spain the husband of Infantas (at least with Elena and Cristina's) have been allowed to use their Ducal titles. And their children are Their excellency Don/Donna, through their mother. Then again Spain adopted equal inheritance for titles of nobility in contrast to the UK.

The husbands of Spanish duchesses, marchionesses, and so on always were allowed to use the titles of their wives, centuries before the adoption of equal inheritance.

For royal titles, Spain is probably not the best example to cite as the practice for equal husbands and children of Infantas has actually been downgraded from Infante or Infanta to "only" Duke for husbands or titleless Excellencies for children.



Regarding the discussion of "rights" in Sweden, it is nobody's right to be a prince or princess. Alexander and Gabriel are princes by the will of their grandfather, not because they are princes by rights as children in paternal line.

 

[LadyFinn]

New photos from the family in latest issue of Svensk Damtidning:
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EDIT And now this morning, Svensk Damtidning posted the photos to its website "First photo of Chris in 408 days"
Chris O'Neill – nya bilder visar förändringen _ Svensk Dam

 

[LadyFinn]

Princess Madeleine's mixed breed puppy ended up in the middle of this spring's royal dog war. Then no one could say how Teddy Bernadotte would become as an adult. But now he is eight months old - and the new pictures from Miami give a clear picture:
- To me, it looks like a typical labradoodle, says Hans Rosenberg at the Swedish Kennel Club.
- If I saw the princess' dog on the street, I would spontaneously say that it is a mixed breed where poodle and labrador have been used.
Bilderna avslöjar_ Sanningen om Madeleines hund _ Svensk Dam

As a result of the corona pandemic, Princess Madeleine has been allowed to stay at home in the luxury house in Florida for a large part of the year.
But now the restrictions seem to have eased for the family of three.
At the same time as life is slowly returning to normal, Princess Madeleine feels doubtful whether it was right to move to Florida or not, writes Svensk Damtidning.
Prinsessan Madeleines tvivel efter flytten till Florida

 

[LadyFinn]

A new book "Controversy: Sex, Lies and Dirty Money By The World's Powerful Elite" by Ian Halperin claims that Jeffrey Epstein was "obsessed" with Princess Madeleine. However, the court does not want to comment on the information.
Jeffrey Epstein besatt av prinsessan Madeleine _ Svensk Dam

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

Epstein had one thing right. Pss Madeleine is a beautiful young women. If one can believe everything on the dustcover of this book and I don't, his reach into the BRF was vast. Maybe wishful thinking of some ones little gray matter.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Epstein had one thing right. Pss Madeleine is a beautiful young women. If one can believe everything on the dustcover of this book and I don't, his reach into the BRF was vast. Maybe wishful thinking of some ones little gray matter.

Epstein was a sex offender. I would be worried about him fantasising over Madeleine and certainly wouldn't say he was right - Madeleine is beautiful indeed but I don't want to hear that from Epstein's mouth.