William, Harry, their Girlfriends and the Press

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Vanishing Lady

I'm not singling you out, Beatrixfan, but your post reminded me of a question that has been floating around my brain, looking for an outlet.

Has it occured to anyone that maybe the reason he's drinking more now is because of the inquest?

I get the feeling that he's taking refuge in alcohol because it's starting for him all over again, ten years later -- especially with him being so close to his mother. He's acting out, but it took years for him to really start. I can't speak for Kate's behavior, but we have 2 people who may or may not be up to snuff in the maturity department dealing with a terrible event (especially for him) in the only way they may know how.

It's a valid point. I think there is probably some truth here even if it's not the complete story. Mostly, I think his partying is exagerated in the press and we never see him doing his army duties or exercising because it's not as entertaining for the tabloid front pages.

I know, why doesn't he just get some sort of psychological help? Considering what he watched his mother go through, I'd say he's pretty cynical about psychiatry, not to mention it's not something really encouraged in royal circles.

And lest anyone gets the idea that I'm just making excuses for William's behavior, I'm not. I'm just trying to get to the heart of things.

I am not sure you are accurate about his cynicism about psychology or psychiatry. I don't know how you come to this idea. Will you elaborate by explaining how you came to this assessment? I'm curious to know because I never had this impression about him. He was raised by a father who is very much one to encourage healthy lifestyles, from the most healthy diets to alternative remedies, and even Eastern therapies and ideas. I think William's father is an extraordinarily open-minded person, but do you suppose William is cynical about these kinds of things?

[Vanishing Lady]

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio

I am not sure you are accurate about his cynicism about psychology or psychiatry. I don't know how you come to this idea. Will you elaborate by explaining how you came to this assessment? I'm curious to know because I never had this impression about him. He was raised by a father who is very much one to encourage healthy lifestyles, from the most healthy diets to alternative remedies, and even Eastern therapies and ideas. I think William's father is an extraordinarily open-minded person, but do you suppose William is cynical about these kinds of things?

Sure. I'll try to expand. I wasn't saying that the royals and especially the Prince and Princess of Wales don't/didn't encourage healthy lifestyles, but that some more traditional types may frown upon the trappings of psychological treatment.

I was thinking more of the people who surround William in his capacity as a member of the royal family, that they may look upon his getting a psychiatrist or psychological help. I know the "stiff upper lip" attitude in Britain has changed to an extent, but I think that there might be some traditionalists who may frown upon that sort of thing. I didn't mention how the PoW would feel about his son going to a therapist or psychiatrist, because I took it as a given (and that it was general knowledge here) that he wouldn't have a problem with it. However, the more senior members (The Queen, Duke of Edinburgh, etc) might have something to say about it. Yes, I know William is an adult, and he's Charles' son, but we know how much influence Charles' parents can wield in family situations.

I think William observed the seeming parade of psychiatrists, therapists (official and unofficial), psychics, and other mind-body practitioners for his mother as a child and adolescent and saw that fundamentally they didn't seem to help her. Some of the responsibility can be placed with Diana (you can't get better unless you really want to and put forth some effort), but in William's subjective eyes they didn't help and could have possibly taken advantage of her vulnerability to get what they want or be able to brag that they were treating the Princess of Wales. He could be cynical about that, or just extremely wary. Or he isn't ready to deal with his emotions yet.

He could also be in denial...telling himself that the reason he is acting out or behaving like a wide boy is something unrelated to the inquest.

All conjecture, of course, but that's what I was getting at.

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by Odrade

<snip> I just wish we would hear more about what she does when she is away from Wills <snip>

Odrade, I'm not singling you out in any way, but the sentiments expressed (you aren't alone in the wish from what I've seen around the internet) are just the kind that feeds the intrusive over-coverage of this couple. The jounalists and photographers know that there is a desire by many of the public to see and know more and more and more. What's worse, imo, is that in their view the products that they put out are in some perverse way things that the public is "entitled" to know or see. Yes, the Royal Family are public figures. Yes, public figures will be and should be covered by the media. But I find it disturbing and uncomfortable that these people are expected to suspend all right to privacy or choice whenever they're outside the walls of home in their disposable time. It's a cop out for the media or others to say "they're asking for it" whenever they go out whether to a club or just walking down the street, as if that gives the right to hound, hassle, blind with flash, and pursue.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by selrahc4

But I find it disturbing and uncomfortable that these people are expected to suspend all right to privacy or choice whenever they're outside the walls of home in their disposable time. It's a cop out for the media or others to say "they're asking for it" whenever they go out whether to a club or just walking down the street, as if that gives the right to hound, hassle, blind with flash, and pursue.

This is precisely what I have been trying to express, but this is better than I have done along the same idea. There is never a "right to know" about how the royal family idle away their free time. There is a right to know of things like how the Civil List money is spent, and things like that, but as far as whether or not a royal goes to a nightclub or stays at home with a book, , I believe strongly that it is their right to ask of the media to give them breathing space: i.e. please don't chase them in their car or chase them down the street, as these things are just rude! Take pictures of them leaving the club, fine, but let them go home in peace and not have to be frightened. It's not too much to ask, is it? I don't think so.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Indeed they should. The trouble is, as Charles and then Diana both found, that if you're doing both serious and frivolous things the press will ignore the serious ones in favour of concentrating on the latter, and then it makes it look as though the serious stuff hasn't happened. But I assume this is why the royals have press offices.

True, Elspeth, but not sure about the serious things in William's and Kate's case, are there any? And it's them who deliberately draw attention on the frivolous things with their behaviour. You simply can't spend your eve partying at London's celebrity spot No 1 and ask for privacy.

[ysbel]

William may be following in his father's footsteps in how he treats the press because he's seen firsthand how his mother's way of treating the press ended up for her.

Whatever anyone may say about Charles poor mismanagement of the press, he still is alive to enjoy his new wife, his friends and his children. The same cannot be said for Diana. Regardless of how many hearts Diana was Queen of, she's not really alive now to enjoy it so I think the path she chose with the press cost her sons their mother.

I would take a slightly shattered reputation with the press that Charles has any day over Diana's predicament.

[BeatrixFan]

At the end of the day, if you're famous you expect pictures. If you can't handle it, get out of the limelight.

[zembla]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

At the end of the day, if you're famous you expect pictures. If you can't handle it, get out of the limelight.

True...or at least stay away from places that bring even more attention...unless you love it like Britney Spears.

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

At the end of the day, if you're famous you expect pictures. If you can't handle it, get out of the limelight.

I don't think he ever indicated he can't handle it. If anything, I think he has handled it rather well considering everything. What is wrong is asking the press to abide by the PCC codes? That's fair. Play by the rules. I think it's good that he tries to get the press to do things more on his terms. He wants to set the terms for his own publicity. What is wrong with that? It's not censorship to protect yourself, to protect your private life.

[BeatrixFan]

Surely by complaining, he's admitted that he can't handle the self-induced media scrum? The point is, he can't set terms for his own publicity when he wants it to be that the press only put out good publicity. Whilst I think the press need a proper updated Code of Conduct, the people being photographed have to realise that they won't have good headlines if they're acting the goat and that they don't get to censor the media to make them look good. Protection is one thing but when you put yourself in a situation that you know is unsafe, frankly you deserve everything you get. It's like people who stick their heads in the mouths of lions - if they're heads are bitten off then we can all have a good laugh, say "What a silly beggar" and they'll go down in history as a very daft person indeed for putting themselves in situations that brought injury. If you go to the Ivy, Boujis, wherever, then you know that a) it's a place where the press take the majority of their pap shots and b) if you go there, you will be photographed.

[CasiraghiTrio]

BeatrixFan, I love talking to you. You always provide a stimulating, thoughtful conversation. I almost completely agree with you here.

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Surely by complaining, he's admitted that he can't handle the self-induced media scrum?

Nevertheless, this sentence bothers me. I maintain that the problem is not William's inability to handle anything. He, perhaps like everyone in the world (maybe excepting people with certain mental or physical disabilities, though I'm not sure) has the ability and brains to handle what life serves him. It seems to me that his problem is in his methods rather than his abilities.

The point is, he can't set terms for his own publicity when he wants it to be that the press only put out good publicity. Whilst I think the press need a proper updated Code of Conduct, the people being photographed have to realise that they won't have good headlines if they're acting the goat and that they don't get to censor the media to make them look good. Protection is one thing but when you put yourself in a situation that you know is unsafe, frankly you deserve everything you get. It's like people who stick their heads in the mouths of lions - if they're heads are bitten off then we can all have a good laugh, say "What a silly beggar" and they'll go down in history as a very daft person indeed for putting themselves in situations that brought injury. If you go to the Ivy, Boujis, wherever, then you know that a) it's a place where the press take the majority of their pap shots and b) if you go there, you will be photographed.

A second point: Prince William is quite rarely photographed leaving these clubs lately, if you stop to think about it. When was the last time before last week? It has been many months! Until last week, for a considerable amount of time, he managed to keep himself out of the public focus. So what changed? The simple answer is that he went to a club with Kate Middleton. But why? And why then, in the week of the Inquest? It brings us back to a point made earlier, perhaps by Duke of Marmalade, though I don't remember. He knew he and Kate would be photographed leaving the club. The next day, his spokesperson reprimands the editors for buying photos of them leaving, taken, so said Paddy Harversen said, in conditions which made HRH feel threatened. In short, his methods and his timing make me wonder. I don't know what to think about it.

[Elspeth]

Part of the problem is the same as what we were seeing with Kate Middleton before they broke up. We'd see photographs of her shopping maybe two or three times a week, and people would start "doesn't she do anything other than go shopping?" Well, given that the shopping trips in question maybe took six hours out of her week, it's a fairly safe bet that she had time to do a lot of other stuff. It's just that we didn't get to hear about it in the tabloids and glossy magazines either because it was too boring for them to want to bother reporting or because they were trying to give the impression of spendthrift drifter in order to stir up people's emotions and get them buying more papers to read about this terrible person.

[zembla]

The thing is though they have done nothing to earn the fame or really want it, like a movie star or singer who is pursued. So I can see the love and hate...it's such an odd position like with celebrity offspring...they don't ask for it but from birth it's there to deal with...

Kate is in a different position...she knew the stakes...I think it's different for her. And I believe she likes it and has her eye on the prize...so many girls would've crumbled by now. I give her props...

Sometimes I think taking the celebrity approach like Diana and being so cooperative with the press is a great idea...but once you open that door, there's no going back. So... I think we'll get a clearer idea in a few years of which way they'll go as couple. Though I have a feeling Kate will choose to be an open book...

[Luv2Cruise]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

At the end of the day, if you're famous you expect pictures. If you can't handle it, get out of the limelight.

His issue in this case is not the pictures. It is the chasing of his automobile that is the problem. I guess I can understand that given his mother was killed while fleeing these vultures.

He has every right to complain when the press violates its very own code. If that is a problem, then become a "republican."

[BeatrixFan]

But, and I shall be controversial for once, isn't William playing into the vulture's claws just as his mother did?

[Luv2Cruise]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

But, and I shall be controversial for once, isn't William playing into the vulture's claws just as his mother did?

No he is not. Because those same vultures will chase him down coming from a polo match.

Is Kate playing into the vulture's hands by stepping outside of her front door to go to work on her birthday????

[BeatrixFan]

No and as I said when that happened, I found that as distasteful as the next person. That is a case of harassment, that is obscene and that is a gross action by a gutter press. However, she has to live in her house - William doesn't have to booze it at a celeb bar.

[Luv2Cruise]

Does he not have to go from point A to point B? Because surely you don't think that the only place he is hounded is coming from out of a club??? Surely you don't think that if he succeeds in getting the paparrazzi to back off from outside of a club, that the vultures won't set up shop somewhere else?

This sounds a bit punitive because he dares enjoy himself at clubs more than some approve???

Being chased down the road in her car, as Kate Middleton has been, and being chased down the road on their way home from a club, is harrassment. And it is also proscribed behavior according to the PCC's code. Prince William and Kate Middleton have every right to pursue action against the press for this disgusting behavior and they should continue to do so every time the paparrazzi step across the line.

[Kat]

hmm I can't help but think that perhaps what would help to dampen the paparazzi's zeal to follow celebrities such as Prince William and Kate, is perhaps something like a kind of censorship on the media whereby all photographs taken of celebrities during a chase of said celebrities are banned from being published in any medium that brings money into people's pockets.

See, the thing is the papparazzi are going to do what ever it takes to get photographs / video that editors want for their media coverage because that is how they (the papparazzi) make their money. The editors want the photographs and video because that's what will make their newspapers, etc. sell, hence they earn money.

If they are banned from using such photographs / video, then if they break that ban, they'll have to pay somehow (in court) and if they find that every day or every other day they're being sued for their coverage of the said celebrities (theoretically, if this happened, and they cover Will & Kate five out of seven days a week, that could lead to five court cases against them in the space of a week), they'll get over themselves very quickly. It just wouldn't make financial sense to do it.

[Luv2Cruise]

Sadly, they can absorb the cost of fines as a business expense. Happens all the time in other industry. Some of those photos are worth that much money.