The Royal Household, Courtiers, Advisers and Attendants 1: Ending Sep 2022

[Saragli]

They usually are their friends. It used to be that Ladys in Waiting were the only women that could be your friends but now its the other way and most royals choose freinds as Lady in Waitings.

 

[Harry's polo shirt]

so they are like lifelong bridesmaids?

 

[branchg]

The Mistress of the Robes, who is in charge of all the ladies in waiting to The Queen or Queen Consort, is always a Duchess. The Duchess of Grafton has been Mistress of the Robes to The Queen since 1967.

 

[Harry's polo shirt]

was she a duchess first or after she was chosen as a Lady in Waiting. Because what if William marries a girl who doesn't know any duchesses or regel women...can they choose anyone they want or do they have to choose from a list of duchesses?

 

[kelly9480]

I have read somewhere that the Queen's L-I-W serve a six month rota.

Lady Susan Hussey is practically always with EIIR, though. Some of the Queen's appear to travel mainly on foreign trips, but Lady Susan and her husband live in London just so they can be close to BP.

 

[kelly9480]

was she a duchess first or after she was chosen as a Lady in Waiting. Because what if William marries a girl who doesn't know any duchesses or regel women...can they choose anyone they want or do they have to choose from a list of duchesses?

The Duchess of Grafton is Mistress of the Robes, which is a higher level of lady in waiting. To be appointed as MoR, she had to have been a duchess already. There's nothing regal about the Mistress of the Robes -- she's married to a noble, but that doesn't make her regal (that's usually reserved for royals only). Just moving in the circles the Windsors move in will mean that William's wife will get to know and befriend duchesses. The Mistress of the Robes has to be a duchess, and by the time William is king, whoever his wife is will have had plenty of time to befriend at least one.

 

[Harry's polo shirt]

yeah I suppose so. I just think the girl may be put off, by all of the duchess throwing themselves at her.

 

[kelly9480]

They usually are their friends. It used to be that Ladys in Waiting were the only women that could be your friends but now its the other way and most royals choose freinds as Lady in Waitings.

Diana's main LiW, Carolyn Beckwith-Smith, was selected for her, and wasn't a friend at all in the beginning. She was selected because she was expected to guide Diana in her early days as Princess of Wales. Sarah's was a friend, who died of cancer a while ago. Sophie's seems to be a friend. Margaret selected one (the Countess Alexander of Tunis) because she was young, unmarried, and could travel with her.

 

[james]

Princess Michael's L-I-W is Lady Emma Kitchener-Fellowes daughter of the 3rd Earl Kitchener and great great neice of the 1st Earl, he of the famous "Your Country Needs You" posters in Britain during World War One. Her Grandfather, the 2nd Earl, was Page of Honour to George VI at his Coranation in 1937. She is married to Julian Fellowes the actor, author and Oscar winning screenwriter of the film "Gossford Park". In addition to Gosford Park, Fellowes wrote the screenplay for Vanity Fair and the script for the new London musical "Mary Poppins." One of his acting roles was as the Minister for Defence in the Bond film "Tomorrow Never Dies".

Below is a picture of Emma standing behind Princess Michael at a function and one of her and her husband the night he won his Oscar.

http://pro.corbis.com/images/0000313048-003.jpg?size=67&uid={cb5ba066-99f0-4381-bc3c-8626dce75668}

http://pro.corbis.com/images/DWF15-219606.jpg?size=67&uid={9b85ec70-57f4-4773-9a44-b160c63e84aa}

P.S. In the picture with Princess Michael Emma is wearing an order of some sort which I have also noticed other ladies-in-waiting wearing, primarily at evening functions. It seems to resemble the Royal Family Order and comprises of a pale blue silk ribbon and a diamond crest of some sort. I would love to know more about it if anyone has some info.

 

[kelly9480]

Emma's not the daughter of Lord Kitchener. She's the great-great niece of the 1st Earl.

"The additional surname Kitchener was adopted by Julian when he married Emma Joy Kitchener, only child of the late Hon. Charles Kitchener, great niece of Earl Kitchener of Khartoum and the last of the Kitchener line. Just under a century earlier, Julian's great-uncle, Lord Sydenham of Coombe, was Governor of Bombay and a strong supporter of Kitchener against the then Viceroy, Lord Curzon, but that's another story..."

 

[james]

I got some of the info. from Answers.com which states,
In 1990 he (Julian) married Lady Emma Kitchener, who is lady-in-waiting to Princess Michael of Kent, and daugther of the 3rd Earl Kitchener.

 

[kelly9480]

Answers.com relies on Wikipedia, which is not a credible source because anyone can update it, regardless of their knowledge of the subject. Burke's Peerage is basically the Bible of the British aristocracy, and can basically be trusted (the families themselves are responsible for maintaining their genealogical information). If Burke's says she's not the daughter, go with that, because that comes directly from the Kitchener family.

 

[ysbel]

I may be dating myself but I remember reading an article about Princess Anne in 1972 before she married and it mentioned an appointment for one of her Ladies-in-Waiting had been put on hold because of budgetary concnerns. The salary was a little over 100,000 pounds a year and the Royal Family didn't want to spend that amount of money in that year period.

 

[Skydragon]

I may be dating myself but I remember reading an article about Princess Anne in 1972 before she married and it mentioned an appointment for one of her Ladies-in-Waiting had been put on hold because of budgetary concerns. The salary was a little over 100,000 pounds a year and the Royal Family didn't want to spend that amount of money in that year period.

Thats a lot of money for 1972!

 

[Skydragon]

Other members of the household: lord great chamberlain, earl marshal, lord steward, master of the horse (unpaid, ceremonial posts) ladies-in-waiting, including mistress of the robes, two ladies of the bedchamber (titled), five women of the bedchamber (untitled) and an equerry. The ladies-in-waiting, appointed personally by the queen, accompany her on public engagements on a rota basis (they're the ones carrying the flowers and cards handed over by members of the crowd during walkabouts). They also write the replies to letters sent to the queen. They receive no pay but expenses.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0,,407426,00.html

 

[Smartie2091]

wow the women don't get paid? I guess to be a lady in waiting you have to be quit wealthy? So how do they choose the lady in waiting? are they sometimes friends of the royal women? or are they simpy picked from the most noble family?
like what are the requirments?

 

[JOY!]

Thanx for the info everyone.
Are there any young duchesses? I mean I would assume you'd want someone around your age to be your lady in waiting. It's nice that some are able to have other jobs as well. What if a new royal bride (say Prince william's) doesn't really have anyone she'd want to be her lady in waiting, then will someone pick one for her?

 

[Skydragon]

Thanx for the info everyone.
Are there any young duchesses? I mean I would assume you'd want someone around your age to be your lady in waiting. It's nice that some are able to have other jobs as well. What if a new royal bride (say Prince william's) doesn't really have anyone she'd want to be her lady in waiting, then will someone pick one for her?

If a new royal bride doesn't know anyone suitable, someone will be found for her and then it's cross your fingers that they will get on. If they don't, I'm sure they would be able to chop and change.

 

[ysbel]

Thats a lot of money for 1972!

Well they could have made a mistake and it was another position but I was wondering if the ladies in waiting have always been unpaid or whether its a recent development due to sizing down the monarchy.

 

[ysbel]

was she a duchess first or after she was chosen as a Lady in Waiting. Because what if William marries a girl who doesn't know any duchesses or regel women...can they choose anyone they want or do they have to choose from a list of duchesses?

Only the Queen has a Mistress of the Robes so by the time William becomes King, his wife will be old enough to have a duchess her age attend to her as Mistress of the Robes.

The Ladies-in-Waiting don't have to be duchesses.

 

[Skydragon]

wow the women don't get paid? I guess to be a lady in waiting you have to be quit wealthy? So how do they choose the lady in waiting? are they sometimes friends of the royal women? or are they simpy picked from the most noble family?
like what are the requirments?

From what I can find out, they all seem to be friends or daughters of friends of the royal ladies. Don't forget they all mix within the same circles. Isn't Tiggys' mother a Lady in Waiting to Princess Anne?

 

[kelly9480]

Tiggy's aunt, I believe, Victoria (or some V-name) LB, is one of Anne's ladies in waiting.

 

[james]

It is Tiggy's mother, Shan, who was Anne's L-I-W and Tiggy's sister's name is Zara. Some have said this is where Anne first heard of the name and liked it enough to give it to her daughter.There are many theories regarding where Anne got the name but I've always thought that this one seemed the most likely as it's such an unusual name that it seems more than a coincidence that Anne and her L-I-W should have daughters with that name.

 

[kelly9480]

Anne herself said that Charles came up with the name Zara because he liked the meaning.

 

[james]

Charles may have remarked that he liked it but she must have been equally familiar with it as being the name of her L-I-W's daughter.

 

[kelly9480]

Charles has been credited -- by Anne -- as being solely responsible for the name. She has said (and this makes little sense to me) that Zara was a surprise, and the meaning of the name (bright as dawn) was suggested by Charles because, in her eyes, it fit. According to Anne, they had no clue what to call her, and Charles put forward Zara. Of course she was familiar with the name, but, according to her, it had nothing to do with naming her child that.

Anne has two LB's as l-i-w. Miss Victoria, Tiggy's aunt, and the Hon Mrs LB, Tiggy's mum.

 

[james]

It's really not a big deal. I'm only pointing out that apart from the Zaras Legge-Burke and Phillips I am unaware of many (if any) other people with that name and am merley suggesting that even if Charles did suggest it that the Princess would still have been aware of it's existence as a name from the Legge-Burkes and thus her brother's suggestion would not have been as original as it's sometimes made out to be.

 

[kelly9480]

I agree that Anne wouldn't have been unfamiliar with the name. I think the name is usually considered unusual because this is the BRF and the public expected something like Mary, Victoria, Elizabeth, etc -- those kinds of traditional names usually associated with the Windsors (even though Anne seems to have been determined that her kids would be raised as Phillipses, not Windsors). Zara's name fits her personality perfectly though, so Anne and Charles did well on naming her.

 

[SweetHomeNC]

The Royal Household

What are the positions in the Royal Household, both the ceremonial and non-ceremonial ones?

 

[BeatrixFan]

Ooh, now that's a real can of worms. There are so many branches and divisions within the Royal Household. Could you maybe specify a little? For example, the Master of the Household's department? Or are you just interested in the top jobs at the Palace?